Posts
2831
Joined
3/24/2009
Location
Nor Cal, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time
1/25/2012 2:08pm
Hows the fan experience changed for the better in the last 30 years..? Whats the draw to bring people back..? and to grow the fan base..?..don't put the cart before the horse.
Considering the economy and its DC and companies first year. MXsports / Allisports have done a pretty damn good job of bringing some change to the sport and having smooth events. Mostly on the business side with TV coverage, Event format and day of the event. I'm asking about the average fan experience at one of the events...
Motocross's paying customer is the fan. The customer service SUCKS. From viewing the race. Too you sometimes get the feeling that you're a second class citizen in the pits, around a lot of the riders and team personal ( not all but very inconsistent ). Its kind of like the difference between a zoo and a petting zoo, it should be more like a petting zoo.
More grandstand areas around the tracks..? If it means changing the track layout(small section) so be it. A great place for some grandstands at HT stretching from the starting line over to the finish line area. and then maybe more then 50 people could hear and see the podium speech's. Just seams like everything is more important then the Paying customer.
What did we get for our 80 bucks...? no where to sit, terrible food vendors, closed pits after the race's, and when they where open no riders to be found and if they where out they mostly seem to acknowledge people they knew, We saw more parents then riders and had more conversations with parents..?( Thanks BobbyM ).. This is what I've come to expect at an outdoor MX( at least HT & GH ) and that might work for some but what about the wife or the folks that want to try something new, what's the draw to bring them back...? Repeat customers are what we are looking for. Same riders at the SX(except you know who) and consistently bigger crowds... why..? I say Fan experience....
Can't corporate sponsored food vendors like Subway, panda express, Carl's, Wendy's or something of that sort be gotten as vendors/sponsors. Not sure how you'd go about getting that kind of contract together, but isn't that possible..? We bought a burrito for 9 bucks at HT that I wouldn't feed my dog.
Pro golf tourney's have great VOLUNTEERS( that actually pay to volunteer )..And get a cool volunteer package. They do a great job of helping run the event.(flaggers maybe)
As far as the things Rup and Shenzi hit on, to much wishful thinking.
1. Safety, The only real way to make the sport any safer is the tracks themselves. Imagine a YOUNG Roger D or Bob H on a new 450, In they're day the bike was actually the safety, if they rode the bike to hard it broke in two...!Riding gear is as good as it will get, the body is exposed. Nobody rag dolls in a nascar. Its like Indy cars, there is a chance your going to get your legs mangled. Unfortunately a broken neck is all too real a chance ALL dirt bike riders face. More so now then ever, because of the tracks not riding gear.
Keep working on improving the event formats and the programs themselves, but someone better start really looking at it from a fan stand point if anything is going to really change. EVERYTHING is tied how many people are watching and is the fan base growing..... Is It....? We can't blame it all on the economy.
Considering the economy and its DC and companies first year. MXsports / Allisports have done a pretty damn good job of bringing some change to the sport and having smooth events. Mostly on the business side with TV coverage, Event format and day of the event. I'm asking about the average fan experience at one of the events...
Motocross's paying customer is the fan. The customer service SUCKS. From viewing the race. Too you sometimes get the feeling that you're a second class citizen in the pits, around a lot of the riders and team personal ( not all but very inconsistent ). Its kind of like the difference between a zoo and a petting zoo, it should be more like a petting zoo.
More grandstand areas around the tracks..? If it means changing the track layout(small section) so be it. A great place for some grandstands at HT stretching from the starting line over to the finish line area. and then maybe more then 50 people could hear and see the podium speech's. Just seams like everything is more important then the Paying customer.
What did we get for our 80 bucks...? no where to sit, terrible food vendors, closed pits after the race's, and when they where open no riders to be found and if they where out they mostly seem to acknowledge people they knew, We saw more parents then riders and had more conversations with parents..?( Thanks BobbyM ).. This is what I've come to expect at an outdoor MX( at least HT & GH ) and that might work for some but what about the wife or the folks that want to try something new, what's the draw to bring them back...? Repeat customers are what we are looking for. Same riders at the SX(except you know who) and consistently bigger crowds... why..? I say Fan experience....
Can't corporate sponsored food vendors like Subway, panda express, Carl's, Wendy's or something of that sort be gotten as vendors/sponsors. Not sure how you'd go about getting that kind of contract together, but isn't that possible..? We bought a burrito for 9 bucks at HT that I wouldn't feed my dog.
Pro golf tourney's have great VOLUNTEERS( that actually pay to volunteer )..And get a cool volunteer package. They do a great job of helping run the event.(flaggers maybe)
As far as the things Rup and Shenzi hit on, to much wishful thinking.
1. Safety, The only real way to make the sport any safer is the tracks themselves. Imagine a YOUNG Roger D or Bob H on a new 450, In they're day the bike was actually the safety, if they rode the bike to hard it broke in two...!Riding gear is as good as it will get, the body is exposed. Nobody rag dolls in a nascar. Its like Indy cars, there is a chance your going to get your legs mangled. Unfortunately a broken neck is all too real a chance ALL dirt bike riders face. More so now then ever, because of the tracks not riding gear.
Keep working on improving the event formats and the programs themselves, but someone better start really looking at it from a fan stand point if anything is going to really change. EVERYTHING is tied how many people are watching and is the fan base growing..... Is It....? We can't blame it all on the economy.
And bring at least 1 new spectator.
High Point in 1978 was my 1st nat.......the names have changed but most of the show is the same.....till this year....... MX Sports has implemented many changes....some dont agree with them.....some do. I say give them time as it is certainly better.
lmao
!!!!
good post chris....and i thing mx is better for fans but worse for MOST riders in this day and age.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
When I go to a race, all I really expect from the experience is a race. To me, if people can't handle some walking and some dust, they aren't cut out for moto-spectating.
No offense Clutchy, but what other pro sport allows people to sit around and make small talk with the competitors? I don't see t hem opening the locker room at a football stadium to the fans, or allowing fans to hang out in a NASCAR or F1 pit.
Actually it was on the downside in 86 when the Works bikes were gone.
MX Sports has made some noticeable improvements to the race format for sure; it's up to the facilities to step up now. Somebody sic RupX on 'em...
We either want the sport to grow and prosper or not. Why not make it a better environment for the fan. Its no longer cheap to go to the moto's. 40 bucks gets you a pretty good seat at a ball game or a couple days at a pga event, in a much nicer environment. Personally I've been to some of the muddiest moto's EVER... hangtown baby. I want to see the sport grow and that will only happen by putting more bodies at the race track.
And what pro sports give you access to the athlete, actually Nascar is one followed by Pro Golf, MLB get there for bp and you will have a blast, world of outlaw sprint car racing, Drag Racing big time its all about the fans. So IMO moto needs to do some catch up.
and no offense taken......
I really believe it wont get much better for the riders in outdoor until they realize its all about the paying customer/ Fan... without the fans you dont have shit.
Us motoheads would still go to the races if they hit us in the head with a bat on the way in, but what about the general sports fan...
I brought a few MX virgins to GH this year. These guys are casual fans of the sport and go to one SX race every year (basically about 90% of the people at an SX) and they didn't like the national at all... Not for lack of racing or excitement, but for the obnoxiously loud bikes, long program, and lack of bang for your buck. When casual fans who have at least some interest in the sport think going to a national "sucks" there is a problem.
60,000 fans at an outdoor at $40 is 2.4 million, you dont have to rent a stadium, dont have to pay to build a track.... Put some fans in the stands and alls good for everyone.
At least with the program part, someone can show up at noon or 1pm and not miss any moto and for those like me that want to be there to hear the first bike start and hit the track heading for the duck or die jump...im allll good.
Better than 10 years ago? Probably, but not so dramatically. It can definitely be better, and I think there are two avenues for that. One may be problematic, in that infrastructure costs a ton of money up front without any guarantee of return. The second, program, just requires some flexibility, creativity and foresight with respect to how sponsor obligations are structured.
So, yeah, there's much that can be done. But I think much of the immediate energy and limited resources have been on TV this year (great but a work in progress), which makes sense given the teams' need to leverage sponsorships from TV exposure and the fact that more fans watch races on the box (or the net) each weekend than are at the track.
We brought motocross indoors and called it supercross. Now ya want to bring supercross outdoors.
There is a price to pay for two mile long tracks and 30 minute motos. Outdoor motocross is hard on the fan in many ways and it takes a special individual to tough it out. Even if you lined the track with bleachers all the way around.
I'll bet the ratio of actual riders to non riders is not even close at a National compared to a Supercross.
By the way how is road racing doing in the spectator department? They have it all. A friend of mine went to a recent one and he said the stands were pretty empty?
Track prep dept.
Not even close Plymouth was freaking perfect. And to go apples to apples the first year HT moved to Prarie city 1978 the track conditions and prep are no different, (The track did used to be a little more hard pan). if it rains then it rains. And screw smoothing out the track between moto's, put some water on it and race your scooter.
Shitty food vendors then shitty food vendors now.......Although at the 1976 HT 70% or so camped at the race track, so the good food was back at the camper trailer. Still i say a push in food vendors..crappy food is crappy food.
access to the track...... seriously do we even need to discuss this one..6 foot chain link fencing is for schools and prisons. 1976 HT no question.
Fan experience with the riders... seriously do we need to talk about this...?spend ten minutes with Sugar bear, Radical, Jammer,Magoo and get back with me. 1976 HT.
infrastructure...? what some people have spoke about is UNREASONABLE.. I'm talking about moveable grandstands, not air conditioned flushing toilet bathrooms. 50,000 spectators x $40 = 2 MILLION dollars in gate alone.
So IMO 1976 HT had better track and prep
Actually GH had pretty good food vendors, but where over priced. give that to 2009.
Access to track for viewing. 1976 HT
Fan experience with and around riders.. 1976 HT
FTE.. IMO in 33 years its gotten worse not better or just stayed the same
P.S... You take some of the best photo's.....
If Hangtown is your measure, then absolutely there was better track access at Plymouth and initially at Prairie City. (Washougal and some other tracks still have that type of access.) But you only really saw what was right in front of you at Plymouth, unlike PC. And the track prep and dust control at PC is soooooooo much better in the last ten years than it ever was before.
The other factor for HT at least is that the race used to be much earlier in the spring, which is a lot more optimal for MX, at least in NorCal, than the present schedule.
Pit Row
Is that how Mark Hilton feels.. If thats how you feel you are a fugging IDIOT.
Ever been to a 12 inning day game in july...? I saw a dude burst into flames once. All outdoor summer sports take a special individual to bear the elements...?
I'm willing to bet there's just as many riders at a SX as MX, its just the fan experience at SX is one that will bring out the average sports fan also.
What does road racing have to do with it..? should we also compare the WNBA..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Does Mark know you are the voice of dirt diggers...lol
TV Package, Lucas Oil Title Sponsor , 1 day formats, & age requirements.
My previous 16 years of attending nationals:
Didn't have this many changes combined.
I am no different than anyone else and could nitpick a few issues but for the most part I think its in better hands. MX vs SX is apples to oranges when are trying to please a casual fan.
I'll be the first to admit that PC is a rock pile!
But to say there have been no improvements at PC since its been there is absurd!
Access to the track is simply a result of lawsuits by spectators and insurance requirements. We have no choice but to have a fence around the track.
Fan experience with the riders is out of our hands. It is up to the santioning body and the pro teams what happens in the pits. The more a rider is paid the less likely he will give you the time of day.
Access to track for viewing. That is a problem. Its is a constant struggle balancing this with sponsor hospitality, rider safety(easy access), spectator safety, and miles of banners that are too high, and now HUGE areas close to the track for live TV crews! I will give you that.
PC used too be pretty hard pan in the early days, water made it a slip and slide in the afternoon. but was never a dust bowl like lets say dixon.. Ok so I'll even give you that one, that track prep overall is better now, I wont say way better but better..
Aside from track prep hows the overall fan experience way better now...?
I am not the voice of the dirt diggers. These are my opinions only. Right or wrong they are mine.
If I'm so wrong then go out there and put on a National and change it!
I gave Props to DC and company for all the good changes that they've made in that area.
And for me I'm not really saying I dont have a great time at the outdoors. Hell I drove 400+ miles to go to hangtown this year. I am crusty that way and am used to it. That was not the point of the post.
At what point is someone going to realize that the growth of the sport is in putting bodies at the race track... I just keep hearing people talk about changes that need to be made in format, riders safety( neck braces), age limits and different classes, some of which I think would be good. But its putting the cart before the horse.
Lets hear about how we can improve the racing fans experience at the track to bring more bodies to the races. I absolutely believe that spectator numbers are the key to success. Everything else will follow. The WNBA gets live TV coverage, but theres no one in the stands.
Customer service is the key to all (paying customer driven business's). Unless we want motocross to be the walmart of sports and if thats the case then spectating fee's should be $6 bucks. people are paying nordstroms prices and getting walmart service.
Without spectators attending these races, buying bikes, and gear these guys would be hanging drywall not collecting big money.
With an attitude like this national motocross will die, eventually people will be fed-up and even true fans will start staying at home and watching the TV package. DC injected some life into the series this year but in my opinion without intervention MX would've been on life support.
Bottom line is that it's expensive for what you get, and if you want new fresh money coming in and supporting the sport and industry you don't need first timers leaving these events saying they'll never be back.
If your user name is dirtdigger and you are a dirt digger then you my friend are being a voice for that group, which i'm sure Mark wouldnt apreciate...?
Just admit that saying " The fans the problem " was bone headed....
A bit crazy with the vernacular of a drunkin sailor just returning from a Taiwanese prison with a keg and raider posters in your room....YEEEEHHHAAAWWWWWW
I did not say the problem was the motocross fan. I have no problem with the motocross fan! I AM ONE! I did not call out anybody.
The problem is with the general "fan" out there that we think that will flock to our races if we make everything plush for them by spending millions of dollars that is just not there.
I am no English scholar so properly getting my point across may not be as good as some.
Here is what I mean!
1)Most often the participant comes before the fan. First you participate, then you become the fan.
2)The the initial buyin into our wonderful sport can not reach the masses. ESPECIALLY now with tough times.
Anyone can play baseball, football, soccer, golf, basketball ect. It takes very little money to do so. Heck you can play them for free in most highschools across America. Do well enough and they'll even throw in a free college education!
Riding in your own back yard or acreage is against the law. So dad also has to have a gass guzzling pick up to drive to the nearest track or OHV park to boot.
Most people own a car. Fans are easy to come by. Anyone that drives a car can identify with NASCAR.
It takes a few thousand bucks to get into riding a dirt biking at a minimum. The general public would be shocked at the price of a nice new CRF450 or CR80 if they walked into a shop.
3)We are limited by the shear toughness of our sport. Just about anyone can throw around a baseball in the back yard, put Billy or Cindy in little league and you have an instant participant and likely fan. Motocross is hard!
4)Most parents out there think anyone who puts a kid on a dirt bike should be turned into CPS. How many of you have been chastised by the doc and nurses when you tell him that little Billy busted open his chin riding a dirtbike? Ive been chastised myself by doctors telling me I'm too old to "ride those things". I'm only 40! I got 40 more in me I figure! Hell I'm young in the Senior class. They think were nuts!
5)Public perception is huge. We have the whole anti dirtbike environmentalists that will convince you we are tearing up and poisioning Mother Earth. We have a public that is ok with a Harley breaking the sound barrier but a dirtbike out in the middle of knowhere must be 96dbs. One kid going through the gears down some neiborhood street on his clapped out yz125 is all it takes for a whole community to not like dirtbikes. No offense but the whole Crusty Demon movement was not what most moms want their kid a part of.
We have groups of people dedicated to closing off riding areas and lawyers closing tracks.
We are politically incorrect!(I like that) We are not a mainstream sport, and most of us are not mainstream people.(I like that too)
I dont believe that it is the facilities as much as just the nature of motocross that keeps it from being as big as NASCAR or stick and ball sports. Thats goes with viewing it as well!
Just look at supercross. All the facilities, twice the spectators, same sponsors.
Can you explain this part of your response for me?
"the growth of the sport is bodies at the track"
" the spectator #'s are the key to success"
then in the next sentence you say, WNBA gets live tv with nobody in the stands.
I'll tell you how it got better in the past 12 months:
Last weekend a few of my friends came over at 8pm. We grilled, chilled and watched 3 hours of motocross. 1hr from last week and 2 hours of same day coverage in a prime time slot. During that time you could see the investment that Lucas made while the rest of the country is cutting back. MX related commercials littered throughout. This weekend I"m gonna drive 5 hours to a one day format, and be home for Sunday.
Once again mx vs sx to the casual fan is apples to oranges. If its any consolation i've been to 3 world of outlaw events in the past year and the attendance has been smaller or equal to a national at each of them. Thats with open pits, merch trailers and infrastructure galore.
You seem very negitive. Sounds like you should get away from it because it doesnt stand a chance.
Motocross doesnt need to be as big as NASCAR or MLB to be successful. I took my wife to hangtown, her first national( 5 months pregnant even ) she never complained and we had a good time. She was rooting for IT and CR, but with the product that we got for $80 I'm not sure she'll go back to another. Make a couple of tweeks to the product and her opinion would be different.
Bleechers/grandstands..shit maybe even have a food vendor right behind them.. or a mile away your choice..
Accessablity to the riders/pits all day( and even maybe teach the riders the importance of the spectator/fan/paying customer )......too many riders are terrible representatives of the sport and they're sponsors
food as good as the state fair at least..
cleaned throughtout the day port a potties...
None of this cost millions of dollars to provide... Just common sense
Post a reply to: Hows the fan experience changed for the better in the last 30 years..?