On track Alpinestar medical crew does nothing, spinal chord injury is serious

spimx
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spimx 4/29/2023 3:49pm
4/29/2023 3:49pm
spimx wrote:
Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then...

Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then why do they do absolutely nothing for Webb? They should have told Webb don't move at all and then they immobilize him with a scoop stretcher and move him to the x-ray for a better evaluation before anything. 

 

That was a direct hit to the spine and you can see alpinestars directing him to walk off the track then he is just sitting up on the mule. Anyone can help a rider to the mule and then drive so what does alpinestars provide??? 

 

They really need to practice some spinal trauma management on the track. The racers should understand ahead of time that if they take a big hit and are already off the track they need to just not move and alpinestars will extricate them to the mobile x-ray and a more controlled environment before they are allowed to sit up and walk around potentially exacerbating a spinal chord injury.   

The way they had Webb on the mule is exactly how they had Brian Moreau? No lessons learned???

 

Here you go FIFA is using whats called a stokes stretcher which would be better than letting Webb stumble around, make him stand then ride sitting up with nothing supporting his spine across a dirtbike track s1200 photo

 

Brent wrote:
John Bodnar is the chief physician for the Alpinestars mobile medical unit- he also works as an emergency room  trauma doctor at Scripps Coronado hospital.  I’ve...

John Bodnar is the chief physician for the Alpinestars mobile medical unit- he also works as an emergency room  trauma doctor at Scripps Coronado hospital. 

I’ve known Dr. Bodnar for a few years now, and I trust his medical judgement a fuck of a lot more than some anonymous message board guy like yourself.

 

Anonymous.... My name is Jeremy Smith I'll call them directly 

send me their numbers jws24@live.com

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spimx
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spimx 4/29/2023 3:52pm
4/29/2023 3:52pm
183Matt wrote:
Once again, none of us were there when Brian said whatever he said, so we do not have the info to pass judgment.  Have there been...

Once again, none of us were there when Brian said whatever he said, so we do not have the info to pass judgment.  Have there been errors or omissions in treatment through the years, yes.  But to act like the Alpinestars medic crew is willfully, not following proper protocols is preposterous.  Those men and women are operating under a licensed physician, and I’m certain, with the litigious society we live in, they are not setting out to make the situation worse or better yet dumbed down the care they are providing.

"Those men and women are operating under a licensed physician"

Operating what? The mule?

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183Matt
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183Matt 4/29/2023 3:56pm
4/29/2023 3:56pm
183Matt wrote:
Once again, none of us were there when Brian said whatever he said, so we do not have the info to pass judgment.  Have there been...

Once again, none of us were there when Brian said whatever he said, so we do not have the info to pass judgment.  Have there been errors or omissions in treatment through the years, yes.  But to act like the Alpinestars medic crew is willfully, not following proper protocols is preposterous.  Those men and women are operating under a licensed physician, and I’m certain, with the litigious society we live in, they are not setting out to make the situation worse or better yet dumbed down the care they are providing.

spimx wrote:

"Those men and women are operating under a licensed physician"

Operating what? The mule?

Best of luck to you in your medic career young man.  I hope you never find yourself in a malpractice lawsuit due to an arm chair quarter back or ambulance chasing lawyer.  
 

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spimx
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spimx 4/29/2023 4:00pm
4/29/2023 4:00pm
183Matt wrote:
Once again, none of us were there when Brian said whatever he said, so we do not have the info to pass judgment.  Have there been...

Once again, none of us were there when Brian said whatever he said, so we do not have the info to pass judgment.  Have there been errors or omissions in treatment through the years, yes.  But to act like the Alpinestars medic crew is willfully, not following proper protocols is preposterous.  Those men and women are operating under a licensed physician, and I’m certain, with the litigious society we live in, they are not setting out to make the situation worse or better yet dumbed down the care they are providing.

spimx wrote:

"Those men and women are operating under a licensed physician"

Operating what? The mule?

183Matt wrote:
Best of luck to you in your medic career young man.  I hope you never find yourself in a malpractice lawsuit due to an arm chair...

Best of luck to you in your medic career young man.  I hope you never find yourself in a malpractice lawsuit due to an arm chair quarter back or ambulance chasing lawyer.  
 

Unlike alpinestars I have never been sued 

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The Shop

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SKULL ISLAND 4/29/2023 4:13pm
4/29/2023 4:13pm

"Too many racers in wheelchairs now. (...) what did they do Webb or Brian Moreau? Touch him with their magic healing hands? (...) Am I the only one that thinks Mathilda Musquin is real pretty "

Sinking deeper and deeper.

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DonM
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DonM 4/29/2023 4:15pm
4/29/2023 4:15pm
spimx wrote:

"Those men and women are operating under a licensed physician"

Operating what? The mule?

183Matt wrote:
Best of luck to you in your medic career young man.  I hope you never find yourself in a malpractice lawsuit due to an arm chair...

Best of luck to you in your medic career young man.  I hope you never find yourself in a malpractice lawsuit due to an arm chair quarter back or ambulance chasing lawyer.  
 

spimx wrote:

Unlike alpinestars I have never been sued 

I’ve got a little kink in my neck if I send you a video will you give me a diagnosis from your couch….

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NorCalRedRyder 4/29/2023 4:15pm
4/29/2023 4:15pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2023 4:35pm
NorCalRedRyder wrote:
Is it possible that for some reason Webb refused? He definetly should've at least had a neck brace at the bare minimum, but us mxers are...

Is it possible that for some reason Webb refused? He definetly should've at least had a neck brace at the bare minimum, but us mxers are a proud bunch that don't like to show weakness. Just saying

gharmon wrote:
Thats the only thing that makes sense.  Then you see the alpinestars guy doing manual neck immobilization while riding on a bumpy utv ride.  Hopefully cooper...

Thats the only thing that makes sense.  Then you see the alpinestars guy doing manual neck immobilization while riding on a bumpy utv ride.  Hopefully cooper refused and  is okay. Otherwise i think they would have learned from Brian Moreau incident. 

I mean he was holding his neck so by that time they knew something. 

Im perplexed kinda like the op.

 

I find it perfectly feasible. He was still hoping after he got some "medical attention" that he could go race the LCQ and Main and salvage some points to help his title hopes. If he got wheeled out in a neck brace on a stretcher that's game over. Gotta love the downvotes from people who've never raced, but think because they ride a CRF 230 with a camelpac on some lame trails, think they know what a guy like Webb is thinking. Webb was born and bred to be a racer since he was young and still had hopes he could still recover enough to go after some title points. His tears were from disappointment. Not pain. 

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NorCalRedRyder 4/29/2023 4:19pm
4/29/2023 4:19pm

Also I know why Mike and the staff don't make the names of the downvoters public. But it is annoying that these guys can just anonymously down vote like a p**** and get no flack. If I down vote something  I will also post that I did.

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OR Racer46
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OR Racer46 4/29/2023 4:29pm
4/29/2023 4:29pm

As a retired Capt Firemedic Spec Ops   That also Was a Team Leader for  F.E.M.A   1 of 5  First In Teams       i have down Voted everything Spimx  has posted . 

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Gravel
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Gravel 4/29/2023 4:30pm
4/29/2023 4:30pm

The new thread title is a lot better..

Kawboy14!
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Kawboy14! 4/29/2023 4:32pm
4/29/2023 4:32pm

As a landscaper/amateur senior Pro C rider…..seems like Webb told them he didn’t need a back board!

WhatsStoppingU 4/29/2023 4:35pm
4/29/2023 4:35pm
spimx wrote:
Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then...

Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then why do they do absolutely nothing for Webb? They should have told Webb don't move at all and then they immobilize him with a scoop stretcher and move him to the x-ray for a better evaluation before anything. 

 

That was a direct hit to the spine and you can see alpinestars directing him to walk off the track then he is just sitting up on the mule. Anyone can help a rider to the mule and then drive so what does alpinestars provide??? 

 

They really need to practice some spinal trauma management on the track. The racers should understand ahead of time that if they take a big hit and are already off the track they need to just not move and alpinestars will extricate them to the mobile x-ray and a more controlled environment before they are allowed to sit up and walk around potentially exacerbating a spinal chord injury.   

The way they had Webb on the mule is exactly how they had Brian Moreau? No lessons learned???

 

Here you go FIFA is using whats called a stokes stretcher which would be better than letting Webb stumble around, make him stand then ride sitting up with nothing supporting his spine across a dirtbike track s1200 photo

 

Brent wrote:
John Bodnar is the chief physician for the Alpinestars mobile medical unit- he also works as an emergency room  trauma doctor at Scripps Coronado hospital.  I’ve...

John Bodnar is the chief physician for the Alpinestars mobile medical unit- he also works as an emergency room  trauma doctor at Scripps Coronado hospital. 

I’ve known Dr. Bodnar for a few years now, and I trust his medical judgement a fuck of a lot more than some anonymous message board guy like yourself.

 

I’m my almost 15 years as a first responder, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had doctors show up on scene, 100% meaning to help, but don’t have the first clue what to do.  Doctors are usually the first ones to say they don’t do pre-hospital care because they suck at it.

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peltier626
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peltier626 4/29/2023 4:51pm
4/29/2023 4:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2023 5:03pm

This F_ucking sport is so got damned backwards. The damn injuries and the list of injured riders every year due to the extremities of the track designs caused by the capabilities of the modern day bike. It has exceeded the threshold of the human body. The way the riders are treated like a circus show scooped off the track so the show can continue is ridiculous. The fact that the riders actually have to pay to participate in the pro races. Who the hell is pocketing the cash? Why the hell are these riders fed through the meat grinder, Do these crazy ass tracks make for better racing and improve the sport as a whole. Short sighted and greed seem to run the model. F_uck the 450, it has no place in modern moto. Wonder why moto is on the decline, give me logical reasons why this sport should thrive, it just aint worth it. Stupid. There is no damn way the race shouldnt have been stopped and every precaution should have been taken to safely remove cooper webb off the track and properly taken care of. Sad. It is a dying sport. Wonder why. 60 hp ICE is too damn much now we have a damn 80 hp max torqued dildo coming out soon that will change the sport. Probably gonna pile drive the sport into oblivion.

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Gravel
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Gravel 4/29/2023 4:54pm
4/29/2023 4:54pm
spimx wrote:

"Those men and women are operating under a licensed physician"

Operating what? The mule?

183Matt wrote:
Best of luck to you in your medic career young man.  I hope you never find yourself in a malpractice lawsuit due to an arm chair...

Best of luck to you in your medic career young man.  I hope you never find yourself in a malpractice lawsuit due to an arm chair quarter back or ambulance chasing lawyer.  
 

spimx wrote:

Unlike alpinestars I have never been sued 

Yet.. and you might never deserve to be sued, but it still happens. 

gharmon
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gharmon 4/29/2023 4:59pm
4/29/2023 4:59pm
OR Racer46 wrote:
As a retired Capt Firemedic Spec Ops   That also Was a Team Leader for  F.E.M.A   1 of 5  First In Teams       i have down...

As a retired Capt Firemedic Spec Ops   That also Was a Team Leader for  F.E.M.A   1 of 5  First In Teams       i have down Voted everything Spimx  has posted . 

Okay, ill bite. Why? Im not a first responder (unless they walk in or get dropped off or kicked out at the door) but i can see some valid points he makes and a few others. Sure, its arm chair qb'ing but id almost be willing to bet that ambulance crew put on a collar, if they did the er crew most certainly will once the er dr/pa/np sees him. 

Im my experience 90% of the ems crews i've worked with would have him in a collar minimum. Thoughts sir? Just curious?

All this means nothing if webb said go kick rocks and wasnt gonna wear that shit. Pt right to refuse. 

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SX_336
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SX_336 4/29/2023 5:19pm
4/29/2023 5:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2023 5:21pm
spimx wrote:
Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then...

Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then why do they do absolutely nothing for Webb? They should have told Webb don't move at all and then they immobilize him with a scoop stretcher and move him to the x-ray for a better evaluation before anything. 

 

That was a direct hit to the spine and you can see alpinestars directing him to walk off the track then he is just sitting up on the mule. Anyone can help a rider to the mule and then drive so what does alpinestars provide??? 

 

They really need to practice some spinal trauma management on the track. The racers should understand ahead of time that if they take a big hit and are already off the track they need to just not move and alpinestars will extricate them to the mobile x-ray and a more controlled environment before they are allowed to sit up and walk around potentially exacerbating a spinal chord injury.   

The way they had Webb on the mule is exactly how they had Brian Moreau? No lessons learned???

 

Here you go FIFA is using whats called a stokes stretcher which would be better than letting Webb stumble around, make him stand then ride sitting up with nothing supporting his spine across a dirtbike track s1200 photo

 

RN here. Your heart is in the right place, but you’re trying to diagnose from the couch and you know you’re not supposed to ever do that. The only time C-Spine is automatically suspected is if the crash isn’t witnessed. These guys have their jobs for a reason. And as long as I’ve been watching Supercross and Motocross I’ve never seen them take someone off the track and the rider turn out paralyzed after the fact. They were on the scene right away. They assessed the seen as they came to it. Webb got up on his own and was obviously a little woozy from the impact to the back of his head.

 

Webb was talking and I’m sure they asked him all the right questions before they made any decision. Webb knew how he felt. He never lost consciousness, he was limp when he was hit as he didn’t see it coming so didn’t tense up and he is in a Bell Moto 10. That helmet definitely helped absorb the impact.
 

If Webb said he didn’t need or want to be immobilized, then that’s it. They can’t force him. I doubt it came down to that, but it is up to him. Doc Bodnar and Asterisk aren’t going to jeopardize their license, career and reputation over one rider. I don’t care who it is. 
 

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gharmon
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gharmon 4/29/2023 5:27pm
4/29/2023 5:27pm
spimx wrote:
Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then...

Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then why do they do absolutely nothing for Webb? They should have told Webb don't move at all and then they immobilize him with a scoop stretcher and move him to the x-ray for a better evaluation before anything. 

 

That was a direct hit to the spine and you can see alpinestars directing him to walk off the track then he is just sitting up on the mule. Anyone can help a rider to the mule and then drive so what does alpinestars provide??? 

 

They really need to practice some spinal trauma management on the track. The racers should understand ahead of time that if they take a big hit and are already off the track they need to just not move and alpinestars will extricate them to the mobile x-ray and a more controlled environment before they are allowed to sit up and walk around potentially exacerbating a spinal chord injury.   

The way they had Webb on the mule is exactly how they had Brian Moreau? No lessons learned???

 

Here you go FIFA is using whats called a stokes stretcher which would be better than letting Webb stumble around, make him stand then ride sitting up with nothing supporting his spine across a dirtbike track s1200 photo

 

Brent wrote:
John Bodnar is the chief physician for the Alpinestars mobile medical unit- he also works as an emergency room  trauma doctor at Scripps Coronado hospital.  I’ve...

John Bodnar is the chief physician for the Alpinestars mobile medical unit- he also works as an emergency room  trauma doctor at Scripps Coronado hospital. 

I’ve known Dr. Bodnar for a few years now, and I trust his medical judgement a fuck of a lot more than some anonymous message board guy like yourself.

 

WhatsStoppingU wrote:
I’m my almost 15 years as a first responder, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had doctors show up on scene, 100% meaning to...

I’m my almost 15 years as a first responder, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had doctors show up on scene, 100% meaning to help, but don’t have the first clue what to do.  Doctors are usually the first ones to say they don’t do pre-hospital care because they suck at it.

I have heard that more than once. I can 100% tell you i have meet some medics whose opinion i trust more than some Ed Dr's.  

Yall have to make decisions without the luxury of labs, imaging, resp, etc. Good job and we appreciate you guys that get the process started. Thanks

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sandspider250 4/29/2023 5:28pm
4/29/2023 5:28pm

They actually had him walking around when it first happened. They should have red flag the damn race and got an ambulance in there immediately. 

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spimx
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spimx 4/29/2023 5:29pm
4/29/2023 5:29pm
SX_336 wrote:
RN here. Your heart is in the right place, but you’re trying to diagnose from the couch and you know you’re not supposed to ever do...

RN here. Your heart is in the right place, but you’re trying to diagnose from the couch and you know you’re not supposed to ever do that. The only time C-Spine is automatically suspected is if the crash isn’t witnessed. These guys have their jobs for a reason. And as long as I’ve been watching Supercross and Motocross I’ve never seen them take someone off the track and the rider turn out paralyzed after the fact. They were on the scene right away. They assessed the seen as they came to it. Webb got up on his own and was obviously a little woozy from the impact to the back of his head.

 

Webb was talking and I’m sure they asked him all the right questions before they made any decision. Webb knew how he felt. He never lost consciousness, he was limp when he was hit as he didn’t see it coming so didn’t tense up and he is in a Bell Moto 10. That helmet definitely helped absorb the impact.
 

If Webb said he didn’t need or want to be immobilized, then that’s it. They can’t force him. I doubt it came down to that, but it is up to him. Doc Bodnar and Asterisk aren’t going to jeopardize their license, career and reputation over one rider. I don’t care who it is. 
 

Are you aware that they took Brian Moreau off the track in the same way and he ended up with paralysis? They already got sued. The way football players and even soccer players are removed form the field with better precaution is a standard that the alpinestars medical team just does not meet. What will it take for alpinestras to practice better precaution, another spinal chord injury. 

"The only time C-Spine is automatically suspected is if the crash isn’t witnessed." This just makes no sense whatsoever. 

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gharmon
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gharmon 4/29/2023 5:34pm
4/29/2023 5:34pm
spimx wrote:
Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then...

Too many racers in wheelchairs now. Lots of vital guys are going to say "o but they are doctors and nurses and work on EMS"; Then why do they do absolutely nothing for Webb? They should have told Webb don't move at all and then they immobilize him with a scoop stretcher and move him to the x-ray for a better evaluation before anything. 

 

That was a direct hit to the spine and you can see alpinestars directing him to walk off the track then he is just sitting up on the mule. Anyone can help a rider to the mule and then drive so what does alpinestars provide??? 

 

They really need to practice some spinal trauma management on the track. The racers should understand ahead of time that if they take a big hit and are already off the track they need to just not move and alpinestars will extricate them to the mobile x-ray and a more controlled environment before they are allowed to sit up and walk around potentially exacerbating a spinal chord injury.   

The way they had Webb on the mule is exactly how they had Brian Moreau? No lessons learned???

 

Here you go FIFA is using whats called a stokes stretcher which would be better than letting Webb stumble around, make him stand then ride sitting up with nothing supporting his spine across a dirtbike track s1200 photo

 

SX_336 wrote:
RN here. Your heart is in the right place, but you’re trying to diagnose from the couch and you know you’re not supposed to ever do...

RN here. Your heart is in the right place, but you’re trying to diagnose from the couch and you know you’re not supposed to ever do that. The only time C-Spine is automatically suspected is if the crash isn’t witnessed. These guys have their jobs for a reason. And as long as I’ve been watching Supercross and Motocross I’ve never seen them take someone off the track and the rider turn out paralyzed after the fact. They were on the scene right away. They assessed the seen as they came to it. Webb got up on his own and was obviously a little woozy from the impact to the back of his head.

 

Webb was talking and I’m sure they asked him all the right questions before they made any decision. Webb knew how he felt. He never lost consciousness, he was limp when he was hit as he didn’t see it coming so didn’t tense up and he is in a Bell Moto 10. That helmet definitely helped absorb the impact.
 

If Webb said he didn’t need or want to be immobilized, then that’s it. They can’t force him. I doubt it came down to that, but it is up to him. Doc Bodnar and Asterisk aren’t going to jeopardize their license, career and reputation over one rider. I don’t care who it is. 
 

Ed RN here as well. 2-3 years ago it happen to a french kid. He is now suing feld.  It list in this thread or the other one.

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peltier626
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peltier626 4/29/2023 5:37pm
4/29/2023 5:37pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2023 5:46pm

Progression. At least we can sell donuts at the races now. What a damn joke. This whole damn sport is a joke.

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mikedez
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mikedez 4/29/2023 5:40pm
4/29/2023 5:40pm

I don’t know why the op is getting so much hate. They didn’t even put a neck brace on him. First thing I said when it showed the mule bumping all over the place with the guy holding his hands around coops neck was why the **** do they not have a neck brace or him on a backboard? 

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sandspider250 4/29/2023 5:48pm
4/29/2023 5:48pm

I guess the SX leaders don't really care about "The Talent"

 

ns503
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ns503 4/29/2023 5:50pm
4/29/2023 5:50pm
mikedez wrote:
I don’t know why the op is getting so much hate. They didn’t even put a neck brace on him. First thing I said when it...

I don’t know why the op is getting so much hate. They didn’t even put a neck brace on him. First thing I said when it showed the mule bumping all over the place with the guy holding his hands around coops neck was why the **** do they not have a neck brace or him on a backboard? 

This place always has lurking lynch mobs ready to go off at most anything.

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WhipMeister
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WhipMeister 4/29/2023 6:01pm
4/29/2023 6:01pm

That Holiday Inn Express must've been sold out last night!

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LoudLove
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LoudLove 4/29/2023 6:15pm
4/29/2023 6:15pm

This would make an interesting topic for the Weege Show. Discussing head & neck trauma protocols would help fans understand some of the decision-making. 
 

Most riders know, or have experienced themselves, injuries that could not be fully diagnosed at the track. Traumatic injuries sometimes take minutes, or even hours, to manifest, so a rider’s “I’m okay” should be considered advisory at best. 
 

Webb apparently sustained no serious injury, so immobilization was not necessary. But if the tools and equipment are available, why take the chance? 

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Moto X Racer
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Moto X Racer 4/29/2023 6:23pm
4/29/2023 6:23pm

Is it possible that Webb didnt present with any symptoms of a neck / spinal cord injury?

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Question
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Question 4/29/2023 6:37pm
4/29/2023 6:37pm

Honestly I thought the post would be about Barcia's crash, head first after the dragon's back at mach speed, the bike was like 15 meters further ... No back board either ...

Not to bash anyone but that makes me think the show must look softer than it is, so the public can sleep well and come back next year, thinking "they are alright, they are gladiators anyway" ...

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Question 4/29/2023 6:39pm
4/29/2023 6:39pm
Moto X Racer wrote:

Is it possible that Webb didnt present with any symptoms of a neck / spinal cord injury?

As much as it is possible he was fully concussed and didn't know what is name was ... so any info coming from him directly was to take with a grain of salt.

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