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Btw...I wear one....feel wierd without it now...kinda like forgetting my knee braces at home.
None of us know it, nor do we know if there are other areas.
What if you're 1/2 as likely to suffer a C1-C6 fracture, but 5x more likely to suffer a C7?
Would you still rather risk it?
This is why data matters. Not Data, data.
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It is tragic when a rider goes down and suffers any injury.
So I ask this question, Should a track make it mandatory to show proof of health insurance to ride? In a sport where an injury will occur, most likely not life altering, but a trip to the emergency room none the less, do you ride or race without the ability to take care of yourself in the unlikely event of a major accident?
Insurance is required to drive a car. I bet there are far fewer injuries per capita to automobile drivers then there are to riders in MX.
What is your feeling on this? Should mx riders be self insured by relying on donations from individuals in the event of a life altering accident, or required to show some sort of financial responsibility in the form of insurance coverage?
Also, how the heck do you ever determine which helmet to buy as there is no data to support which helmet will do the best job in an mx related get off. Do you simply buy the most expensive helmet, the one that looks the best, how the heck do you make that decision with zero data to go on.
My question in regards to Nerds cry for data, data....almighty data damn it!! is this;
Who does the testing?
The folks at Leatt have been testing their product and have shown results but as Dave pointed out that can be interpreted as marketing rather than independent testing.
Who could do an independent test on this to an extent that the results would be conclusive?
What are the parameters?
Who the heck is going to volunteer to keep falling on their head?
OK that last one was a joke but seriously how do you test it in real world circumstances?
The best testimonial for me, was that I saw my friend Dr. Mark Russell wear one and
he ensures his kids do, too.
David Bailey's plea was also a factor.
I truly hate wearing it, even after a year or so.
I sometimes take it off for dinner though, naturally.
Or canoodling.
R C helmet to sternum deal , I had a similer crash at crytel coast mx in north carolina last july.I endoed and took one hell of a head shot , my head went so far forward it broke the mouth guard off my fox v3 pro pilot lid and cracked the top of my sternum thru my chest protector. I always refused to wear a neck brace.I am 42 and have rode and raced motocross for 32 years . i ve taken many bad licks in this sport and broken some bones but that crash was the scariest. My wife bought me a neck brace so i wouldnt quit and the first 2 times i wore it i hated it. now i dont even know its on . I believe its by the shear grace of god I didnt break my neck that day and i will never ride or race again without one.
R C helmet to sternum deal , I had a similer crash at crytel coast mx in north carolina last july.I endoed and took one hell of a head shot , my head went so far forward it broke the mouth guard off my fox v3 pro pilot lid and cracked the top of my sternum thru my chest protector. I always refused to wear a neck brace.I am 42 and have rode and raced motocross for 32 years . i ve taken many bad licks in this sport and broken some bones but that crash was the scariest. My wife bought me a neck brace so i wouldnt quit and the first 2 times i wore it i hated it. now i dont even know its on . I believe its by the shear grace of god I didnt break my neck that day and i will never ride or race again without one.
It makes the muscles in your knee lazy or less strong because the knee brace compensates
Nerd, exactly what data is it that you use when selecting the best possible helmet ?
With so many helmets to choose from, I figured you'd be able to clue me in on what data is out there that indicates which helmet is best for mx.
I think teeth braces are just for looks.
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Also, i would recommend doing a further search on this topic over at thumpertalk for anyone who would like to read some informative discussion, Dr Mark has made several posts over there on this and the discussion has been quite vast.
there is the Han's, teh Hutchins, the Leatt Moto R, and a Hybrid, there is a SFi Test for them and some organisations make you use them,
i race a Dirt Car, i run a leatt Moto R as it best suits the type of driving i do, along with the seat and cockpit layout i run, there was resonable discussion between the brands, and i choose the one that best met my setup,
i believe that the Leatt was sold alot on emotion, rather than a set of critera, i do not knock anyone for wearing them, i sell the and are a stockest of the Leatt, A Star and EVS Braces,
i am just with Nerd on this, i have yet to see the testing to make me feel like wearing one will reduce my chances of injury.
Maybe the Nigerians could work a deal with the Leatt company to market them in their e-mail scams.
Could work out good for both of them? At least that's what all the available research says....
Correct, the stretchy ones should not be used for the reason you gave
I was talking about one of these, the type that will not make your knee lazy or less strong and that actually have very limited effectiveness in preventing internal knee injuries.
I wonder if Nerd wears something like this for his knees??
As for helmets, I look into the construction, and the reasoning for doing what they do, and I wear the one that I believe in. Right now, that's typically the new Shoei because I really liked the fact that it has different densities of foam for different sizes, because someone like me who wears an XL is very likely to weigh more than Jake Weimer, who wears and XS. Higher weight means more energy as you hit the ground, and that means you need denser foam to distribute such a large amount of energy.
The science is sound, and that's what I typically wear. Prior to the new Shoei, I typically wore the Arai for similar reasons.
It's not about price, although it's probably no coincidence that those two helmets cost more than the others.
I put a situation out there, with some personal opinion. You on the other hand, compared my comments to a Nigerian e-mail scam.......
I am all about choice and I don't knock anybody for their decision.
I have made mine and you have made yours.
I would love to see some realistic testing and be able to understand what the Leatt does and does not do.
In the meantime though I have to go with my feeling that it is a good idea to wear one.
Nothing is foolproof, hell my son wears full safety gear all the time and last year he went out and hit a kids bike that crashed in front of him going over a jump and ended up with a compression fracture to his L-1.
No matter what there is always a chance of injury when you do something dangerous.
I guess one way to look at the Leatt, scientifically, is - if you had kids riding -
would you want them to wear it ?
*And I meant Scientific in a real-deep philosophical sense of which i can't explain, yet
the vibe has been dispatched, nonetheless.
I'll quote myself:
And no, I'm not comparing the braces to Nigerian email scams, just the fact that people seem to be okay with not having proof of things.
I swear, the more I talk about this with you guys, and the more you refuse to acknowledge a need for actual evidence, the more I start to think you guys are like 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists.
I just saw a show about that the other day on the National Geographic Channel, and at the end they broke down the psychology of the conspiracy folks, and what it boils down to is a need to believe that there is order and reason to the world. They believe that 9/11 was an inside job despite all the evidence to the contrary because it's more comforting for them to believe there was a master plan. They don't like that it was that easy for a bunch of nuts to take over airliners and fly them into buildings.
Similarly, even though I have not said a single time in here that the braces are bad or that people shouldn't wear them (only stating that I need more data before I commit, and that others should want the data, too), you guys are going out of your way to misrepresent arguments, appeal to emotion, give personal experiences ("I saw a kid lawn-dart and there's no way he would've been okay without the Leatt Brace."), etc. So I think maybe part of this is that people want to believe that they're safer from their biggest fear - paralysis - so they can ride without as much fear in the back of their heads. And that's fine. But not all of us have to worry about that fear. And honestly, I think that fear creates more crashes than anything.
None of that means anything.
And perhaps the biggest irony of all of this is that I've been around and I've seen a lot of very, very bad crashes, and have been in a few myself, and the ones in my experience that ended in paralysis were normally not very bad crashes at all. When Mike Young got paralyzed out at Glen Helen, his crash didn't look ridiculously bad. It was bad, but the lap before that, Larry Brooks went down WAY harder and got up and rode back to the pits. I was there.
I heard the same thing about Ernesto's crash, that it looked routine.
So the reality seems to be it's not a matter of the severity of the crash, but rather how you crash that really matters, so all of these appeals about seeing someone land on their head and how the brace saved them from being paralyzed, they don't even necessarily apply to the real world.
I mean, in some situations, they might. The brace might have prevented a lot of those people from being paralyzed.
But how do we know?
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