Stark Vargs (as in plural)

RACING
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7/30/2023 2:11am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 2:12am
What type of track was it or tracks?    What happened when they overheated ?  Some more info would help  . If it was a deep...

What type of track was it or tracks?    What happened when they overheated ?  Some more info would help  . If it was a deep sand track, loam, hardpack, fast wideopen, slower tighter track?  And was it overheating on riders of all skills or  just on some riders? Or on a certain track or condition? 35C is 95F  so thats on the hotter side of temps.  How did the Gas bikes do that they had alongside the Vargs? Any of those overheat or have issues?   

I want to know the good and bad about these bikes. I believe that an Electric powered MX bike can be everything that they want the Varg to be at some point  , if the varg is falling short in some areas now.

If its overheating on a deep sand track after a 25 minute Pro moto in 35c/95F weather  , that's not as much of a problem as if its doing that on a hardpack trail ride with a beginner on a cool day.  I hope that these are isolated issues and they are able to fix them. The earlier EMX bikes will  not be for everybody. Knowing where it works well and not so well will help make sure people who buy them understand what limits they may have. They may be non issues for many people or deal breakers.   

Mike said most of it. They had three guys riding, Yann Guédard, chief of their test staff, former pro in his fifties who describes himself as an "average regional level racer" is the only one who can go 40 mns on the battery. The two faster guys, Dorian Martinez, a good National racer, and Arnaud Tonus, former GP and AMA, go through it in 25mns. They tested in Spain by 35° celsius on hardpack and both of them had overheating problems as the day went on. The bikes did 3/4 laps and went in security mode, with just enough power to ride back to the paddock. One of their four bikes also had a specific mechanical with the engine cutting.

So right now, the bike is faaaaast, but it's obviously not for any sort of pro racing (let alone off road).

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#434
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7/30/2023 5:44am
What type of track was it or tracks?    What happened when they overheated ?  Some more info would help  . If it was a deep...

What type of track was it or tracks?    What happened when they overheated ?  Some more info would help  . If it was a deep sand track, loam, hardpack, fast wideopen, slower tighter track?  And was it overheating on riders of all skills or  just on some riders? Or on a certain track or condition? 35C is 95F  so thats on the hotter side of temps.  How did the Gas bikes do that they had alongside the Vargs? Any of those overheat or have issues?   

I want to know the good and bad about these bikes. I believe that an Electric powered MX bike can be everything that they want the Varg to be at some point  , if the varg is falling short in some areas now.

If its overheating on a deep sand track after a 25 minute Pro moto in 35c/95F weather  , that's not as much of a problem as if its doing that on a hardpack trail ride with a beginner on a cool day.  I hope that these are isolated issues and they are able to fix them. The earlier EMX bikes will  not be for everybody. Knowing where it works well and not so well will help make sure people who buy them understand what limits they may have. They may be non issues for many people or deal breakers.   

RACING wrote:
Mike said most of it. They had three guys riding, Yann Guédard, chief of their test staff, former pro in his fifties who describes himself as an...

Mike said most of it. They had three guys riding, Yann Guédard, chief of their test staff, former pro in his fifties who describes himself as an "average regional level racer" is the only one who can go 40 mns on the battery. The two faster guys, Dorian Martinez, a good National racer, and Arnaud Tonus, former GP and AMA, go through it in 25mns. They tested in Spain by 35° celsius on hardpack and both of them had overheating problems as the day went on. The bikes did 3/4 laps and went in security mode, with just enough power to ride back to the paddock. One of their four bikes also had a specific mechanical with the engine cutting.

So right now, the bike is faaaaast, but it's obviously not for any sort of pro racing (let alone off road).

Were they using the full power setting? 25 min at pro speed at 35 degrees is pretty respectable.

I‘d like to see them dialing down the power to a point where the bike can do 30+2 and then compare the lap times and overall laps the bike did to a regular bike. Or to simplify it: just race the damn thing at a national series in Europe. 

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RACING
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7/30/2023 5:54am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 6:51am

They used the 60hp at full power.

Respectable or not, 25mn is not enough for a pro race, neither in France, US or MXGP.

Would like to see how long it lasts with a top rider in Lommel. 

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soggy
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7/30/2023 6:24am
Goldmember wrote:
Evidence slowly accumulates. Stark has lied through their teeth about the Varg being The Best MX Bike Ever. It's obvious now, even to the swingers, that...

Evidence slowly accumulates.

Stark has lied through their teeth about the Varg being The Best MX Bike Ever. It's obvious now, even to the swingers, that the battery is half the size needed for Pro MX.

Cue a 70 lb weight increase and a $7000 price hike so it can run the 40 minutes or so, a red flag restart needs?

 

You work in the oil industry or something?

 

’best’ is subjective. And if you could comprehend words and sentences you would know that they set out to build the best bike ever (like every manufacturer).  That doesn’t mean they did or will. Just like Yamaha, Kawi, ktm, Honda. Etc..

for some people it surely is the best bike. And they’ve done some cool things like being able to order the bike with suspension set for your weight, super light tubes. Optional hand rear brake. 

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The Shop

djr
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7/30/2023 6:29am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 6:30am
RACING wrote:
They used the 60hp at full power. Respectable or not, 25mn is not enough for a pro race, neither in France, US or MXGP. Would like...

They used the 60hp at full power.

Respectable or not, 25mn is not enough for a pro race, neither in France, US or MXGP.

Would like to see how long it lasts with a top rider in Lommel. 

25 minutes quoted is on brand new bikes, the range can only get worse as the battery ages, it won't get better.

If a gas bike will only do 25 minutes, you can just fit a slightly bigger tank for a few hundred £/$/€ , what can you do with an ebike to increase the range , for this sort of money ?

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RACING
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7/30/2023 6:54am

Hmmmmmnothing.

 

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RACING
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7/30/2023 7:23am

There's also an important point that Guédard from MV pointed out (he's not the first one): "Most tracks don't provide electricity, and you need to rely on a generator. So much for environment."

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RACING
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7/30/2023 11:05am
soggy wrote:
You work in the oil industry or something?   ’best’ is subjective. And if you could comprehend words and sentences you would know that they set...

You work in the oil industry or something?

 

’best’ is subjective. And if you could comprehend words and sentences you would know that they set out to build the best bike ever (like every manufacturer).  That doesn’t mean they did or will. Just like Yamaha, Kawi, ktm, Honda. Etc..

for some people it surely is the best bike. And they’ve done some cool things like being able to order the bike with suspension set for your weight, super light tubes. Optional hand rear brake. 

As of now, it's clearly the fastest playbike in the world.

Laughing

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#434
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7/30/2023 11:27am
soggy wrote:
You work in the oil industry or something?   ’best’ is subjective. And if you could comprehend words and sentences you would know that they set...

You work in the oil industry or something?

 

’best’ is subjective. And if you could comprehend words and sentences you would know that they set out to build the best bike ever (like every manufacturer).  That doesn’t mean they did or will. Just like Yamaha, Kawi, ktm, Honda. Etc..

for some people it surely is the best bike. And they’ve done some cool things like being able to order the bike with suspension set for your weight, super light tubes. Optional hand rear brake. 

RACING wrote:
As of now, it's clearly the fastest playbike in the world.

As of now, it's clearly the fastest playbike in the world.

Laughing

How fast? Were the guys faster on them than on their normal bikes?

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#434
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7/30/2023 11:29am
RACING wrote:
They used the 60hp at full power. Respectable or not, 25mn is not enough for a pro race, neither in France, US or MXGP. Would like...

They used the 60hp at full power.

Respectable or not, 25mn is not enough for a pro race, neither in France, US or MXGP.

Would like to see how long it lasts with a top rider in Lommel. 

Were the batteries to 100% AND fully cooled down before the did the long motos?

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RACING
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7/30/2023 12:08pm

Fully charged, yes. For the rest, I don't know, to read the full test, I'd have to buy the magazine...

There's another thing I wonder: one of the bikes had a malfunction with the engine going on and off. It ended up cutting on a jump (which the guys said is actually less scary than with an ICE as there is way less inertia). The Stark guys took out the bike, but what happens if an actual buyer ever has a mechanical of some sort, the Stark staff not being there next to him? Does he send the bike back to Spain? 

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#434
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7/30/2023 12:34pm
RACING wrote:
Fully charged, yes. For the rest, I don't know, to read the full test, I'd have to buy the magazine... There's another thing I wonder: one...

Fully charged, yes. For the rest, I don't know, to read the full test, I'd have to buy the magazine...

There's another thing I wonder: one of the bikes had a malfunction with the engine going on and off. It ended up cutting on a jump (which the guys said is actually less scary than with an ICE as there is way less inertia). The Stark guys took out the bike, but what happens if an actual buyer ever has a mechanical of some sort, the Stark staff not being there next to him? Does he send the bike back to Spain? 

I ask again: how fast were the bikes in comparison? You seem to only point out the negatives of the test.

They‘re building up a dealer network. So it would work like every other bike that breaks.

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RACING
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7/30/2023 12:42pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 1:43pm

I already answered. And Mike also said what they liked. It's difficult to ignore all four bikes had issues during the day.

Hadn't heard or read about the dealerships, good to know. BTW, if my ICE cuts out, I know what to check, what to look for, and there's a good chance I know how to fix it myself. Worst case scenario, at least I'm able to understand what a mechanic tells me. With an electric bike, I'd have to start again from zero.

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swordfish
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7/30/2023 3:03pm
RACING wrote:
Fully charged, yes. For the rest, I don't know, to read the full test, I'd have to buy the magazine... There's another thing I wonder: one...

Fully charged, yes. For the rest, I don't know, to read the full test, I'd have to buy the magazine...

There's another thing I wonder: one of the bikes had a malfunction with the engine going on and off. It ended up cutting on a jump (which the guys said is actually less scary than with an ICE as there is way less inertia). The Stark guys took out the bike, but what happens if an actual buyer ever has a mechanical of some sort, the Stark staff not being there next to him? Does he send the bike back to Spain? 

#434 wrote:
I ask again: how fast were the bikes in comparison? You seem to only point out the negatives of the test. They‘re building up a dealer network...

I ask again: how fast were the bikes in comparison? You seem to only point out the negatives of the test.

They‘re building up a dealer network. So it would work like every other bike that breaks.

Well what are ya gonna do when there were so many negatives? Pretend shit didn’t happen? 

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mike44
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7/30/2023 4:09pm
RACING wrote:
Fully charged, yes. For the rest, I don't know, to read the full test, I'd have to buy the magazine... There's another thing I wonder: one...

Fully charged, yes. For the rest, I don't know, to read the full test, I'd have to buy the magazine...

There's another thing I wonder: one of the bikes had a malfunction with the engine going on and off. It ended up cutting on a jump (which the guys said is actually less scary than with an ICE as there is way less inertia). The Stark guys took out the bike, but what happens if an actual buyer ever has a mechanical of some sort, the Stark staff not being there next to him? Does he send the bike back to Spain? 

#434 wrote:
I ask again: how fast were the bikes in comparison? You seem to only point out the negatives of the test. They‘re building up a dealer network...

I ask again: how fast were the bikes in comparison? You seem to only point out the negatives of the test.

They‘re building up a dealer network. So it would work like every other bike that breaks.

Maybe....maybe not. take your chance if you want for me the technology is not mature.

This company is brand new in the industry and seems to me like this "new fashion woke eco friendly start up ponzi scheme".

But  i really hope i am wrong  for the people who bought it.

Even without any problem 25 to 40 minutes ride is a no go for me....i take my car for sunday riding go to the track, play 2x15 minutes...and after what ? 

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RACING
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7/30/2023 4:22pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 4:29pm

Anyway, if you order one today, you'll get it in 2025, so it'll probably have gotten better by then -if the company's still around.

Wink

At least, those who had some questions about taking a Varg offroading in the woods now have the answer: no way.

Or for less than an hour.

And don't get stuck in a mud bog: it's overweight and overheats.

 

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RACING
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7/30/2023 4:27pm
mike44 wrote:
Maybe....maybe not. take your chance if you want for me the technology is not mature. This company is brand new in the industry and seems to...

Maybe....maybe not. take your chance if you want for me the technology is not mature.

This company is brand new in the industry and seems to me like this "new fashion woke eco friendly start up ponzi scheme".

But  i really hope i am wrong  for the people who bought it.

Even without any problem 25 to 40 minutes ride is a no go for me....i take my car for sunday riding go to the track, play 2x15 minutes...and after what ? 

You gotta love the eco-friendly biodegradable skid plate that doesn't pollute mother nature should you ever lose it.

It truly deserves a marketing BS gimmick award.

Laughing

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OwenJakes
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7/30/2023 5:40pm

The level of damage control in here is worse than anything I think I've ever seen and I pay attention to american politics. 

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Goldmember
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7/30/2023 8:48pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 9:15pm
soggy wrote:
You work in the oil industry or something?   ’best’ is subjective. And if you could comprehend words and sentences you would know that they set...

You work in the oil industry or something?

 

’best’ is subjective. And if you could comprehend words and sentences you would know that they set out to build the best bike ever (like every manufacturer).  That doesn’t mean they did or will. Just like Yamaha, Kawi, ktm, Honda. Etc..

for some people it surely is the best bike. And they’ve done some cool things like being able to order the bike with suspension set for your weight, super light tubes. Optional hand rear brake. 

The Stark has failed abysmally to live up to its biggest claim: that is being The Best MX Bike Ever. It cannot get over the first hurdle they set, going the distance.

We need to have the Stark Nurembergs. Laughing

If you want to use Stark's lies about range as a metaphor for the entire EV industry's relentless over-hype, feel free.

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#434
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7/30/2023 10:33pm

I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload.

12E70F43-69F0-4261-B96D-1F75AB48235E.jpeg?VersionId=PkymZMd6f f2fRsJtHghUOAobnh

But don’t worry guys, they will sell a shit load of those things for one reason only: it’s the fastest bike around. Like it or not.

 

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Goldmember
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7/30/2023 10:47pm
#434 wrote:
I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload...

I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload.

12E70F43-69F0-4261-B96D-1F75AB48235E.jpeg?VersionId=PkymZMd6f f2fRsJtHghUOAobnh

But don’t worry guys, they will sell a shit load of those things for one reason only: it’s the fastest bike around. Like it or not.

 

The real tell about Stark's situation would be the $20 million emergency loan they recently negotiated after Eicher's $50 mil. buy out funds injection.

Selling a few fancy inner tubes and sending out a handful of trouble plagued machines to favourite sons isn't cutting it.

Image result for wheels falling off

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#434
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7/31/2023 12:33am
#434 wrote:
I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload...

I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload.

12E70F43-69F0-4261-B96D-1F75AB48235E.jpeg?VersionId=PkymZMd6f f2fRsJtHghUOAobnh

But don’t worry guys, they will sell a shit load of those things for one reason only: it’s the fastest bike around. Like it or not.

 

Goldmember wrote:
The real tell about Stark's situation would be the $20 million emergency loan they recently negotiated after Eicher's $50 mil. buy out funds injection. Selling a...

The real tell about Stark's situation would be the $20 million emergency loan they recently negotiated after Eicher's $50 mil. buy out funds injection.

Selling a few fancy inner tubes and sending out a handful of trouble plagued machines to favourite sons isn't cutting it.

Image result for wheels falling off

Sure! They have to start ramping up production numbers and deliver faultless bikes or the lights could go out. We‘ll see..

Does anybody know if delivery dates (especially for guys who should receive their bikes in the next few weeks) have been pushed back? My delivery date (January) hasn’t moved. 

1
RACING
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7/31/2023 1:23am
#434 wrote:
I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload...

I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload.

12E70F43-69F0-4261-B96D-1F75AB48235E.jpeg?VersionId=PkymZMd6f f2fRsJtHghUOAobnh

But don’t worry guys, they will sell a shit load of those things for one reason only: it’s the fastest bike around. Like it or not.

 

What's the point of being the fastest if you can't finish a moto?

Sorry Moto Verte's test doesn't fully go the same way as the relentless propaganda we've had to endure here for months.

5
#434
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7/31/2023 1:55am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2023 1:57am
#434 wrote:
I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload...

I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload.

12E70F43-69F0-4261-B96D-1F75AB48235E.jpeg?VersionId=PkymZMd6f f2fRsJtHghUOAobnh

But don’t worry guys, they will sell a shit load of those things for one reason only: it’s the fastest bike around. Like it or not.

 

RACING wrote:
What's the point of being the fastest if you can't finish a moto? Sorry Moto Verte's test doesn't fully go the same way as the relentless...

What's the point of being the fastest if you can't finish a moto?

Sorry Moto Verte's test doesn't fully go the same way as the relentless propaganda we've had to endure here for months.

Think of your average moto customer: They want a fast and fun bike on which they’re faster than their buddys. They are also slower and less fit than the old guy in the test who could do 40 mins at 35 degrees on one charge. It’ll be fine for 95% of moto customers. Heck, most guys I see around the track do three 8 min motos and pack up after that. 
 

And for the pro testers: dial the power down so the bike lasts a moto and then compare to a 450. That would have been a sensible test. 

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RACING
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7/31/2023 2:03am

434's advice: dial your 13000$ brand new fastest bike in the world's power down in order to finish motos.

Like, seriously? 

Laughing

 

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djr
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7/31/2023 2:10am

The Moto verte test seems to be the first unbiased test of the Varg.

All the other "tests"  seem to be by biased influencer/shill type people , it will be interesting if more of these types of tests happen , or will Stark try to stop this happening ?

 

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#434
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7/31/2023 2:54am
RACING wrote:
434's advice: dial your 13000$ brand new fastest bike in the world's power down in order to finish motos. Like, seriously?   

434's advice: dial your 13000$ brand new fastest bike in the world's power down in order to finish motos.

Like, seriously? 

Laughing

 

Yeah, why not? F1 and MotoGP have also a limited fuel mass on board at race start to limit power output. Range is the limitation of an eMX. Who would have thought that!

I was happy to hear that the fast old guy could do 40 min on one charge in 35 degrees. That means I don’t have to charge my bike for my two 15 min motos and a bit of play riding I usually do on Sundays.

Let a 450 and a Varg race a moto and see who comes out on top. Maybe a Varg with 45 hp is faster than a 60 hp 450 over a race distance. Would be interesting.

Just wait and see, this thing will sell like sliced bread. 

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swordfish
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7/31/2023 3:43am
RACING wrote:
434's advice: dial your 13000$ brand new fastest bike in the world's power down in order to finish motos. Like, seriously?   

434's advice: dial your 13000$ brand new fastest bike in the world's power down in order to finish motos.

Like, seriously? 

Laughing

 

#434 wrote:
Yeah, why not? F1 and MotoGP have also a limited fuel mass on board at race start to limit power output. Range is the limitation of...

Yeah, why not? F1 and MotoGP have also a limited fuel mass on board at race start to limit power output. Range is the limitation of an eMX. Who would have thought that!

I was happy to hear that the fast old guy could do 40 min on one charge in 35 degrees. That means I don’t have to charge my bike for my two 15 min motos and a bit of play riding I usually do on Sundays.

Let a 450 and a Varg race a moto and see who comes out on top. Maybe a Varg with 45 hp is faster than a 60 hp 450 over a race distance. Would be interesting.

Just wait and see, this thing will sell like sliced bread. 

It will sell like week old moldy bread on the half off rack. 

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Chris_Buehler
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7/31/2023 5:35am
#434 wrote:
I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload...

I‘m so happy for all the haters that after a few week finally some negative stuff about the Varg came up again and they could unload.

12E70F43-69F0-4261-B96D-1F75AB48235E.jpeg?VersionId=PkymZMd6f f2fRsJtHghUOAobnh

But don’t worry guys, they will sell a shit load of those things for one reason only: it’s the fastest bike around. Like it or not.

 

RACING wrote:
What's the point of being the fastest if you can't finish a moto? Sorry Moto Verte's test doesn't fully go the same way as the relentless...

What's the point of being the fastest if you can't finish a moto?

Sorry Moto Verte's test doesn't fully go the same way as the relentless propaganda we've had to endure here for months.

#434 wrote:
Think of your average moto customer: They want a fast and fun bike on which they’re faster than their buddys. They are also slower and less...

Think of your average moto customer: They want a fast and fun bike on which they’re faster than their buddys. They are also slower and less fit than the old guy in the test who could do 40 mins at 35 degrees on one charge. It’ll be fine for 95% of moto customers. Heck, most guys I see around the track do three 8 min motos and pack up after that. 
 

And for the pro testers: dial the power down so the bike lasts a moto and then compare to a 450. That would have been a sensible test. 

Three 8 minute motos and pack up after that. Well I guess that's the norm and the bike should be fine then. What? 

2
swordfish
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7/31/2023 5:48am
RACING wrote:
What's the point of being the fastest if you can't finish a moto? Sorry Moto Verte's test doesn't fully go the same way as the relentless...

What's the point of being the fastest if you can't finish a moto?

Sorry Moto Verte's test doesn't fully go the same way as the relentless propaganda we've had to endure here for months.

#434 wrote:
Think of your average moto customer: They want a fast and fun bike on which they’re faster than their buddys. They are also slower and less...

Think of your average moto customer: They want a fast and fun bike on which they’re faster than their buddys. They are also slower and less fit than the old guy in the test who could do 40 mins at 35 degrees on one charge. It’ll be fine for 95% of moto customers. Heck, most guys I see around the track do three 8 min motos and pack up after that. 
 

And for the pro testers: dial the power down so the bike lasts a moto and then compare to a 450. That would have been a sensible test. 

Three 8 minute motos and pack up after that. Well I guess that's the norm and the bike should be fine then. What? 

434 is living in some bizarro world. 

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