Savatgy speaks on “the situation”

11/29/2023 5:11pm
cameron96 wrote:
90% of fans want to see Joey race 99% want to see a Triumph race   math is simple.  The racing will be better.  let him...

90% of fans want to see Joey race

99% want to see a Triumph race  

math is simple.  The racing will be better. 

let him race!

Where did you get your stats from, have you done a survey?

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4
Gravel
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11/29/2023 5:51pm

Make the 250 and 450 classes full pro classes, no age, point out, time out or regional BS. AX is the feeder series, let pro races be fully pro races. 
 

And if Savatgy wants to race a 250, let him. 

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avidchimp
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11/29/2023 5:53pm
Gravel wrote:
Make the 250 and 450 classes full pro classes, no age, point out, time out or regional BS. AX is the feeder series, let pro races...

Make the 250 and 450 classes full pro classes, no age, point out, time out or regional BS. AX is the feeder series, let pro races be fully pro races. 
 

And if Savatgy wants to race a 250, let him. 

Agree with all of this except the regional thing, it is actually good for the sport as a whole to have it that way.

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1

The Shop

Wide TF Open
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11/29/2023 6:10pm Edited Date/Time 11/29/2023 6:11pm

Would love to keep the 450 as the "premier class" and have some sort of age and championship limit. Just doesn't seem right guys coming into the class at 17 years old battling with guys 28+, nearly 10 years experience. 

Under current rules though he should be allowed back. 

1
Gravel
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11/29/2023 6:12pm
soggy wrote:
How many jobs are we realistically talking about… 20?   in my opinion they should make the 250 a national title 12-14rounds. The teams can decide...

How many jobs are we realistically talking about… 20?

 

in my opinion they should make the 250 a national title 12-14rounds. The teams can decide which rounds they want the riders to race with a few being required for everyone to race (triple crowns) and final. 

LungButter wrote:
Well, you could probably cut the Star, Pro Circuit and maybe some other teams in half.  So all those riders, mechanics and probably some other support...

Well, you could probably cut the Star, Pro Circuit and maybe some other teams in half.  So all those riders, mechanics and probably some other support staff, done.

Then you gotta consider teams that only race one coast like TiLube, AEO, Solitaire etc. etc. are those teams gonna go full time or they just gonna pack it in?

I agree that the 250 class is a little "broken" but I don't know that just shit canning the regional parts of it is the correct answer.

Savatgy had plenty of time in the 250 class, do we really need to change everything to let him back in?

The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut the rides by half, it’d just be a question of how many riders could a team support full time vs number of part time riders for the same pile of $.

And pro sports shouldn’t be a jobs program anyway. Should we have 3, 4, maybe 5 regional 250 champions? Then everyone could have a factory ride! I can hear it now: “I’m the upper Midwest national SX 250 national champion!

That’s kinda what an East or West coast regional championship looks like now.. it dilutes the meaning of a championship.. 

 

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8tensolutions
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11/29/2023 6:25pm
THIS.  It should be the same as outdoors where it holds the same rules as 450's.  They already get the same TV coverage and in some...

THIS.  It should be the same as outdoors where it holds the same rules as 450's.  They already get the same TV coverage and in some cases the racing is better.  make it 17 rounds and open for any pro to qualify.  Don't give the BS about job creation or privateers.  This is the highest level of racing in the world and the Teams would still hire the riders who produce results.  

LungButter wrote:

They just wouldn't hire as many of them, thus less jobs.

I don't really see how that's up for debate.

It would create more space for additional teams like Club and others.  I am not sure they wouldn't hire as many either.  Their Budget would be the same and they have to plan for potential injuries etc.  It would also create an opportunity for an actual feeder class that is not part of the major production.....like a larger version of futures that the Teams could field riders in as well with very strict guidelines who can compete and how long they are eligible.....and that could create even more jobs.

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Pop Shmoke
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11/29/2023 6:43pm

Lets be serious here, 99% of the time the riders who are staying in the class for a decade are not winning a championship and arent “blocking” any of the young guns from winning one. If they were that good they would have already won or got a 450 ride. Every once in a while a christain craig happens, but even then so what? James Stewart was wooping grown mens asses on a 125 at 16, the cream always rises to the top. This issue literally only affects 2 riders right now and then will never affect any riders ever again. There arent any other ppl grandfathered in under the old rule. Just let those 2 race and then its never an issue ever again.

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-MAVERICK-
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11/29/2023 6:59pm
Gravel wrote:
The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut...

The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut the rides by half, it’d just be a question of how many riders could a team support full time vs number of part time riders for the same pile of $.

And pro sports shouldn’t be a jobs program anyway. Should we have 3, 4, maybe 5 regional 250 champions? Then everyone could have a factory ride! I can hear it now: “I’m the upper Midwest national SX 250 national champion!

That’s kinda what an East or West coast regional championship looks like now.. it dilutes the meaning of a championship.. 

 

"The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders."

Okay, so why aren't the 450 teams running 3-4 factory riders under their tents? 

 

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Johnny Ringo
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11/29/2023 7:17pm
Gravel wrote:
The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut...

The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut the rides by half, it’d just be a question of how many riders could a team support full time vs number of part time riders for the same pile of $.

And pro sports shouldn’t be a jobs program anyway. Should we have 3, 4, maybe 5 regional 250 champions? Then everyone could have a factory ride! I can hear it now: “I’m the upper Midwest national SX 250 national champion!

That’s kinda what an East or West coast regional championship looks like now.. it dilutes the meaning of a championship.. 

 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
"The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders." Okay, so why aren't the 450...

"The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders."

Okay, so why aren't the 450 teams running 3-4 factory riders under their tents? 

 

Star does, KTM did up until this year. Honda has done it, Kawi, etc

 

2
Sully
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11/29/2023 7:22pm
soggy wrote:
How many jobs are we realistically talking about… 20?   in my opinion they should make the 250 a national title 12-14rounds. The teams can decide...

How many jobs are we realistically talking about… 20?

 

in my opinion they should make the 250 a national title 12-14rounds. The teams can decide which rounds they want the riders to race with a few being required for everyone to race (triple crowns) and final. 

LungButter wrote:
Well, you could probably cut the Star, Pro Circuit and maybe some other teams in half.  So all those riders, mechanics and probably some other support...

Well, you could probably cut the Star, Pro Circuit and maybe some other teams in half.  So all those riders, mechanics and probably some other support staff, done.

Then you gotta consider teams that only race one coast like TiLube, AEO, Solitaire etc. etc. are those teams gonna go full time or they just gonna pack it in?

I agree that the 250 class is a little "broken" but I don't know that just shit canning the regional parts of it is the correct answer.

Savatgy had plenty of time in the 250 class, do we really need to change everything to let him back in?

Gravel wrote:
The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut...

The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut the rides by half, it’d just be a question of how many riders could a team support full time vs number of part time riders for the same pile of $.

And pro sports shouldn’t be a jobs program anyway. Should we have 3, 4, maybe 5 regional 250 champions? Then everyone could have a factory ride! I can hear it now: “I’m the upper Midwest national SX 250 national champion!

That’s kinda what an East or West coast regional championship looks like now.. it dilutes the meaning of a championship.. 

 

The budgets would 100% increase, because all of the riders who would normally stay home during their off coast would have to hit all of the races. That means rider & mechanic salaries, airline tickets (x2), hotels (x2) and car rentals for an additional 9 or so rounds. You also have to factor in parts for the bike as well.

Like Mav said, if it didn't increase the budget, you'd see 450 teams with 3 - 4 guys on them just like the 250s do now.

1
Mit12
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11/29/2023 7:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/29/2023 7:28pm

All this is a complete joke! Joey has not won a 250 championship and he hasn’t dominated the 250 class. Letting him race the 250 SX class does not take a spot from another 250 SX rider as he was signed to race the 250 nationals and help develop the 450.    

12
Johnny Ringo
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11/29/2023 7:27pm
Mit12 wrote:
All this is a complete joke! Joey has not won a 250 championship and he hasn’t dominated the 250 class. Letting him race the 250 SX...

All this is a complete joke! Joey has not won a 250 championship and he hasn’t dominated the 250 class. Letting him race the 250 SX class does not take a spot from another 250 SX rider as he was signed to race the 250 nationals and help develop the 450.    

Tell that to a privateer he’d be taking a spot from

14
Pop Shmoke
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11/29/2023 7:32pm
Mit12 wrote:
All this is a complete joke! Joey has not won a 250 championship and he hasn’t dominated the 250 class. Letting him race the 250 SX...

All this is a complete joke! Joey has not won a 250 championship and he hasn’t dominated the 250 class. Letting him race the 250 SX class does not take a spot from another 250 SX rider as he was signed to race the 250 nationals and help develop the 450.    

Tell that to a privateer he’d be taking a spot from

The privateer could easily solve that problem by… beating him. 
 

Its not like they would look at the list of riders and pick one privateer and kick him out and install joey in his place. Joey has to qualify just like everybody else. If he qualifies he should be able to race. Isnt that what qualifying is for?

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Mit12
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11/29/2023 7:39pm

Tell that to a privateer he’d be taking a spot from

Triumph already hired him so how does he take a ride from a privateer? 

1
Johnny Ringo
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11/29/2023 7:43pm

Tell that to a privateer he’d be taking a spot from

Mit12 wrote:

Triumph already hired him so how does he take a ride from a privateer? 

A purse paying spot in the main event*

5
Sully
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11/29/2023 7:50pm

Tell that to a privateer he’d be taking a spot from

Mit12 wrote:

Triumph already hired him so how does he take a ride from a privateer? 

A purse paying spot in the main event*

That's fixable by doing what Pop said...beat him. 

4
FahQ
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11/29/2023 7:53pm

Make that 250 a 350 and run it in the 450 class....duh!

 

Johnny Ringo
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11/29/2023 7:55pm
Mit12 wrote:

Triumph already hired him so how does he take a ride from a privateer? 

A purse paying spot in the main event*

Sully wrote:

That's fixable by doing what Pop said...beat him. 

So we should change the rules to let a factory rider that has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in this sport drop down and take money out of the pockets of the guys in their vans 3 months behind on rent just trying to make a dollar in the regional class. Fuck them privateers, am I right? 

12
Gravel
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11/29/2023 7:57pm
LungButter wrote:
Well, you could probably cut the Star, Pro Circuit and maybe some other teams in half.  So all those riders, mechanics and probably some other support...

Well, you could probably cut the Star, Pro Circuit and maybe some other teams in half.  So all those riders, mechanics and probably some other support staff, done.

Then you gotta consider teams that only race one coast like TiLube, AEO, Solitaire etc. etc. are those teams gonna go full time or they just gonna pack it in?

I agree that the 250 class is a little "broken" but I don't know that just shit canning the regional parts of it is the correct answer.

Savatgy had plenty of time in the 250 class, do we really need to change everything to let him back in?

Gravel wrote:
The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut...

The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut the rides by half, it’d just be a question of how many riders could a team support full time vs number of part time riders for the same pile of $.

And pro sports shouldn’t be a jobs program anyway. Should we have 3, 4, maybe 5 regional 250 champions? Then everyone could have a factory ride! I can hear it now: “I’m the upper Midwest national SX 250 national champion!

That’s kinda what an East or West coast regional championship looks like now.. it dilutes the meaning of a championship.. 

 

Sully wrote:
The budgets would 100% increase, because all of the riders who would normally stay home during their off coast would have to hit all of the...

The budgets would 100% increase, because all of the riders who would normally stay home during their off coast would have to hit all of the races. That means rider & mechanic salaries, airline tickets (x2), hotels (x2) and car rentals for an additional 9 or so rounds. You also have to factor in parts for the bike as well.

Like Mav said, if it didn't increase the budget, you'd see 450 teams with 3 - 4 guys on them just like the 250s do now.

The current 250 riders and mechanics are all already getting paid, they just work part time. The bikes all exist, but they’d get more use so the parts would cost more, and you’re exactly right about travel expenses, they’d basically double. I just don’t think running a full SX season would cut the number of riders in half. It’d probably mean some reduction, but probably not half. And the bigger issue is why treat the pinnacle of our sport as a jobs program? It’s evolved way from its roots as a regional championship to allow privateers to save travel money, now we have full factory programs acting like an amateur series. 
 

Just my opinion, it’s worth exactly what you paid for it, lol!

1
JMR1976
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11/29/2023 8:03pm

Ride the 250 in the 450 class.

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8tensolutions
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11/29/2023 8:06pm
Gravel wrote:
The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut...

The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut the rides by half, it’d just be a question of how many riders could a team support full time vs number of part time riders for the same pile of $.

And pro sports shouldn’t be a jobs program anyway. Should we have 3, 4, maybe 5 regional 250 champions? Then everyone could have a factory ride! I can hear it now: “I’m the upper Midwest national SX 250 national champion!

That’s kinda what an East or West coast regional championship looks like now.. it dilutes the meaning of a championship.. 

 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
"The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders." Okay, so why aren't the 450...

"The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders."

Okay, so why aren't the 450 teams running 3-4 factory riders under their tents? 

 

Star does, KTM did up until this year. Honda has done it, Kawi, etc

 

Yep.....and the 450 riders at that level are much more expensive

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11/29/2023 8:24pm

This is Joey's job, this is how he earns a living. A pro rider's window of opportunity to make money is very short, therefore they should be allowed to race which ever class that suits their situation best.

Really a shit decision from up top. I hope they wake up.

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Sully
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11/29/2023 9:05pm

A purse paying spot in the main event*

Sully wrote:

That's fixable by doing what Pop said...beat him. 

So we should change the rules to let a factory rider that has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in this sport drop down and take...

So we should change the rules to let a factory rider that has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in this sport drop down and take money out of the pockets of the guys in their vans 3 months behind on rent just trying to make a dollar in the regional class. Fuck them privateers, am I right? 

They don't need to change the rule, they already did. Now they're just being selective about who it applies to.

@Gravel do you think these riders & mechanics are going to do roughly twice the amount of races for the same amount of money?

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11/29/2023 9:36pm
cameron96 wrote:
90% of fans want to see Joey race 99% want to see a Triumph race   math is simple.  The racing will be better.  let him...

90% of fans want to see Joey race

99% want to see a Triumph race  

math is simple.  The racing will be better. 

let him race!

Triumph will be racing, without Joey

Yeah, but they would be racing closer to the front with Joey. The fact that other team managers were able to vote against his re-entry to the class is a problem.

While it may be an understandable business decision on their part, they shouldn't have the power to choose their competitors. 

The sanctioning body needs input from team managers to help improve the sport, but not on something like this. 

2
ohh_454
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Fantasy
11/29/2023 9:37pm

A purse paying spot in the main event*

Sully wrote:

That's fixable by doing what Pop said...beat him. 

So we should change the rules to let a factory rider that has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in this sport drop down and take...

So we should change the rules to let a factory rider that has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in this sport drop down and take money out of the pockets of the guys in their vans 3 months behind on rent just trying to make a dollar in the regional class. Fuck them privateers, am I right? 

Yaa, they’re only making a couple hundred to get into the main anyway it’s not like it’s a killing. Say that same privateer has a hellva night and wins the main, he’s still only making 6k in purse money. They could also just beat him like others have mentioned. 

2
11/29/2023 9:42pm
Would love to keep the 450 as the "premier class" and have some sort of age and championship limit. Just doesn't seem right guys coming into...

Would love to keep the 450 as the "premier class" and have some sort of age and championship limit. Just doesn't seem right guys coming into the class at 17 years old battling with guys 28+, nearly 10 years experience. 

Under current rules though he should be allowed back. 

Why? If the goal is to get to the 450 class, they'll be more prepared if they ride against some ex 450 riders. And if they can't beat ex 450 riders they have no business moving up to race against premier 450 riders. Better racing in the 250 class. You have riders that get lapped after half the race on a regular basis. Do you think those riders make for better racing? You have a certain # of riders that leave every year due to injury, non-performance, whatever. Initially they'll move down, but after a few years you'll again see a certain #or riders leave the circuit. And the fast kids will move up. Not as many kids will move up but the fast ones will. 

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2
11/29/2023 9:43pm

If the steering committee who Joey claims is the team mangers are not to rule on ama rules and exemptions , who would ?  Not sure a riders council would have any less biases than the team managers 

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1
11/29/2023 9:49pm
Mit12 wrote:
All this is a complete joke! Joey has not won a 250 championship and he hasn’t dominated the 250 class. Letting him race the 250 SX...

All this is a complete joke! Joey has not won a 250 championship and he hasn’t dominated the 250 class. Letting him race the 250 SX class does not take a spot from another 250 SX rider as he was signed to race the 250 nationals and help develop the 450.    

Tell that to a privateer he’d be taking a spot from

I like to see "privateers" do well. But being being a "privateer" doesn't guarantee you a spot on the line. Being faster does. Because you're 30 should not disqualify you from the spot if you're still faster. Besides that, didn't that privateer take the spot of another privateer?

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mb60
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11/29/2023 10:00pm

He could always race some arenacross races until outdoors start. Hard to feel sorry for the guy. 

2

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