Under-insured Riders

f4ctry
Posts
144
Joined
8/18/2009
Location
AU
12/23/2009 1:59am
Good read this

I live in NZ where we have free health care and got out of hospital yesterday...I spent 2 nights in there with a spider bite that was turning very nasty, blood posioning was setting in and it was nasty.

I went to my local emergency room and they put me on a drip for 2 hours and did it every day for 4 days till I had to be admitted into hospital. I really didnt want to go....the whole thing cost me less than $75.

$50 for after hours service at a private hospital (ACC which is the government branch which pays for healthcare paid the difference)

$14 for 2 weeks of medication.,..also sunsidised by ACC.

I have also got 3 more visits with a nurse to clean the wound before i go away but as long as i need the visits, they are there for me.

We have free healthcare in New Zealand, and for the neysayers out there, it works. I had 2 specialists see me and treat me, as well as drs and nurses come and look after me....I had a great team getting me better and no point did i have a crappy dr or nurse
johansen
Posts
551
Joined
10/30/2009
Location
MG
12/23/2009 3:22am
FYI, Christian has insurance. But the deductible and % that they don't cover is astronomical with an accident like this... I'm guessing half a million bucks...
FYI, Christian has insurance. But the deductible and % that they don't cover is astronomical with an accident like this... I'm guessing half a million bucks retail?
Also, with free insurance (Canada) you also get crappy doctors. Don't believe me? Talk to someone that came to the States from there to see a specialist.
Finally, I love bvm111. Preach on, brother.
Crappy doctors? You can't find those in USA? I don't know, in Sweden we have free healthcare and I havent had any problems (2 femur breaks). We have a choice, if we want to pay for a "better" docotor we can.
ImTheDude
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318
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8/20/2008
Location
Brookville, PA, USA
12/23/2009 3:49am
Good healthcare is only for the rich,... is C.C. rich?

/sarcasm


The "Greatest" country in the world can't take care of its own?
It's time we quit being so fucking greedy and figure out for proper health care for everyone.
ando
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4433
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Location
Perth, AU
12/23/2009 5:17am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:35pm
I live in Canada but was born in Australia and lived my whole life there until recently. I have to say that I believe Australia has the best of both worlds.

There is a pretty good national healthcare system for which everyone contributes through the taxation system. If you have elective surgery there can be a waiting period but for non-elective treatment you can get covered straight away. Includes doctors, hospital, emergency treatment etc.

However if you want to pay extra you can purchase pretty good private health insurance which means avoiding waiting times and your choice of doctor and hospital. Top level health insurance is not that expensive - for a family you can get high level cover for about $2000-$3000 per year. Many companies offer subsidies to the premiums (employers are not allowed to run their own health insurance programs). Also legislation prevents private insurance from covering 100% of all costs, so there is always some to pay out of pocket (I believe part of the reason for this is to prevent frivolous use of tests for no reason).

I did my ACL five years ago. Total cost to me for the surgery, consulations and rehab was about $500.

I have to admit that I find the attitude about not wanting to pay for someone else's mistake somewhat confusing (or maybe disturbing?).

Socialism? Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word society...

The Shop

M-M
Posts
2138
Joined
11/20/2008
Location
GB
12/23/2009 5:25am
GuyB wrote:
My suggestion? Stop riding until you can get some insurance.
TerryK wrote:
Or move to Canada. Tongue
Or the UKTongue
ando
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4433
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Location
Perth, AU
12/23/2009 5:34am
GuyB wrote:
My suggestion? Stop riding until you can get some insurance.
TerryK wrote:
Or move to Canada. Tongue
M-M wrote:
Or the UKTongue
Or Australia Wink
txmxer
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9770
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Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
12/23/2009 5:38am
interesting thread.

Does anyone think the US health insurance and healthcare system is just fine as is? Ping? BVM? Anyone?
c3011
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631
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Location
Perrysburg, OH, USA
12/23/2009 6:12am
I just wonder if our new government heath care will cover MX racing or will the government regulate coverage of MX injuries?
Highsider
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Location
Way Toasty, IA, USA
12/23/2009 6:19am
Thanks dirty and born2slow for your stories. I have BCBS and plan to add a supplementary plan, to cover the gaps.

Jimi J
12/23/2009 6:25am
TerryK wrote:
Or move to Canada. Tongue
751 wrote:
Everyone in Canada is covered 100% on health insurance by the government, correct? But you guys just pay alot more for eveything else right? Please correct...
Everyone in Canada is covered 100% on health insurance by the government, correct? But you guys just pay alot more for eveything else right? Please correct me if Im wrong.
They still pay for it one way or another. A lot of Canadians come to the US to get fixed up if that tells you anything about how great it is.
12/23/2009 6:38am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2009 6:40am
FYI, Christian has insurance. But the deductible and % that they don't cover is astronomical with an accident like this... I'm guessing half a million bucks...
FYI, Christian has insurance. But the deductible and % that they don't cover is astronomical with an accident like this... I'm guessing half a million bucks retail?
Also, with free insurance (Canada) you also get crappy doctors. Don't believe me? Talk to someone that came to the States from there to see a specialist.
Finally, I love bvm111. Preach on, brother.
If his personal expense reaches $500K his insurance sucks. If it reaches 50K his insurance sucks. If it reaches $25K his insurance sucks. Hell even if he has to pay more than $10K out of his own pocket his insurance sucks. He could have a $2500 deductible and 20% up to $20K and it would be $4500.

For those of you riding without insurance or are under insured, you are nucking futz.


Oh ya Jack Schitt, is your wife Jane? Are your kids, Dunno, Fullof, and Dip?
Skywagon
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53
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Location
Saint Charles, IL, USA
12/23/2009 6:57am
c3011 wrote:
I just wonder if our new government heath care will cover MX racing or will the government regulate coverage of MX injuries?
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed appropriate - like CO2 emitting MX riding (or other "high risk" activies like Scuba Diving, Snowmobiling, Private Aviation, Hunting/Shooting - all of my favorite things).

A great card to have if you want to control other agendas. All in the name of "society shouldn't have to pay for these high risk activities" - yet somehow fat couch potatoes, smokers, druggies, abortions, and illegals will be managed to be covered "by society".
txmxer
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Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
12/23/2009 7:08am
c3011 wrote:
I just wonder if our new government heath care will cover MX racing or will the government regulate coverage of MX injuries?
Skywagon wrote:
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed...
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed appropriate - like CO2 emitting MX riding (or other "high risk" activies like Scuba Diving, Snowmobiling, Private Aviation, Hunting/Shooting - all of my favorite things).

A great card to have if you want to control other agendas. All in the name of "society shouldn't have to pay for these high risk activities" - yet somehow fat couch potatoes, smokers, druggies, abortions, and illegals will be managed to be covered "by society".
do they limit coverage for high risk in countries with socialized medicine or single payer systems?

Just curious if that actually happens in any other country or if it's just fear mongering.
12/23/2009 7:09am
Its not just dirt bike guys that don't have the right kind or enough insurance. Even NASCAR guys like Ernie Ervan had the same problem.
Fracture10
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4
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Location
Winnipeg, CA
12/23/2009 7:16am
The real deal in Canada is healthcare is universal which basically means everybody gets looked after no matter income level, employment status etc. The bad part is that we pay higher taxes to fund it, so its not really "free". Our wait times can be long and the Physicians are maybe not as "motivated" to get business as its constantly coming thru the door. Innovation also is a problem in Canada as its very expensive to have the latest and greatest. The issue with having "bad doctors" is more of a problem of training and that exists on both sides of the border, although because Canada has a bit of a shortage of docs, we tend to get some goof balls. When it comes down to it, if you have a real medical emergency, you will get looked after quickly and with latest that Canada has to offer. The waits really kick in with the non emergent cases and elective cases.
The real question is would you rather wait 6 months to get your shoulder or knee fixed with 2008 as opposed to 2010 equipment or would you rather run the risk of being financially ruined for the rest of your life because of a medical emergency that may or may not ever happen? Riding or racing without really good health coverage is a huge gamble in my opinion! The other thing that concerns me is all the funds being set up for all these injured riders. I know that nobody wants to be in that situation and I do wish all a speedy recovery but by donating to their rehab and medical bills aren't you basically giving them universal healthcare?
I think both systems have merit and really a combination of both would be ideal but.........
My 2 cents
Deetsmx
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Location
Visalia, CA, USA
12/23/2009 7:21am
I think taking care of the lawyers and lawsuits would take care of a lot of problems with overpriced healthcare in the US.
Sandberm
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5845
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Location
Pasco, WA, USA
12/23/2009 7:38am
c3011 wrote:
I just wonder if our new government heath care will cover MX racing or will the government regulate coverage of MX injuries?
Skywagon wrote:
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed...
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed appropriate - like CO2 emitting MX riding (or other "high risk" activies like Scuba Diving, Snowmobiling, Private Aviation, Hunting/Shooting - all of my favorite things).

A great card to have if you want to control other agendas. All in the name of "society shouldn't have to pay for these high risk activities" - yet somehow fat couch potatoes, smokers, druggies, abortions, and illegals will be managed to be covered "by society".
Thats what Im worried about too Skywagon.

Also from a cost standpoint, to those that are chiming in from Canada, Sweden, New Zealand and Australia. How much free health care do you guys give to illegal aliens? If you had a large illigal immigrant population I would think that would greatly increase the taxes you pay for your free health care.
12/23/2009 7:50am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:35pm
jdj727 wrote:
I get a kick out of it when guys say I dont want to pay for your mistake. Its so easy when its not you but...
I get a kick out of it when guys say I dont want to pay for your mistake. Its so easy when its not you but I am sure you do stuff that cost me. Also Hospitals have Ins that cover stuff like no ins dont think it comes out your pocket...maybe if they made ins more affordable for people who worked an are also legal citizens. No illegal should be able to walk into any hospital and get treated. I would love to see a guy who make 25 bucks a hour in this day afford a house, wife, kids and ins trust me I make more then that and there is no way... so tell me why is Ins so much. Shit my Kaiser sucks and this stuff free through work you think I would pay for it....2 months to tell me I tore my acl please..
Based on what you're saying 60% of our citizens don't own a house, have kids and have insurance because 60% don't make that much. Even as a household it is over 50% don't make 52k a year.




Larry
Posts
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Location
Fayetteville, GA, USA
12/23/2009 7:52am
Deetsmx wrote:
I think taking care of the lawyers and lawsuits would take care of a lot of problems with overpriced healthcare in the US.
Thats a cloaking device that the Insurance companies and their supporters love to throw out there.

I have a question, why should there be fine print in our insurance policies?
Larry
Posts
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Location
Fayetteville, GA, USA
12/23/2009 7:53am
bvm111 wrote:
For all of you that want "free" health care... you are perfectly allowed under the constitution I have sworn to defend for nearly 20 years to...
For all of you that want "free" health care... you are perfectly allowed under the constitution I have sworn to defend for nearly 20 years to renounce your American citizenship and become a citizen of any socialist country you wish... in fact you can feel free (pun intended)... in fact I will buy you a plane ticket and a swift kick in the ass on the way out!

Otherwise man up and take responsibility for your own choices to participate in your chosen past time and buy your own insurance and keep your hand out of my families pockets and expect someone else to take care of you and your own stupidity!!!

OK ill get off my soapbox… carry on!!!
Don't you get free healthcare?
ando
Posts
4433
Joined
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Location
Perth, AU
12/23/2009 8:25am
c3011 wrote:
I just wonder if our new government heath care will cover MX racing or will the government regulate coverage of MX injuries?
Skywagon wrote:
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed...
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed appropriate - like CO2 emitting MX riding (or other "high risk" activies like Scuba Diving, Snowmobiling, Private Aviation, Hunting/Shooting - all of my favorite things).

A great card to have if you want to control other agendas. All in the name of "society shouldn't have to pay for these high risk activities" - yet somehow fat couch potatoes, smokers, druggies, abortions, and illegals will be managed to be covered "by society".
Sandberm wrote:
Thats what Im worried about too Skywagon. Also from a cost standpoint, to those that are chiming in from Canada, Sweden, New Zealand and Australia. How...
Thats what Im worried about too Skywagon.

Also from a cost standpoint, to those that are chiming in from Canada, Sweden, New Zealand and Australia. How much free health care do you guys give to illegal aliens? If you had a large illigal immigrant population I would think that would greatly increase the taxes you pay for your free health care.
Sandberm, you make a good point, illegal aliens are not a huge problem in Australia at least so I don't think they put an unnecessary burden on the healthcare system.

After all, it's not that easy to "walk" across the border into Australia!
txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
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Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
12/23/2009 8:30am
Skywagon wrote:
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed...
Exactly the primary concern. When the government gets control of the insurance system they may choose to deny coverage based on activities that are not deemed appropriate - like CO2 emitting MX riding (or other "high risk" activies like Scuba Diving, Snowmobiling, Private Aviation, Hunting/Shooting - all of my favorite things).

A great card to have if you want to control other agendas. All in the name of "society shouldn't have to pay for these high risk activities" - yet somehow fat couch potatoes, smokers, druggies, abortions, and illegals will be managed to be covered "by society".
Sandberm wrote:
Thats what Im worried about too Skywagon. Also from a cost standpoint, to those that are chiming in from Canada, Sweden, New Zealand and Australia. How...
Thats what Im worried about too Skywagon.

Also from a cost standpoint, to those that are chiming in from Canada, Sweden, New Zealand and Australia. How much free health care do you guys give to illegal aliens? If you had a large illigal immigrant population I would think that would greatly increase the taxes you pay for your free health care.
ando wrote:
Sandberm, you make a good point, illegal aliens are not a huge problem in Australia at least so I don't think they put an unnecessary burden...
Sandberm, you make a good point, illegal aliens are not a huge problem in Australia at least so I don't think they put an unnecessary burden on the healthcare system.

After all, it's not that easy to "walk" across the border into Australia!
especially with these guys guarding the perimeter:



grover738
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516
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Spring Grove, MN, USA
12/23/2009 8:38am
For those of you relying on AFLAC, be careful. I have a friend that snapped his Achille's Tendon when he over jumped a double (I tell him he underjumped the triple, but that's beside the point)

He missed a bunch of work, but had to go on medical leave and lost some income, which he tought would be covered by AFLAC. AFLAC found out he was riding, actually went the website of the track he was riding at, saw that there was a race that weekend, and denied his claim, even though he snapped it on Saturday (practice day) He's now fighting AFLAC, not sure if it's been resolved.

One question for all of you that are covered - What do you do with the forms that come about 2 months after you are injured, that ask about how you were hurt? The purpose of them is to allow the insurance company to sue someone to recover the money they spent fixing you up. I put 'em straight in the shredder, and don't hear from them again. Anyone ever run into a situation where they HAD to fill one of these out? I never ever say I was riding if I can avoid it. Then again I've never crashed bad enough to leave in an ambulance.

Dirtysmile said it best - "Good luck and read the fine print on your policy, the insurance companies don't make their money by paying claims, they make it by collecting premiums and denying claims"
Jakes Dad
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Brooksville, FL, USA
12/23/2009 8:43am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:35pm
GuyB wrote:
My suggestion? Stop riding until you can get some insurance.
TerryK wrote:
Or move to Canada. Tongue
My neighbor had that lovely Government healthcare in Canada. He played amateur hockey, got a good slice across his forearm, by the time they got him through the "red tape" and into surgery all the nerve endings were dead and now he has a gimp of an arm!!

Not only do I have health insurance for my kid I also have a special rider on our auto policy for his bike which has extra for emergency room visit and if he had serious long term injury coverage for that.

People "parents" do need to be a little more responsible and investigate the "what if" scenerios.

How many here have read their health policy or even their home owners policy?
Regis
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Gonzales, LA, USA
Fantasy
12/23/2009 8:43am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:35pm
The simple truth is, there are loopholes within every insurance company for them to try to back out in paying. I have dealt with it all and my stomach turns reading all the stories above because thankfully, what I got stuck with was peanuts compared to some of the above.

This topic is very reason that caused me to hang up the boots from riding professionaly. I had Blue Cross, Kaiser, and some odd balls.. I tried to depend on the AMA's secondary insurance (naughton I believe?) and it was all such B.S. Even when I spent HOURS on the phone trying to make sure I disclosed everything I did, where I was doing it and begged to be able to pay for exactly the coverage I needed.

The bottom line is, if you do tell the insurance what you truly do for a living then you are considered "high risk" check out the premiums on that and with that policy you're restricted even more with "out of network" clauses, rules and stipulations. Aflec and the other insurances that "pay youto live whe your hurt" WILL NOT pay you if you ride pro, or are paid to ride, no matter what the person tells you that is selling your policy to you.

One more reason the riders need to think about a union. How come as a part time (desperately wanting to be full time) STUNTMAN I can get GREAT health care coverage through my union for my whole family for peanuts? I am still an indepedant contractor on the stuff I work on but I have people who are looking out for me. It baffles me. Stuntman and stuntwomen, who have a job to thrash themselves, get lit on fire, jump out of buildings and from cars on PURPOSE, get taken care of but the entertainers of our sport have no help when it comes to this.

How about Ryan Hughes? He paid HUGE money to have himself insured for millions for a career ending injury. Well it happened, he went to cash in on his policy which he did all the paperwork, had a written agreement with, paid thousands of dollars for and then they denied him. All for a concussion he had sustained years ago..> these people have people who's job it is to find a way NOT to pay. You can thank this very scenario for seeing Ryno on these KTM's for a couple years, had he not been denied he would have retired after that fatefull day at Steel City when he rode for Honda. Ryno did it right, Jimmy Button did it right, A lot of riders do it right but still have problems getting the bills paid.

Insurance companies suck, You rarely get taken care of in the time of need and as a racer I understand why some think they are covered in the worst situations.
12/23/2009 8:51am
Many insurance policies do state coverage differences for sports related injuries and for engaging in professional sports activities. If you don't understand the fine print and you are relying on the insurance coverage, I suggest you get someone that does understand it to go over your coverage with you.

You might want to ask someone that works in the back office of your family doctor to go over your coverage with you, The people that file the claims can usually break down the coverage into something you can understand.

Risk protection is also available for those that race in professional motorsports. Many of the pro's also purchase this kind of coverage (through Petersen/Lloyds) for disability protection. But its not cheap, and many MX riders will not find a way to pay for it so they are riding with the risk of financial ruin if they end up with a career ending injury.



Regis
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2769
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Location
Gonzales, LA, USA
Fantasy
12/23/2009 8:54am
Many insurance policies do state coverage differences for sports related injuries and for engaging in professional sports activities. If you don't understand the fine print and...
Many insurance policies do state coverage differences for sports related injuries and for engaging in professional sports activities. If you don't understand the fine print and you are relying on the insurance coverage, I suggest you get someone that does understand it to go over your coverage with you.

You might want to ask someone that works in the back office of your family doctor to go over your coverage with you, The people that file the claims can usually break down the coverage into something you can understand.

Risk protection is also available for those that race in professional motorsports. Many of the pro's also purchase this kind of coverage (through Petersen/Lloyds) for disability protection. But its not cheap, and many MX riders will not find a way to pay for it so they are riding with the risk of financial ruin if they end up with a career ending injury.



yeah, see my above post bud, They will find a way to weasel out of paying. I had a family friend lawyer look over my stuff, it came ot a point where I knew in a catastrophic incident I would have been financially ruined but I paid the most I could for the best I could.
Devil1nNj
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Hewitt, NJ, USA
12/23/2009 8:54am
As a small business owner with a wife and no children, and 2 full time employees, I have spent over $40k in the last 5 years on Oxford Health Insurance.

The first property I purchased was 92k
Do the math "freedom" lovers.
Our Health care is Fd 6 ways from Sunday, if you don't think so, you don't pay outta pocket for it. This has nothing to do with not loving your country, it has everything to do with fixing a
major problem.
txmxer
Posts
9770
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Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
12/23/2009 9:01am
Devil1nNj wrote:
As a small business owner with a wife and no children, and 2 full time employees, I have spent over $40k in the last 5 years...
As a small business owner with a wife and no children, and 2 full time employees, I have spent over $40k in the last 5 years on Oxford Health Insurance.

The first property I purchased was 92k
Do the math "freedom" lovers.
Our Health care is Fd 6 ways from Sunday, if you don't think so, you don't pay outta pocket for it. This has nothing to do with not loving your country, it has everything to do with fixing a
major problem.
nobody responded to my question earlier.

I agree with you. The system has some significant flaws.

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