Who is Better? Tomac, JS7, RD5 or RV2?

kpiper
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4/12/2023 7:00pm
KYFHO699 wrote:
Like when Musquin pulled over for Dungey?  Team tactics are BS IMO - win it on your own or don’t race (Not Dungey’s fault).  That led...

Like when Musquin pulled over for Dungey?  Team tactics are BS IMO - win it on your own or don’t race (Not Dungey’s fault).  That led to the infamous bunching up race.  Down vote all you want, facts are facts.

The Vegas race where Tomac bunched them up was a race that will never be forgotten. More Tomac folklore making him #1 on my list.

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kpiper
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4/12/2023 7:01pm
Forty wrote:
Key words --- to me--- effective means closing the deal, right? ----    That's what makes these polls so much fun, they are good bench...

Key words --- to me--- effective means closing the deal, right? ----   

That's what makes these polls so much fun, they are good bench racing, but really no way to conclude.  Everyone has a different idea of what happened, how it was impactful to them, where they were in their lives, who they personally relate to, etc.  

That's why your approach is the soundest, because it's real/fact, however OP didn't ask who has the best stats, he asked who is better.

I usually stay out of these threads, damn!

Glad you joined in the discussion.

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kpiper
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4/12/2023 7:02pm
ExFix407 wrote:

I would guess if you asked the four of them they would all say JS7😝😝😝😝

This is probably true.

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kpiper
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4/12/2023 7:06pm
For all the Dungey fanboys, Villopoto won FOUR STRAIGHT 450 supercross titles against him while he was in his prime.  End of debate.  And also dominated...

For all the Dungey fanboys, Villopoto won FOUR STRAIGHT 450 supercross titles against him while he was in his prime.  End of debate.  And also dominated him outdoors when he was healthy.  For some reason people have selective memory when it comes to how dominant Villopoto was.

RV2 was a totally dominant racer/rider. Probably the only reason I would put Eli ahead of him now is that he is still winning 7 races (or more) at 30 years old. Truly incredible. RV2 burned out way too quickly as did RD5. 

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The Shop

Titan1
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4/12/2023 7:21pm

RV2 for me….one reason, championship win percentage.  He’s the only rider out of them that has won more championships than he lost (championship he entered).  
 

lesser riders could win more total races and championships just by having a longer career.  But win percentage eliminated that variable…

 

RV2 was an animal.

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4/12/2023 9:34pm
Titan1 wrote:
RV2 for me….one reason, championship win percentage.  He’s the only rider out of them that has won more championships than he lost (championship he entered).  ...

RV2 for me….one reason, championship win percentage.  He’s the only rider out of them that has won more championships than he lost (championship he entered).  
 

lesser riders could win more total races and championships just by having a longer career.  But win percentage eliminated that variable…

 

RV2 was an animal.

I agree, except Tomac is basically RV 2.0 and he still the fastest guy on the planet right now, which is insane.  Just go back to Pala 2 last summer when it was Sexton vs Tomac straight up for the title, and Tomac absolutely demolished Sexton on a 100° day.  Tomac can win until he’s over it. 

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mx313
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4/12/2023 11:47pm
For all the Dungey fanboys, Villopoto won FOUR STRAIGHT 450 supercross titles against him while he was in his prime.  End of debate.  And also dominated...

For all the Dungey fanboys, Villopoto won FOUR STRAIGHT 450 supercross titles against him while he was in his prime.  End of debate.  And also dominated him outdoors when he was healthy.  For some reason people have selective memory when it comes to how dominant Villopoto was.

kpiper wrote:
RV2 was a totally dominant racer/rider. Probably the only reason I would put Eli ahead of him now is that he is still winning 7 races...

RV2 was a totally dominant racer/rider. Probably the only reason I would put Eli ahead of him now is that he is still winning 7 races (or more) at 30 years old. Truly incredible. RV2 burned out way too quickly as did RD5. 

1st is the a sx only based question?

2nd i don't know how anybody could rank tomac higher then RV. I'm seeing ppl use longevity as a reason.

Tomac has 2 titles in 11 plus years.

RV has 4 titles in 6 years. 

How can the longevity even be a factor when he has half the titles in 2 times longer.

If tomac had 5 titles then longevity would be a valid reason. Coz it would be better win ratio vs more titles over a longer period.(senna vs schu/Hamilton)

But when u have less titles in a longer period of time it's impossible to be better then some1 who has won more in less time.

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mx313
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4/12/2023 11:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 11:50pm
For all the Dungey fanboys, Villopoto won FOUR STRAIGHT 450 supercross titles against him while he was in his prime.  End of debate.  And also dominated...

For all the Dungey fanboys, Villopoto won FOUR STRAIGHT 450 supercross titles against him while he was in his prime.  End of debate.  And also dominated him outdoors when he was healthy.  For some reason people have selective memory when it comes to how dominant Villopoto was.

kpiper wrote:
RV2 was a totally dominant racer/rider. Probably the only reason I would put Eli ahead of him now is that he is still winning 7 races...

RV2 was a totally dominant racer/rider. Probably the only reason I would put Eli ahead of him now is that he is still winning 7 races (or more) at 30 years old. Truly incredible. RV2 burned out way too quickly as did RD5. 

mx313 wrote:
1st is the a sx only based question? 2nd i don't know how anybody could rank tomac higher then RV. I'm seeing ppl use longevity as...

1st is the a sx only based question?

2nd i don't know how anybody could rank tomac higher then RV. I'm seeing ppl use longevity as a reason.

Tomac has 2 titles in 11 plus years.

RV has 4 titles in 6 years. 

How can the longevity even be a factor when he has half the titles in 2 times longer.

If tomac had 5 titles then longevity would be a valid reason. Coz it would be better win ratio vs more titles over a longer period.(senna vs schu/Hamilton)

But when u have less titles in a longer period of time it's impossible to be better then some1 who has won more in less time.

I think Christian Craig is the best 250 rider in history. He won a race 8 years ago. Then won a championship when he was in his 30s.

Longevity....

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Mx4life320
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4/13/2023 6:21am

A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7. 

To me raw talent and speed the list goes like this, JS7 RV2, ET3, RD5. (Guess that means I am older) 

RV beat ET3, so not sure how people are putting him ahead. Yes RV beat JS7 but, what James was in the mid to late 2000's was nothing short of amazing, when he was on. ET3 will be a great. RD5 was just so consistent, he was not often the fastest. But always a 1-2-3 rider. Just my opinion. 

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mx 219
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4/13/2023 6:57am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2023 6:58am
Mx4life320 wrote:
A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7.  To me raw talent and speed...

A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7. 

To me raw talent and speed the list goes like this, JS7 RV2, ET3, RD5. (Guess that means I am older) 

RV beat ET3, so not sure how people are putting him ahead. Yes RV beat JS7 but, what James was in the mid to late 2000's was nothing short of amazing, when he was on. ET3 will be a great. RD5 was just so consistent, he was not often the fastest. But always a 1-2-3 rider. Just my opinion. 

RV didnt race Tomac much, a few races when Eli jumped up on a 450 in SX in 2013 and then 9 races in 2014 Eli's rookie 450 season. It's not like Eli raced him for a few years, like he did with Dungey.

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TDeath21
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4/13/2023 7:09am

If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one off race and nobody was going to crash, I’d bet it went JS, ET, RV, RD. Career wise though, Dungey has everyone covered except maybe Villopoto. If it’s a SX only list, then I do give the edge to Villopoto. Dungey did beat him in 10, narrowly lost in 11 after the chain came off, then RV waxed everyone in 12 and 13. Then was pretty dominant again in 14.

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RCMartin406
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4/13/2023 10:00am
Mx4life320 wrote:
A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7.  To me raw talent and speed...

A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7. 

To me raw talent and speed the list goes like this, JS7 RV2, ET3, RD5. (Guess that means I am older) 

RV beat ET3, so not sure how people are putting him ahead. Yes RV beat JS7 but, what James was in the mid to late 2000's was nothing short of amazing, when he was on. ET3 will be a great. RD5 was just so consistent, he was not often the fastest. But always a 1-2-3 rider. Just my opinion. 

I like this observation. I don’t know why people bag on James for not being a championship contender when he has won every championship you can win in every discipline and category in SX and MX!🤷🏻‍♂️and all his championships were dominate. Much more dominant than any on this list! People also forget James smoked RV in 2009 and won 11 races and the championship! Here come the…..but RV was a rookie!🙄 

2010-2013 yeah those were bad years for JS, mostly with injuries.

2014 James and RV put on a great SX season with RV(6 wins) to JS(5 wins) with RV winning the championship. I can remember all of James wins, the infamous Toronto round as the best, but not sure which ones RV won without looking it up. My point is, only manufacturers and the rider give a shit about winning titles, most fans could care less.

here comes the usual down votes from the usual suspects lol

 

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RCMartin406
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4/13/2023 11:31am

Another indication of who fans think is the best rider is YouTube views. Look at the views on JS7 videos, shit the 2014 Toronto race alone has over 7M views! All the others guys videos can barely break 100k. James is like that billy the kid saying “I’ll make ya famous” 😂

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Johnny Ringo
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4/13/2023 6:24pm
TDeath21 wrote:
If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one...

If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one off race and nobody was going to crash, I’d bet it went JS, ET, RV, RD. Career wise though, Dungey has everyone covered except maybe Villopoto. If it’s a SX only list, then I do give the edge to Villopoto. Dungey did beat him in 10, narrowly lost in 11 after the chain came off, then RV waxed everyone in 12 and 13. Then was pretty dominant again in 14.

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro in 98 and Coop last year. 
 

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BigRedMachine
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4/13/2023 6:35pm

It's remarkable how fast and dominant Villopoto was after that crash that broke his Tibia and Fibia, didn't know if he was ever going to be the same rider, but he came back with a vengence.   

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-MAVERICK-
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4/13/2023 7:24pm
TDeath21 wrote:
If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one...

If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one off race and nobody was going to crash, I’d bet it went JS, ET, RV, RD. Career wise though, Dungey has everyone covered except maybe Villopoto. If it’s a SX only list, then I do give the edge to Villopoto. Dungey did beat him in 10, narrowly lost in 11 after the chain came off, then RV waxed everyone in 12 and 13. Then was pretty dominant again in 14.

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro...

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro in 98 and Coop last year. 
 

He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means. 

He lost the title by 10pts. in 2011.

His 20th (chain) at Anaheim 2 wrecked his chances. 

Champ: Villopoto 338pts.
12 podiums
6 wins
3x 2nd
2x 3rd 

2nd: Reed 334pts.
11 podiums
2 wins
5x 2nd
4x 3rd

3rd: Dungey 328pts.
13 podiums. 
1 win
6x 2nd
6x 3rd

Remove Dungey's 20th and throw away RV's worst result (9th) and Reed's worst result (8th), and the final standings would look like the following:

Champ: Dungey 327pts.
2nd: Villopoto 326pts.
3rd: Reed 321pts.

Cooper Webb's title defense was weak. He got 4 podiums, no wins, and finished 7th in the standings 81pts. behind Tomac.  

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TDeath21
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4/13/2023 8:35pm
TDeath21 wrote:
If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one...

If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one off race and nobody was going to crash, I’d bet it went JS, ET, RV, RD. Career wise though, Dungey has everyone covered except maybe Villopoto. If it’s a SX only list, then I do give the edge to Villopoto. Dungey did beat him in 10, narrowly lost in 11 after the chain came off, then RV waxed everyone in 12 and 13. Then was pretty dominant again in 14.

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro...

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro in 98 and Coop last year. 
 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means.  He lost the title by 10pts. in...

He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means. 

He lost the title by 10pts. in 2011.

His 20th (chain) at Anaheim 2 wrecked his chances. 

Champ: Villopoto 338pts.
12 podiums
6 wins
3x 2nd
2x 3rd 

2nd: Reed 334pts.
11 podiums
2 wins
5x 2nd
4x 3rd

3rd: Dungey 328pts.
13 podiums. 
1 win
6x 2nd
6x 3rd

Remove Dungey's 20th and throw away RV's worst result (9th) and Reed's worst result (8th), and the final standings would look like the following:

Champ: Dungey 327pts.
2nd: Villopoto 326pts.
3rd: Reed 321pts.

Cooper Webb's title defense was weak. He got 4 podiums, no wins, and finished 7th in the standings 81pts. behind Tomac.  

Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group of riders. The path to the championship was being on the box every weekend while those other guys have the occasional bad race. Which they did. Unfortunately, that was all negated through no fault of his own when the chain came off. And again in MX that year with the fuel issue, then the bike malfunction at Southwick. As I said earlier in this thread, Dungey gets the shaft in these polls. Always has always will.

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westeast
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Fantasy
4/13/2023 9:17pm
I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro...

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro in 98 and Coop last year. 
 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means.  He lost the title by 10pts. in...

He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means. 

He lost the title by 10pts. in 2011.

His 20th (chain) at Anaheim 2 wrecked his chances. 

Champ: Villopoto 338pts.
12 podiums
6 wins
3x 2nd
2x 3rd 

2nd: Reed 334pts.
11 podiums
2 wins
5x 2nd
4x 3rd

3rd: Dungey 328pts.
13 podiums. 
1 win
6x 2nd
6x 3rd

Remove Dungey's 20th and throw away RV's worst result (9th) and Reed's worst result (8th), and the final standings would look like the following:

Champ: Dungey 327pts.
2nd: Villopoto 326pts.
3rd: Reed 321pts.

Cooper Webb's title defense was weak. He got 4 podiums, no wins, and finished 7th in the standings 81pts. behind Tomac.  

TDeath21 wrote:
Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group...

Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group of riders. The path to the championship was being on the box every weekend while those other guys have the occasional bad race. Which they did. Unfortunately, that was all negated through no fault of his own when the chain came off. And again in MX that year with the fuel issue, then the bike malfunction at Southwick. As I said earlier in this thread, Dungey gets the shaft in these polls. Always has always will.

RD loses his 2017 SX title if you remove Tomas mechanical at Arlington.   
 

The points system rewards consistency more than wins.  Seems more fans enjoy seeing riders go for race wins vs podiums.  RD was the least exciting to watch from this list.  

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mxb2
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4/13/2023 9:22pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means.  He lost the title by 10pts. in...

He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means. 

He lost the title by 10pts. in 2011.

His 20th (chain) at Anaheim 2 wrecked his chances. 

Champ: Villopoto 338pts.
12 podiums
6 wins
3x 2nd
2x 3rd 

2nd: Reed 334pts.
11 podiums
2 wins
5x 2nd
4x 3rd

3rd: Dungey 328pts.
13 podiums. 
1 win
6x 2nd
6x 3rd

Remove Dungey's 20th and throw away RV's worst result (9th) and Reed's worst result (8th), and the final standings would look like the following:

Champ: Dungey 327pts.
2nd: Villopoto 326pts.
3rd: Reed 321pts.

Cooper Webb's title defense was weak. He got 4 podiums, no wins, and finished 7th in the standings 81pts. behind Tomac.  

TDeath21 wrote:
Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group...

Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group of riders. The path to the championship was being on the box every weekend while those other guys have the occasional bad race. Which they did. Unfortunately, that was all negated through no fault of his own when the chain came off. And again in MX that year with the fuel issue, then the bike malfunction at Southwick. As I said earlier in this thread, Dungey gets the shaft in these polls. Always has always will.

westeast wrote:
RD loses his 2017 SX title if you remove Tomas mechanical at Arlington.      The points system rewards consistency more than wins.  Seems more fans...

RD loses his 2017 SX title if you remove Tomas mechanical at Arlington.   
 

The points system rewards consistency more than wins.  Seems more fans enjoy seeing riders go for race wins vs podiums.  RD was the least exciting to watch from this list.  

Naw man ,didnt you hear, wins,titles dont matter to fans, just you tube clicks lol. If that was the case pastrana would be the goat. Lol.
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1
4/13/2023 10:05pm
Mx4life320 wrote:
A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7.  To me raw talent and speed...

A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7. 

To me raw talent and speed the list goes like this, JS7 RV2, ET3, RD5. (Guess that means I am older) 

RV beat ET3, so not sure how people are putting him ahead. Yes RV beat JS7 but, what James was in the mid to late 2000's was nothing short of amazing, when he was on. ET3 will be a great. RD5 was just so consistent, he was not often the fastest. But always a 1-2-3 rider. Just my opinion. 

I like this observation. I don’t know why people bag on James for not being a championship contender when he has won every championship you can...

I like this observation. I don’t know why people bag on James for not being a championship contender when he has won every championship you can win in every discipline and category in SX and MX!🤷🏻‍♂️and all his championships were dominate. Much more dominant than any on this list! People also forget James smoked RV in 2009 and won 11 races and the championship! Here come the…..but RV was a rookie!🙄 

2010-2013 yeah those were bad years for JS, mostly with injuries.

2014 James and RV put on a great SX season with RV(6 wins) to JS(5 wins) with RV winning the championship. I can remember all of James wins, the infamous Toronto round as the best, but not sure which ones RV won without looking it up. My point is, only manufacturers and the rider give a shit about winning titles, most fans could care less.

here comes the usual down votes from the usual suspects lol

 

Personally I put 2011 Daytona as James' best ride.

Johnny Ringo
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4/13/2023 10:10pm
TDeath21 wrote:
If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one...

If all four lined up in their prime for a championship, it likely goes RV, RD, ET, JS. If you told me it was a one off race and nobody was going to crash, I’d bet it went JS, ET, RV, RD. Career wise though, Dungey has everyone covered except maybe Villopoto. If it’s a SX only list, then I do give the edge to Villopoto. Dungey did beat him in 10, narrowly lost in 11 after the chain came off, then RV waxed everyone in 12 and 13. Then was pretty dominant again in 14.

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro...

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro in 98 and Coop last year. 
 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means.  He lost the title by 10pts. in...

He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means. 

He lost the title by 10pts. in 2011.

His 20th (chain) at Anaheim 2 wrecked his chances. 

Champ: Villopoto 338pts.
12 podiums
6 wins
3x 2nd
2x 3rd 

2nd: Reed 334pts.
11 podiums
2 wins
5x 2nd
4x 3rd

3rd: Dungey 328pts.
13 podiums. 
1 win
6x 2nd
6x 3rd

Remove Dungey's 20th and throw away RV's worst result (9th) and Reed's worst result (8th), and the final standings would look like the following:

Champ: Dungey 327pts.
2nd: Villopoto 326pts.
3rd: Reed 321pts.

Cooper Webb's title defense was weak. He got 4 podiums, no wins, and finished 7th in the standings 81pts. behind Tomac.  

RVs worst finish was a DNQ at Jacksonville 

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4/13/2023 10:16pm

OK - this may not be popular but here goes.

1  Dungey 7 big bike chips.  then came in 2nd or 3rd 6 or 7 other years

2. Villopoto 6 big bike chips,  fast as hell but got burnt too quick

3.  Tomac  6 big bike chips.  May end up with 7 or 8 - then would be #1.  But he couldnt beat the 5 for a chip.

4.  Stew 3 big bike chips.  This was a bummer as he should have been close to RC but with SX only contracts and his injuries he only got 3 chips.  But damn was he fast and fun to watch.

-MAVERICK-
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4/13/2023 10:29pm
I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro...

I get the chain thing man, but dunge literally only won one race in 2011 SX. Like, one of the weakest SX title defenses besides Fro in 98 and Coop last year. 
 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means.  He lost the title by 10pts. in...

He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means. 

He lost the title by 10pts. in 2011.

His 20th (chain) at Anaheim 2 wrecked his chances. 

Champ: Villopoto 338pts.
12 podiums
6 wins
3x 2nd
2x 3rd 

2nd: Reed 334pts.
11 podiums
2 wins
5x 2nd
4x 3rd

3rd: Dungey 328pts.
13 podiums. 
1 win
6x 2nd
6x 3rd

Remove Dungey's 20th and throw away RV's worst result (9th) and Reed's worst result (8th), and the final standings would look like the following:

Champ: Dungey 327pts.
2nd: Villopoto 326pts.
3rd: Reed 321pts.

Cooper Webb's title defense was weak. He got 4 podiums, no wins, and finished 7th in the standings 81pts. behind Tomac.  

RVs worst finish was a DNQ at Jacksonville 

A DNQ is not a finish. 

One must first qualify in order to finish 1 through 20. 

Can't remove a DNQ if he didn't qualify. 

Johnny Ringo
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4/13/2023 10:30pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means.  He lost the title by 10pts. in...

He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means. 

He lost the title by 10pts. in 2011.

His 20th (chain) at Anaheim 2 wrecked his chances. 

Champ: Villopoto 338pts.
12 podiums
6 wins
3x 2nd
2x 3rd 

2nd: Reed 334pts.
11 podiums
2 wins
5x 2nd
4x 3rd

3rd: Dungey 328pts.
13 podiums. 
1 win
6x 2nd
6x 3rd

Remove Dungey's 20th and throw away RV's worst result (9th) and Reed's worst result (8th), and the final standings would look like the following:

Champ: Dungey 327pts.
2nd: Villopoto 326pts.
3rd: Reed 321pts.

Cooper Webb's title defense was weak. He got 4 podiums, no wins, and finished 7th in the standings 81pts. behind Tomac.  

RVs worst finish was a DNQ at Jacksonville 

-MAVERICK- wrote:

A DNQ is not a finish. 

One must first qualify in order to finish 1 through 20. 

Can't remove a DNQ if he didn't qualify. 

Lmao, ok Mav

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RCMartin406
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4/14/2023 4:16am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2023 4:35am

Lmao, ok Mav

-MAVERICK- wrote:

image-20230414013612-1

RV got gifted a win in 2011 at Atlanta because of James and Reeds shenanigans too. See, every season needs context to determine the best rider for me. A good example is 1992 where the best rider didn’t win the championship, everyone knows and remembers who the best rider that year was, he just choked at the last round.

2011 RV should have 2 less championships and RD should have 2 more championships.

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tomlopez
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Fantasy
4/14/2023 5:53am
Mx4life320 wrote:
A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7.  To me raw talent and speed...

A lot of this has to do with your age. Younger fans will think Tomac. Older Fans will say JS7. 

To me raw talent and speed the list goes like this, JS7 RV2, ET3, RD5. (Guess that means I am older) 

RV beat ET3, so not sure how people are putting him ahead. Yes RV beat JS7 but, what James was in the mid to late 2000's was nothing short of amazing, when he was on. ET3 will be a great. RD5 was just so consistent, he was not often the fastest. But always a 1-2-3 rider. Just my opinion. 

RV beat ET3 when ET3 was an extremely inconsistent and injured rookie. Not saying it doesn't count or anything, but I don't think a handful of races when RV was in his prime and Eli hadn't even completed a full season on a 450 should serve as the end-all be-all of who is/was the better rider. When Villopoto was a rookie, he had a hard time getting podiums - he didn't light a candle to Stewart and Reed. We saw how much that had changed by 2011.

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TDeath21
Posts
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Location
Somewhere, MO, USA
4/14/2023 6:07am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2023 6:08am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means.  He lost the title by 10pts. in...

He might have only gotten one win, but I wouldn't call it a weak title defense by any means. 

He lost the title by 10pts. in 2011.

His 20th (chain) at Anaheim 2 wrecked his chances. 

Champ: Villopoto 338pts.
12 podiums
6 wins
3x 2nd
2x 3rd 

2nd: Reed 334pts.
11 podiums
2 wins
5x 2nd
4x 3rd

3rd: Dungey 328pts.
13 podiums. 
1 win
6x 2nd
6x 3rd

Remove Dungey's 20th and throw away RV's worst result (9th) and Reed's worst result (8th), and the final standings would look like the following:

Champ: Dungey 327pts.
2nd: Villopoto 326pts.
3rd: Reed 321pts.

Cooper Webb's title defense was weak. He got 4 podiums, no wins, and finished 7th in the standings 81pts. behind Tomac.  

TDeath21 wrote:
Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group...

Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group of riders. The path to the championship was being on the box every weekend while those other guys have the occasional bad race. Which they did. Unfortunately, that was all negated through no fault of his own when the chain came off. And again in MX that year with the fuel issue, then the bike malfunction at Southwick. As I said earlier in this thread, Dungey gets the shaft in these polls. Always has always will.

westeast wrote:
RD loses his 2017 SX title if you remove Tomas mechanical at Arlington.      The points system rewards consistency more than wins.  Seems more fans...

RD loses his 2017 SX title if you remove Tomas mechanical at Arlington.   
 

The points system rewards consistency more than wins.  Seems more fans enjoy seeing riders go for race wins vs podiums.  RD was the least exciting to watch from this list.  

Tomac had a mechanical caused by his own crash. Not exactly the same thing.

The question didn’t ask who was the most exciting. Him being less exciting is exactly why people underrate him in these polls. They’d rather see someone push as hard as they can and crash their brains out.

3
mxb2
Posts
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Location
Bowie, MD, USA
4/14/2023 6:21am
TDeath21 wrote:
Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group...

Thank you for doing the work for me! Dungey was never going to be the guy to reel off a ton of wins against that group of riders. The path to the championship was being on the box every weekend while those other guys have the occasional bad race. Which they did. Unfortunately, that was all negated through no fault of his own when the chain came off. And again in MX that year with the fuel issue, then the bike malfunction at Southwick. As I said earlier in this thread, Dungey gets the shaft in these polls. Always has always will.

westeast wrote:
RD loses his 2017 SX title if you remove Tomas mechanical at Arlington.      The points system rewards consistency more than wins.  Seems more fans...

RD loses his 2017 SX title if you remove Tomas mechanical at Arlington.   
 

The points system rewards consistency more than wins.  Seems more fans enjoy seeing riders go for race wins vs podiums.  RD was the least exciting to watch from this list.  

TDeath21 wrote:
Tomac had a mechanical caused by his own crash. Not exactly the same thing. The question didn’t ask who was the most exciting. Him being less...

Tomac had a mechanical caused by his own crash. Not exactly the same thing.

The question didn’t ask who was the most exciting. Him being less exciting is exactly why people underrate him in these polls. They’d rather see someone push as hard as they can and crash their brains out.

Yea i never saw the record books include exciting, most popular, most clicks on social media. Lol. Real fans like to see champions who have put in the hard work to earn their goal.
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