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135
Joined
5/27/2011
Location
Youngstown, OH, USA
Lyndon Snodgrass on his Kawasaki won the GNCC title last year in the XC2 class. The Team Babbitts Kawasaki rider run by Fred Andrews dominated the entire year. With only 5-10 green bikes at GNCC’s out of 700 riders you’d think they would market the shit out of winning that title last year. NOTHING. Not one ad anywhere that I’ve seen… Huge missed opportunity for them, winning a title against a sea of orange, white and red is a BIG accomplishment for the Kawasaki brand.
I believe the Japanese manufacturers understand that there is no long game for off road motorcycling. I worked briefly with the Pennsylvania government regarding motorcycle trail systems and nobody has any interest in them accept the current users. And that number is dwindling. Off road racing will perhaps continue a couple more decades, at most, but off road motorcycling is doomed for any number of reasons. Number one probably the hesitation of the largest landowner in the country, the governments state, local, and federal. Number two current generations are more sedentary people and much more risk averse than past generations. In short too few people care.
State park trail systems is one thing. A farmer that owns 1500 acres and wants to make a shit ton of money holding a race is another thing. There’s always going to be someone that wants to make money off their land. I don’t think GNCC has any races on state owned land anyways. Also the KTM group seems to be pretty involved in off road. Offering 75 models 😂 but back to the point the only Kawasaki in the XC2 class won the title and Kaw didn’t advertise it. Missed a big opportunity to sell bikes the GNCC crowd I think. BTW Kawasaki doubled production for 2023 of their X models.
That would be true except for the fact that every year, the government further restricts what we can do on “our” land. Unless, of course, you’re a developer that can grease the pockets of elected scumbags (redundant), then you get to do whatever the F you want.
Between regulatory encroachment on property rights and physical encroachment due to development, I’d be surprised if there’s anywhere to ride in 20 years.
Just another Aussie dominating American racing.
Snodgrass
Tyla Jones
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I think you are wrong about the numbers of Kawis at off-road races. I know they don't hold a candle to KTM group numbers, but I see quite at few at the midwest local and regional series including more kick start models than you would expect. Just taking a quick glance through GNCC results there are more than 6-10 in a given race. I agree though they did not market the XC2 win well.
Denny Bartz is the team manager. Fred Andrews is the crew chief.
The state park system is just part of it. Noise concerns, enviromental concerns, private land is not private. The department I was in controlled just one aspect of Pennsylvania's wilderness and had a $650 million dollar budget, how can you compete with that. The death of off road motorcycling is inevitable, I have seen it. Shame.
I understand the pessimism, but I just watched Stone Spray Sandwich (2005) this weekend and there is a segment where I think* it is Mike Mason out in the hills and he’s saying how there is no way we’ll be allowed to ride dirt bikes off road in 10 years…and here we are.
I could be wrong, but I think we’ll be alright
As a counterpoint, in the last few years my club has:
-Taken over a dual-sport held in Pennsylvania state forest after the original club folded.
-Resurrected a Pennsylvania enduro that is held in state forest that has not been run in years.
-Will be adding a hare scramble to our series, held on private land in PA.
-Have the DCNR allow for additional trail.
-Worked with PAOHV, AMA, and various other user groups to get PA House Bill 1706 introduced to allow dirt bikes on the state ATV trail system. It ultimately did not get to vote before their recess, but it made it further than any other dirt bike use bill has, and with bi-partisan backers.
Additionally, clubs in NJ worked to get expanded use in their state forest as well. It's not all doom and gloom for offroad.
There is a ton of Kawasakis at every GNCC, along with the other Japanese bikes. KTMs are probably the most common but certainly not the only ones out there. The XC2 championships never seem to quite get much publicity, if you are not on the east coast and dont follow much GNCC you probably have no idea what XC2 champion means.
XC2 has much more of a feeder class feel to it than 250 supercross class does.
Also, Grant Baylor won the Overall at Camp Coker last weekend on a Babbitts KX450.
I’m a little off but not much. 23 of 259 pm bikes were Kaw at the last round. That’s far from “a ton”
To spare from bickering over how many Kawalskis did or did not attend the GNCC, here is a breakdown of the 259 entries in the afternoon race for Camp Coker GNCC:
Kawaski could certainly stand to better leverage their recent success with Snodgrass in XC2 and Baylor's XC1/overall win at Coker to try to up those numbers.
Considering the x models were only added three years ago 12% isn’t bad. What is Hondas excuse? That is the most surprising thing about that table.
I'm not sure, the Hondas aren't popular locally to me either, but I do see one or two more every season. Pre-covid a local dealer was selling two-year leftover 450RXs for $5500 and having trouble moving them still.
Are you talking about Michaux?
Yes, Michaux Dual Sport.
Unfortunately, MORE was getting thin on active members to help put it on and it was a ton of work for just a few dedicated individuals who managed to keep it going for years. MORE ran it for 30 years before DVTR took it over (with their guidance), making Michaux the oldest continuously ran dual sport in the US.
Kawasaki's attempt with the x is pretty weak, its basically the mx version with a oring chain and 18'' rear wheel. It has a useless fuel tank for offroad racing. If they want a serious contender it at least needs a bigger tank and 6spd gearbox.
It doesn’t have a o-ring chain. A 6 speed gearbox is about useless on a 250f with the ratios ktm is using. Maybe Yamaha’s is better? I prefer the 5 speed mx boxes over the ktm 6 speed box.
So to me the only thing I would change is maybe the chain, and I would add a bigger tank if I needed to run more than 2 hours. The acerbis tank is pretty cheap so I don’t see that being a big issue.
Pit Row
Dont want to derail this too much, but does anyone know why KTM doesnt offer Kids trails bikes.
Seems odd that from a 50-85 all they offer is moto, then adults have a million different versions to choose from
I've got a 2022 KX250X. Bought it to replace my 2017 KTM 250 XC-F.
The KX does not come with an o-ring chain, lame for sure BUT I was okay with paying under $100 for a new chain. It was much cheaper than the big money I had to put into the crap air forks. I see KTM has seen the error of their ways in the 2024 lineup.
Suspension is revalved KX suspension. Works very well in GNCC style terrain.
I prefer the KX motor over the KTM, it rips. I race up in the north east. 6th gear for me is a non issue. A bigger fuel tank would be ideal but it's certainly not a deal breaker. I stop once for a quick splash of fuel during a 2 hour hare scramble.
The Kawasaki has won me over. I don't see myself going back KTM anytime soon.
How is the handling on the kx? Any issues getting it to steer in tight trails?
My comment wasn't meant to bag on the x, my dealer marked theirs down the $7400 and I went back the next weekend to see about picking it up and it was gone. I'm dying for a 250F as a secondary bike to my 300XC.
It's all good. I highly recommend a 250F! Fun/easy bikes to ride.
Handles very well. Stable and planted. I did notice in the tightest of corners the KTM was able to steer through them a little easier. I've adjusted my technique in those situations. Not a deal breaker though.
Cool! Interested to hear about the progression of the bill to allow dirtbikes in Michaux. I live 30 miles from there and have never understood why only ATVs/UTVs and sleds have had access.
We are working to get the bill reintroduced. Poor timing with its original introduction being just before covid saw that it never made it to vote before the house went to recess, squashing it and pretty much every other bill. I believe the original sponsor of the bill is no longer in the house as well.
I know a lot of people have been working on dirt bikes on ATV trails for years in Pa., I applaud you and your clubs efforts, but there always seems an impasse to that specific permission. Sadly, it will never happen. ATVs will always have a preferential treatment to dirt bikes simply because several of the largest ATV manufacturers are based in America, and no bikes are. Yet the sport needs people and groups like yours. I worked with the DCNR myself, and am skeptical of off road motorcycling's future at all in our state, let alone others. When researching for economic impacts of our sport, I contacted all the manufacturers, some media outlets, magazines, race organizations, etc. for facts concerning our sport, literally dozens of groups or entities, multiple ways, multiple times. The only response I got back was from DC's group. Motorcycling is a very, very small group of potential users of any sort of outdoor space, and many, many people have very strong feelings about their use. Many of those people have positions of power as well. A politician sounds pretty great any time he talks about "preserving" anything, rather than "using" it. Perhaps slight gains may be made from time to time, but the demise of the sport is unfortunately inevitable, there are just too few supporters, and way too many powerful opponents - many of whom are in our own industry.
According to the vitards KX's suck offroad. Hmmmm!
As far as KXs go, small gas tank, and five speed tranny, no deal.
450 tops out at 90, 250 somewhere north of 75. As for range both are better that a 2 stroke 250 mx bike, the 250f exceedingly so.
Just sayin'.
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