Isle of Man TT

Bruce372
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6/12/2022 7:19pm
Is there any money in the TT? I’m totally ignorant about that. Pros vs amateur pay scales? Watched it for years when I lived in Europe...
Is there any money in the TT? I’m totally ignorant about that. Pros vs amateur pay scales? Watched it for years when I lived in Europe but never attended. Can’t imagine sidecars guys make money. That’s a super niche motosport kinda like trials and Supermoto in my mind.

Now back to this KTM 125sx top end. Needs done tomorrow.
scott_nz wrote:
for the riders, the top guys make a bit through bonuses, , but most guys out of the top 10 will be paying there own way...
for the riders, the top guys make a bit through bonuses, , but most guys out of the top 10 will be paying there own way, id say most the sidecar teams would be like that too,

here is the prize money scale, 18K pounds is not that much,
https://sportscriber.com/money/isle-of-man-tt-prize-money/


by money being made, i meant by the riders and spectators spending money on accommodation meals etc, not so much the competitors making money
It's probably the same as motocross, top 10 getting paid, next 10 riding for free, next ten paying to ride. Of course my estimates have error bars, but its not like anyone is complaining for a wage cap in mx either.
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Hammer 663s
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6/12/2022 8:07pm
I’m sure it’s the #1 income generator for the Isle of Man. locals must be torn over the carnage but I get the need for the income. What else makes $$$ there?

The riders are doing it mostly for the thrill and the recognition within their community. Like most of us the vast majority spend to pursue it and won’t make a dime.

The difference between this and Everest is tha climbers die alone and unobserved. TT riders die in view of the public and on film. That’s going to get a lot of negative attention from those who don’t get it. Eventually they will shut it down. I mean, I ride and have for 40+ years and I don’t get it. That level of risk is beyond me.
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Alan Dove
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6/13/2022 12:32am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 12:35am
js451 wrote:
Omg the hate on here! 😆 No where did I say I wanted it to banned, i said I was curious to hear everyone’s thoughts! Now...
Omg the hate on here! 😆 No where did I say I wanted it to banned, i said I was curious to hear everyone’s thoughts!
Now I’m a wet wipe calling for the ban of the race 😆

Learn how to read before you spew out your emotions 😆

Youse are the keyboard warriors not me 😆
You called it barbaric, unnecessary and too dangerous. That's highly emotive language and also mimics the exact language those who wan it to be prohibited use. Unnecessary means not needed. Too dangerous infers that you believe there is an 'acceptable' danger level that shouldn't be surpassed. You don'y get to call anyone a keyboard warrior when you use that kind of language.

in addition the whole argument is flawed. To accuse the TT of being barbaric is to say it's savagely cruel. I find it somewhat odd that people from a sport where barely cognizant children are often victims of seriously life changing injuries (and worse) are accusing a sport where fully consenting adults compete is barbaric.

Absolutely zero self-awareness. To a lot of people dirtbikes are "barbaric, unnecessary and too dangerous"
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1

The Shop

Alan Dove
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6/13/2022 12:34am
I’m sure it’s the #1 income generator for the Isle of Man. locals must be torn over the carnage but I get the need for the...
I’m sure it’s the #1 income generator for the Isle of Man. locals must be torn over the carnage but I get the need for the income. What else makes $$$ there?

The riders are doing it mostly for the thrill and the recognition within their community. Like most of us the vast majority spend to pursue it and won’t make a dime.

The difference between this and Everest is tha climbers die alone and unobserved. TT riders die in view of the public and on film. That’s going to get a lot of negative attention from those who don’t get it. Eventually they will shut it down. I mean, I ride and have for 40+ years and I don’t get it. That level of risk is beyond me.
Why do you ride a dirtbike considering the massive risks to life and limb? A lot of big crashes are broadcast live and/or uploaded to youtube.

If you can answer that you can understand TT riders. The only difference between you and them is they are a 10 on the risk scale, and you're a 9
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1
6/13/2022 12:58am
I’m pretty sure people die jumping out of aeroplanes as well, why don’t we ban that too.
And Alcohol- let’s ban that too.. and burgers, fries, bacon- the list is endless.
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2
js451
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AU
6/13/2022 1:07am
Alan Dove wrote:
You called it barbaric, unnecessary and too dangerous. That's highly [i]emotive language [/i]and also mimics the exact language those who wan it to be prohibited use...
You called it barbaric, unnecessary and too dangerous. That's highly emotive language and also mimics the exact language those who wan it to be prohibited use. Unnecessary means not needed. Too dangerous infers that you believe there is an 'acceptable' danger level that shouldn't be surpassed. You don'y get to call anyone a keyboard warrior when you use that kind of language.

in addition the whole argument is flawed. To accuse the TT of being barbaric is to say it's savagely cruel. I find it somewhat odd that people from a sport where barely cognizant children are often victims of seriously life changing injuries (and worse) are accusing a sport where fully consenting adults compete is barbaric.

Absolutely zero self-awareness. To a lot of people dirtbikes are "barbaric, unnecessary and too dangerous"
It was a Sunday night I’m having a beer and wanted to hear some thoughts on a topic. Now I’ve got to go through my answers with a thesaurus like I’m in a court battle 😂
Thanks for your responses I guess 🤷‍♂️😂 Have a good week 👍
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6/13/2022 1:12am
It’s ‘Risk Vs Reward’ and we all see it differently.

If you get ‘enough’ from it (whatever it is) to offset the risk, then you’ll do it.

Climbing Everest is dangerous- for me, I have zero interest in it, so I won’t take that risk.

Cycling on the road is dangerous- for me I get a big kick out of being fit & the endorphins I feel so I do it every day.

Risk Vs. reward.
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1
6/13/2022 1:13am
Moto is dangerous- I’ve done it for 33 years. I just suffered a knee injury. I think I’m over it now. The reward no longer offsets the risk for me.

In ‘99 I broke my femur- I was riding less than a year later- at that time, the reward outweighed the risk.
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1
6/13/2022 1:39am
If this was a points paying race ie; GP, WSB, BSB, etc, I can understand getting the race pulled from the calendar. I’m pretty sure that’s what happened in the 70’s, lead by Barry Sheene. The riders said this is crazy, if we wanna win the title we can’t afford to miss a race so we have to risk our lives. Now it’s a case of if you wanna be the fastest man around the TT, no prize money, grab a bike & see what you can do.
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Mucktub
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6/13/2022 1:48am
There is prize money at the TT, but as with most 2 wheeled sport not really enough.
6/13/2022 2:06am
I feel I have a different perspective of this event as I have just returned after spending 10 days in the Isle Of Man watching this amazing event

Of course its dangerous,but so is MX and SX,Quad racing,truck racing,NASCAR etc etc. But this is part of its attraction surely?

The whole event has a relaxed,almost festival vibe.
I walked the pits numerous times chatting to riders who were all happy,relaxed and having fun between races.
Families walked round rubbing shoulders with the current stars and stars of the past.
I met Richard Rawlings in the pits
It really is an amazing place to be

I was lucky enough to get onto the start line for a couple of races,watching the riders chatting to team ,mates,rivals,friends and family,even getting interviewed and being so relaxed,then to watch them set off heading down Bray Hill at 180mph (check it on youtube)
Something that was amazing to witness

I was also there when it was red flagged and riders didnt come home sadly.
The family of one rider said they wanted everyone to keep racing and doing what they love

But each and every rider on that start line was there through their own choice and wanted to be doing it,even knowing the risks
Some work all year to be able to afford it,building their own bikes,some are on Factory bikes

The riders love it
The fans love it

I will 100% be back next year,its the best non MX event Ive been to,been 4 times now
Long may it continue
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1
6/13/2022 3:25am
Mucktub wrote:
There is prize money at the TT, but as with most 2 wheeled sport not really enough.
Yeah I just found out about the prize money. A guy I work with actually use to live on the Isle of Man.
OT
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6/13/2022 3:25am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 3:32am
It's almost becoming manslaughter... The race has been running for like over 100 years and I think there's only been 1 or 2 years no one has been killed. The organisers know full well someone is going to die every year yet they still run it...? It's a cool race but I think it's run it's course...

I will await the downvotes.
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11
Alan Dove
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6/13/2022 3:44am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 3:51am
OT wrote:
It's almost becoming manslaughter... The race has been running for like over 100 years and I think there's only been 1 or 2 years no one...
It's almost becoming manslaughter... The race has been running for like over 100 years and I think there's only been 1 or 2 years no one has been killed. The organisers know full well someone is going to die every year yet they still run it...? It's a cool race but I think it's run it's course...

I will await the downvotes.
It's almost certain children (who can't fully consent to the risks they are taking) will die and suffer life altering injuries racing dirt bikes... yet... it still continues. How?

Honestly, the lack of self-awareness from some dirt bikers blows my mind (and you've got a PASTRANA profile pic too....). Using the term manslaughter while blind to the risks involved in your own sport, which could easily be argued are FAR worse when you consider the age ranges of those at risk. In the TT there's zero risk to children riders, MX however...
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2
CPR
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6/13/2022 3:57am
Isle of Man risky?
Multi time champion Joey Dunlop smoking while sitting on a fuel drum:


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1
6/13/2022 7:05am
From Top Gear magazine, 2013:
SEVEN-TIME MotoGP world champion Valentino Rossi has expressed the view that the Isle of Man TT is too dangerous.

Rossi made the comments in an in-depth interview with Top Gear magazine, in which he told the interviewer that his biggest fear is being injured. He said: 'I did a lap of the Isle of Man, and I understand why people love this because it’s f**king awesome – it’s unbelievable, great. But, unfortunately, it’s too dangerous. Sometimes, riders are crazy.'

'The Isle of Man is very difficult. If you make a mistake, maybe it’s the last mistake.'


But he didn't say ban it. Loudon/Laconia/NH Motor Speedway (whatever you want to call it) was boycotted by Mladin and other pro riders one year due to lack of safety and it is no longer on the AMA/Moto America schedule, but the IOM is its own thing. I have some friends who go spectate every few years and say there is nothing like it.
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Ducon39
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6/13/2022 10:55am
Road 'the movie' is a must see. You may not understand why they do this and risk their life doing it, but this is their life. In 2008, Robert Dunlop died at the North West 200 ... 2 days later, his sons William and Michael were racing (I believe Michael won). In 2018, William died during practice for the 2018 Skerries 100 Road Races in County Dublin ... this year, his brother Michael won Isle of Man TT for a record 21st time.
Again, crazy for outsiders but this is their life, their choice (and who else better than Michael Dunlop understands the risks), don't tell them what they should do.

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philG
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6/13/2022 11:04am
Nobody forces them to go and race, i would never suggest folk dont go, i have had people i know well race it for the last 20 years, on and off, and i cant even listen to it on the radio, i go check the results after the races are done.

That said, we race on street circuits on the SM stuff, with walls and all sorts, and i dont even think about it, and while its not even close to the same, its iffy enough for those that watch, to think we are nuts.

If i was going to do anything, i would stop sidecars, they are bad enough on short circuits, and there are no small sidecar crashes, my freind from work fell out of the chair in 2015 and was off work for over a year , and his legs are shot to bits... he would go back if he could phsyically do it.


Its the ultimate 'personal choice' .
2
6/13/2022 11:07am
philG wrote:
Nobody forces them to go and race, i would never suggest folk dont go, i have had people i know well race it for the last...
Nobody forces them to go and race, i would never suggest folk dont go, i have had people i know well race it for the last 20 years, on and off, and i cant even listen to it on the radio, i go check the results after the races are done.

That said, we race on street circuits on the SM stuff, with walls and all sorts, and i dont even think about it, and while its not even close to the same, its iffy enough for those that watch, to think we are nuts.

If i was going to do anything, i would stop sidecars, they are bad enough on short circuits, and there are no small sidecar crashes, my freind from work fell out of the chair in 2015 and was off work for over a year , and his legs are shot to bits... he would go back if he could phsyically do it.


Its the ultimate 'personal choice' .
The sidecars will defiantly be looked at after 2 horric crashes in the same price of road , they took them back to 600cc a while ago now

We race street races here too , but none with the speed that the uk has. The Irish road races like the northwest and the ulster gp are just as crazy. Maybe even more so with mass starts
6/13/2022 11:26am
Ducon39 wrote:
Road 'the movie' is a must see. You may not understand why they do this and risk their life doing it, but this is their life...
Road 'the movie' is a must see. You may not understand why they do this and risk their life doing it, but this is their life. In 2008, Robert Dunlop died at the North West 200 ... 2 days later, his sons William and Michael were racing (I believe Michael won). In 2018, William died during practice for the 2018 Skerries 100 Road Races in County Dublin ... this year, his brother Michael won Isle of Man TT for a record 21st time.
Again, crazy for outsiders but this is their life, their choice (and who else better than Michael Dunlop understands the risks), don't tell them what they should do.

That’s is an incredible documentary. Robert Dunlop survived a horrific accident when he’s rear wheel broke up & he suffered horrendous injuries. But he came back to race again. His death is shown in that documentary & how he died is very unfortunate.
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mac3-d
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6/13/2022 11:34am Edited Date/Time 6/13/2022 11:37am
1st in the Senior TT is £18,000
10 th is £1,200
20th is £300
Total prize found for this race is £58,000.

Sidecars, prize money per race
1st £9,000
9 th £1,000
20 th £300

Total for 8 races £273,100.

£18,000 =. $22,000
£9,000 = $11,000
brimx153
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6/13/2022 11:39am
Is there any money in the TT? I’m totally ignorant about that. Pros vs amateur pay scales? Watched it for years when I lived in Europe...
Is there any money in the TT? I’m totally ignorant about that. Pros vs amateur pay scales? Watched it for years when I lived in Europe but never attended. Can’t imagine sidecars guys make money. That’s a super niche motosport kinda like trials and Supermoto in my mind.

Now back to this KTM 125sx top end. Needs done tomorrow.
scott_nz wrote:
for the riders, the top guys make a bit through bonuses, , but most guys out of the top 10 will be paying there own way...
for the riders, the top guys make a bit through bonuses, , but most guys out of the top 10 will be paying there own way, id say most the sidecar teams would be like that too,

here is the prize money scale, 18K pounds is not that much,
https://sportscriber.com/money/isle-of-man-tt-prize-money/


by money being made, i meant by the riders and spectators spending money on accommodation meals etc, not so much the competitors making money
Bruce372 wrote:
It's probably the same as motocross, top 10 getting paid, next 10 riding for free, next ten paying to ride. Of course my estimates have error...
It's probably the same as motocross, top 10 getting paid, next 10 riding for free, next ten paying to ride. Of course my estimates have error bars, but its not like anyone is complaining for a wage cap in mx either.
Very top guys are getting payed good for it . But it's really only 5 guys . Like Michael Dunlop get s alot of start money . Other s will spend everything just to do it . My father raced in Ireland , never did the TT tho . I ve been brought up with it my entire life . I ve had friend s die doing it . Who I raced Motocross with before they did roads . End of the day they do it for the thrill , go look at Hickman s go pro of the entire lap on YouTube it's amazing . I can understand why people do it . But I would nt that's for sure . Or would I ever tell people not to do it . Climbing is far more risky imo . 1 out of 3 die climbing K2. Now that's crazy
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mac3-d
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6/13/2022 11:43am
Ok above is if you lead every lap

Leading :-
1st lap is £200
2nd £300
3rd £500
4th £1,000
5th £2,000
6th & final lap the most important £14,000

With many races shortened this would change
ktmdan
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6/13/2022 12:22pm
Alan Dove wrote:
A lot of people watch dirtbikes with exactly the same opinion. This sport isn't without fatalities and serious injury (and that includes children...). So you might...
A lot of people watch dirtbikes with exactly the same opinion. This sport isn't without fatalities and serious injury (and that includes children...). So you might want to tone down the 'barbarism' talk.

Those who call for the TT to be banned rarely are able to put an actual figure on what risk level is acceptable for a motorsport. Basically people think their level of risk acceptance is right and anything above it is wrong... but the thing is PLENTY of people dirt bike racing is off the charts dangerous and givent he choice and knowledge of injury/fatality risk would ban it too.

there's nothing 'necessary' about dirtbike racing either.

If all the motocross deaths and serious injuries were headlines on all the motorsport and news sites you'd soon find yourself in a position of defending the very existence of YOUR sport.
To be fair though, if 250 people had died at a motocross race that happens once a year do you really think the race would still be around? Just playing devils advocate here.
How many people have died in ama sx? I can only think of one. I suppose you could argue that the Baja1000 is the closest parallel.
Alan Dove
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6/13/2022 12:34pm
ktmdan wrote:
To be fair though, if 250 people had died at a motocross race that happens once a year do you really think the race would still...
To be fair though, if 250 people had died at a motocross race that happens once a year do you really think the race would still be around? Just playing devils advocate here.
How many people have died in ama sx? I can only think of one. I suppose you could argue that the Baja1000 is the closest parallel.
It's not really one event, it's about 5 or 6 rolled into one 2 week period.

The reason people go at the TT is because of the availability bias. If we spread those deaths over a year at small road racing events no one would be saying anything.

My particular gripe is seeing dirt bike riders using language like 'barbaric' and the like as if motocross and dirtbike racing isn't dangerous. It isn't dangerous compared to the TT, but compared to almost ALL other forms of motorsport it's off the scale dangerous. and infinitely more dangerous to under-16s because motocross allow them to compete.
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ktmdan
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6/13/2022 1:55pm
ktmdan wrote:
To be fair though, if 250 people had died at a motocross race that happens once a year do you really think the race would still...
To be fair though, if 250 people had died at a motocross race that happens once a year do you really think the race would still be around? Just playing devils advocate here.
How many people have died in ama sx? I can only think of one. I suppose you could argue that the Baja1000 is the closest parallel.
Alan Dove wrote:
It's not really one event, it's about 5 or 6 rolled into one 2 week period. The reason people go at the TT is because of...
It's not really one event, it's about 5 or 6 rolled into one 2 week period.

The reason people go at the TT is because of the availability bias. If we spread those deaths over a year at small road racing events no one would be saying anything.

My particular gripe is seeing dirt bike riders using language like 'barbaric' and the like as if motocross and dirtbike racing isn't dangerous. It isn't dangerous compared to the TT, but compared to almost ALL other forms of motorsport it's off the scale dangerous. and infinitely more dangerous to under-16s because motocross allow them to compete.
I see what you mean. I look at people who ride street bikes (motorcycles or cyclists!) and think they’re bat shit crazy. Meanwhile I’ve had multiple surgeries, numerous life changing concussions and hospital stays riding Mx and I still do it 😂.
I guess I’m over the glorification of it all. Like oh they died doing what they loved, father and son. No that freakin sucks and is silly way to die.
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Alan Dove
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6/13/2022 2:23pm
ktmdan wrote:
I see what you mean. I look at people who ride street bikes (motorcycles or cyclists!) and think they’re bat shit crazy. Meanwhile I’ve had multiple...
I see what you mean. I look at people who ride street bikes (motorcycles or cyclists!) and think they’re bat shit crazy. Meanwhile I’ve had multiple surgeries, numerous life changing concussions and hospital stays riding Mx and I still do it 😂.
I guess I’m over the glorification of it all. Like oh they died doing what they loved, father and son. No that freakin sucks and is silly way to die.
What's a good way to die? What's the 'right' way to die?



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lee82
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6/13/2022 2:41pm
Alan Dove wrote:
What's a good way to die? What's the 'right' way to die?



Wrong question. How do you want to live the life you have now? It’s either that or struggle to find meaning in a pointless existence.
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