ACL Surgery (Moto Crash :p)

11/30/2009 8:03pm
Well that is good to hear. Maybe this won't hold you up to much then. Sounds like you are doing really well other than the skin problem. Just be careful walking around that you step square and don't misstep. I have a bad habit of doing stupid shit like kicking a blanket off my feet. lol that ones a killer.

I'm walking now and I have zero pain other than where they took a couple screws out that I had from the past. That felt like a broken bone for a while but its been 24 days so that has worn off for the most part. But keep in mind to be overly cautious for a while. I still wear my brace everytime I go out and i still use one crutch just to be safe and it also keeps people from bumping into you if you know what I mean. I don't really need it but I have it if I do and kinda use it as a cane. Better safe than sorry. No use screwing up a perfectly good surgery.

Funny story about the crutch. Its deer season here and I spend the weekend at hunting camp with my Dad and my two neighbor twins. I shot two deer each about 200 yards away while standing and using my crutch as a tripod. It worked great. Then I made the twins drag them. lol Sometimes being injured isn't all bad.
swizcore
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11/30/2009 8:08pm
Haha nice!
I know what you mean about the blanket kicking thing, except for me its my two little sons, they always have a some kind of ball on the floor somewhere and I'll be damned if I dont still give em a little kick everytime and think "what the hell did I do that for". Smile
11/30/2009 8:16pm
Thats a good one. It snowed here over the weekend and damned if I didn't kick the step on the patio to clean the snow off my shoes. Big mistake, that hurt like hell. I don't know where ideas like that come from. Good stuff.
ktm212
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11/30/2009 8:34pm
hey guys, going for my PRE-OP appointment in the morning and then acl surgery on Thursday. My doctors awesome and could do the surgery with his eyes closed from what i've heard but you guys made me feel uneasy! haha

im 18 so idt ill be too bad, ive been working out alot cuz its been 5 weeks since i tore it (complete tear) been using a resistance band working it as much as i can take trying to keep it stong. also been doing some cardio on an eliptical so thats good but I'm ready for surgery.

hopefully with good PT and alota work ill be riding by april and be able to make lorettas this year since i've missed it last year. bummed im missing the off season to riding and train but I wanna be ready by spring and LL qualifiers

The Shop

ktm212
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11/30/2009 8:36pm
getting a patella graph btw, said recovery would be quicker
swizcore
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11/30/2009 8:42pm
ktm212 wrote:
getting a patella graph btw, said recovery would be quicker
I got a patella graft too Smile .
Just kidding man, Im sure you'll be fine.
As it stands I am a one of a kind case.
yzrider09
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12/1/2009 4:17pm
Man that is terrible about your skin reaction. At least you aren't in pain though. My knee's still ache a lot and keep me up at night. To describe it best, my knees just feel old. It was four weeks today since my surgery. I've been going up and down stairs a lot skipping two steps at a time going up trying to get my strength back. Hopefully I'll be riding by February. The pain is the only thing frustrating me. I didn't think it would be this bad for this long.
swizcore
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12/1/2009 4:27pm Edited Date/Time 12/1/2009 4:27pm
My PT was really impressed with my ROM, said it was 167 degrees I believe. I really enjoyed the therapy, it feels good to have a stable knee. I did all the excercises on both knees and was shocked to find that they were all easier on my new knee. Shit, guess that means I may go through this again next year.
CamP
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12/1/2009 4:36pm
yzrider09 wrote:
Man that is terrible about your skin reaction. At least you aren't in pain though. My knee's still ache a lot and keep me up at...
Man that is terrible about your skin reaction. At least you aren't in pain though. My knee's still ache a lot and keep me up at night. To describe it best, my knees just feel old. It was four weeks today since my surgery. I've been going up and down stairs a lot skipping two steps at a time going up trying to get my strength back. Hopefully I'll be riding by February. The pain is the only thing frustrating me. I didn't think it would be this bad for this long.
My knee wasn't totally pain free for about seven months. The first month was pretty miserable. Took about 3-4 months before it felt good but still had flashes of pain.
yzrider09
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12/1/2009 4:47pm
CamP wrote:
My knee wasn't totally pain free for about seven months. The first month was pretty miserable. Took about 3-4 months before it felt good but still...
My knee wasn't totally pain free for about seven months. The first month was pretty miserable. Took about 3-4 months before it felt good but still had flashes of pain.
That makes me feel a little better. I keep hearing about people that didn't have pain or it was mild. Mine sure hasn't been. I guess surgery is just a different kind of pain that I'm not use to. I've had cracked ribs and various fractures, but this knee surgery has been miserable in comparison.
WhipMeister
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12/1/2009 4:55pm
There's a huge difference in pain between an allograft and arkograft procedure.
yzrider09
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12/1/2009 5:45pm
If the failure rate wasn't so high with allografts I certainly would have went with one. Not to mention recovery time was a lot longer, but I would have dealt with that to have less pain.
bchristy613
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12/1/2009 9:28pm
swizcore wrote:
My PT was really impressed with my ROM, said it was 167 degrees I believe. I really enjoyed the therapy, it feels good to have a...
My PT was really impressed with my ROM, said it was 167 degrees I believe. I really enjoyed the therapy, it feels good to have a stable knee. I did all the excercises on both knees and was shocked to find that they were all easier on my new knee. Shit, guess that means I may go through this again next year.
I doubt it was 167.. normal is 140 167 is pretty much your heel at your butt and even past that. Just pointing that out Wink

Glad to see your doing better though man, that skin reaction looked nasty!

I went back for my followup last wed -- dr said everything was good. I even drove my car (standard) 2 1/2 hours down there. I'm 2 1/2 weeks out. 0-135 on my acl repair side and 0-145 on the donor knee... 10 more degrees to go and I can start running again! He said once I'm able to run a lil then I can progress into sprinting.. Then after that follows the getting back into riding.. So its gonna be sooner than I thought I'm pretty stoked. I haven't had any pain other than trying to keep my leg straight. I'm real stiff when I wake up from sleeping with my knees bent so its a pain in the ass working them back to straight.
yzrider09
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12/2/2009 11:44am Edited Date/Time 12/2/2009 2:23pm
How is your donor knee doing as far as strength goes bchristy? I'm 4 weeks out from surgery and it's been at 100% range of motion since day one, but it's really sore when trying to do the leg extensions with weights. All in all my acl repair knee is doing better than the donor knee.

EDIT: Just got back from physical therapy. Range of motion is 0-140 degree's in my acl knee.
bchristy613
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12/2/2009 5:48pm
I just went to the local Y tonight and did some leg press w/o weighs ( i think the carriage is 75lb??) and that was not bad at all.. But once I did leg extensions it killed and I didnt even have any plates on the machine... Did 30 min on the bike as thats all I had time for. Coming down the stairs if I go down with the acl side first my donor side wants to buckle on me quite a bit so im trying to work on a controlled motion so that doesn't happen -- it kills when it catches you by suprise! What all have you been doing for strengthening?
swizcore
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12/2/2009 6:30pm
I saw a general surgeon today for a third opinion on my skin issue and he was freaked out by it. He got me scheduled with a skin disease/burn specialist who is also a highly regarded plastic surgeon this friday.

He, like the other docs I have seen was amazed at the 7 day nerve block. He couldn't believe a culture hadn't been ordered on my skin condition. He's really concerned that there is an infection which was not addressed under the necrotic area of my knee.

This pic is from two days ago:
bchristy613
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12/2/2009 6:42pm
damn dude that is crazy.... Hopefully someone gets something figured out fast because that can't be fun
user760a
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12/2/2009 7:33pm
ktm212 wrote:
getting a patella graph btw, said recovery would be quicker
I have got one hamstring graft and one cadaver graft (dead meat)

Both are about the same. One is going on 10 years old, the other one 11...imagine that?

take care of it and dont riode like an idiot in the future, you will be fine

the most interesting thing I ever saw RC say in an interview is that he considers it extremely important to ride with the balls of your feet on the peg rather than the arches- this keeps your foot from getting caught up in ruts and jacking your knee...important shit
yzrider09
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12/2/2009 9:50pm
I just went to the local Y tonight and did some leg press w/o weighs ( i think the carriage is 75lb??) and that was not...
I just went to the local Y tonight and did some leg press w/o weighs ( i think the carriage is 75lb??) and that was not bad at all.. But once I did leg extensions it killed and I didnt even have any plates on the machine... Did 30 min on the bike as thats all I had time for. Coming down the stairs if I go down with the acl side first my donor side wants to buckle on me quite a bit so im trying to work on a controlled motion so that doesn't happen -- it kills when it catches you by suprise! What all have you been doing for strengthening?
I've been doing a lot of single leg presses which don't hurt either knee oddly enough, half squats, and leg extensions with 30lbs or so of weight. The leg extensions kill the donor knee but my therapist said you can't wait til it stops hurting. I also have the same problem going down stairs. I have to take quick steps to keep the donor knee from giving out. Going up the stairs is no problem and I skip two stairs at a time to help with gaining some strength back. My therapist said the leg extensions will help the most with regaining the quad muscles so I've been focusing on those the last few days.
mooch
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Fantasy
12/2/2009 10:24pm
I just went to the local Y tonight and did some leg press w/o weighs ( i think the carriage is 75lb??) and that was not...
I just went to the local Y tonight and did some leg press w/o weighs ( i think the carriage is 75lb??) and that was not bad at all.. But once I did leg extensions it killed and I didnt even have any plates on the machine... Did 30 min on the bike as thats all I had time for. Coming down the stairs if I go down with the acl side first my donor side wants to buckle on me quite a bit so im trying to work on a controlled motion so that doesn't happen -- it kills when it catches you by suprise! What all have you been doing for strengthening?
Based on anything I've read, leg extension machines apply a shearing type force on the ACL and should be avoided.
bchristy613
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12/3/2009 3:49am
mooch wrote:
Based on anything I've read, leg extension machines apply a shearing type force on the ACL and should be avoided.
As far as leg extension goes I'm only doing it on the donor knee until I get an official protocol from my surgeon's pt I'm waiting to do it on my reconstructed side. I got a pt protocol from work ( i work at a pt outpatient clinic ) and it doesnt correlate well with my progress. I do remember the PT saying at my last visit that there have been studies done about that -- and not to worry about it. I'm trying hard to remember if he said after I get full range of motion if I can do them and not have to worry about that or not.. He said the graft being bone to bone its set in there so good that you dont have to worry about it coming out. I'll have to verify what he exactly said though...
mooch
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Fantasy
12/3/2009 5:08am
Yep, if you google leg extensions and ACL there are a number of hits indicating it's not a good excercise in relation to the ACL. The DrMark guy on thumpertalk has also talked about staying away from that exercise. The PT I went to after my reconstruction felt the same way.
yzrider09
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12/3/2009 11:20am
I probably wouldn't do weighted leg extensions early on, but it's been 4 weeks for me and acl graft should be securely healed in by now. I won't be going heavier than my therapists recommends anyway though. I do however feel that my squatting days are over.
swizcore
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12/4/2009 12:17pm
Hopefully this is the second to last post from me in this thread. The last being when I am fully recovered.

Just got back from meeting with the specialist about my skin issue around my knee. The long story short is, he feels that whatever the numbing agent was that was injected into me after surgery was contaminated somehow. The photos I showed him of my knee from 3 days after my surgery already showed the damage had started. He said my overall good health is the reason that some of it is healing but the black part is dead and has no shot at coming back. He said while there appears to be no infection right now, that doesnt mean there wont be an infection tomorrow or in a week and because it is going to need a graft no matter what, we might as well do it sooner rather than later. He also said while the black tissue is "gangrenous" its what they call "dry gangrenous", not "wet gangrenous" and there is a big difference between the two. Dry gangrenous is not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

So, our plan of attack is I am having the necrotic tissue debrided as deeply as it needs to be to reach good tissue and then using grafts from my thigh/hip to start the new tissue regeneration. This happens next thursday at Genesis right by my house. Doc says it will only take about 30 minutes and the donor area from my leg will hurt more than my knee.
dirthead1
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12/4/2009 1:10pm
Wow, man I am sorry you have to go through this.. Especially with an elective surgery.

You would be amazed at the percentage of people that get infections from the Hospital OR. It is really high and that is why a shift is being made for state funded insurances not covering payment for treatment for such things anymore.

I would get a lawyer. This would be a slam dunk settle out of court with an arbitrator deal.
yzrider09
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12/4/2009 1:11pm
I'm sorry to hear all the trouble you are going through. The rest of us had it easy. Hope you make a quick and easy recovery.
12/4/2009 5:56pm
yzrider09 wrote:
I probably wouldn't do weighted leg extensions early on, but it's been 4 weeks for me and acl graft should be securely healed in by now...
I probably wouldn't do weighted leg extensions early on, but it's been 4 weeks for me and acl graft should be securely healed in by now. I won't be going heavier than my therapists recommends anyway though. I do however feel that my squatting days are over.
I quoted this one because of the remarks above about leg extensions. I was told to never do leg extensions ever again in my life, just forget about it and it was expressed to me by my Dr. and PT that it shouldn't be done by anyone even without knee injury. That sucks because I do like the exercise but I do buy into the explanation. They both say instead of leg extensions to do squats and after recovering from my last surgery I'd have to agree. I had great results with doing unweighted squats and eventually going to weighted.

The reason being as explained to me is as follows. In the perfect world you would never need your ACL if your Hamstring, Quads and calve muscles where strong enough. The muscle group working together would keep the knee in place. If you remember when you hurt your knee, these muscle groups probably weren't exerted when you incurred your injury.

When you do squats you are using both muscle groups, hamstring and quad in both directions of the exercise as well as calves. They are building at the same rate and working together to keep your knee in place at three points at all times during the exercise.

When doing leg extensions you are only using your quad. This is only one point of stability in a three point system. Beyond that, when you do a leg extension all the force is put directly on the ACL. No hamstring to back it up and no calve muscle to keep it aligned.

Do a leg extension and look at your leg. You can see it with your own eyes and it makes perfect sense.

On another hand, leg extensions done as an isometric is a very good exercise. No movement or range of motion. Try that, and you will see all 3 muscle groups at work.

If you can't do squats then you have no business doing leg extensions. That is just my belief.
bchristy613
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12/4/2009 6:29pm
thanks for explaining that .. I'm starting on wall squats right now and just working my way up
12/4/2009 7:38pm
I just started working on doing squats a 1/4 of the way down today. That and mostly quarter step lunges and 4" step ups. I can do stairs now but I'm not going to push it right now as coming down is a little iffy without my brace. I am getting a good workout with the lunges, squats and step ups.

I am always getting in trouble for doing to much but I just take myself to fatigue not muscle soreness or procedure soreness. If I can do my exercises a couple times a day and not get sore I know I've done as much as I can without compromising doing to much. As far as exercise, I'll just do what it gives me and I'm satisfied with the progress so far. Good luck on everything and keep working hard.

Another tip I've learned about squats and you can do this during wall squats. If you look at your knee while going down you should be able to see the tip of your toes. As you get better and better you can go lower and lower and still see the tips of your toes.
If you can't see the tips of your toes in your line of site you are not benefiting yourself, you are just making your knee sore. Try that and see if you don't do better with your squats.
yzrider09
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12/6/2009 1:25pm
I've been doing squats since the first week, just free weight of course and still can't get below 90 degrees and this is almost week 5. It's frustrating for me because I worked legs pretty religiously before I tore my ACL and haven't been able to since.

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