XC guys, how to fix a washy front end?

10/9/2023 5:50pm

Do not neglect tires. Usually run the Michelin SC5 Soft front, but when the tire goes, its done. Trying to stretch extra hours/rides out of a front tire is the stupidest thing I have done. Everyone loves to talk rear tires, but its the front that makes the huge difference.

1
wrc777
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10/10/2023 4:47am
wrc777 wrote:
As a general rule I don't brake on roots or try to turn too hard on them, but I am not that fast so maybe I...

As a general rule I don't brake on roots or try to turn too hard on them, but I am not that fast so maybe I am missing something there. Some tires are more a problem on roots than others. If you think about it there isn't much of a contact patch on a root unless you run really low tire pressure and then the tire sucks everywhere else. What tires and pressures were you running?

I think the previous gen (2016-2022) KTMs have a bucking bronco problem on roots and rocks in general no matter the suspension setup. As much as people complain about the new chassis it is a lot better with that for me.

Marty1028 wrote:

Just cheap tusk EMEX tires combined with tubliss. Running the front at about 10psi, rear about 8.

I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk front tire did you run?

 

I have watched a few videos of the course. Wish I could have made it because it looked really good.

ando
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10/10/2023 6:20am
wrc777 wrote:
I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk...

I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk front tire did you run?

 

I have watched a few videos of the course. Wish I could have made it because it looked really good.

Tubliss is designed to run super low pressures.  I ran around 8-10 in my bike when I had the Tubliss kit on it.

wrc777
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10/10/2023 6:26am
wrc777 wrote:
I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk...

I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk front tire did you run?

 

I have watched a few videos of the course. Wish I could have made it because it looked really good.

ando wrote:

Tubliss is designed to run super low pressures.  I ran around 8-10 in my bike when I had the Tubliss kit on it.

Most tubliss guys seem to do more enduro/hard enduro/trail riding. This is the race in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_tax-ejIo

 

Lowering air pressure trades side bite for forward bite. That is usually a good trade on the back tire for slick and low-speed conditions. The front will probably want to wash out a lot more.

The Shop

Crossup
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10/10/2023 6:49am

Just curious, what tires are you running front and rear?

Marty1028
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10/10/2023 7:59am
wrc777 wrote:
I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk...

I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk front tire did you run?

 

I have watched a few videos of the course. Wish I could have made it because it looked really good.

ando wrote:

Tubliss is designed to run super low pressures.  I ran around 8-10 in my bike when I had the Tubliss kit on it.

wrc777 wrote:
Most tubliss guys seem to do more enduro/hard enduro/trail riding. This is the race in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_tax-ejIo   Lowering air pressure trades side bite for forward bite...

Most tubliss guys seem to do more enduro/hard enduro/trail riding. This is the race in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_tax-ejIo

 

Lowering air pressure trades side bite for forward bite. That is usually a good trade on the back tire for slick and low-speed conditions. The front will probably want to wash out a lot more.

Haha yep that was the one. I took off a few rows back in C Lite 14/21. Track was fun minus those damn roots everywhereLaughing I plan on hitting up IXCR Sunday. I think I’ll try 14 in the front and 12 in the rear if it don’t get to muddy this week. I do think my next step is a lighter rear spring and a Dal Soggio piston kit next.

wrc777
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10/10/2023 12:04pm
ando wrote:

Tubliss is designed to run super low pressures.  I ran around 8-10 in my bike when I had the Tubliss kit on it.

wrc777 wrote:
Most tubliss guys seem to do more enduro/hard enduro/trail riding. This is the race in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_tax-ejIo   Lowering air pressure trades side bite for forward bite...

Most tubliss guys seem to do more enduro/hard enduro/trail riding. This is the race in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_tax-ejIo

 

Lowering air pressure trades side bite for forward bite. That is usually a good trade on the back tire for slick and low-speed conditions. The front will probably want to wash out a lot more.

Marty1028 wrote:
Haha yep that was the one. I took off a few rows back in C Lite 14/21. Track was fun minus those damn roots everywhere I plan...

Haha yep that was the one. I took off a few rows back in C Lite 14/21. Track was fun minus those damn roots everywhereLaughing I plan on hitting up IXCR Sunday. I think I’ll try 14 in the front and 12 in the rear if it don’t get to muddy this week. I do think my next step is a lighter rear spring and a Dal Soggio piston kit next.

What tires are you running? T-35? I should be at IXCR Sunday. Row 9 two rows back from you. I will warn you IXCR courses get really rough due to higher turnout.

Sideways91
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10/10/2023 12:17pm

I tend to run more sag offroad.. .but thats just personal preference.

The 4cs is a problem. They're just a bad design as others have stated.

WP CC forks, 08-15 sx i believe, and 08-14 xc . I would imagine could be gotten pretty cheap these days and they are very very good forks that I feel a lot of people sleep on, I'm not sure what axle is on your bike, I know the Husky 2015s went to the small front axle.

PTshox
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10/10/2023 12:20pm

Again - dump the 4cs internals. They suck badly imo. I tired to get around it and mod them. Open chamber mods, etc... no shot at getting them to work in a "good" fashion. 

Replace them.... 6500 kit, Lucky..etc. Anything but what's in them stock. It's that much of a difference. Amazing they even spec'd that fork on that bike. Sad actually. We as consumers didn't deserve that harsh of a treatment by a OEM. It was actually abusive of them to take our money and hand us a bike with those on it imo. I certainly wouldn't treat a customer that way. 

Marty1028
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10/10/2023 12:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/10/2023 12:23pm
wrc777 wrote:
Most tubliss guys seem to do more enduro/hard enduro/trail riding. This is the race in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_tax-ejIo   Lowering air pressure trades side bite for forward bite...

Most tubliss guys seem to do more enduro/hard enduro/trail riding. This is the race in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds_tax-ejIo

 

Lowering air pressure trades side bite for forward bite. That is usually a good trade on the back tire for slick and low-speed conditions. The front will probably want to wash out a lot more.

Marty1028 wrote:
Haha yep that was the one. I took off a few rows back in C Lite 14/21. Track was fun minus those damn roots everywhere I plan...

Haha yep that was the one. I took off a few rows back in C Lite 14/21. Track was fun minus those damn roots everywhereLaughing I plan on hitting up IXCR Sunday. I think I’ll try 14 in the front and 12 in the rear if it don’t get to muddy this week. I do think my next step is a lighter rear spring and a Dal Soggio piston kit next.

wrc777 wrote:
What tires are you running? T-35? I should be at IXCR Sunday. Row 9 two rows back from you. I will warn you IXCR courses get...

What tires are you running? T-35? I should be at IXCR Sunday. Row 9 two rows back from you. I will warn you IXCR courses get really rough due to higher turnout.

Yeah the T-35 soft/intermediate. Last IXCR race I did was mission impossible. Talk about a slick day. Still debating if I show up or not if I fix my seals in time, if im there look for number 378 with pink backgrounds and RMATV on the shrouds.

wrc777
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10/10/2023 1:00pm
Marty1028 wrote:
Haha yep that was the one. I took off a few rows back in C Lite 14/21. Track was fun minus those damn roots everywhere I plan...

Haha yep that was the one. I took off a few rows back in C Lite 14/21. Track was fun minus those damn roots everywhereLaughing I plan on hitting up IXCR Sunday. I think I’ll try 14 in the front and 12 in the rear if it don’t get to muddy this week. I do think my next step is a lighter rear spring and a Dal Soggio piston kit next.

wrc777 wrote:
What tires are you running? T-35? I should be at IXCR Sunday. Row 9 two rows back from you. I will warn you IXCR courses get...

What tires are you running? T-35? I should be at IXCR Sunday. Row 9 two rows back from you. I will warn you IXCR courses get really rough due to higher turnout.

Marty1028 wrote:
Yeah the T-35 soft/intermediate. Last IXCR race I did was mission impossible. Talk about a slick day. Still debating if I show up or not if...

Yeah the T-35 soft/intermediate. Last IXCR race I did was mission impossible. Talk about a slick day. Still debating if I show up or not if I fix my seals in time, if im there look for number 378 with pink backgrounds and RMATV on the shrouds.

Mission Impossible was like ice on the hard pack this year.

Wolverine
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10/10/2023 2:02pm

Wrong tool and nothing short of a revalve and appropriate springs will deliver you a material result. Spent time Sunday on single track (Evart) aboard a '17 250SXF. In that environment it was dreadful.

Never brake on roots..

 

MudyIceMan
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10/10/2023 3:44pm

Balance is off with too much preload.  Try less rebound dampening in the forks is my opinion.  And then try putting the forks up higher in the triple clamps by a couple mm.

10/10/2023 6:25pm
wrc777 wrote:
I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk...

I haven't ran tubliss but those pressures sound really low. If you go too low the knobbies will fold over instead of digging in. Which Tusk front tire did you run?

 

I have watched a few videos of the course. Wish I could have made it because it looked really good.

ando wrote:

Tubliss is designed to run super low pressures.  I ran around 8-10 in my bike when I had the Tubliss kit on it.

yes but some tires suck at such low pressures, ie.. MX34 I have them with tubeless and at 10psi it was almost unrideable. 12.5-13 seems to be the sweet spot for them.

Titan1
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10/10/2023 8:34pm

Get rid of the 4cs forks…only solution.  Those forks are garbage…

Hcallz5
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10/10/2023 8:42pm

Get yourself a Bridgestone X31 tire with a Bridgestone heavy duty tube and 12 psi. Some MX tech lucky cartridges would really set it off. 

Gravel
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10/12/2023 8:09pm

Lower the front, raise the rear, either with bike setup or body position. If you chase bike setup, when it turns great, be careful at speed because the stability will be compromised. Body position makes a huge difference, put your nuts almost on the gas cap and keep them there for tight turns. My current favorite front tire for GPs and desert is the Goldentyre 216, 90/90 size. Dal Soggio sphere inserts are a great option, mine are setup just a little stiff (.52 springs, I’m 205) but they still absorb chop great, they do really good in bigger bumps and they’re really consistent/trustworthy. 

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