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No you are!……..what are you, farking 5yo?
I m not the one complaining about not having 2 strokes, maybe you should read the posts on what they are about.
Anyone see where Burkeen is thinking about going back to 450's for next year?
Just the world according to mxb2.
If you haven’t run your own race series you can’t comment or criticise on other series; if you don’t have your own race team you can’t comment on or criticise how race teams are being run; if you don’t race professionally you can’t comment on or criticise other professional racers for decisions they make.
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250 2 stroke is the same HP or very close to the factory 250F's. Also a shitton cheap to build/maintain. Now who would that benefit?
They could make them 450cc fuel injected. I wouldn’t buy one. I can’t stand riding them LOL
A small handful of privateer pros.
So nobody would be hurt, correct? Seems like a no brainer to me.
Flip it around - why bother with a rule change if it has no material effect on anything? If those guys want to race cheaply they can already do it on a 125 or 250.
Except it helps them maybe qualify, they are getting help $ from people helping the cause, and many fans enjoy the underdog. That's why. You will most likely never see a 125 race because you can't even qualify being a very good racer with that butter knife.
By the way, it must actually have some type of material effect, because not only do they not change the rule, people like DC won't touch this post with a 10 foot pole. They could come and explain why, if there is a legitimate reason, but they won't.
Here's something to think about regarding this whole situation. Did the big 4 create their own demise in mx by creating rules that made it more likely to have companies that deal only in street, come into the sport? Not too many companies would have jumped into 2 strokes, I'd bet. Being 4 strokes, we now have a ton of companies. I'm loving it, for that part, for the sport. No one believed me when I said KTM would take over back in the day.
Not competitively.
Commenting, telling people how to spend their $$. 2 different things. Oh my bad, you are the new bandwagon guy on here, Foh.
It’s a production series. That, by default, requires a large degree of involvement and interaction with OEM’s which is exactly how it plays out. They have the biggest teams, they pay the biggest salaries and bonuses, they invest the most in the sport. Their investment extends to research, development, tooling and manufacturing facilities for the bike platforms that fit the class production rules.
Allowing alternative engine layouts that are potentially competitive with their own bikes has downside risk and no upside benefit to them. Worst case - in the effort to achieve parity the rules overshoot the mark and suddenly their production bikes are no longer competitive. Nearly as bad would be constant rule updates to ensure parity.
Let’s not forget that they still have to sell the bikes to race. If their investment in that is potentially at risk why would they even entertain discussion about such a rule change?
Saying things like “they should have spent the money to race” on a discussion forum is not telling someone how they should spend their money. It’s an abstract discussion between two unrelated parties.
Now if someone actually got hold of a team manager personally and started ranting or giving unsolicited advice that’s a different story.
If you can’t see the difference between those two scenarios I’m not sure what to say. This isn’t real life in here. In fact it’s about as far from real life as you can get - mostly anonymous people having hypothetical discussions about other people who get paid to participate in a recreational activity.
Anyone who gets genuinely annoyed/angry/upset/stressed about anything said on this forum really needs to take a reality check.
Oh and FWIW it looks like I’ve been on here longer than you.
If the 150cc and 300cc are too competitive, then they should come out and say it. We all know they aren't though. Back of the qualifying riders will ride them. What benefits can OEMs gain. Same as when the rules first came out. 4 strokes leading the way around the track against the biggest 2 stroke of that could pass the homologation rule, and still waxing it. It gains more credence when people say the tired line, 4 strokes are better. If they are better, that's what OEMs will gain. They can say it, loudly. We allowed the 2 strokes more cc's and they still are at the back of the pack.
Not sure what you are aiming for then? You say, and I agree, that even larger capacity two strokes are not going be competitive with four strokes. What's the point then?
If all you are seeking is some sort of statement from the OEM's you'll be waiting a long time.
Pit Row
The homologation rule is as clear as mud...
Both KTM and Yamaha have homologated two stroke models. They both have no problem selling them or their flagship 4t models.
As stated earlier, in other jurisdictions where equal displacement classes exist, there is no negative impact on sales, the top teams still choose to run 4t’s, and in most cases, they still dominate the results.
the ask should be for parity. CC to CC. why whine to be allowed to come in with a smaller dick?
If we can't even get 150cc and 300cc, making a statement like that just seems un-intelligent.
We've already told you about ten times. A couple guys would race a 150cc or 300cc and hope to qualify. The crowd enjoys it. Those riders get a little help from us, so they can get to races etc. No one will ride a 125 and 250 is barely enough. 150cc and 300cc get that little extra that will aide them. It doesn't negatively affect the OEMs or Pro Ama racing in any possible way. They can show off their beloved 4 strokes in the front.
I think even CC should be the goal. But the mfg’s would have a hissy fit for sure. You could have someone like Lapucci come over and run up front in the 250 class…. All hell would break loose.
No it wouldn’t, hasn’t happened anywhere else…..and by manufacturers, do you mean US based subsidiaries? Particularly US HRC?
But agree on equal CC. Still haven’t seen one good argument against it, other than Honda saying 20 years ago that they’d throw a tanty.
Hasn’t happened because the rules package keeps it from happening. Where it is allowed in the rules, it did happen. And by MFG’s, I mean everyone that doesn’t make a 2t anymore. Lapucci on the 2t beat Horgmo on the 4t and Horgmo is winning GP’s on the same 4t. It’s closer than most will admit.
even if you have an 8" wiener, your wife is gonna bitch about something else.
I meant ‘all hell breaking loose’ hasn’t happened where they’ve allowed equal displacement, and manufacturers who no longer have a 2t in those places haven’t taken their bat and ball and gone home either.
As for Lapucci, I have no doubt that he could run the pace on a 2t at some races, (not all). But when a 2t 250 has run up front and won the 250 class in Australia and Canada, the world hasn’t ended. What usually happens, is said rider is picked up by a factory team and put on a 4t.
It’s 20 years later, the moto world has moved on, 4t development has moved on, they’re way better now than when the rule was brought in. The gap between a 125 and 4t 250/ 2t 250 and 450 is much larger than it was back then. An even CC 2t vs 4t fight is reasonably fair now, with advantage still going to the 4t, especially with 2t mod restrictions, as is also the norm elsewhere.
It’s been shown time and time again that no one suffers from an equal displacement rule, but there are gains to be had, mainly for privateers, but also for attracting fans.
Still like to hear a good reason against, other than the usual paranoia. Love to hear a contemporary straight up interview with DC or the AMA on the subject.
Ok. I do think we see it similarly. I believe the reason they haven't fussed is that it is only EMX and not MX2. It's not on the biggest stage at this point. But. I'm also a realist and don't see it ever happening. It seems more likely that an organizing body will come together to create a class for organized 125/250 2t racing... But that seems highly unlikely too.
We're back to needing a 125 support class at all of the outdoors.
I'm with ya. The only problem is, is that the actual words out of Yamaha in the meeting regarding the rule changes that were being implemented after their 400 and then 426(?) We can't consistently beat the 250cc 2 stroke with less than a 450cc 4 stroke. It was Never a plan to have 2 competing bikes. It was always a plan to get rid of the 2 stroke.
Post a reply to: Hello DC and Pro Ama it's been 20 years now....