When will you all learn

cpj36
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9/22/2009 8:06pm
Ask any youth rider and see what they want, a 250 4stroke or a 125 2 stroke.
mxrose3 wrote:
Ok, you must have missed the boat on the other topics. You just compared the 125 2 stroke to the 250 Four stroke again. This whole...
Ok, you must have missed the boat on the other topics.
You just compared the 125 2 stroke to the 250 Four stroke again.
This whole argument just went right over your head, just like MX7MX - either that or your fishing.
Nope I didn't miss it. But what adult is going to put their kid on a 250 two stroke.
Oh there would be kids on 250's, we used to have 7 year olds on 85's. I don't know that a 250f is any better for a kid though.

I notice with my girlfriend that when she rides my YZ250 she's pretty timid but biggest problem is falling over and picking it up.

On my 450 she starts going fast enough through corners that I'm always on edge waiting on the ass bust'n that's coming.
kwhite199
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9/22/2009 8:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:18am
Some things just aren't the same on a four stroke




Lightning78
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9/22/2009 8:21pm
Thats on Elsinore's vet track I can't believe some of the jumps he was doing on that 125 I couldn't do on my 250.

cpj36 the 4t's are more beginner friendly than a 2t for sure and I have gotten a lot of riders into this sport on 4t's because putting them on 2t's would be disaster and have seen that firsthand if you grew up on one and aquired the skills to ride one then it's a no brainer but beginner riders into this sport are going to choose the 4t .......till they squeak the engine and get the repair bill..... then they leave the sport because "It's too expensive"

The Shop

motocross377
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Middleboro/Orlando, MA, USA
9/22/2009 9:04pm
althought i have a 250f i want a 250 2 stroke. you have to be silly to not ride a 250 2 stroke in the 250f class if your alowed. the only tihng holding me back is the money to buy one. if you tihnk 2 strokes are dead its probably cuz your just a pussy and cant ride one. if you know what your doing they rip, especially a 250 against 250f
Lightning78
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9/22/2009 9:06pm
not to mention the grin factor even while turning the same lap times is so much better.
lumpy790
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York, SC, USA
9/22/2009 9:16pm
Bought YZ250 new in 2001 .....Bought a 4 stroke and parked it for 2 years when people were low balling me with offers......sold the stroker and rode/ raced it again for 3 years.........just did the 1st motor reb and frame up make over. $1100 total!





PaleBlue
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Essex, GB
9/23/2009 1:07am
The real joy of Motocross is that it's 80% rider / 20% bike. The same cannot be said of any other motor sport.

James Stewart would still win on a two stroke - no question about it!

My boy came 2nd in our club's Open championship on a 250 2t against a field of 450Fs (the guy who won was on a 280F and a better rider). At the last meet these two lapped the entire rest of the field.

What I'm trying to get at is, unless you can ride your bike at 100% it's not the bikes fault if you're not competitive/don't win. If you want to race a two stoke DO IT! it's not likely to change your place in the pecking order - thats down to your riding ability.

Oh, and how many threads can you get on here, that have differnt titles but exactly the same content?
Maber
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HM
9/23/2009 2:03am
kwhite199 wrote:
Some things just aren't the same on a four stroke




There isn't a single bump on that track...
Pat327
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9/23/2009 3:16am
I agree, two strokes are dead and they're never "coming back" in the sense that the assembly lines are going to fire back up and they'll repopulate professional motocross. I'm cool with that. They're just going to get cheaper and cheaper over time, but they'll never stop being fun to restore and ride.

As long as the OEMs keep making parts for them, I'll be a happy camper. Plus, it makes them kind of an underground sort of thing, which is always cool. It's so much fun being the only guy at the track on a 125. I showed up at LACR one day for practice and it was all 4-bangers. I unloaded my YZ250 and the guy parked next to me is like "Hey, a 2-stroke!" It's always good for a conversation and people like to watch you ride every now and then.

They can coexist just fine.
catatonic
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Cape cod, MA, USA
9/23/2009 3:34am
[b]2strokes are dead[/b] Give up on them. Two strokes are the 8 tracks of motocross. The factories don't want them anymore. Pros don't want them no...
2strokes are dead Give up on them. Two strokes are the 8 tracks of motocross. The factories don't want them anymore. Pros don't want them no matter what you think. Outside of a few hard core guys, local guys don't want them. Bitch all you want, but moto guys spend thousands of dollars on shit they don't need. What is a grand on repairs? GET IT THROUGH YOU THICK HEADS...TWO STROKES ARE DEAD
Why does it bother some people so much that some guys are die hard two stroke fans.
Flatlander
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Swindon, GB
9/23/2009 4:24am
Its only because the rules are bent to make us all go 4 stroke, let the 2 stroke back on an equal with the 4 strokes and then we will see!
racin mason
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Long Beach, WA, USA
9/23/2009 5:14am
Here is my analogy of the 2 vs 4 debate.If the NBA passed a rule that stated white guys could be 7 feet tall and black guys could only be 3 foot 6, you wouldnt see to many black guys playing basketball.This is exactly what the dumbasses at the AMA has done to moto-cross....
Kinetic1
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Gun Lake, MI, USA
9/23/2009 5:37am
Having owned both I will keep my 2t even though I am a smidge faster on the 4t. Well 5 seconds a lap is not really a smidge but still. My 2t is WAY more fun.
Rupert X
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Newark, OH, USA
9/23/2009 6:06am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:19am


A. How many thousands of kids STILL race 50-85 cc TWO-STROKES ? Do you see any changes coming in those classes ?


B: Weed-whackers, chain-saws and outboard motors, still mostly two-cycles, dammit.


C; Local race this wknd, three top kids in pro class dicing ALL on 2 smokers. Ten total in class.


D: $1500 (at least) to do a proper top-end rebuild on a four-fagger, maybe $600 on a smoker.


E: Your honor, I rest my magnesium cases and adjourn for a smoke of Bel-Ray.





prillernut
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Chapel Hill, NC, USA
9/23/2009 6:35am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:19am
I wouldn't declare we've seen the end of widespread production 2-strokes, never to be seen again...


Husky and the Big 4 Japanese companies brought the 2-stroke to power in this sport, ending a period in which 4 strokes ruled. I saw John Banks campaign a lone 4-stroke, a factory BSA, in the Trans-AMA series - it was cool, you could hear that big ol' BSA from anywhere on the track. Never thought it could be a real threat though, or ever see widespread high performance 4-strokes take over. The balance of power has changed unforseeably a couple of times before - to say it will not happen again may be premature. You never can tell... history teaches that apparently unchangeable things may just happen to change....
Kinetic1
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Gun Lake, MI, USA
9/23/2009 6:44am
Kinetic1 wrote:
Having owned both I will keep my 2t even though I am a smidge faster on the 4t. Well 5 seconds a lap is not really...
Having owned both I will keep my 2t even though I am a smidge faster on the 4t. Well 5 seconds a lap is not really a smidge but still. My 2t is WAY more fun.
I should also mention here that I was 5 seconds a lap faster on the 4t mostly because it was a KTM525SX. I am 5 seconds a lap slower on my friends 250 4t than on my RM250 2t.
Macdaddy
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Beverly Hills, CA, USA
9/23/2009 7:35am
Why on earth would you want to put a smaller kid coming from 80s on a 250f? Because that's "the" competitive bike. Most kids coming from 80s would be better on a 125, which is why there's schoolboy class in amateur. But how many classes are there in the ama are there for the 125t too be competitive in? 1. How many for a 250f? 3 or 4.
-eagle-
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ZW
9/23/2009 7:44am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:19am
"What is a grand on repairs?"

On my racing budget:
Thats 8 big races a set of tires & a new oem top end for my cr250.
OW38B
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Coto de Caza, CA, USA
9/23/2009 7:46am
[b]2strokes are dead[/b] Give up on them. Two strokes are the 8 tracks of motocross. The factories don't want them anymore. Pros don't want them no...
2strokes are dead Give up on them. Two strokes are the 8 tracks of motocross. The factories don't want them anymore. Pros don't want them no matter what you think. Outside of a few hard core guys, local guys don't want them. Bitch all you want, but moto guys spend thousands of dollars on shit they don't need. What is a grand on repairs? GET IT THROUGH YOU THICK HEADS...TWO STROKES ARE DEAD
catatonic wrote:
Why does it bother some people so much that some guys are die hard two stroke fans.
It's MX7MX posting with another name........
Rupert X
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Newark, OH, USA
9/23/2009 8:02am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:19am


...>"WHEN they remove the Ratio-Rite from my cold....dead.....hands......" - Rupert X / 1977




Put that in your twin-pipe, 2 $ grand rebuild four strokes, messieues and madames....
bvm111
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Las Vegas, NV, USA
9/23/2009 8:10am
[b]2strokes are dead[/b] Give up on them. Two strokes are the 8 tracks of motocross. The factories don't want them anymore. Pros don't want them no...
2strokes are dead Give up on them. Two strokes are the 8 tracks of motocross. The factories don't want them anymore. Pros don't want them no matter what you think. Outside of a few hard core guys, local guys don't want them. Bitch all you want, but moto guys spend thousands of dollars on shit they don't need. What is a grand on repairs? GET IT THROUGH YOU THICK HEADS...TWO STROKES ARE DEAD
Devil1nNj wrote:
I own a smoker, and I can't agree more. The dude who posted referring to getting a million signatures on a, 2t class placement thing in...
I own a smoker, and I can't agree more.
The dude who posted referring to getting a million signatures on a, 2t class placement thing in AMA racing made me chortle as well.
I think whenever there is a major advancement in life people will have hang-ups. If only the internet was around when we ditched curly phone chords. I can imagine what the big-brother types would have been posting then.... LoL
the only major advancement 4 strokes had was displacement..... i want to see a 125cc superior 4 stroke compete with 125cc inferior 125cc 2 stroke, and the same with a 250.... this is when your argument for 4 strokes dies. So I guess to answer the question of the thread, and I retort, when will you learn that CC to CC a 2 stroke is superior to a four stroke, if it wasn't why would you need all those extra CC's?Whistling
Cygnus
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Hanover, CO, USA
9/23/2009 8:17am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2009 8:20am
With over 100 hrs on my 450 I would have done 4 top ends on my CR250. So far for me the thumper has been cheaper to maintain. I will do a crank up rebuild this winter for about 800.00 It will be really close to even on maintenance after that. I am trying to sell an almost new CR85RB so I can buy a 125 for the trails the 450 is a bit much in the tight stuff.
englishman
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England, GB
9/23/2009 8:18am
Two strokes are like flares and hip huggers they may go away for a while but they'll be back and everyone will think they are the coolest shite .

x2 BVM111 when you make a bike that can only be competitive by having twice the capacity of the class it's designed for that's lame.

That'd be like having a 12 year old kid racing against a bunch of 6 year olds and everybody saying how great he is 'cos he's riding circles around them.
Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX, USA
9/23/2009 8:27am
Kinetic1 wrote:
Having owned both I will keep my 2t even though I am a smidge faster on the 4t. Well 5 seconds a lap is not really...
Having owned both I will keep my 2t even though I am a smidge faster on the 4t. Well 5 seconds a lap is not really a smidge but still. My 2t is WAY more fun.
Kinetic1 wrote:
I should also mention here that I was 5 seconds a lap faster on the 4t mostly because it was a KTM525SX. I am 5 seconds...
I should also mention here that I was 5 seconds a lap faster on the 4t mostly because it was a KTM525SX. I am 5 seconds a lap slower on my friends 250 4t than on my RM250 2t.
So you have a 10 second lap time difference from a 450 4 stroke to a 250 4 stroke?

That's too much man. Should be 2-3 seconds tops.
Adam43
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WF
9/23/2009 8:36am
I love my 450 and it has been a great bike, both to ride and to maintain.

250Fs are a different story, they are murdering the sport economically. Rebuilds are putting families out of the game, and it even keeps people from taking up the sport in the first place.

lumpy790
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York, SC, USA
9/23/2009 8:48am
bvm111 wrote:
the only major advancement 4 strokes had was displacement..... i want to see a 125cc superior 4 stroke compete with 125cc inferior 125cc 2 stroke, and...
the only major advancement 4 strokes had was displacement..... i want to see a 125cc superior 4 stroke compete with 125cc inferior 125cc 2 stroke, and the same with a 250.... this is when your argument for 4 strokes dies. So I guess to answer the question of the thread, and I retort, when will you learn that CC to CC a 2 stroke is superior to a four stroke, if it wasn't why would you need all those extra CC's?Whistling
Your dead wrong on you analogy. Compare apples to apples......a 1998 XR400 to a 1998 YZ400F. Night and day different. The YZF made major HP gains and a much more compact lower weight bike. If the YZ400F had not made huge technological leaps every one would still be on 2 strokes.
Devil1nNj
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Hewitt, NJ, USA
9/23/2009 9:09am
althought i have a 250f i want a 250 2 stroke. you have to be silly to not ride a 250 2 stroke in the 250f...
althought i have a 250f i want a 250 2 stroke. you have to be silly to not ride a 250 2 stroke in the 250f class if your alowed. the only tihng holding me back is the money to buy one. if you tihnk 2 strokes are dead its probably cuz your just a pussy and cant ride one. if you know what your doing they rip, especially a 250 against 250f
My buddy did it in 07, and he owns.
He actually loves 2ts and said he will never do it again.
He does count on the contingincy to help finance his racing, so I'll have to ask him if he really loved it more, and it due to money, or if he hated the whole experience.

He ran a KX250 in the am 250f class, and said there is about 1 moto a day where the 2t is perfect, the other 3 are too wet, to dry, etc, to be competing against a superior tracking bike in almost all conditions.
CR500Rider
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San Antonio, TX, USA
9/23/2009 9:20am
Only because of the displacement advantage but surely you're smart enough to know that. Let them throw equal displacement into the classes, you know, the same way it's been since the start of the sport, and you'll see every satellite team wedging a 2 stroke engine into a modern chassis. You'd have to be plumb ass stupid (or a purebred novice) to think a 4 stroke of equal displacement is "better" for all out racing but we don't get to witness that do we? Ask yourself why. Who is scared their 4 stroke myth won't come true? The same people who are pocketing your money in repair and parts costs. On another note, there's no better satisfaction than beating the snot out of the owner of a huge motorcycle shop (who sponsers a few national caliber riders) with all his spare engines and wheels with tires mounted ready to go while riding an antique. Watching a grown man sling a $500 helmet into his toy hauler cause he got beat by an antique is quite rewarding. So how are they better again? They're certainly not "faster" cc for cc. There's an old saying in the hot rod world. "There's no replacement for displacement". Make it even and the 4 stroke will be relegated back to trail riders, novices and pit bikes. Seriously, how slow would a 125cc 4 stroke MX bike be? It wouldn't even be competitive in the 85cc class.
suzrider982
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275
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Kingston, NY, USA
9/23/2009 9:44am Edited Date/Time 9/23/2009 9:45am
a two stroke makes you work to be faster as a four stroke u can be a lazy rider and go just as fast. But if you have a kid ride a 2 stroke and get him fast on that , and then put him on a 4 stroke he will so much faster

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