Best offroad motorcycle rider ever.

AMetts
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I think Extreme Enduro and Supercross are almost too far on each end of the spectrum to find a guy that can do both of those well enough. Takes way too much specialized training and time. 

All would depend on the format of the race I guess, Kailub Russell would kill GNCC and the moto stuff, he made it 2/3rd through 2022 Erzberg hard enduro when only 8 guys finished the race. 

Id say between him and Billy Bolt probably.

1
Bearuno
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3/6/2024 7:53am Edited Date/Time 3/6/2024 7:23pm

Sammy Miller.

Could do Everything.

Speed - Road Racing = GPs

Control and finesse - Trials

And everything in between.

Cripes, in the 50s he / others would use the same bike for Road Racing(3rd in the 250cc World Championships in 1957 - and, could probably have gone further upwards, but for the Italian manufacturers pulling out of the GPs) and then Trials / Dirt / Grass Track, Enduros / ISDTs and Scrambles - but, of course, highly modified to suite whatever event they were participating in. It was all very seasonal.

And, Sammy Developed / Made bikes. He was a Major part of Bultaco, and the Sherpa Ts, when he knew the Big Old Thumpers time was running out, and then, Honda (Trials bikes). Had his own business, Sammy Miller Products until he sold it in 2007.

I think he still has the record for most Expert (well, highest) Level Trials event wins in the UK, and, perhaps the World. Over 1300.

And, if you're in England, getting to his Museum is a Do Not Miss.

The Sammy Miller Motorcycle Museum:   https://sammymiller.co.uk/

He has a Lot of videos up of it on YouTube, by the way.

And one of his bikes, GOV 132, a 'somewhat modified' Ariel HT5, ranks as one of the most famous Motorcycles in The World - even if most here may not of heard of it.

I think he is now around 90, and he'll still get out and have a ride on one of his many, incredibly special bikes he has in his Museum.

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TeamGreen
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3/6/2024 8:12am
Bearuno wrote:
Sammy Miller. Could do Everything. Speed - Road Racing = GPs Control and finesse - Trials And everything in between. Cripes, in the 50s he /...

Sammy Miller.

Could do Everything.

Speed - Road Racing = GPs

Control and finesse - Trials

And everything in between.

Cripes, in the 50s he / others would use the same bike for Road Racing(3rd in the 250cc World Championships in 1957 - and, could probably have gone further upwards, but for the Italian manufacturers pulling out of the GPs) and then Trials / Dirt / Grass Track, Enduros / ISDTs and Scrambles - but, of course, highly modified to suite whatever event they were participating in. It was all very seasonal.

And, Sammy Developed / Made bikes. He was a Major part of Bultaco, and the Sherpa Ts, when he knew the Big Old Thumpers time was running out, and then, Honda (Trials bikes). Had his own business, Sammy Miller Products until he sold it in 2007.

I think he still has the record for most Expert (well, highest) Level Trials event wins in the UK, and, perhaps the World. Over 1300.

And, if you're in England, getting to his Museum is a Do Not Miss.

The Sammy Miller Motorcycle Museum:   https://sammymiller.co.uk/

He has a Lot of videos up of it on YouTube, by the way.

And one of his bikes, GOV 132, a 'somewhat modified' Ariel HT5, ranks as one of the most famous Motorcycles in The World - even if most here may not of heard of it.

I think he is now around 90, and he'll still get out and have a ride on one of his many, incredibly special bikes he has in his Museum.

So, Sammy was at Honda when they developed that insanely trick trials bike for Whaley back in the 70s? 

Darrin Willis
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I've seen Trystan Hart race local moto and be competitive against 10th to 15th place canadian national guys. Hes arguably the 3rd best in the world behind bolt and lettinbecher (sp) in hard enduro.  Sipes won the overall at the isde a few years ago. As did Everts about 20 years ago. I dabble in some hard enduro type shit and can testify how good those world class guys are. Its humbling to say the least. When a local pro who makes me look like a beginner competes in a national event and finishes half the race in 7hrs and Hart wins in 2.5hrs its hard to believe .

 

2

The Shop

LungButter
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I've seen Trystan Hart race local moto and be competitive against 10th to 15th place canadian national guys. Hes arguably the 3rd best in the world...

I've seen Trystan Hart race local moto and be competitive against 10th to 15th place canadian national guys. Hes arguably the 3rd best in the world behind bolt and lettinbecher (sp) in hard enduro.  Sipes won the overall at the isde a few years ago. As did Everts about 20 years ago. I dabble in some hard enduro type shit and can testify how good those world class guys are. Its humbling to say the least. When a local pro who makes me look like a beginner competes in a national event and finishes half the race in 7hrs and Hart wins in 2.5hrs its hard to believe .

 

Trystan is pretty damn fast even in non-extreme stuff for sure.

He's actually one of very few of the world class guys that doesn't come from a Trials background, he grew up just racing normal off road from what I understand.  Having said that, off road races in his neck of the woods are freakin' gnarly.

Mick 22
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JMB

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3/6/2024 3:19pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2024 3:20pm
183Matt wrote:

Dante Oliveria or Joseph Garcia for current riders.

I’d have to agree with this. I’d go with Dante 

2
wreckitrandy
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Another thing to consider is, the era particular riders competed in and, the bikes plus mechanical aptitude to keep them running for the duration. For example, Burleson was first American in the Trans Ama (?) WAY back there before he won 8 national Enduro titles. He may have been an engineer? He carried 10lbs of tools on his bike and person to work on his bike on the side of the trail. Bikes weren't near as dependable in the 70s. Lots of motocross guys couldn't change a tire if their life depended on it. There are many angles to look at this debate through. 

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Falcon
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3/6/2024 4:02pm
Mick 22 wrote:

JMB

He has the added pavement pedigree that few of these other guys do, also. I think maybe Steve Wise roadraced at one point, and obviously many of the roadracers are proficient in the dirt, too. JMB was a natural though.

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Nairb#70
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Snail wrote:
If you had an event which was composed of the following events     supercross @ Daytona motocross @ red bud  endurocross hard enduro @ romaniacs. ...

If you had an event which was composed of the following events  

 

supercross @ Daytona

motocross @ red bud 

endurocross

hard enduro @ romaniacs. 

gncc

trials 

baja 1000

 

who would perform the best. Are hard enduro riders better at Supercross than Supercross riders at hard enduro. 

Maybe it was a few years ago, but the title says "greatest off road rider ever". 

Doug Henry's resume:

1993 and 1994 AMA 125 MX champ

1993 AMA 125 East SX champ

1998 AMA 250 MX champ

250 SX winner

Supermoto winner

GNCC winner ( held off Juha Salminen for the win)

Multi time X games winner

Snowcross winner

Multi time adaptive class winner on bike and sled

Clearly, and without a doubt, the best rider in tha widest variety of disciplines ever. End of story.

2
reded301
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Rodney Smith/Ryan Sipes

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Titan1
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If the riders are expected to basically come off the couch and compete at all those disciplines....best overall finish wins...(If you take Trials and Hard enduro out of the mix, it opens things way up)...but trials and hard enduro, those two disciplines (especially trials) are so specialized that it would be far easier for a top trials rider to go fast on a SX or MX track...than it would for a top MX/SX guy to excel at trials. 

So for me, the best all around would have to be a hard enduro/trials rider.  Billy Bolt, Trystan Hart, Coltan Haaker, Mani Lettenbichler, Graham Jarvis....

With that said, If you gave the riders a 3-5 year runway to learn all the disciplines...I think I'd probably give the edge to the top SX/MX riders in the world. 

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Broseph
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Billy Bolt is my choice as well. Here’s why (from OP’s list):

supercross @ Daytona - Billy has good corner speed and isn’t afraid to send it. Also got those looong legs and great bike control for whoops. Maybe he struggles to put rhythms together? I don’t know.

motocross @ red bud - Similar to SX: good corner speed, great bike control, not afraid of big jumps. Would imagine he could figure it out.

endurocross - Already the best in the world.

hard enduro @ romaniacs - Again, already at the top world wide.

gncc - He’s got top level speed through the flowy sections in hard enduro. Has endurance for 3-4 hour races. Seems like he’d be right there in GNCC.

trials - Comes from a trials background and has won championships.  

baja 1000 - If he can hold it wide in a beach race he can hold it wide in Baja. Has the endurance to make it happen.

Obviously this is mostly speculation. Will admit to being a Billy Bolt fanboy. Love watching that guy ride!

 

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PBRvince
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Kurt Caselli

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LungButter
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Nairb#70 wrote:
Maybe it was a few years ago, but the title says "greatest off road rider ever".  Doug Henry's resume: 1993 and 1994 AMA 125 MX champ...

Maybe it was a few years ago, but the title says "greatest off road rider ever". 

Doug Henry's resume:

1993 and 1994 AMA 125 MX champ

1993 AMA 125 East SX champ

1998 AMA 250 MX champ

250 SX winner

Supermoto winner

GNCC winner ( held off Juha Salminen for the win)

Multi time X games winner

Snowcross winner

Multi time adaptive class winner on bike and sled

Clearly, and without a doubt, the best rider in tha widest variety of disciplines ever. End of story.

Well, nothing to do with snowmobiles is relevant so throw that out of consideration.

I present to you Ty Davis....

125 Supercross Champion

National Enduro Champion

National Hare Scrambles Champion

National Hare and Hound Champion

WORCS Champion

Multi Time ISDE Gold Medalist

ZipTy is the only racer to win an AMA National Championship in all off road disciplines... hare scramble, enduro and hare and hound.  

Doug Henry did one GNCC, in the sand no less, hardly qualifies him as the "the best rider in the widest variety of disciplines".  Not trying to be a hater, he's honestly probably my favorite racer of all time.

8
LungButter
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TeamGreen wrote:
Nah…I’ll jus’ look at The Baja 1000… Johnny Campbell Danny Hamel Kurt Caselli 

Nah…I’ll jus’ look at The Baja 1000…Laughing

Johnny Campbell

Danny Hamel

Kurt Caselli 

Johnny does not deserve to be mentioned with Danny & Kurt.  

Danny & Kurt were competitive no matter where they showed up.  Johnny could only seem to pull off wins down in Baja where he was allowed to pre-run.  Make of that what you will. Tongue

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truck
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Gotta be some middle of the pack guy that is Jack of all trades but master of none, kind of like the guy who wins the decathlon but can't compete with the specialists in any individual event. 

I have always thought if I had endless supply of money I'd create some exhibition race with few mile loop of mx, sx, woods, old gp grass track, hill climb, rocks, creek crossing, straight rhythm, or whatever else you can think of, and make it worth their while for the best in multiple disciplines to come have some fun.

There was actually some talk on pulp this week about how guys grow up highly specialized and less of them grow up play riding anywhere and everywhere. There's definitely some truth to it so not sure the modern guys would be top of the list as to the original question. 

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Nairb#70
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3/6/2024 4:47pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2024 4:50pm
Nairb#70 wrote:
Maybe it was a few years ago, but the title says "greatest off road rider ever".  Doug Henry's resume: 1993 and 1994 AMA 125 MX champ...

Maybe it was a few years ago, but the title says "greatest off road rider ever". 

Doug Henry's resume:

1993 and 1994 AMA 125 MX champ

1993 AMA 125 East SX champ

1998 AMA 250 MX champ

250 SX winner

Supermoto winner

GNCC winner ( held off Juha Salminen for the win)

Multi time X games winner

Snowcross winner

Multi time adaptive class winner on bike and sled

Clearly, and without a doubt, the best rider in tha widest variety of disciplines ever. End of story.

LungButter wrote:
Well, nothing to do with snowmobiles is relevant so throw that out of consideration. I present to you Ty Davis.... 125 Supercross Champion National Enduro Champion...

Well, nothing to do with snowmobiles is relevant so throw that out of consideration.

I present to you Ty Davis....

125 Supercross Champion

National Enduro Champion

National Hare Scrambles Champion

National Hare and Hound Champion

WORCS Champion

Multi Time ISDE Gold Medalist

ZipTy is the only racer to win an AMA National Championship in all off road disciplines... hare scramble, enduro and hare and hound.  

Doug Henry did one GNCC, in the sand no less, hardly qualifies him as the "the best rider in the widest variety of disciplines".  Not trying to be a hater, he's honestly probably my favorite racer of all time.

Oh, and I forgot, 1/2 of that stuff came after severely breaking his back at Budds Creek in 1995, unsure if he would ever be able to race again or even ride. Ty was a very multi talented rider as well.

1
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen wrote:
Nah…I’ll jus’ look at The Baja 1000… Johnny Campbell Danny Hamel Kurt Caselli 

Nah…I’ll jus’ look at The Baja 1000…Laughing

Johnny Campbell

Danny Hamel

Kurt Caselli 

LungButter wrote:
Johnny does not deserve to be mentioned with Danny & Kurt.   Danny & Kurt were competitive no matter where they showed up.  Johnny could only seem...

Johnny does not deserve to be mentioned with Danny & Kurt.  

Danny & Kurt were competitive no matter where they showed up.  Johnny could only seem to pull off wins down in Baja where he was allowed to pre-run.  Make of that what you will. Tongue

Did you ever notice what Johnny pulled off as a “chase rider” at the Dakar? He was only out there to provide spares for the HRC competitors…& he still managed to be “in” it…

I’ve heard Johnny say DH was the best there ever was…and he felt KC was headed that way…so…

I’m jus’ knowin’…

4
Bearuno
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3/6/2024 6:16pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2024 6:25pm
TeamGreen wrote:

So, Sammy was at Honda when they developed that insanely trick trials bike for Whaley back in the 70s? 

Yes!.

I urge you (All) to look him up / check his Museum site.

I have been aware of him since my childhood in the 60s. But it was all about the famed GOV 132 , Bultaco, ISDT(multiple Gold Medals), The Scottish 6 day, The Scott Trial, Trials - his something like 9 or 11 Brit Trials championships, his 2 European ( really, World ) Trials Championships - His Honda work, and his ever increasing wins, even after he'd stopped competing at World level .

Then I got a Biography about him sometime in the 80s, to learn about his Full career, and his Road racing achievements in the 50s.

The man is a Legend, and a Treasure to Motorcycling.

TeamGreen
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3/6/2024 6:20pm

Me thinks an MXON trip is in order…?

3/6/2024 6:30pm
I've seen Trystan Hart race local moto and be competitive against 10th to 15th place canadian national guys. Hes arguably the 3rd best in the world...

I've seen Trystan Hart race local moto and be competitive against 10th to 15th place canadian national guys. Hes arguably the 3rd best in the world behind bolt and lettinbecher (sp) in hard enduro.  Sipes won the overall at the isde a few years ago. As did Everts about 20 years ago. I dabble in some hard enduro type shit and can testify how good those world class guys are. Its humbling to say the least. When a local pro who makes me look like a beginner competes in a national event and finishes half the race in 7hrs and Hart wins in 2.5hrs its hard to believe .

 

LungButter wrote:
Trystan is pretty damn fast even in non-extreme stuff for sure. He's actually one of very few of the world class guys that doesn't come from...

Trystan is pretty damn fast even in non-extreme stuff for sure.

He's actually one of very few of the world class guys that doesn't come from a Trials background, he grew up just racing normal off road from what I understand.  Having said that, off road races in his neck of the woods are freakin' gnarly.

Billy is just a more skilled version of him though. No disrespect to Trystan, but I don’t think there’s any discipline where he has the upper hand on Billy

1
Bearuno
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3/6/2024 6:43pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2024 6:44pm
TeamGreen wrote:

Me thinks an MXON trip is in order…?

That, is Always in order!

I'm trying very hard (desperately, basically) to get a company I do work for in 3 countries, to schedule my itinerary to be in Britain in early October. It would, be, I'd say, my last MXDN.

Might have to be happy with just getting to the Indonesian GPs this year, on my own (well, hopefully, with "She who Must be Obeyed", on Her dime - she really likes Indonesia now, and has more money than Zod) 'dime'. The place we stayed at in Sumbawa was suitably exotic and upmarket for her, and, the track is Magnificent. Lombok - less so, on both accounts, but Indonesia is a Hoot. And they are Motorcycle crazy!

 

Sully
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3/6/2024 7:19pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2024 7:20pm
183Matt wrote:

Dante Oliveria or Joseph Garcia for current riders.

Didn't Garcia race the GPs for a season or two? I don't know how he'd do in trials, but he'd rip in hard enduro, endurocross and MX/SX.

For the overall, though, I have to agree with everyone who said Billy Bolt. The guy is a freak on a dirt bike.

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KTMBRO362
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Christophe Charlier 

NicNak
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3/6/2024 8:42pm
183Matt wrote:

Dante Oliveria or Joseph Garcia for current riders.

I’d have to agree with this. I’d go with Dante 

Dante is insane! I’m super impressed with him…hate to say this but you guys don’t think sexton & Lawrence couldn’t finish overall best? Sexton raced some gncc’s growing up & has unreal bike skill. I’m sure he’d show up to this hypothetical contest ready to go 

Broseph
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3/6/2024 9:01pm
183Matt wrote:

Dante Oliveria or Joseph Garcia for current riders.

I’d have to agree with this. I’d go with Dante 

NicNak wrote:
Dante is insane! I’m super impressed with him…hate to say this but you guys don’t think sexton & Lawrence couldn’t finish overall best? Sexton raced some...

Dante is insane! I’m super impressed with him…hate to say this but you guys don’t think sexton & Lawrence couldn’t finish overall best? Sexton raced some gncc’s growing up & has unreal bike skill. I’m sure he’d show up to this hypothetical contest ready to go 

Sexton, Lawrence, and the rest of the moto guys have no trials background though making them completely uncompetitive in that discipline and also way off the mark in hard enduro and endurocross.
 

Then there’s some of the hard enduro/ endurocross guys who have that specialized trials skill set but can also shred on a motocross track. Pretty sure they’re winning this hypothetical competition. 

1
LungButter
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3/6/2024 9:03pm
NicNak wrote:
Dante is insane! I’m super impressed with him…hate to say this but you guys don’t think sexton & Lawrence couldn’t finish overall best? Sexton raced some...

Dante is insane! I’m super impressed with him…hate to say this but you guys don’t think sexton & Lawrence couldn’t finish overall best? Sexton raced some gncc’s growing up & has unreal bike skill. I’m sure he’d show up to this hypothetical contest ready to go 

Hard to argue that logic but man....Hard Enduro, Trials and Endurcross are so specialized and far removed from what those guys do day to day that I just don't know how they do.  Look what happened when Filthy Phil tried endurocross Laughing

But a guy like Billy Bolt rides a lot of moto, obviously  not SX but look at his precision jumping skills in SuperEnduro/Endurocross, he's probably faster than most local/regional pros at MX I bet and I bet could adapt quick to SX.  Didn't Cody Webb make some Arenacross mains on a Sherco a few years back?

Husky lets Billy do a lot of one off racing, maybe they can get him a Wild Card at an MXGP later this Summer, especially seeing as how he's already out of the Hard Enduro Championship with his knee surgery.

Probably no wrong answers, been some cool names thrown out there.

3
3/6/2024 10:42pm
NicNak wrote:
Dante is insane! I’m super impressed with him…hate to say this but you guys don’t think sexton & Lawrence couldn’t finish overall best? Sexton raced some...

Dante is insane! I’m super impressed with him…hate to say this but you guys don’t think sexton & Lawrence couldn’t finish overall best? Sexton raced some gncc’s growing up & has unreal bike skill. I’m sure he’d show up to this hypothetical contest ready to go 

LungButter wrote:
Hard to argue that logic but man....Hard Enduro, Trials and Endurcross are so specialized and far removed from what those guys do day to day that...

Hard to argue that logic but man....Hard Enduro, Trials and Endurcross are so specialized and far removed from what those guys do day to day that I just don't know how they do.  Look what happened when Filthy Phil tried endurocross Laughing

But a guy like Billy Bolt rides a lot of moto, obviously  not SX but look at his precision jumping skills in SuperEnduro/Endurocross, he's probably faster than most local/regional pros at MX I bet and I bet could adapt quick to SX.  Didn't Cody Webb make some Arenacross mains on a Sherco a few years back?

Husky lets Billy do a lot of one off racing, maybe they can get him a Wild Card at an MXGP later this Summer, especially seeing as how he's already out of the Hard Enduro Championship with his knee surgery.

Probably no wrong answers, been some cool names thrown out there.

Billy has raced many British Nationals. He’s for sure faster than 90% of local pros on a motocross track. Combine that with his EnduroGP experience, world trials championship results and his primary discipline of hard enduro and I really can’t see anyone beating him 

2

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