Triumph 250 missed opportunity?

JBen23
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Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know it looks like they are using a KTM like engine but still.  
 

I thought I read somewhere that the patent was up on the yzf intake but maybe not.  

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endurox
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8/24/2023 1:47pm

There are probably 1000 plus  F-1 engineers in England. Triump has a gold mine in it's backyard to resource.

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burn1986
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8/24/2023 1:53pm
JBen23 wrote:
Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know...

Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know it looks like they are using a KTM like engine but still.  
 

I thought I read somewhere that the patent was up on the yzf intake but maybe not.  

Good question. The YZF 250 is reportedly very fast for the field. Deegan and Cooper have had no problems getting to the front. Hunter has had to be almost perfect to catch them.

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soggy
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8/24/2023 1:57pm
endurox wrote:

There are probably 1000 plus  F-1 engineers in England. Triump has a gold mine in it's backyard to resource.

I think those engineers make way more than triumph would pay. And what do they know about Mx bikes. 

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Lightning78
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8/24/2023 2:24pm
JBen23 wrote:
Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know...

Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know it looks like they are using a KTM like engine but still.  
 

I thought I read somewhere that the patent was up on the yzf intake but maybe not.  

burn1986 wrote:
Good question. The YZF 250 is reportedly very fast for the field. Deegan and Cooper have had no problems getting to the front. Hunter has had...

Good question. The YZF 250 is reportedly very fast for the field. Deegan and Cooper have had no problems getting to the front. Hunter has had to be almost perfect to catch them.

I have a theory about riders on the most powerful best bikes in amateurs and in the 250 pro class.....

Most of them don't do well when they move up bec they've had such an advantage and once the field is equalized, their true talent is exposed. 

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The Shop

endurox
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8/24/2023 2:56pm
endurox wrote:

There are probably 1000 plus  F-1 engineers in England. Triump has a gold mine in it's backyard to resource.

soggy wrote:

I think those engineers make way more than triumph would pay. And what do they know about Mx bikes. 

Thermodynamics

Just depends on how successful Triump wants to be is how much money they spend. 

Cosworth built a prototype single cylinder development engine that revved to 20,000 rpm and made alot of power several decades ago. A blank sheet of paper gives Triump a potential advantage.  Then Pay Jet 10 million a year and bingo, Triump gets into the record books.

SPYGUY
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8/24/2023 5:12pm

Stock KTM 250F has more horsepower and torque than the stock YZ250F, no?

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JBen23
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8/24/2023 5:20pm
SPYGUY wrote:

Stock KTM 250F has more horsepower and torque than the stock YZ250F, no?

It seems like there is more potential in the Yamaha once they are both highly modified.  I could be way off.

I was just talking at the pro level.  A stock 250f is more than enough for a lot of us.

 

yota
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8/24/2023 5:40pm

amazing how many on this forum think they know more than Triumph does without ever seeing the bike or its performance.

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Richy
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8/25/2023 5:05am
yota wrote:

amazing how many on this forum think they know more than Triumph does without ever seeing the bike or its performance.

I can't speak for the OP, but I think it's interesting that the talk of the 250 class (at least in the US and at times Europe) has long been that the Yamaha is the strongest in the engine department.

Obviously the most apparent difference is the head orientation.

It's just interesting that a team starting with the opportunity for a scratch-designed 250 mx engine would not look to the Yamaha for inspiration, fundamentally.

I don't think I know better than anyone but I do think it's interesting 🙂 I'm also optimistic it will be a solid engine package either way.

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8/25/2023 5:08am
JBen23 wrote:
Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know...

Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know it looks like they are using a KTM like engine but still.  
 

I thought I read somewhere that the patent was up on the yzf intake but maybe not.  

Can’t, Yamaha has a patent on it. Until it expires, nobody can copy it. 

2
8/25/2023 8:12am
JBen23 wrote:
Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know...

Why wouldn’t they have copied the yzf intake design?  With the 250 class relying more on horsepower this seems like a huge missed opportunity.  I know it looks like they are using a KTM like engine but still.  
 

I thought I read somewhere that the patent was up on the yzf intake but maybe not.  

UpTiTe wrote:

Can’t, Yamaha has a patent on it. Until it expires, nobody can copy it. 

I know that this is true.   Cannondale and another brand also made reversed engines  or applied for patents. ATK bought Cannondales patent .  Husaberg or one of the smaller brands like that. I remember hearing about them since a friend and I had been talking about how we would build an engine if we designed one for a dirtbike. And when  those engines came out we were talking about how much they were like what we had talked about.

 I found an article MXA did  on engines like the Yamaha and there were a bunch more than I thought there were.  Even an Ossa 2 stroke with the pipe  where the airbox normally goes. A lot of prototypes. Mostly older bikes are shown in that MXA article. But they do have some modernish stuff too.

I am surprised at how many times the backwards cylinder  engine has been tried. Maybe Yamaha has the the only design that works well locked up with their patent's ? 

https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxas-history-of-reverse-cylinder-engine-…

HS_Hasbeen
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8/25/2023 9:02am

Remember how bad those first few years of Yamaha were with the new engine platform? Perhaps Triumph wants something they know will work day 1 rather than chase setup for years like Yamaha did?

 

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