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What happened to these and why do they not seem popular? The only thing I've found about them is the shitshow on here about 10 years ago.
I saw a bike at the Alligator Hare Scramble that my club puts on with the rear socked down deep. Made for an easier time of the rider jumping on and also getting the holeshot. Granted the guy was the fastest in the field anyway but my knees suck and I'd like any advantage I could get when doing our LeMans start.
I'm in no way affiliated with any company, just looking for anything to help jump on my bike.
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the whole point behind a holeshot device is to bring the front end down to keep the bike from wheeling when you get on the power. Seems like if you bring the bottom down as well you are counteracting what you are trying to achieve.
Look at drag bikes, they aren’t high in the rear and low in the front, they are low front and rear.
the rear suspension squatting 8 inches under power isn’t good for going forward.
You talking about THESE drag bikes? You see that 7ft long wheelie bar out the back, yeah...it stops the bike from looping out. We aren't going to be putting wheelie bars on dirtbikes Bud.
Ok then why don’t you explain why rear holeshot devices exist and why isn’t that drag bike 2 inches off the ground in the front and 40 inches in the rear if that was the proper solution that you’re arguing for…bud, pal, friend.
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I have one on my 125. Haven’t engaged it in years, but it definitely helps. It’s all about lengthening the wheel base and getting rid of the “squat” that the rear shock has when you get on the gas. It’s all traction.
Stark - "There's a skill app for that". Just sit on the bike and it will do all the work for you.
(I am against "assist" devices of any kind)
I was thinking that the rear devices helped by having the shock in the stiffer part of the travel making it feel more consistent and not transfer as much weight as the bike squats , or waste energy with making it squat. And giving the rider a better feel for if the front wheel is coming up or if the bike is squatting. Also a lot of guys are not able to touch and have their knees bent like I do. And I think it also helps with balance having the bike lower.
Go out and try a sprint on a ridged frame MTB and a full suspension frame. The suspension not only soaks up bumps, it will also soak up a lot of your pedal power too.
That little bit of power that makes the suspension squat , is free power you harness with a rear starting device.
I could be wrong on all or some of these. And maybe there are more reasons to use them too.
I know that Tammer still makes and sells rear starting devices as well as the fronts.
Literally the #1 item i install on any bike i intend to race. The Tamer set up was a complete game changer for me and ive always been a pretty good starter, but these high hp 450s created things to overcome.
The idea is this.. in a normal front only set up, your rear is high. Soon as you dump the clutch, theres a little bit of a squat then go type of thing that happens.. with the front and rear, theres no squat. Immediate forward propulsion. 0 wheelie. I can damn near hold it wide and dump the clutch with no wheel. Rear wheel connectivity is better for me too. I literally wont ever race without one unless i dont care to get a good start.
I love tamers double button too.. top button when theres no super tavky traction. Bottom button when tractions good and i can letr eat.
Anyone with a 19-23 kawi, i have a full set up for sale in the classifieds. Only selling because its not interchangeable with my yamaha, and the kawi is gone. Perfect way to try one for substantially less than retail.
Seen a MotoGP bike lately?
I’ve had their setup for 8 years now on one of my bikes. Solid products and an even better company to work with.
Besides graphics, seat cover (which I make myself) and suspension, thats the first mod I make. Tamer front and rear, especially if you have the mesh.
Rear holeshot devices are used in MOTOGP not drag bikes. My picture literally show what you are asking in terms of a drag bike. Front end is lifted 2-3" while the wheelie bar is stopping the front end from lifting any higher. No idea wtf you're talking about 40" in the rear.. And in the MOTOGP bikes they have more sophisticated traction control and timing maps for their holeshot as they have nearly 100% traction.
I'm looking for an assist getting on the bike more than anything. as of now I use a stool to step onto my bike. A holeshot assist is of limited value in a LeMans start because technique and perfect throttle control go out the window when you have to run to your bike, jump on, start it and go all at once. There are no textbook holeshots.
Looking into the Tamer it looks like it's just for the SXF and I'm on a 350 XCF.
I watched Anderson practicing starts yesterday on a grate. I noticed he makes the rear squat by engaging his front break and the clutch out slightly while keeping the revs high. This is basically what a rear holeshot device would do. Not quite as easy on a dirt or concrete start as the front wheel would start to slip forward under the load.
Is the linkage or swingarm different on an XCF ? I looked and Ride engineering shows their linkages as fitting both XC and SX for the models they make linkages for.
If the swingarm and linkage is the same, wouldn't it fit?
I've done a couple riding classes the past few years and anytime they have us working on starts its always been clutch grabbing slightly which squats the rear a little and the front brake holding you in place. Feels odd at first, especially if you've always just held the clutch all the way in until the gate drops.
You would have to assume it would fit if they were the same. I'll give them a call or send an email.
Pit Row
My primary goal is to lower the bike at the starting line to ease jumping on to it. Our races start with rider off the dead bike 5 yards in front of it. You can see the edge of my stool at the end of the arrow that I use in the picture below.
A customer of mine is a rep/reseller for them in the North East. I sent him a message asking him about the fitment . I'll let you know what he says.
He has all the pieces to put each part number together and a sheet that shows fitment and what parts to use to build each device. He goes to races all around New England selling, installing and providing any warranty or service work .
Tammer sounds like a really good company from everything he has told me and showed me. I'm sure that if You call them up they could help You out. And I'll let you know what my customer says when I hear back from him. I'm not sure if he posts on here or not. I told him there was a thread on here with somebody asking about it so he may show up on here.
Wow, I appreciate the help. Thanks.
Do yourself a favor and call Kevin at Tamer. Dudes been great to work with. Or email him at kevin@tamermx.com.
It would work great for the type of starts mentioned above too. Makes my bike feel like an 80 when its locked down..
Most teams figured out it was easier to leave the rear unlocked & manipulate forward bite through ECU tuning rather than having to deal with the unpredictably of the rear starting device releasing & allowing the shock to decompress at an inopportune time.
The technology works better on road race bikes since the traction levels are super high & the race surface is flat. It doesn't have near the same impact to performance on dirt.
He said as long as its not a PDS style bike , if it has linkage they will work. His name is Jeremy Flori ( Factory Flori Racing). He is at a local track ( 508 International) right now working so he's probably busy . I think he only handles local stuff , but he has an Instagram and Facebook for his business if You wanted to message him. Or just to check out some of the bikes he has built. I do his graphics for his personal bikes and a lot of his projects.
I would give Tammer a call and tell them the year and model You have as long as its a linkage model. And they can set You up with one. He will not know me, But he Jeremy knows him pretty well. Jeremy was a customer of Tammer's long before he started to sell them. He bought a couple of nice RMZ's from him at one point.
Unless Your going to be in New England sometime soon and You could buy it from him and he installs them for you right there at the track. He is selling tires and race gas trackside along with other stuff .
Was lucky enough to run the BB4 version when I was riding one of their bikes: that shit works.
Pulled 2 hole shots at Hangtown that were just…insane.
In a perfect world your start gate doesn't have a rut and the dirt is the same height as the gate, there is no rut, or acceleration bumps after the gate either. However, that world doesn't exist. Starts are about traction and maintaining grip, with the shock compressed, there is no small bump absorption and the shock can't do what it's designed to do, which is maintain contact with the ground. On the 450's especially, tuning suspension is mostly about maintaining that traction and grip on exit of turns, or in this case, the start. Too stiff you're spinning, and too soft you're losing drive to the wheel because the shock took half of it. Finding that sweet spot on race day as it gets rougher/dryer/slippery etc is a hefty challenge
Meh... Sounds like a down play on the idea.. Have you used one? I feel like my bike handles those bumps/chop right after the gate better than without. Traction has been a strong suit for me after using these things.
Donkster, the one I used on the KTM released as soon as you got across the gate…pretty much as soon as you “launched”. I know they’d spent quite a bit of time nailing this down back when Blake was racing and this is during the time he was getting some pretty epic starts.
When using the rear, I recall Blake’s front was pretty damn low, too.
Ahhh that would be ideal. I remember testing them with Bobby K one year and that's what we ran into
I haven't tried one personally. I've only tested them with riders I've worked for during SX. Never tried on outdoor stuff though
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