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Just saw this on MXA's website and agree.
The AMA needs a written warning system. The first dangerous incident should get a warning. The second incident should get a points penalty. The third incident should get a three-race suspension. No more fake probations, which are never enforced. Write real rules and make the riders understand them.
How does MXA define what a “dangerous incident” is? For now it seems like they have the same mindset as the AMA, which is that it’s their discretion. So maybe they’re not too unlike each other…
Anyone that backs this concept seemingly has no way to implement a logical system for defining what a “dangerous incident” is without making contact passes illegal almost entirely. I’ve heard Pulp’s take on it: something along the lines of measuring angles in a corner, and at a certain angle, a pass becomes illegal. That’s the most logical take I’ve heard, and at least it’s something. I’m more than willing to hear MXA’s proposed solution for defining criteria that makes a pass over the top.
A dirty move will always be at the discretion of the one's making the call, and it should be since not all incidents are the same and can't be tuned down to a science with measuring angles in a corner. MXA is only pointing out that probation carries with it, very little practical consequences. You can see this when Jason Anderson basically mocked his probation.
We all know what is an F’ed up pass and what isn’t. We let personal bias get in the way though. It’s like in baseball pitchers try to claim it was an accident after being warned when throwing at batters. It’s obvious when it’s an accident. If you whip your bike into a guy instead of away from him, you deserve a suspension no matter how hard you claim you didn’t know he was there etc.
Did you see that when he clearly checked up more than once in the night show when he definitely could have made passes?
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Yes...lets turn our sport into the NFL. Not. We'll need replays and red flags to stop the race and review what happened next.
I'm a lifelong reader of MXA....but I disagree with them on this. We don't need to make our sport soft.
A major T-bone/purposeful dangerous hit...sure. ...but most of this pussy-footing about little take-outs is rediculous.
Anderson being on probation for the Barcia hit is stupid. ...and I'm a Barcia fan, not a big Anderson fan.
I think the only way a "probation" system works is if the competitors decide/vote on any probation. Sort of like fouls in a pick up game.
I also believe there is more to it then the type of pass
1. The race matters, a takeout in the heat race is not the same as a takeout in the LCQ
2. The position matter, a takeout for the lead is not the same as a takeout for 18th. LCQ, 4th place, there is no dirty pass at that point
3. the lap matters, cleaning someone out on the 3rd lap of the main, is not the same as cleaning out someone on the last lap
I think everyone is on the same page that when ZachO passed Savatgy in Vegas for the championship, it was a "dangerous" pass, but I also think that most people would say it should not be penalized
Isn't this just semantics?
Probation = You're on our radar and the next one will bring a penalty
Warning = You're on our radar and the next one will bring a penalty
Whatever happened about having a front wheel on a guy making contact is a clean pass T-Bone a guy or hitting him from behind is not a clean pass that's the way it used to be?
I like the quick escalation of penalties MXA laid out. The judgement call for what’s a “dangerous incident” is tougher, but there’s always a way to make it happen. Maybe a 3 judge panel? 2 out of 3 and the penalty is enforced?
I just know I’m sick of seeing riders on the ground from douchebag passes.
The AMA should make riders add a tooth in the rear every time they perform a 'dangerous incident' on the track.
That'll be more fun
I follow AFL down here in Australia, they have a fairly detailed set of rules for the reporting of classifiable offenses on the field, the review of these offenses, grounds for appeal and then ultimately outcome (fine/suspension). Its not perfect, but its fairly consistent.
Heaps of sporting codes around the world have similar reporting and infringement structures. Surely the AMA could pull a working group or committee together to flesh this out for MX/SX racing.
Here is a link to the tribunal guidelines for last season if anyone is interest in how the AFL define/structure reporting of classifiable offenses:
https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2022/03/15/111be938-8f58-4118-9753-8e9ced332989/2022-AFL-Tribunal-Guidelines.pdf
Good point but the devil is in the details. This only works if the penalty has teeth but doesn't mean anything if the penalty doesn't have weight in it. BamBam keeping his podium finish at SLC didn't strike me as much of a penalty financially given the podium bonuses in top racers contracts.
If the ten points lost and $ fine he paid, cost him more than the podium bonuses then no problem. I am not 100% sure but I'm fairly certain Bam Bam made out with his so called SLC penalty.
Is your last name Anderson?
Jk
I think you may be on to something.
How about require all the participants in a race to watch a video of any questionable incidents and vote yay or nay on it to say whether it was good or not.
Riders only in the room, no team managers or talking heads.
And their vote is on the record, so if they make a questionable call, the rider they voted on will know.
And if ja21 or jb51, or any other rider thinks they can take out a privateer running in 15th after they worked so hard just to finally make a main, then karma will call when they are protested for an incident.
I've been thinking about this and here's how I think a system should work.
The only way a complaint may be started is by a formal complaint lodged by a rider involved in any said incident before leaving race facility. The only exception being if a rider is transported off-site due to injury.
Once a complaint is lodged, all riders in the class get the opportunity to vote within 24 hours on the incident. Non-responses are counted as no votes. If a majority votes in favor a rider is put on "probation." Probation lasts the remainder of the season. Once on probation any on-track contact can be submitted by any competitor, but requires a 2/3 majority to action. Once on probation, one rider voted offense is -10 pts, second offense is one race suspension, and third is suspension for remainder of season.
I don't know if the riders voting would be the best way to deal with it. If they have something to gain from giving another rider a penalty it might change how they vote. But on the other hand , I think that if all the racers are ok with rough riding or takeouts , then It makes it more ok . I personally think that some mix of rider vote and then some AMA officials might work better. A rider vote to get it to a review and then have a panel of people that do not have anything to gain or lose from giving out a penalty or letting something go make the final decision of if a penalty should be handed out. I think keeping the votes anonymous might be better than having to have each rider put their name on something. I think it might help riders vote with more of how they really feel about something . And not be bullied into or out of a vote.
But some consistent way of enforcing the rules the same on everybody would be nice. What if Kawasaki asked the MA to put Anderson on probation to get him to stop ruining his races by messing around and taking people out. Or asked for some other reasoning . Maybe that is why Anderson is on probation and Barcia is not?
I prefer clean racing myself. I think it makes for a longer lasting batlle. I think a lot of the Anderson and Barcai take outs have been dumb moves and that both guys might be finishing better otherwise. But to some extent it is a part of racing and I myself enjoyed riding and banging bars with my racing buddies back when I was racing. And I'm sure a lot of other racers like to race that way too. I think excessive take outs are bad. Like when a racer gets a rep for it ,something should be done. But it needs to be consistently enforced so it has real meaning. I think the fine/penalty level varying is a good idea . That way a guy running in 18th that gets mad and takes out the guy in front of him is not fined an amount that he is unable to pay, and a guy going for a title gets fined more than the back of the pack guy since the racer that is getting taken out has more to lose from that takeout.
How about if you take out another rider , your fine/or finishing position/points or whatever goes to that rider you took out. Take arider out to win the title, boom they get it. Maybe make an exception for LCQ last laps or corners if its something all racers agree on.
Here's the thing about riders using this for gain though, how do you convince 2/3rds of your competitors to vote for your gain? I think any abuse of this system could be dealt with on the track, abuse the system and you hit the dirt, and suddenly your competitors don't seem to care as much about the dirty riding.
I think if you put it in riders hands, reputations and opinions in the pits mean more. Barcia and Ando would be less likely to put everyone on the ground if they thought it might take standings/money out of their pockets.
Pit Row
Make it simple. You're either allowed to make contact or you're not. The degree to which you make contact, might bite ya in the ass the next lap or the next round. Even RC4 said something along the lines of "you know what Barcia is going to do"; if the fuckin' announcer says something like that, probation for anyone else for far less is lame. Anderson has said before that the sanctioning body doesn't like him, it almost seems like he has a point.
It all depends on the penalty . If a penalty is going to drop a rider down in points , it moves would move the other racers up in the points. I guess it would not really matter most of the time. But depending on the penalties it could. I wouldn't think that Field should vote in it either. Anybody that can benefit or have a loss from a penalty should not be involved in deciding who gets it.
I think rider voted penalties would end up with less penalties than if you had people who's only job was to give out penalties
Probation with the AMA is a joke. Until they suspend a rider for a few races nothing will change.
I guess they better start throwing down probations/penalties on some of the best races of the night then....ya know, the LCQs with the hellacious take outs that everyone loves.
What a bunch of hypocrites people are...
Barcia elbow contact on Nichols = bad.
Privateer last lap demolition derby = Good.
I agree with discretion call, but does it matter if Anderson mocks his probation off the track?
It was pretty plain to see his passing attempts were more conservative last weekend, i.e. the probation seemed to have the intended consequences.
As long as MXA aren’t administering their proposed 1, 2, 3 incident policy. Their math skills may not be up to the job:
MXA: printed on the back of the DeCal Works adds for two generations.
The current non intrusive system of penalties is satisfactory. Riders are deterred, the show goes on and in the first instance take outs are not generally causing injuries.
Leave it. The occasional takeout is a vital part of the show.
LCQs (or any race) don’t need takeout moves to be good racing, the riders are motivated and putting out their best effort. But as long as it’s tolerated it’ll happen. DQ a few for takeout moves and the racing will probably be better.
I see what you’re saying about consistency though. And consistency has never been one of AMAs strong points.
I rather let riders police themselves.
I just want consistency.
that came out 5 hours ago from today???
This ^
Post a reply to: MXA take on fake probations