Does anyone here do their own suspension?

defeatist45
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Junior needs his 65 re-valved, but I can’t justify the cost when you can by the valve through race tech and get full support. What are the pitfalls I need to look out for and wher do I take the shock for nitrogen?

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10/4/2023 8:36am Edited Date/Time 10/7/2023 12:04am

I would recommend having it done professionally. It’s a huge liability to learn to do suspension on someone else’s bike, especially your son. A very simple snap ring is what holds your shock together, if that’s damaged while removing or not seated correctly when installed, it could be a serious issue

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Bruce372
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10/4/2023 11:44am

Yes I do my own suspension. 

If you are competent mechanic, there are plenty of resources to learn dis and reassembly.  A shock has a circlip and so does a piston so both can be done and both can be catastrophic if you are incompetent. 

One thing to consider is tools, using make shift tools can also be catastrophic to your pocket book, so it's an investment of both money and time,  however, with that investment comes learning and knowledge 

The hard part of suspension is selecting the shim settings, if you to the gold valve it takes that part out-of the equation.

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UGOTBIT
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Fantasy
10/4/2023 2:00pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2023 6:12pm

I’ve done some stuff, but by no means am I suspension tuner. The magic is in the valving, but with race tech you get support and suggested shim stack settings. 
 

Any local shop should be able to handle the nitrogen for you, I think I paid $20 to have a shock filled. 

1
10/4/2023 4:49pm

Forks are a good place to start as the home suspension tech. 

1

The Shop

defeatist45
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10/4/2023 5:00pm

Thanks guys

RussB
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10/5/2023 2:23am

I'm in the process of learning and have been doing more with my own stuff. Not touched valving yet but aim to in the future.

The Race Tech Suspension Bible book has been awesome and pretty much all I've needed to get started. Combine that with a few tools and you will be swapping springs, seals and bushes in no time. 

A decent level of mechanical competence and also a good level of patience helps, but it's not overly difficult. 

Any local suspension shop will do the Nitrogen for you for not a lot of money.

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FGR01
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10/5/2023 8:48am

Like changing tires, learning to do your own suspension, at least rebuilds/service, saves a ton of money and keeps you roosting a lot more and a lot longer.   Motocross, in general, requires a pretty good level of mechanical know-how to participate.  If you are totally reliant on shops to do all your maintenance you better be independently wealthy or you'll go broke in this sport.   Doing your own seals and bushings on forks costs about $50 in parts and oil versus paying someone $200-$400'ish.  You have to buy a cap wrench and a seal driver but those are more than paid for in 1-2 times doing it yourself.   Not to mention, half the shops working on dirt bikes are hacks that will mess your stuff up and they for sure will not take the time and care on your stuff that you will.  

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Sandusky26
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10/5/2023 2:13pm

You tried Total Control in Burlington? 

FWYT
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10/5/2023 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 10/5/2023 2:45pm

I do my own suspension work and if I can do it, you can do it.

As far as things to look out for, along with a couple specialty tools, the fact is, it does just get a little messy. Be prepared for that. Have plenty of towels and something like a plastic tray that you mix concrete in will be a big help. I picked up a roll of some sort of cheap construction type of paper at Home Depot and I put that down on the workbench and floor before I start. That makes up clean up way, way easier.

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defeatist45
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10/5/2023 3:49pm
Sandusky26 wrote:

You tried Total Control in Burlington? 

I have ridden their stuff before in the past, and it was great. They would be who I go with if I have it done. It’s just the cost man. It’s not cheap, and if I can save a few hundred by doing it on my own, that’s probably what I do. I know the sport costs money, just trying to save some of it.

Nairb#70
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10/6/2023 12:44pm

 It depends what you mean by "do your own suspension". That takes on a huge variety of things, from rebuiling stock, to revaving and modifying?

Kidkawie
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10/6/2023 11:21pm

How much can really be tuned on a 65?   I thought the shock was a sealed unit?

Thumpertalk had a suspension forum.  Do alot of reading and learn what the components are and what they do.

Ask other 65 owners what they've done.

10/7/2023 5:23am

if you are doing gold valves, then you can forget that part as it comes with instructions buddy, i'm far from a suspension guy but i do service a few sets a month, as i do a bit of cerakoting and part a few bikes on ebay etc and like to sell them ready to roll, i bought a set of gauges and no loss chuck line from the states many years ago, and a big bottle of n2 from my local supplier, even if i was just doing my own shocks for riding ie regular servicing, it would of more than paid for it self long long time ago, if its costs you want to cut, suspension tools will be the biggest cost saver over the long run, there is plenty of info in the oem manuals, vids, etc, take your time, get the right basic tools, be super clean, take pics every step along the way, i've found that using the correct cst oil makes a big difference also a lot of shops here wont just fill a shock after you rebuild your self incase you have put the spring clips wrong as said above, 20190513 143340

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OwenJakes
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10/8/2023 4:17pm

Nitrogen in the shock is not "necessary" either. I get moving pretty good and just use air and cannot tell a difference.

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Kidkawie
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10/8/2023 11:57pm
OwenJakes wrote:

Nitrogen in the shock is not "necessary" either. I get moving pretty good and just use air and cannot tell a difference.

And you wont unless you can feel the 22% of other gasses in the air besides the nitrogen we breathe.

Been using a $20 mtb pump for years, they come with a lossless chuck installed.

1
10/11/2023 6:53am

The big advantage to nitrogen is the molecules are bigger than others in the air so they don’t permeate through rubber as quickly. In theory, nitrogen should maintain a consistent pressure for longer than air, but there’s other variables involved. If you have a schrader valve you can check regularly, air should be fine. 
 

One thing though, you should try to put whatever gas you’re using in from an air compressor rather than a direct pump. You’re squishing about 2 liters of air down to get atmosphere to 175 psi in the bladder. Any water vapor is going to condense in the pressure vessel. That would be a tank on an air compressor or the bladder if you go direct. I wouldn’t want even a minimal amount of water in the shock from that. 

Kidkawie
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10/11/2023 2:41pm
The big advantage to nitrogen is the molecules are bigger than others in the air so they don’t permeate through rubber as quickly. In theory, nitrogen...

The big advantage to nitrogen is the molecules are bigger than others in the air so they don’t permeate through rubber as quickly. In theory, nitrogen should maintain a consistent pressure for longer than air, but there’s other variables involved. If you have a schrader valve you can check regularly, air should be fine. 
 

One thing though, you should try to put whatever gas you’re using in from an air compressor rather than a direct pump. You’re squishing about 2 liters of air down to get atmosphere to 175 psi in the bladder. Any water vapor is going to condense in the pressure vessel. That would be a tank on an air compressor or the bladder if you go direct. I wouldn’t want even a minimal amount of water in the shock from that. 

Unless you have a filter, water/oil separator on your compressor you will introduce far more contaminates than a couple pumps of fresh air with a mtb pump.  Not to mention, most compressors are limited to 110-120psi.  My shocks get 154.

The nitrogen opinion is one of those discussions that turns into splitting hairs.  Its nonsense.  At the end of the day your ass will never tell what gas is in your shock.

1
10/11/2023 6:12pm
The big advantage to nitrogen is the molecules are bigger than others in the air so they don’t permeate through rubber as quickly. In theory, nitrogen...

The big advantage to nitrogen is the molecules are bigger than others in the air so they don’t permeate through rubber as quickly. In theory, nitrogen should maintain a consistent pressure for longer than air, but there’s other variables involved. If you have a schrader valve you can check regularly, air should be fine. 
 

One thing though, you should try to put whatever gas you’re using in from an air compressor rather than a direct pump. You’re squishing about 2 liters of air down to get atmosphere to 175 psi in the bladder. Any water vapor is going to condense in the pressure vessel. That would be a tank on an air compressor or the bladder if you go direct. I wouldn’t want even a minimal amount of water in the shock from that. 

Kidkawie wrote:
Unless you have a filter, water/oil separator on your compressor you will introduce far more contaminates than a couple pumps of fresh air with a mtb...

Unless you have a filter, water/oil separator on your compressor you will introduce far more contaminates than a couple pumps of fresh air with a mtb pump.  Not to mention, most compressors are limited to 110-120psi.  My shocks get 154.

The nitrogen opinion is one of those discussions that turns into splitting hairs.  Its nonsense.  At the end of the day your ass will never tell what gas is in your shock.

That’s fair. I got curious about it after I posted so I did a rough calc. It about 2 ccs of water if you pump an empty shock up. Not the end of the world, but probably not something you want in there if you’re really stretching out the service intervals. 

FWYT
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10/11/2023 8:14pm Edited Date/Time 10/11/2023 10:34pm

Hell, I use Argon from my TIG welder. Smile

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Richy
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10/13/2023 5:34am
FWYT wrote:
Hell, I use Argon from my TIG welder. 

Hell, I use Argon from my TIG welder. Smile

How do you reckon C02/Argon mix would work for us dirty MIG only peasants? 😂

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FWYT
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10/15/2023 12:39am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2023 12:39am
FWYT wrote:
Hell, I use Argon from my TIG welder. 

Hell, I use Argon from my TIG welder. Smile

Richy wrote:

How do you reckon C02/Argon mix would work for us dirty MIG only peasants? 😂

Don't see why it wouldn't work. Dry, inert.

1
10/15/2023 3:00am

from a bit of reading when i bought my bottles, i went with n2 rather than argon, one because its more expensive than n2 and because the volume of nitrogen changes very little compared with CO2 when the temperature changes, so as the shock gets hot the pressure inside it stays fairly constant. CO2, on the other hand, will try to expand a lot when heated, and so as the shock gets hot the pressure of gas inside will increase a engineering mate i have raced with for the last 20 years uses pure argon in his and swears by it, 

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