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I don't think just because you are getting tired that it means you need a 250. But at the same time, your issues might not just be from lack of seat time. 450s will strain you if you aren't flowing with the bike. Sometimes a passive way of riding them ends up being counter productive because if you aren't in attack position, initiating where you want the bike to go, the bike will sort of take you for the ride and that's when your arms get tired etc. Because you are using your arms more to sort of fight the bike. At least that's always been my experience with them. Also, tuning it down still doesn't account for the inertia of the bike, which makes it much more effort to turn and flick around (especially if you make a mistake etc.) So a 250 is a lot better in that case because it let's you be more aggressive with it and put it where you want it, without it fighting back too much. You will get better technique on a 250, there is no way around it. At the end of the day, it's your call.
I second this. I rode and raced 450s for over 10 years. I would ride my sons 250f and love the way it handled but just did not have the power I wanted. My 450s were fun until the track got really rough and/or I got tired. Definitely get fatigued much quicker on the 450. I tried a 350 a few years ago and figured out it is the perfect sized bike for me. Handles like a 250 with much more power and torque. Wish I had tried one years before but never did. Currently on a 23 350 and love it. I still can't believe Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki have not built one yet. Hopefully one day.
When i raced in the 90's , I rode 2 classes 125/250. I loved the 125 motos and dreaded the 250's. I was always getting into a whiskey throttle situation on the 250 in the whoops. Seemed like every track in the south wanted to be a SX track back then. Lots of whoops and gap doubles. Very technical and way less TT's than today. I had faster lap times on the 250 but felt terrible riding it. I would jump most anything on the 125 with confidence. Even tho it was easier to clear doubles and triples on the 250, I was hesitant and scared a lot. Nowadays, I love my YZ250F. Its the perfect bike for me. My BIL has a YZ450F that i can ride anytime. Its a nice bike , but i just dont like it as much. Much tougher to acclimate. Ill stick to my 250f from now on most likely.
Ive wondered about this. I just assumed a 350 had too much power. But im 5-9 and 205 w/gear. Sometimes my 250F feels slow coming out of a turn into a jump.
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Ive never spent much time on a 450, probably because everytime I rode one I didnt enjoy it at all. I knew they could take me for a ride so it made me timid the whole time. I currently ride a 125, but very much enjoyed the 250f I had. I can ride a 125 and 250f at a decent pace for me all day until my gas jug is empty. The smaller bore bikes allow me to ride even when Im getting tired because I can still pin it and not worry about whiskey throttle situations. They just handle better and feel more nimble too.
It has nothing to do with the power and all about how you are gripping the bike. Your body accepts and naturally regulates the forces a 450 musters up over time. If you are doing the right things such as gripping the bike, not riding over your head, and riding with a purpose you will learn to love the bike. Most people tend to lean towards the bike having a problem rather than themselves. Work on yourself first... after all it is the cheapest and will have the most benefits.
I second that on the other manufacturers making 350's. Just talking to the guys at the track I hear the same thing. If Yamaha and Honda made a 350 they would fly out of the dealers
It’s for sure more power than the 250f, but it’s a very rideable bike. Ride it just like a 2 stroke.
You are probably right a lot of the time with that.
That's definitely the story of my life right now, I suck on any bike yet my brain still says the 'perfect bike' that I will not suck on is out there... when I just need to put in the work 😂
Man I'll check out the G2 throttle tube. And I'm gonna try that 3rd gear technique. I usually corner in 2nd regardless of the corner but I'm gonna try 3rd and come in with a little more speed. Feather the clutch if I need to get the rpms up a bit on corner exit but seems like solid advice. I'll try it out!
Solid advice man. I honestly love my bike and a few months ago I was getting quite comfortable on the bike and was able to push and not feel like I was on the edge. Well the summer heat has been brutal this year and I haven't been riding much and when I do go ride I'm gassed after a few laps and my grip gets weak and the bike starts to ride me. But now with it starting to cool off and I get more seat time I will definitely focus more on gripping with my legs MORE OFTEN instead of just breaking bumps. Really need to grip with my legs under acceleration. I think that's the biggest key there. Take the load off my Arms where I'm not having to hang on for dear life
Thank you for the advice. I'm gonna ride it through the rest of the year and next year I'll be getting a 24 model. I'll decide then if I get another 450 or go back to a 250. But I need to really put a focus on technique instead of just trying to go as hard as I can
Sounds like the perfect plan. Good luck and hope you can get all squared away.
StegPegz for the win on arm fatigue. But use body positioning like Hughs recommends. Booty out and head fwd...pin it
I feel as though I am the exact opposite of everyone. For me to run the same pace on a 125/250f I have to work a lot harder than on my 450, especially on tighter tracks.
I'm 6, 240 , my main bike is a 20 YZ450 but I picked up an 18 YZ250F and it turned out to be the funnest bike to ride. Light,nimble and forces me to carry my momentum thru corners. If Yamaha ever makes a 350 they're going to kill it.
JMHO
What's weird is that's how I feel about my 450. I feel like I have to come in with a lot more roll speed because as soon as I get on the throttle in the corner it like upsets the bike and wants to stand up straight on me. I've heard the 2022 yz450 is more difficult to corner. I'm getting better and can carry some decent speed through ruts. But I can't rail ruts like I could on the 250. I felt "at one" with the 250 and could go as fast as I wanted and push without feeling like I'm on the edge. But this 450 gives me arms pump after 2 laps then I'm just hanging on for dear life and not having fun. I wanna push myself. I can't do that on the 450. If my arms didn't pump up so much I could ride it so much better. I was even gripping with my legs more today and it gives me arm pump.
Same. In my 20s I was a pretty quick 250B riders and could hang with local A on a good day. Now I'm 32 and high C low B rider. 30+ is my go to class. I'm just getting so discouraged because I just can't find that comfort level I had on the 250. My arms pump up and I just end up riding trying to hang on for dear life instead of getting faster and trying to push. I ride mostly hard pack and we have a few loamy sand tracks which are great for the 450. But the hard pack tracks I struggle with. I just need to get 250. What bothers me the most is I see so many guys hailing the mail on 450s. If they can, why can't I? So it's a real hit to my ego knowing how much I struggle on the 450 to get comfortable
Pit Row
What’s a bigger hit to the ego, getting it handed to you from faster guys riding a 450 or you riding a 250 and being faster then the guys on a 450?
Fast guys are fast on either.
I understand that, but if he’s uncomfortable on a 450 he’s not going to ride to his potential like he might on a 250. Comfort is key to riding fast, look at Tomac when he’s uncomfortable and how he’s maybe a top 5 guy.
I'm with you man, a comfortable dude on a 250 has to be faster than a dude having to ride cautious or riding tight or exhausted for half the moto on a 450.
I just picked up a 450 to practice on, I’ll race my 250F. Not sure if that’s the right, but I feel if you ride the 450 correctly (roll speed, flow, etc) it will carry over to the 250F. There is a reason Star has their 250 guys on 450’s during the week. Just can’t fall into the lazy “point and shoot” 450 style of riding.
I'm guessing you have a 23 YZ 450 ? they are not confidence inspiring and tough to set up. I'm in the same boat as you. I took a trip over the bars also.......looking at 250 myself. (I'm 6'6" and rode sand so power is likely an issue)
Is it more tiring to rail a 250, or lug a 450?
are 450’s so easy to ride any No-talent-average-Joe can go fast on them, or so hard to ride that only a handful of riders in the world can ride them fast?
I’m admittedly in a different genre…but as an off-road racer (everything from hare and hounds and hare scrambles, to GP’s and enduros) the 450 is my go-to bike…250’s just don’t have the top end speed or the low end grunt that I like/need.
Every 250 I’ve ever ridden had me always looking for one more gear…and I never have that experience on a 450…they go plenty fast for me.
I love how light 250’s are…but the power delivery on modern 450’s are so user friendly that they almost feel slow sometimes…again, off-road, could be different on a moto track…I never feel like they get away from me or are too much bike. And I’ll ride techy single track, to sand turn tracks, to wide open desert.
The people I struggling on 450’s try and ride them like 250’s…there is something very fun, uniquely challenging, and very pleasing about running a gear or two high and blowing past dudes wringing out 250’s and riding their butts off.
With that said, if I was a moto only guy, I could see the appeal of a 250 (two or four stroke), but I think I’d come back to a 450.
I found that my 450 was letting me go faster then what my actual skill level was. The beginning of most practice days when I was fresh it wasn't a problem. But as the day went on, the more tired I got, the more my technique broke down I would get sketchy. I had a couple good get offs the end of last season that I was lucky to walk away from. Parked the 450 and got a 350 that I absolutely love. I'm riding the bike, it's not riding me
I see what you are saying here. Star has the 250 riders on 450s without a clutch, to practice roll speed and flow. And I do agree that it does carry over to any bike. But that is also still pro riders who are skilled enough to ride any bike, anyways. I'm not totally sure that exactly applies to the average rider/vet rider who is struggling and getting tired on a 450. I still think the positives outweigh the negatives for that person to hop on a 250F and work on overall technique, with confidence etc.
Star may also be trying to save money by having guys practice on 450s. A pro level 250f engine needs torn down every few hours. That engine likely has some expensive parts in it, and it would be pretty expensive to be doing rebuilds every couple of days for 4-6 riders.
A top level 250 rider is probably not going to struggle with a 450 anyway and controlling the extra engine inertia will make the 250 seem a lot lighter and more maneuverable on race day.
Last part of your post is where my thinking is at. I’m not a pro, but can get around pretty good. Practice on the 450 and the 250 will feel like a pit bike (while still keeping proper technique).
Post a reply to: The ol 250 vs 450 talk