03 RM250 troubleshooting

2TYam27
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Weatherford, TX, USA
Edited Date/Time 6/6/2012 6:58am
I am trying to help my uncle fix his bike and not having much luck. I decided it was time to see if you all could help. I apologize for such a long post.

I went with him to look at this used 03 RM250 two stroke. I noticed it was running rich on the bottom but figured it was probably as simple as jetting. You could run it through the gears at wide open throttle then turn around to come back, and it would be loaded up again. It clears out at wide open throttle but loads back up when you let off for any amount of time. He liked the bike and it seemed like a great bike other than that so he bought it. The bike appears to be bone stock other than a pro circuit pipe and silencer. My Uncle is a beginner level rider so he was fouling plugs right away. Pulling the carb off revealed that it had stock jetting. I know it should run fine and not load up on stock jetting but decided to try leaning it out with the main jet. I ended up with it being to lean per a plug check but still loading up on the bottom. I tried lowering the pilot jet and raising the main jet but nothing fixed it. The float height was set with the float slightly below level, with the bottom of the carb, when the needle came in contact with the seat while holding the carb upright. He did not ride it hard and it was a little bit better so he rode it this way and simply cursed it every time he had to push it back to the truck.

I then decided it must be sucking tranny oil through the right side crank seal. So I put new crank seals in it without splitting the cases and put a new top end in it while I was there. It still did the same thing. One thing I noticed while putting it together was that I had to twist the rubber exhaust pipe mount (lower) to make it fit. Otherwise, it was to long. I thought maybe it had the wrong pipe mount but I compared it to another bike with a stock exhaust pipe and it was the same. This makes me think it has the wrong pro circuit pipe and maybe that is causing it. However, the pipe fits great other than that, and it is definetely a 250 exhaust pipe so I doubt that is the problem. I played with the jetting a bit more as well at this time and we had it to where it did not foul plugs, but still loaded up on the bottom slightly. He rode it for a while like this.

It got worse and started fouling plugs so I decided the only thing left was that it had to be leaking between the cases. So I split the cases the other day and inspected the gasket and did not see any signs of it sucking oil into the crankcase so I do not think that is the problem. I did notice that the cranshaft will slip right into the right side case by hand. It feels tight when it is in there but I think they are supposed to be pulled into the bearing and not simply slip right in? I had another bike with the crankshaft the same way and it did not have this same loading up problem so I do not think that is the problem but could be I guess.

Keep in mind, each paragraph or attempt to fix it above happened months apart and the bike was being ridden between so that rules out a gas problem. He is running Silkolene Comp 2 premix at 40:1. I am starting to think it must be in the carb like maybe it is a stuck float or a leaking needle and seat but shouldn't it be overflowing with gas? It is not. I have inspected the carb many times and do not see any problems. I have completely run out of ideas. Any suggestions? Thank you for taking the time to read this and for any suggestions you might have.
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12/14/2009 4:09pm Edited Date/Time 12/14/2009 4:10pm
Have you tried starting the bike when the engine is stone cold without pulling the enrichener? If the bike starts without the enrichener, then you might be leaking fuel past the enrichener valve. Perhaps there is a piece of crud in it, or the seal on the bottom of the enrichener plunger is worn out/grooved/dry rotted. Also if the bike was perviously ridden in sandy conditions, the enrichener plunger bore can get worn out...allowing the seal to move around. I've even seen enrichener plungers seize up from corrosion, and then the pull knob will slip on the shaft..makes you think it's working when it isn't.

If the enrichener is leaking, the engine will run exactly as you describe.
2TYam27
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12/15/2009 6:47am
Have you tried starting the bike when the engine is stone cold without pulling the enrichener? If the bike starts without the enrichener, then you might...
Have you tried starting the bike when the engine is stone cold without pulling the enrichener? If the bike starts without the enrichener, then you might be leaking fuel past the enrichener valve. Perhaps there is a piece of crud in it, or the seal on the bottom of the enrichener plunger is worn out/grooved/dry rotted. Also if the bike was perviously ridden in sandy conditions, the enrichener plunger bore can get worn out...allowing the seal to move around. I've even seen enrichener plungers seize up from corrosion, and then the pull knob will slip on the shaft..makes you think it's working when it isn't.

If the enrichener is leaking, the engine will run exactly as you describe.
I actually had a vintage bike with too short of a plunger in it and it did the same thing, but I had not even thought of that on this bike. So, I got excited thinking maybe that was the problem. I cannot try to start it since it is torn apart, but I did inspect the choke. The plunger is long enough and functions properly. The seal looks okay but I guess it could be bad. Maybe I should replace it just to be safe?
Kinetic1
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12/15/2009 9:29am
You never mentioned changing the pilot jet? It could be that simple. If it was fine in the middle to upper rpm ranges and only loaded up on the bottom try leaning out the pilot.

The Shop

12/15/2009 12:34pm
Have you tried starting the bike when the engine is stone cold without pulling the enrichener? If the bike starts without the enrichener, then you might...
Have you tried starting the bike when the engine is stone cold without pulling the enrichener? If the bike starts without the enrichener, then you might be leaking fuel past the enrichener valve. Perhaps there is a piece of crud in it, or the seal on the bottom of the enrichener plunger is worn out/grooved/dry rotted. Also if the bike was perviously ridden in sandy conditions, the enrichener plunger bore can get worn out...allowing the seal to move around. I've even seen enrichener plungers seize up from corrosion, and then the pull knob will slip on the shaft..makes you think it's working when it isn't.

If the enrichener is leaking, the engine will run exactly as you describe.
2TYam27 wrote:
I actually had a vintage bike with too short of a plunger in it and it did the same thing, but I had not even thought...
I actually had a vintage bike with too short of a plunger in it and it did the same thing, but I had not even thought of that on this bike. So, I got excited thinking maybe that was the problem. I cannot try to start it since it is torn apart, but I did inspect the choke. The plunger is long enough and functions properly. The seal looks okay but I guess it could be bad. Maybe I should replace it just to be safe?
Well if it is leaking you could try pushing down on the plunger and see if the problem persists (once you reassemble the bike). Also, does the powervalve function correctly?

My last suggestion would be to take the stator, CDI box and coil to your local suzuki dealer and have them checked. It is possible (however unlikely) that you might have weak spark at low RPM, which would result in poor combustion and loading up.
12/15/2009 12:54pm
Replace every single o-ring, rubber component in the carb. Needle and seat as well. Set float height to specs, not by eye. Replace reeds.
lumpy790
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12/15/2009 4:53pm
Cracked reeds?
rallendude
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12/15/2009 6:28pm
I had a crf250 do this once. I bet I spent 30 or 40 hours on that bike. It turned out to be the nozzle that the main jet screws into had a groove worn in it from the needle sliding up and down in it.

Also had a cr85 do it once too. The 85 has a small collar that goes in before the nozzle that keeps the vacuum from sucking fuel past at idle.
2TYam27
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12/16/2009 7:12am
Thanks guys! I will check all this out as I am going back together with it. As I mentioned in the first post, the crankshaft slides right into the right side bearing. I would like to fix that but I do not have a manual to see what the crankshaft specs are. Dont the manuals tell you how big the end of the crankshaft should be? Does anyone have the specs? I may have to break down and buy a manual.
lumpy790
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12/17/2009 6:24am
Once the crank heats up it will expand and seat with the bearing. I knew a top engine builder who would sand the ends of the crank till it would just slide in.
mill2
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12/17/2009 5:46pm
Get a 4-stroke
RACEGUY
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Moncton, CA
12/17/2009 7:43pm
Thanks for that "mill2"

You have proven yourself a fucking asshole.

You should have nothing left to prove in your jerked off little life.

Feel Fulfilled???
mill2
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12/18/2009 5:21am
Clam down hot rod (raceguy) We are friends (2tyam27 and I) that is the only reason I said something....... See location

And yes I do feel fulfilled!!
bobtsfishin
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1/15/2010 11:55am
I have an 03 with smiliar issues. I talked to Kehnin and the recommended I replace the carb slide with a larger cut out. I went from a 6.5 to a 7.0 and it made a huge difference and now it doesn't load up on the bottom end. SST exhaust 170 main 45 pilot std clip position.
89'cr dude
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1/15/2010 4:26pm
this sounds like my friends 1997 yz80. that thing only had a power band on top, and it loaded up everywhere else, so my friend took the carb apart, cleaned it, adjusted it, and it ran a little better, but then it started doing it again. I think worn needle, or reeds, so thats what i would recommend to you too.
2TYam27
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1/29/2010 4:30pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2010 4:38pm
I have an 03 with smiliar issues. I talked to Kehnin and the recommended I replace the carb slide with a larger cut out. I went...
I have an 03 with smiliar issues. I talked to Kehnin and the recommended I replace the carb slide with a larger cut out. I went from a 6.5 to a 7.0 and it made a huge difference and now it doesn't load up on the bottom end. SST exhaust 170 main 45 pilot std clip position.
I got it back together last weekend and tinkered with it a bunch. I tried changing the slide but it did not make much difference (I borrowed a 01 RM250 that is somewhat of a junker and does not run right either but had a 7.0 slide in it. I even tried the whole carb off of it without much change but that carb could be jacked up to.). It has a pro circuit pipe and it is jetted exactly as pro circuit says at this point except the power jet is a 48 instead of a 50 (I think). All the research I have done says the jetting on these bikes was terrible but I cannot imagine Suzuki selling a bike that runs this bad. There has to be something wrong but I dang sure have not found it.
2TYam27
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1/29/2010 4:34pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2010 4:36pm
89'cr dude wrote:
this sounds like my friends 1997 yz80. that thing only had a power band on top, and it loaded up everywhere else, so my friend took...
this sounds like my friends 1997 yz80. that thing only had a power band on top, and it loaded up everywhere else, so my friend took the carb apart, cleaned it, adjusted it, and it ran a little better, but then it started doing it again. I think worn needle, or reeds, so thats what i would recommend to you too.
I am thinking about trying reeds, float valve and maybe a needle. I have always heard of reeds being a possible problem, when a bike has problems, but have never actually seen it myself. They are definetely not cracked or chipped.
CamP
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1/29/2010 5:55pm
Clay, I think you have an ignition problem.
bd
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1/30/2010 1:47am
I have a brand new JD Racing ignition for a 2003 RM 250 for sale.
2TYam27
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1/31/2010 9:00pm
CamP wrote:
Clay, I think you have an ignition problem.
Maybe so. I wanted to try the ignition off the 01 but they appeared to be completely different setups.
2TYam27
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1/31/2010 9:01pm
bd wrote:
I have a brand new JD Racing ignition for a 2003 RM 250 for sale.
How much do you want for it? Is it a complete system or what is included?
CamP
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1/31/2010 9:39pm
From the looks of the parts fiches, 2003 and 2004 shared similar ignition components. There's gotta be someone around here that has some that you could use for testing. In the mean time, what are you using for plugs? How do all the connections and grounds look?
89'cr dude
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2/1/2010 2:49pm
get the specs for the ignition from your local dealer, I needed specs for an 83' cr250, so i rolled down to MATT'S HONDA, and they copyed it right out of their 1983 service manuel!
2TYam27
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2/1/2010 4:16pm
CamP wrote:
From the looks of the parts fiches, 2003 and 2004 shared similar ignition components. There's gotta be someone around here that has some that you could...
From the looks of the parts fiches, 2003 and 2004 shared similar ignition components. There's gotta be someone around here that has some that you could use for testing. In the mean time, what are you using for plugs? How do all the connections and grounds look?
He is running a BR8eg. I am not sure that I have had all the connectors apart. That might be worth checking but I still think it is fuel because I can turn the gas off and it runs great. So I still think it is flooding. I need to try that again. The only hard part about that is you do not know if it is running great because the carb is out of gas or if it is running great because it is not flooding. I think it immediately ran better so I bet it is the latter. I think the carb on my 05 YZ250 is the same and I know it works fine so I am thinking about throwing his jets in my carb and try it out. Thanks for the help!
CamP
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2/1/2010 7:10pm Edited Date/Time 2/1/2010 7:12pm
I would try the 05 YZ carb's float, inlet needle and seat.
2TYam27
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2/1/2010 8:51pm
CamP wrote:
I would try the 05 YZ carb's float, inlet needle and seat.
Do you think it would be a bad idea to try the whole carb with his jets? How do you get the seat out? When looking at the carb, I wondered if the seat would come out and if it had an o-ring around it. I thought maybe the o-ring was leaking if it has one but I was not sure how to get it out.
2/1/2010 9:18pm
CamP wrote:
I would try the 05 YZ carb's float, inlet needle and seat.
2TYam27 wrote:
Do you think it would be a bad idea to try the whole carb with his jets? How do you get the seat out? When looking...
Do you think it would be a bad idea to try the whole carb with his jets? How do you get the seat out? When looking at the carb, I wondered if the seat would come out and if it had an o-ring around it. I thought maybe the o-ring was leaking if it has one but I was not sure how to get it out.
I'd try the whole carb. Same displacement, similar power, engine design, etc. Not likely they'll be really far apart when it comes to fuel needs.
CamP
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2/1/2010 9:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/1/2010 9:34pm
I agree, just bolt the 05 carb on and see how it works. I would also try swapping the 05 float/needle/seat to the 03 carb if you think the bike is flooding Pull off all your vent hoses and blow them out with compressed air to make sure nothing is plugged.
2TYam27
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2/2/2010 6:51am
Thanks! I will try that this weekend.
donMX14
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2/7/2010 12:53pm
air filter? air screw? how far out is the air screw? both my rm's ran 45-48 pilots depending on weather. i've also had a bent choke rod. it would not go in all the way causing problems.

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