2022 GG EX 350
Forks/Shock done by FC. Went up 1 spring rate in the shock, and the settings they provided are generally pretty good (or so I thought). I ride 80% fast and flowy single track and 20% track/ sandpit tracks.
Today I was spinning some laps around a hammered loop at my local pit. My buddy just rebuilt and revalved a 2011 CRF250. We swapped bikes for a couple laps… my mind was blown. Despite his bars being too tall and levers being too low for me, I was instantly comfortable. I wasn’t wrestling the front wheel from skating all over the place, and it tracked through ruts with ease. No diving in turns, no deflecting off bumps.
I’ve been riding KTMs for the last 5 years, and therefore WP airforks for the same amount of time… have I really forgotten how much better spring forks are, or is my setup just way off?
I have the exact same bike and my guess is your set up is a ways off. I rode a Husky recently that had cone valves on it while they were better in a few areas not the drastic difference you are talking about. Make sure your air pressure is right, air bled in both forks ( I know someone who did not bleed both forks of air) and set your clickers back to factory if you have moved them. I like my forks in most areas, a lot of people seem to have issues with the air forks though.
Is he valves for the same type riding as you? It’s really impossible to compare suspension on two different bikes. There’s a lot more variables at play then just the suspension.
I have the 22 MC350 and have been struggling with harshness in forks on landings and breaking bumps. I have tried multiple pressures, clicker settings, and bleed between each moto. I tried my buddies 450 with KYB conversion and needless to say, I instantly put in an order for the spring conversion. I had 2 buddies ride it and they both agreed the forks are harsh. IMO they may be better than old air forks, but still not comfortable or plush by any means and I have 20 hours of trying different settings on them.
How’s your shock setup? A shock that is too soft on spring or valving will create harsh feelings in the fork. That said can’t go wrong with spring conversion.
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Went up shock spring to set for my weight. Went in on rebound to compensate for heavier spring. Before going in on rebound the shock would kick out badly because the spring was overpowering the valving.
I am sure a good revalve would improve the air, but it’s still air. On average I have to adjust the air pressure 3-4 times over the course of a ride day because the pressure builds as it gets hotter in the day and hotter from each moto.
It's a common theme on all these bikes with heavier and taller riders that poor shock setup magnifies harsh feeling with the air forks. The air forks get really good when the shock is significantly stiffened up and the bikes holds up better.
He and I are the same weight, so his is valved correctly for me. I think the next time I ride that sand loop on my 350, I’m going to go way in on compression… maybe 10 clicks front and rear and then soften it up from there. Keep in mind that my bike is set up primarily for singletrack (mid-fast B class speed), and I usually go in 6 clicks when I’m on a typical track. That’s usually the sweet spot. The twitchy-ness and diving in deep inside corners on my bike was just really noticeable after riding his.
Also @MX510 - the air pressure is set correctly per FC recommendations (120lbs). I questioned them on this because it sounded light, but they confirmed that it’s correct for their valving and my weight. I feel like a lot of people mess with air pressure like it’s a secondary compression clicker setting, but FC says the air pressure is your spring rate, and you wouldn’t randomly swap springs on a KYB or Showa fork. Forks are bled before every ride, and when I check my air pressure before and after, it’s usually within 1lb from the initial setting.
I get they say that is correct and it is the spring rate. Big difference is air is free and a lot easier to change than springs. 120psi sounds insanely low for a 350. I'd be trying higher air pressures just to see what the effect is.
Stock air pressure is about 140 psi on a 350 off-road bike. It is even higher for MX. The '21+ air forks get pretty harsh if you run the pressure too low and that is for a slower rider. I would think it would be even worse for a faster rider. 120 psi might be good for hard enduro?
I will say whatever KTM did to the 2023 fork/shock/frame the front end is much more stable than the older bike.
My understanding of suspension mechanics is pretty elementary, but I have to assume that the valve stack FC implemented in my forks is complemented by the lower air pressure that they advised. They know my weight and have a basic understanding of my skill level. I get what FGR01 is saying, but it seems to add another component of complication if I start messing with the spring rate (air pressure). I think I’m just going to crank the compression clickers in and see what happens. If it’s still diving through the stroke, then you guys are probably right, and I need to up the air pressure and call FC.
Hopefully, this doesn’t send me down the wormhole of chasing the feeling of those Showa spring forks.
If your set up for fast flowy single track and go to ride a whooped out sand track your setup is going to be off for sure. You probably will need to up your air and compression dampening.
120 psi is like a .42 fork spring. I bet that Honda you rode had at least a .46 if not .48 or .5.
Call FC? They offer good backup. Likely they'll give you a checklist of things before they tear anything apart.
Highly likely the CRF is going to have good MX valving and good tires, whereas you gas gas might have an enduro setting in it that won't work well on a hammered turn track.
I called Factory Connection. Those guys are really top notch and took the time to talk through the issues and offer some options. Basically, the bike is way too soft right now for a whooped out sand turn track, and they suggested going much stiffer on the clickers, front and rear. They also suggested adding a couple clicks of rebound. They also suggested that I substantially increase the SAG, which kind of caught me off guard. I'm at 107 right now, but they said go to 110-115... I said that the spring will probably be loose at 115, but they told me to get as close as possible. Seems that they want to chopper it out a bit so it's not as divey. I'm going to start with the clickers and go from there. I'll mess with the SAG if it's still super twitchy. Lastly, they confirmed again that 120psi is the correct air setting, and that it's not something to mess with (yet).
It's going to ride low in the front with 120 psi. That is probably why they have you dropping the sag to 115. With normal fork settings you could probably go to ~110 on the rear for sand. You can also drop the forks in the clamps to get the nose up. That will help a fair amount on any bike no matter how it is set up.
bahahahaha
I get the theory that air is just like a spring and you wouldn't change springs like that BUT that is one of the perks of using air. Play with the air. Its easy as hell to just set it back to where it was... My son has his base setting and we often toggle back and forth about 4-5 PSI depending on the track. When tracks get hammered and whooped out he often feels like the front end is diving. We go higher on the PSI just to make the forks hold up in the stroke a little better.
I like all of the guys at FC but they do notoriously set stuff up super soft.
I’ve been meaning to update…
So I got pretty aggressive with clicks last weekend, and basically settled on 4 clicks out on the forks and shock (from 12 clicks for my single track settings). This was pretty solid - no more diving and much less skatey/chatter. My next step is to play with rebound… Keefer and FC have a general opinion that for ever 2 clicks compression you go 1 click opposite on rebound.
I’m not really bottoming out, so I’m still not sold on changing the air pressure, but I get where everyone is coming from.
Pit Row
Another follow up for anyone struggling with WP settings. In addition to the settings above, I went 2 clicks softer on rebound on the forks and shock. This was absolutely mint for the whooped out sandtrack that I was riding. I could maybe go another click on compression front/rear, but these settings made the bike night and day better from what it was.
TLDR: If you're struggling with front end chatter and instability in the sand or faster tracks, don't be afraid to get aggressive with stiffening the compression clickers on the WP equipment. Additionally, to achieve some plushness as you make things stiffer, soften the rebound 1 click for every 2-3 clicks you go in on compression.
Your setup might be great for racing and charging hard for 5 laps but terrible for comfort. The air fork do work decently when you push them but they are skittish on the small stuff.
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