The 2024 Presidential Campaign has officially started..

SCR wrote:

philG saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away across the Atlantic Ocean. Some Americans couldn't see it happening right in front of them.

Loam Ranger wrote:

The fact you guys still believe this crap is insane. In-fucking-sane. Phil 'saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away' because firstly he's psychologically wired to...

The fact you guys still believe this crap is insane. In-fucking-sane.

Phil 'saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away' because firstly he's psychologically wired to jump head first into every conspiracy theory he can find, and secondly he listens to the same phoney idiots peddling misinformation that you guys do.

Ken Block Op-Ed USA Today

TRUMP PAID ME TO FIND VOTER FRAUD. THEN HE LIED AFTER I FOUND 2020 ELECTION WASN'T STOLEN

Ken Block  |  Opinion contributor

Can a steady diet of lies and innuendo overcome the truth?

In November 2020, former President Donald Trump asserted that voter fraud had altered the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. The day after the election, his campaign hired an expert in voter data to attempt to prove Trump’s allegations and put him back in the White House.

I am the expert who was hired by the Trump campaign.

The findings of my company’s in-depth analysis are detailed in the depositions taken by the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol. The transcripts show that the campaign found no evidence of voter fraud sufficient to change the outcome of any election. That message was communicated directly to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows.

Our findings have also been subpoenaed by special counsel Jack Smith’s federal investigation and Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’ investigation in Georgia. Those emails and documents show that the voter data available to the campaign contained no evidence of large-scale voter fraud based on data mining and fraud analytics.

More important, claims of voter fraud made by others were verified as false, including proof of why those claims were disproven.

And yet, the cries that the election was lost or stolen due to voter fraud continue with no sign of stopping. Whether a stump speech, outrageous lawsuits like the so-called Kraken cases filed by Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani’s lies or the ongoing misguided efforts of people determined to prove the election was stolen, the constant drumbeat hardens people’s hearts and minds to the truth about the 2020 election.

Rudy Giuliani lied about voter fraud in Georgia

It’s part of a steady diet of innuendo, misrepresentations and outright lies when it comes to the issue of voter fraud. Giuliani admitted he lied about Ruby Freeman and her daughter committing election crimes in Georgia. *******Stories that set the record straight about election innuendo are not typically broadcast in right-leaning media, which means that millions of people receive no information to help them make a more informed decision about what happened in 2020.*******

What these claims don’t take into account is that voter fraud is detectable, quantifiable and verifiable. I have yet to see anyone offer up “evidence” of voter fraud from the 2020 election that provides these three things.

My company’s contract with the campaign obligated us to deliver evidence of voter fraud that could be defended in a court of law. The small amount of voter fraud I found was bipartisan, with about as many Republicans casting duplicate votes as Democrats.

This is a crime of privilege: Those with two homes sometimes take two bites of the electoral apple.

There were also small numbers of deceased voters. Still, nothing emerged that could provide a solid basis for a legal challenge to an election result in any of the states we evaluated.

Additional legal hurdles beyond solid evidence of fraud stand in the way of any effort to overturn or negate an election result through our legal system. Even if it could be shown that more fraudulent votes were cast in a state than the margin of victory in 2020, no one can determine for which candidate each fraudulent ballot was cast.

Trump's claims of voter fraud have no foundation in the truth

We vote anonymously − with good reason. No candidate can credibly claim that a fraudulent vote was credited to their opponent unless the person who cast that vote tells us.

This means that a candidate trying to use voter fraud as the reason to change an election result cannot show that the fraudulent votes caused their election loss.

As a former gubernatorial candidate, I can admire the discipline it takes to stay on message on a single issue. There is no doubt that voter fraud can animate people. But it is one thing to provide a rallying point for supporters and quite another to drag our election infrastructure and legal system into a foundationless set of false claims.

A better use of time, money and energy would be to address systemic weaknesses in our election systems – such as the distressing lack of national election infrastructure to enforce election integrity, destructive practices to our elections such as gerrymandering, and leveling the playing field so that our elections become fairer and more competitive.

If voter fraud had impacted the 2020 election, it would already have been proven. Maintaining the lies undermines faith in the foundation of our democracy.

Zycki11 wrote:

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because...

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because of 2 reasons. 1. You don’t know enough about the events 2. Blind hatred 

Loam Ranger wrote:

The fact you guys still believe this crap is insane. In-fucking-sane. Phil 'saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away' because firstly he's psychologically wired to...

The fact you guys still believe this crap is insane. In-fucking-sane.

Phil 'saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away' because firstly he's psychologically wired to jump head first into every conspiracy theory he can find, and secondly he listens to the same phoney idiots peddling misinformation that you guys do.

Ken Block Op-Ed USA Today

TRUMP PAID ME TO FIND VOTER FRAUD. THEN HE LIED AFTER I FOUND 2020 ELECTION WASN'T STOLEN

Ken Block  |  Opinion contributor

Can a steady diet of lies and innuendo overcome the truth?

In November 2020, former President Donald Trump asserted that voter fraud had altered the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. The day after the election, his campaign hired an expert in voter data to attempt to prove Trump’s allegations and put him back in the White House.

I am the expert who was hired by the Trump campaign.

The findings of my company’s in-depth analysis are detailed in the depositions taken by the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol. The transcripts show that the campaign found no evidence of voter fraud sufficient to change the outcome of any election. That message was communicated directly to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows.

Our findings have also been subpoenaed by special counsel Jack Smith’s federal investigation and Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’ investigation in Georgia. Those emails and documents show that the voter data available to the campaign contained no evidence of large-scale voter fraud based on data mining and fraud analytics.

More important, claims of voter fraud made by others were verified as false, including proof of why those claims were disproven.

And yet, the cries that the election was lost or stolen due to voter fraud continue with no sign of stopping. Whether a stump speech, outrageous lawsuits like the so-called Kraken cases filed by Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani’s lies or the ongoing misguided efforts of people determined to prove the election was stolen, the constant drumbeat hardens people’s hearts and minds to the truth about the 2020 election.

Rudy Giuliani lied about voter fraud in Georgia

It’s part of a steady diet of innuendo, misrepresentations and outright lies when it comes to the issue of voter fraud. Giuliani admitted he lied about Ruby Freeman and her daughter committing election crimes in Georgia. *******Stories that set the record straight about election innuendo are not typically broadcast in right-leaning media, which means that millions of people receive no information to help them make a more informed decision about what happened in 2020.*******

What these claims don’t take into account is that voter fraud is detectable, quantifiable and verifiable. I have yet to see anyone offer up “evidence” of voter fraud from the 2020 election that provides these three things.

My company’s contract with the campaign obligated us to deliver evidence of voter fraud that could be defended in a court of law. The small amount of voter fraud I found was bipartisan, with about as many Republicans casting duplicate votes as Democrats.

This is a crime of privilege: Those with two homes sometimes take two bites of the electoral apple.

There were also small numbers of deceased voters. Still, nothing emerged that could provide a solid basis for a legal challenge to an election result in any of the states we evaluated.

Additional legal hurdles beyond solid evidence of fraud stand in the way of any effort to overturn or negate an election result through our legal system. Even if it could be shown that more fraudulent votes were cast in a state than the margin of victory in 2020, no one can determine for which candidate each fraudulent ballot was cast.

Trump's claims of voter fraud have no foundation in the truth

We vote anonymously − with good reason. No candidate can credibly claim that a fraudulent vote was credited to their opponent unless the person who cast that vote tells us.

This means that a candidate trying to use voter fraud as the reason to change an election result cannot show that the fraudulent votes caused their election loss.

As a former gubernatorial candidate, I can admire the discipline it takes to stay on message on a single issue. There is no doubt that voter fraud can animate people. But it is one thing to provide a rallying point for supporters and quite another to drag our election infrastructure and legal system into a foundationless set of false claims.

A better use of time, money and energy would be to address systemic weaknesses in our election systems – such as the distressing lack of national election infrastructure to enforce election integrity, destructive practices to our elections such as gerrymandering, and leveling the playing field so that our elections become fairer and more competitive.

If voter fraud had impacted the 2020 election, it would already have been proven. Maintaining the lies undermines faith in the foundation of our democracy.

Zycki11 wrote:

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because...

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because of 2 reasons. 1. You don’t know enough about the events 2. Blind hatred 

Loam Ranger wrote:

It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced up to reality.

 

Zycki11 wrote:

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because...

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because of 2 reasons. 1. You don’t know enough about the events 2. Blind hatred 

Loam Ranger wrote:

It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced up to reality.

 

Zycki11 wrote:

Lmao and who are you to tell me to do anything? What is it with people like you… small dick syndrome? Clearly you think you have...

Lmao and who are you to tell me to do anything? What is it with people like you… small dick syndrome? Clearly you think you have it all figured out. 

Zycki11 wrote:

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because...

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because of 2 reasons. 1. You don’t know enough about the events 2. Blind hatred 

indy_maico wrote:

You obviously did not read it. It is not an 'opinion piece' It is a factual summary by the guy whose firm was hired by trump...

You obviously did not read it.

It is not an 'opinion piece'

It is a factual summary by the guy whose firm was hired by trump to find voter fraud.

He didn't find any.

There, I summarized it to save you the 5 minutes it would have taken to actually read it yourself.

Loam Ranger wrote:

Extract from Vivek Ramaswamys book;

Extract from Vivek Ramaswamys book;

philG wrote:

But it isnt a democracy, its a Constitutional Republic.  If you havent realised that the last 2 elections were as corrupt as fuck, you must be...

But it isnt a democracy, its a Constitutional Republic. 

If you havent realised that the last 2 elections were as corrupt as fuck, you must be a Democrat. 

ThatOneMXGuy wrote:

I have seen your many posts and you aren’t even worth my time, other than this one post to let you know that. Better to let...

I have seen your many posts and you aren’t even worth my time, other than this one post to let you know that. Better to let you keep believing you’re correct than it is to even try to talk some sense into you. But just in case you were wondering, you’re completely wrong. Some people are too far gone to even bother with. You fit that mold.

SCR wrote:

philG saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away across the Atlantic Ocean. Some Americans couldn't see it happening right in front of them.

Loam Ranger wrote:

The fact you guys still believe this crap is insane. In-fucking-sane. Phil 'saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away' because firstly he's psychologically wired to...

The fact you guys still believe this crap is insane. In-fucking-sane.

Phil 'saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away' because firstly he's psychologically wired to jump head first into every conspiracy theory he can find, and secondly he listens to the same phoney idiots peddling misinformation that you guys do.

Ken Block Op-Ed USA Today

TRUMP PAID ME TO FIND VOTER FRAUD. THEN HE LIED AFTER I FOUND 2020 ELECTION WASN'T STOLEN

Ken Block  |  Opinion contributor

Can a steady diet of lies and innuendo overcome the truth?

In November 2020, former President Donald Trump asserted that voter fraud had altered the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. The day after the election, his campaign hired an expert in voter data to attempt to prove Trump’s allegations and put him back in the White House.

I am the expert who was hired by the Trump campaign.

The findings of my company’s in-depth analysis are detailed in the depositions taken by the Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol. The transcripts show that the campaign found no evidence of voter fraud sufficient to change the outcome of any election. That message was communicated directly to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows.

Our findings have also been subpoenaed by special counsel Jack Smith’s federal investigation and Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis’ investigation in Georgia. Those emails and documents show that the voter data available to the campaign contained no evidence of large-scale voter fraud based on data mining and fraud analytics.

More important, claims of voter fraud made by others were verified as false, including proof of why those claims were disproven.

And yet, the cries that the election was lost or stolen due to voter fraud continue with no sign of stopping. Whether a stump speech, outrageous lawsuits like the so-called Kraken cases filed by Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani’s lies or the ongoing misguided efforts of people determined to prove the election was stolen, the constant drumbeat hardens people’s hearts and minds to the truth about the 2020 election.

Rudy Giuliani lied about voter fraud in Georgia

It’s part of a steady diet of innuendo, misrepresentations and outright lies when it comes to the issue of voter fraud. Giuliani admitted he lied about Ruby Freeman and her daughter committing election crimes in Georgia. *******Stories that set the record straight about election innuendo are not typically broadcast in right-leaning media, which means that millions of people receive no information to help them make a more informed decision about what happened in 2020.*******

What these claims don’t take into account is that voter fraud is detectable, quantifiable and verifiable. I have yet to see anyone offer up “evidence” of voter fraud from the 2020 election that provides these three things.

My company’s contract with the campaign obligated us to deliver evidence of voter fraud that could be defended in a court of law. The small amount of voter fraud I found was bipartisan, with about as many Republicans casting duplicate votes as Democrats.

This is a crime of privilege: Those with two homes sometimes take two bites of the electoral apple.

There were also small numbers of deceased voters. Still, nothing emerged that could provide a solid basis for a legal challenge to an election result in any of the states we evaluated.

Additional legal hurdles beyond solid evidence of fraud stand in the way of any effort to overturn or negate an election result through our legal system. Even if it could be shown that more fraudulent votes were cast in a state than the margin of victory in 2020, no one can determine for which candidate each fraudulent ballot was cast.

Trump's claims of voter fraud have no foundation in the truth

We vote anonymously − with good reason. No candidate can credibly claim that a fraudulent vote was credited to their opponent unless the person who cast that vote tells us.

This means that a candidate trying to use voter fraud as the reason to change an election result cannot show that the fraudulent votes caused their election loss.

As a former gubernatorial candidate, I can admire the discipline it takes to stay on message on a single issue. There is no doubt that voter fraud can animate people. But it is one thing to provide a rallying point for supporters and quite another to drag our election infrastructure and legal system into a foundationless set of false claims.

A better use of time, money and energy would be to address systemic weaknesses in our election systems – such as the distressing lack of national election infrastructure to enforce election integrity, destructive practices to our elections such as gerrymandering, and leveling the playing field so that our elections become fairer and more competitive.

If voter fraud had impacted the 2020 election, it would already have been proven. Maintaining the lies undermines faith in the foundation of our democracy.

Zycki11 wrote:

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because...

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because of 2 reasons. 1. You don’t know enough about the events 2. Blind hatred 

Loam Ranger wrote:

It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced up to reality.

 

Zycki11 wrote:

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because...

You do realize that you are posting an Opinion piece right? From USA Today of all places…. The reason you think it is insane is because of 2 reasons. 1. You don’t know enough about the events 2. Blind hatred 

Loam Ranger wrote:

It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced up to reality.

 

Sully wrote:

Are you American?

TeamGreen wrote:

When I look at who comes in here and presumes to have the balls to say (pun intended): "It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced...

When I look at who comes in here and presumes to have the balls to say (pun intended):

"It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced up to reality."

I quite literally almost spit perfectly good coffee all over my new monitor.

Apologies if my implications misgendered anyone.

ThatOneMXGuy wrote:

I have seen your many posts and you aren’t even worth my time, other than this one post to let you know that. Better to let...

I have seen your many posts and you aren’t even worth my time, other than this one post to let you know that. Better to let you keep believing you’re correct than it is to even try to talk some sense into you. But just in case you were wondering, you’re completely wrong. Some people are too far gone to even bother with. You fit that mold.

LungButter wrote:

Tell us you blindly follow the liberal agenda without telling us….

ThatOneMXGuy wrote:

If the “liberal agenda” is accepting election results whether my candidate wins or loses, I guess I blindly follow the liberal agenda. That’s democracy.

ThatOneMXGuy wrote:

I have seen your many posts and you aren’t even worth my time, other than this one post to let you know that. Better to let...

I have seen your many posts and you aren’t even worth my time, other than this one post to let you know that. Better to let you keep believing you’re correct than it is to even try to talk some sense into you. But just in case you were wondering, you’re completely wrong. Some people are too far gone to even bother with. You fit that mold.

SCR wrote:

philG saw the election fraud from 3,000 miles away across the Atlantic Ocean. Some Americans couldn't see it happening right in front of them.

Hudweiser9 wrote:

It's not that they couldn't see it... it's that they didn't want to see it since "their" guy (supposedly) won. They have been brainwashed by the...

It's not that they couldn't see it... it's that they didn't want to see it since "their" guy (supposedly) won. They have been brainwashed by the mainstream media and social media. You know, all those "influencers" 

TeamGreen wrote:

When I look at who comes in here and presumes to have the balls to say (pun intended): "It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced...

When I look at who comes in here and presumes to have the balls to say (pun intended):

"It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced up to reality."

I quite literally almost spit perfectly good coffee all over my new monitor.

Apologies if my implications misgendered anyone.

Loam Ranger wrote:

You have a strange fascination with this gender thing don't you, it's almost like a... sexual kink. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised if...

You have a strange fascination with this gender thing don't you, it's almost like a... sexual kink. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised if you dressed as a woman in private and frequented the local gay bars as Tina Green. 

Shawn142 wrote:

All I gotta say is the Repubs are lucky the Electoral College exists.  The last Republican candidate to win the simple majority vote was Regan.  Bush...

All I gotta say is the Repubs are lucky the Electoral College exists.  The last Republican candidate to win the simple majority vote was Regan.  Bush did win the popular vote on his reelection campaign but that one doesn't count since he lost the first go around against Gore.  Now days the gap between the two is bigger than ever, Republicans as they exist today are clearly the fading minority since Trump took the wheel and turned them hard right.  "Conservative" is no longer the word that describes it.  

I do enjoy listening to rants about "mainstream media".  I don't even know a person who watches the news or frequents a specific news site.  Anyone's social media feed is just an echo chamber reinforcing their beliefs via algorithm.  No one is "influenced" anymore, you're just fed shit you already believe anyway.  

Shawn142 wrote:

All I gotta say is the Repubs are lucky the Electoral College exists.  The last Republican candidate to win the simple majority vote was Regan.  Bush...

All I gotta say is the Repubs are lucky the Electoral College exists.  The last Republican candidate to win the simple majority vote was Regan.  Bush did win the popular vote on his reelection campaign but that one doesn't count since he lost the first go around against Gore.  Now days the gap between the two is bigger than ever, Republicans as they exist today are clearly the fading minority since Trump took the wheel and turned them hard right.  "Conservative" is no longer the word that describes it.  

I do enjoy listening to rants about "mainstream media".  I don't even know a person who watches the news or frequents a specific news site.  Anyone's social media feed is just an echo chamber reinforcing their beliefs via algorithm.  No one is "influenced" anymore, you're just fed shit you already believe anyway.  

LOOnatic wrote:

The Framers of the constitution were wise in the regard of realizing the need for the Electoral  college.   It's like they could see the danger...

The Framers of the constitution were wise in the regard of realizing the need for the Electoral  college.

 

It's like they could see the danger of a duped and obedient electorate as being a danger to the country. 

 

You mentioned Trump as turning the Republican party more right but no mention of the Democrat Party having turned more Left..

It's wild stuff because just a few years ago many Democrats held positions and views that are now viewed as evil and Republican.

Securing the Border for example 

TeamGreen wrote:

When I look at who comes in here and presumes to have the balls to say (pun intended): "It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced...

When I look at who comes in here and presumes to have the balls to say (pun intended):

"It's beyond time you guys grew a pair and faced up to reality."

I quite literally almost spit perfectly good coffee all over my new monitor.

Apologies if my implications misgendered anyone.

Loam Ranger wrote:

You have a strange fascination with this gender thing don't you, it's almost like a... sexual kink. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised if...

You have a strange fascination with this gender thing don't you, it's almost like a... sexual kink. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised if you dressed as a woman in private and frequented the local gay bars as Tina Green. 

OW38B wrote:

"Ad hominem" - (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.   Your type of people are good at...

"Ad hominem" - (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

 

Your type of people are good at ad hominems....... 

indy_maico wrote:

The 'duped and obedient' are definitely in the trump column. The framers couldn't possibly have seen a country where 1 state has 40 million people represented...

The 'duped and obedient' are definitely in the trump column.

The framers couldn't possibly have seen a country where 1 state has 40 million people represented by 2 senators and 52 congressmen (1 per 770,000) and another has 500,000 also with 2 senators with 1 congressman (per 500,000.)

Wise my ass.

LOOnatic wrote:

Lemme guess you're in favor of abolishing the Electoral College?

indy_maico wrote:

Count me in among the 65% who think the popular vote should decide elections. Abolishing the EC won't happen anytime soon. But there is a workaround...

Count me in among the 65% who think the popular vote should decide elections. Abolishing the EC won't happen anytime soon.

But there is a workaround:

https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

 

LOOnatic wrote:

The Framers of the constitution were wise in the regard of realizing the need for the Electoral  college.   It's like they could see the danger...

The Framers of the constitution were wise in the regard of realizing the need for the Electoral  college.

 

It's like they could see the danger of a duped and obedient electorate as being a danger to the country. 

 

You mentioned Trump as turning the Republican party more right but no mention of the Democrat Party having turned more Left..

It's wild stuff because just a few years ago many Democrats held positions and views that are now viewed as evil and Republican.

Securing the Border for example 

indy_maico wrote:

The 'duped and obedient' are definitely in the trump column. The framers couldn't possibly have seen a country where 1 state has 40 million people represented...

The 'duped and obedient' are definitely in the trump column.

The framers couldn't possibly have seen a country where 1 state has 40 million people represented by 2 senators and 52 congressmen (1 per 770,000) and another has 500,000 also with 2 senators with 1 congressman (per 500,000.)

Wise my ass.

whyZ wrote:

Pretty sure this was the link you meant to post for your workaround. 

Illegal border crossers total over 10 million since Biden inauguration - Washington Examiner

Shawn142 wrote:

All I gotta say is the Repubs are lucky the Electoral College exists.  The last Republican candidate to win the simple majority vote was Regan.  Bush...

All I gotta say is the Repubs are lucky the Electoral College exists.  The last Republican candidate to win the simple majority vote was Regan.  Bush did win the popular vote on his reelection campaign but that one doesn't count since he lost the first go around against Gore.  Now days the gap between the two is bigger than ever, Republicans as they exist today are clearly the fading minority since Trump took the wheel and turned them hard right.  "Conservative" is no longer the word that describes it.  

I do enjoy listening to rants about "mainstream media".  I don't even know a person who watches the news or frequents a specific news site.  Anyone's social media feed is just an echo chamber reinforcing their beliefs via algorithm.  No one is "influenced" anymore, you're just fed shit you already believe anyway.  

indy_maico wrote:

Great post. Hit the nail on the head.

OW38B wrote:

Bro, it is right in the title....the "United States of America". It is why the upper house has 2 Senators from each state and presidential elections...

Bro, it is right in the title....the "United States of America".

It is why the upper house has 2 Senators from each state and presidential elections use a state-by-state electoral college.

You were sick the day they taught the USA Constitution in school?

LOOnatic wrote:

The Framers of the constitution were wise in the regard of realizing the need for the Electoral  college.   It's like they could see the danger...

The Framers of the constitution were wise in the regard of realizing the need for the Electoral  college.

 

It's like they could see the danger of a duped and obedient electorate as being a danger to the country. 

 

You mentioned Trump as turning the Republican party more right but no mention of the Democrat Party having turned more Left..

It's wild stuff because just a few years ago many Democrats held positions and views that are now viewed as evil and Republican.

Securing the Border for example 

indy_maico wrote:

The 'duped and obedient' are definitely in the trump column. The framers couldn't possibly have seen a country where 1 state has 40 million people represented...

The 'duped and obedient' are definitely in the trump column.

The framers couldn't possibly have seen a country where 1 state has 40 million people represented by 2 senators and 52 congressmen (1 per 770,000) and another has 500,000 also with 2 senators with 1 congressman (per 500,000.)

Wise my ass.