In Vital's eyes, is the KTM a bad bike now?

bvm111
Posts
10126
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
3/18/2024 8:12am

I still wouldn’t ride anything other than a KTM … so not in my eyes at all. 

3
1
sam hain
Posts
1178
Joined
11/8/2011
Location
USA
3/18/2024 8:59am
Spoonguy wrote:
For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike...

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a completely different rider. His problem was lack of experience. 

8
Spoonguy
Posts
3567
Joined
2/28/2022
Location
Mc Kean, PA, USA
3/18/2024 9:18am
Spoonguy wrote:
For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike...

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

ILoveMoto wrote:
"Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well" Are we talking about the same two-time 450cc AMA Supercross Champion while riding a...

"Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well"

Are we talking about the same two-time 450cc AMA Supercross Champion while riding a KTM Cooper Webb?

To be clear, you are stating Webb was happy with the KTM team his final year with them? You are stating Webb  never said anything unhappy or dissatisfied about his riding for KTM? You are stating that it has never been written or quoted Webb had struggles with that team? Just to be clear.

Spoonguy
Posts
3567
Joined
2/28/2022
Location
Mc Kean, PA, USA
3/18/2024 9:22am
Spoonguy wrote:
For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike...

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

sam hain wrote:
Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a...

Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a completely different rider. His problem was lack of experience. 

Last year, Vialle entered the USA outdoor nationals as a two time World Champ and won one race.

7

The Shop

Falcon
Posts
12453
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
3/18/2024 9:37am

KTM hasn't developed or updated the SXF450 in at least three months. Clearly, they don't care about motocross anymore. It 's a dinosaur and they're going out of business.

12
MxAddic
Posts
5308
Joined
11/24/2022
Location
USA
3/18/2024 9:47am
soggy wrote:

Sexton post race interview with vital was pretty down on the bike. He almost sounds regretful that he made a switch. 

If you remove Jett from the equation he seems about where he was last year. I am not saying I know whats going on in the guys head but you seem to think so.

3
3/18/2024 9:49am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2024 9:52am

The bike is great, especially in the shootouts. But I believe there is still lingering issues with the Team/Management. But it finally appears they are doing "whatever it takes" to make their riders happy seeing those KYB inserts in Chase's bike. Look at Vialle and Prado in MXGP right now. And remove Jett from the equation and Chase is doing good and he's not tucking the front which is a huge plus...

You can't argue it's one of the most advanced motocross bikes on the circuit right now...

2
reynardfan1
Posts
825
Joined
7/28/2014
Location
Gretna, NE, USA
3/18/2024 9:51am

people thinking we common folk ride/buy a bike that is anything like what the factory guys are 'complaining' about is even more hilarious...ktm off the shelf competes with any other brand...just go buy the color you like and have fun...simple...

7
ILoveMoto
Posts
3598
Joined
3/15/2022
Location
Jacksonville, FL, USA
Fantasy
3/18/2024 9:54am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2024 9:59am
Spoonguy wrote:
For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike...

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

sam hain wrote:
Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a...

Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a completely different rider. His problem was lack of experience. 

Spoonguy wrote:

Last year, Vialle entered the USA outdoor nationals as a two time World Champ and won one race.

After switching over from his works-spec KTM to his US-spec KTM he ran 11 races on tracks foreign to him.... top 5 in 7 of those including the win. (6,6,37,41 in the other 4 races).

Take off the hater glasses dude it's bad for your complexion...

9
1
ILoveMoto
Posts
3598
Joined
3/15/2022
Location
Jacksonville, FL, USA
Fantasy
3/18/2024 10:03am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2024 10:16am
people thinking we common folk ride/buy a bike that is anything like what the factory guys are 'complaining' about is even more hilarious...ktm off the shelf...

people thinking we common folk ride/buy a bike that is anything like what the factory guys are 'complaining' about is even more hilarious...ktm off the shelf competes with any other brand...just go buy the color you like and have fun...simple...

You can lead them to water but you can't make them drink it. Better bring a hammer with you...😉

And I threw in a prize for your wisdom! Enjoy!

20240317 150242.jpg?VersionId=91lfdWWhEQyIOU09 kKvRhRgZloyX1

Oh wait wrong pic!

Screenshot 20240317-045202 Chrome

Here we go...

1
2
plowboy
Posts
14464
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS, USA
3/18/2024 10:11am
CPan wrote:

Different bikes work for different riders. Look at Kenny on the Suzuki. There are no bad 450’s these days. 

My eyes tell me you're %100 correct.  We've heard the stories about this or that mfg/team won't allow changes that the rider requests but I'm not sure I completely believe that.

Don't get yer panties in a wad...I'm sure there's a hard "no" on certain things but almost every guy out there has tried enough stuff to know what suits them best.  Don't sign with a team that can't/won't give you what you need.  Or just get on with it and enjoy the signing bonus.Wink​​

2
3/18/2024 11:34am
Spoonguy wrote:
For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike...

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

ILoveMoto wrote:
"Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well" Are we talking about the same two-time 450cc AMA Supercross Champion while riding a...

"Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well"

Are we talking about the same two-time 450cc AMA Supercross Champion while riding a KTM Cooper Webb?

Spoonguy wrote:
To be clear, you are stating Webb was happy with the KTM team his final year with them? You are stating Webb  never said anything unhappy...

To be clear, you are stating Webb was happy with the KTM team his final year with them? You are stating Webb  never said anything unhappy or dissatisfied about his riding for KTM? You are stating that it has never been written or quoted Webb had struggles with that team? Just to be clear.

Tbf this is very common behaviour for a rider who is ‘over it’ with a certain bike/brand/team. 
This is more a mental thing than a ‘real’ thing. 

Chase was complaining about his Honda last year. 

 

1
3/18/2024 11:37am
The bike is great, especially in the shootouts. But I believe there is still lingering issues with the Team/Management. But it finally appears they are doing...

The bike is great, especially in the shootouts. But I believe there is still lingering issues with the Team/Management. But it finally appears they are doing "whatever it takes" to make their riders happy seeing those KYB inserts in Chase's bike. Look at Vialle and Prado in MXGP right now. And remove Jett from the equation and Chase is doing good and he's not tucking the front which is a huge plus...

You can't argue it's one of the most advanced motocross bikes on the circuit right now...

Some people on this forum believe Chase isn’t ticking the front this year because he’s going slower..

Is this true??

1
3/18/2024 11:41am
people thinking we common folk ride/buy a bike that is anything like what the factory guys are 'complaining' about is even more hilarious...ktm off the shelf...

people thinking we common folk ride/buy a bike that is anything like what the factory guys are 'complaining' about is even more hilarious...ktm off the shelf competes with any other brand...just go buy the color you like and have fun...simple...

Who brought ‘stock’ bikes in to the conversation? I didn’t..🤷‍♀️

This conversation is about Chase’s bike and whether ‘it’ (the factory Red bull KTM) is a good bike. (Comparitive to the other factory bikes he’s competing against) 

 

AssangeMX
Posts
490
Joined
3/12/2024
Location
Belmarsh, CA, USA
3/18/2024 11:44am
Spoonguy wrote:
For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike...

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

sam hain wrote:
Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a...

Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a completely different rider. His problem was lack of experience. 

Spoonguy wrote:

Last year, Vialle entered the USA outdoor nationals as a two time World Champ and won one race.

Have you ever moved to or worked in another country with massive culture and language differences?

7
Sandusky26
Posts
3453
Joined
7/28/2021
Location
Eastern, NC, USA
3/18/2024 12:00pm
sam hain wrote:
Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a...

Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a completely different rider. His problem was lack of experience. 

Spoonguy wrote:

Last year, Vialle entered the USA outdoor nationals as a two time World Champ and won one race.

AssangeMX wrote:

Have you ever moved to or worked in another country with massive culture and language differences?

Yes, any construction job in the south east.

6
3
AssangeMX
Posts
490
Joined
3/12/2024
Location
Belmarsh, CA, USA
3/18/2024 12:06pm
Spoonguy wrote:

Last year, Vialle entered the USA outdoor nationals as a two time World Champ and won one race.

AssangeMX wrote:

Have you ever moved to or worked in another country with massive culture and language differences?

Sandusky26 wrote:

Yes, any construction job in the south east.

Laughing

1
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
3/18/2024 12:08pm

Can't Roger work some of his magic and fix it all?  I thought according to Vital he is the best Team Manager to ever grace the sport and can turn anyone into a champion?  How could he possibly be at the helm of a team that has a sub par bike?

Fire up the milling machine and fix it Rog.....

1
9
Press516
Posts
5802
Joined
9/11/2018
Location
Gilbert, AZ, USA
Fantasy
3/18/2024 12:20pm
Spoonguy wrote:
For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike...

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

sam hain wrote:
Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a...

Vialle's issues have nothing to do with the bike, he's an outdoor MXGP guy not a SX guy. Now that he's got some confidence he's a completely different rider. His problem was lack of experience. 

Spoonguy wrote:

Last year, Vialle entered the USA outdoor nationals as a two time World Champ and won one race.

And Vialle himself said that the outdoor 250 class here is faster than MX2.  It's because the AMA doesn't force riders out like the FIM, and of course the Lawrence brothers over the last 3 years have been the class of the field for sure.  

As I recall, Vialle rode his AMA spec bike at MXoN and won the class...  (correct me if wrong)

1
WarrenMX
Posts
794
Joined
3/26/2017
Location
San Clemente, CA, USA
3/18/2024 12:32pm

Austrian bikes won both mxgp championships last year. They just won both classes in the opening round in Argentina.

The euros all seemed to like stiffer frame and I think it has something to do with them running softer suspension setups. 

1
1
Rotaholic
Posts
1751
Joined
4/2/2013
Location
NZ
3/18/2024 1:39pm

If they just put spring forks and a kickstart on it, I have no doubt it could be up front with the suzuki.

13
1
mtbkris2
Posts
893
Joined
1/17/2024
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
3/18/2024 1:44pm

I think KTMs are rad. I’d love a 350 if I ever had the change to support having 2 bikes. I think the problem with KTM is not the bikes or anything at the consumer level so much as it’s pro race team management level. I don’t understand why they’re so stubborn about some things, trying to force something to work when their top guys clearly hate it. 

1
aees
Posts
2801
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
USA
3/18/2024 1:49pm
WarrenMX wrote:
Austrian bikes won both mxgp championships last year. They just won both classes in the opening round in Argentina. The euros all seemed to like stiffer...

Austrian bikes won both mxgp championships last year. They just won both classes in the opening round in Argentina.

The euros all seemed to like stiffer frame and I think it has something to do with them running softer suspension setups. 

You can't compare them. MXGP bikes cant change and modify anything they want. Frame, swingarm, engine blocks etc.

Herlings used to run one frame for hard packed, and a complete different design for sand. Not sure now.

3/18/2024 3:05pm
Spoonguy wrote:
For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike...

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

Even the air forks are perfect.?👀👀

Flatliner
Posts
4243
Joined
11/3/2009
Location
CA
3/18/2024 3:09pm
First off, the Factory team bikes are modified in every way possible to make them fit the rider better. So in general, the results at the...

First off, the Factory team bikes are modified in every way possible to make them fit the rider better. So in general, the results at the top level are not the best indicator of if a production bike is good or not. 

I think Chase just has not found the best setup for him yet. And Jett is making it look worse than it might be.  Chase was on Honda's for a very long time  too. Plus his hand injury.  If You remove the hand injury, and Jetty from the class I think he doesn't look so bad.   

I've thought this way too....until former pro's have said otherwise.

Seems like at times its "here's the bike, these are the changes you're allowed to make.  No, you can't ride a stocker to start"

plowboy
Posts
14464
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS, USA
3/18/2024 3:33pm
LungButter wrote:
Can't Roger work some of his magic and fix it all?  I thought according to Vital he is the best Team Manager to ever grace the...

Can't Roger work some of his magic and fix it all?  I thought according to Vital he is the best Team Manager to ever grace the sport and can turn anyone into a champion?  How could he possibly be at the helm of a team that has a sub par bike?

Fire up the milling machine and fix it Rog.....

Chase's head is not made of metal.Blush

1
WarrenMX
Posts
794
Joined
3/26/2017
Location
San Clemente, CA, USA
3/18/2024 4:20pm
aees wrote:
You can't compare them. MXGP bikes cant change and modify anything they want. Frame, swingarm, engine blocks etc. Herlings used to run one frame for hard...

You can't compare them. MXGP bikes cant change and modify anything they want. Frame, swingarm, engine blocks etc.

Herlings used to run one frame for hard packed, and a complete different design for sand. Not sure now.

Sure... but I know that KTM want to win in the US more than anything. Do you think if they found something last year on their GP bikes, that they won both classes on, that they wouldn't incorporate that into their next production bike straight away in order to utilize it in the US? That is literally why they release a factory edition over here. 

1
wreckitrandy
Posts
4215
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Granite Falls, NC, USA
3/18/2024 4:24pm

According to vital it's always been crap and they only won titles through luck and DeCoster throwing his weight around. 

1
3/18/2024 4:30pm

Chase is doing okay, what is he 2 or 3 points out of 2nd in points behind Webb. And Webb is showing more speed than he has in last couple of years.

3

Post a reply to: In Vital's eyes, is the KTM a bad bike now?

The Latest