Show us a Pro rider’s contract.

Kyle978
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Dirt, NM, USA
5/2/2022 11:11am
Did you miss the part where I wrote block out names, manufacturers & money?
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put out that information, even if everything is blacked out.

I'll say it again - the risk of losing credibility and trust within the industry is not worth it. Post it, have to answer to the industry while a bunch of plumbers and drywall guys on Vital pick it apart? Doesn't sound like good decision making to me.
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GrapeApe
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5/2/2022 11:12am
The financial figures are the only thing of interest in these contracts. Otherwise they are fairly basic independent contractor agreements.
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5/2/2022 11:15am Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 12:06pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Why does their boss allow this? Kenny, they had no choice, he caught Covid and had a serious bout with it and went back to Germany...
Why does their boss allow this? Kenny, they had no choice, he caught Covid and had a serious bout with it and went back to Germany to get his body right. Honestly, I think he went there to get treatment he can’t get here.

Webb, I can’t begin to tell you why he is taking time off, or why they are letting him. My guess is both sides are frustrated and he wants to go clear his head.


Do they get paid? Even a percentage? Depends on the contract, some guys get nothing, some guys get a percentage, most top guys get payed full.

Do they have to pay any back? No, they are paid each month a negotiated amount. If they get hurt, the pay is adjusted.

Do they need a Doctors note? Yes.
I’m pretty sure Kenny went back to Germany to see his Dr about the lingering Epstein Barr, then caught COVID while he was there. I hadn’t heard the COVID caused anything severe, but then again I didn’t ask too many questions.
Not the way he wanted to start off SX. He did his best to overcome to Epstein Barr, but apparently didn’t feel like it was worth it to keep pushing his body. Hopefully he has it under control, or the nationals are going to be rough.
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5/2/2022 11:17am
Kyle978 wrote:
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put...
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put out that information, even if everything is blacked out.

I'll say it again - the risk of losing credibility and trust within the industry is not worth it. Post it, have to answer to the industry while a bunch of plumbers and drywall guys on Vital pick it apart? Doesn't sound like good decision making to me.
You are spot on Kyle, pretty basic stuff here. But there will still be some who won’t understand.
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The Shop

Wade221
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Yuba City, CA, USA
5/2/2022 11:21am
Kyle978 wrote:
Seems like a pretty quick way to get outside the circle of trust in a very small industry.

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5/2/2022 11:24am
I think it would be interesting to see the contracts items. Not looking for the pay they receive but how they earn.

Are they designated independent contractors?
Salary - do they get it per race or is it over the entire year (monthly or every other week)
Bonus money - only first - third or different for mid tear - like top 10,,,,,
Do they receive paid health insurance or is the rider responsible for this?
If they are hurt and cannot race - are they still paid by the team or insurance?

What differences are there between top tier riders contracts vs mid tier (so a Webb vs Brayton vs Amart vs ARay.

Again - not their pay - just what is listed in the contract.


I think it would be very interesting and maybe even surprising as what is in some contracts.

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Coach529
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5/2/2022 11:27am
I do not really care about the dollar amount, but the clauses in the contract.

I think I heard contracts have injury Clauses, but are almost never implemented.
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Pooski
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Chattanooga, TN, USA
5/2/2022 11:32am
Kyle978 wrote:
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put...
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put out that information, even if everything is blacked out.

I'll say it again - the risk of losing credibility and trust within the industry is not worth it. Post it, have to answer to the industry while a bunch of plumbers and drywall guys on Vital pick it apart? Doesn't sound like good decision making to me.
We get it dude. You are a part of the luxurious industry of SX/MX. No one is going to come after your bros. We will all tuck our tails and run for the hills because you have made it clear us peasants on Vital know nothing and it should be kept that way. Thank you for your service.
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Kyle978
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Dirt, NM, USA
5/2/2022 11:39am
Vital members be like...

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5/2/2022 11:40am
Spat24 wrote:
I think it would be interesting to see the contracts items. Not looking for the pay they receive but how they earn. Are they designated independent...
I think it would be interesting to see the contracts items. Not looking for the pay they receive but how they earn.

Are they designated independent contractors?
Salary - do they get it per race or is it over the entire year (monthly or every other week)
Bonus money - only first - third or different for mid tear - like top 10,,,,,
Do they receive paid health insurance or is the rider responsible for this?
If they are hurt and cannot race - are they still paid by the team or insurance?

What differences are there between top tier riders contracts vs mid tier (so a Webb vs Brayton vs Amart vs ARay.

Again - not their pay - just what is listed in the contract.


I think it would be very interesting and maybe even surprising as what is in some contracts.

I’ll share what’s been said to me from a Team Manager on a couple of things.

Win bonuses-
Most bonus structures are either top 5 or top 10 to get a bonus for a race win. Most factory guys will opt for the top 5 structure, since they expect to be in the top 5. Top 10 structures pay less per position. Meaning if you are on a top 5 bonus structure and get 6th, no bonus…
On a top 10 structure, you get paid less for a top 5, than the other guy on a top 5 structure.
I’m not sure about the top 3 structure, but I think RC was on this, possibly others too ?
But the bonuses are bigger obviously.

(Kind of like other sports where athletes took shares of the company, versus being paid) Rob Dyrdek and Kelly Skater come to mind, although I’m sure there are many others too)

As far as medical insurance, I am under the impression that any rider under Factory contract is provided health insurance, but I could be wrong.
I do know that ALL riders while at an AMA race are covered under AMA (or Feld?) while competing.

Also- I’m told that all riders under Factory contracts have to purchase a Lloyds of London (or equivalent) policy to cover them, if they become injured and unable to continue to race. This covers the team for their investment of tge riders salary and also obvious helps the rider if he’s injured and unable to race.
Emig, Pieck come to mind. The stipulation is they can never race professionally again / be paid to race.
I’m not sure about satellite teams, but I’d imagine they cover their asses as much as possible, but depending on how much is being invested
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ACBraap
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Fantasy
5/2/2022 11:49am Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 11:53am
What is the down-side?
Kyle978 wrote:
Seems like a pretty quick way to get outside the circle of trust in a very small industry.
Did you miss the part where I wrote block out names, manufacturers & money?
Each team would still be able to recognize the contract by the other details. It would be interesting, but would not be anonymous. To keep it anonymous someone would need to read and summarize key terms of the contract in general terms.
5/2/2022 11:54am
Did you miss the part where I wrote block out names, manufacturers & money?
Kyle978 wrote:
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put...
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put out that information, even if everything is blacked out.

I'll say it again - the risk of losing credibility and trust within the industry is not worth it. Post it, have to answer to the industry while a bunch of plumbers and drywall guys on Vital pick it apart? Doesn't sound like good decision making to me.
What I don’t understand is why it would matter?

No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter?
You speak about it as though it’s a threat to national security.. its fucking motorcycle racing!
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5/2/2022 11:59am
What I don’t understand is why it would matter? No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter? You...
What I don’t understand is why it would matter?

No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter?
You speak about it as though it’s a threat to national security.. its fucking motorcycle racing!
Take a deep breath and have a snickers, you've gotten yourself worked up over nothing.

It’s a tight knit industry, you obviously don’t understand this.
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Crossup
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5/2/2022 12:03pm
I just want to see Karnow's deal and what the fringes are. Photo shoots, Pool parties, a whole NEW level of merch... That kid is gonna be driving an R8 or a McLaren 720 by next year.
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Kyle978
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5/2/2022 12:06pm
What I don’t understand is why it would matter? No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter? You...
What I don’t understand is why it would matter?

No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter?
You speak about it as though it’s a threat to national security.. its fucking motorcycle racing!
Put this on the long list of things in life you can't control.
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5/2/2022 12:07pm
What I don’t understand is why it would matter? No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter? You...
What I don’t understand is why it would matter?

No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter?
You speak about it as though it’s a threat to national security.. its fucking motorcycle racing!
Langhammx wrote:
Take a deep breath and have a snickers, you've gotten yourself worked up over nothing.

It’s a tight knit industry, you obviously don’t understand this.
Pacify me- tell me why a rider or team would get upset about it.

Bare in mind we won’t know WHO the rider is, WHAT BIKE they were riding or HOW MUCH they were getting paid. GO!
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Kyle978
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5/2/2022 12:09pm
Pooski wrote:
We get it dude. You are a part of the luxurious industry of SX/MX. No one is going to come after your bros. We will all...
We get it dude. You are a part of the luxurious industry of SX/MX. No one is going to come after your bros. We will all tuck our tails and run for the hills because you have made it clear us peasants on Vital know nothing and it should be kept that way. Thank you for your service.
You can interpret it that way if you choose, but it kinda makes you sound like a little bitch.

I've shared stuff on here and within minutes was getting texts from people in the industry advising to take it down, all while getting shit on by the members of Vital because they didn't like the answers/information I gave them.

There's no winning, it's kind of frustrating being relatively in the know and cruising this site.
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ElliotB16
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5/2/2022 12:11pm
Anybody want to see my HookIt 50% off contracts?
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LungButter
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5/2/2022 12:16pm
Kyle978 wrote:
You can interpret it that way if you choose, but it kinda makes you sound like a little bitch. I've shared stuff on here and within...
You can interpret it that way if you choose, but it kinda makes you sound like a little bitch.

I've shared stuff on here and within minutes was getting texts from people in the industry advising to take it down, all while getting shit on by the members of Vital because they didn't like the answers/information I gave them.

There's no winning, it's kind of frustrating being relatively in the know and cruising this site.
You're so big time.
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5/2/2022 12:18pm
Pacify me- tell me why a rider or team would get upset about it. Bare in mind we won’t know WHO the rider is, WHAT BIKE...
Pacify me- tell me why a rider or team would get upset about it.

Bare in mind we won’t know WHO the rider is, WHAT BIKE they were riding or HOW MUCH they were getting paid. GO!
Because other than the rider, agent or team manager, that contract isnt available for you or anyone else to see.
So if someone had an actual contract to show, it wouldn’t be too hard to figure out how it got into circulation. Now if an ex-racer wanted to post his old contract up for all to see, then I see no problem with that. My son had a contract with Suzuki for the A class in amateur racing. If I can find it, I’ll post it up for you, but it’s really not what you’re looking for. There no money involved, just his requirements / obligations to fulfill his contract, in order to keep the bikes and sign over the titles. This included what races he had to race, injury clauses, contingency money per race, sponsor obligations for sticker placement of Team Sponsors, rider/ family conduct, podium conduct and any and all interviews/ write-ups, etc
Not sure if that helps you sleep better, but it’s all I got.
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JM485
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5/2/2022 12:24pm
What I don’t understand is why it would matter? No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter? You...
What I don’t understand is why it would matter?

No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter?
You speak about it as though it’s a threat to national security.. its fucking motorcycle racing!
The answer is that it wouldn’t hurt anything, but it’s a lot more fun for the “in” crowd to feel important and that requires keeping information exclusive.
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5/2/2022 12:25pm
LungButter wrote:
You're so big time.
Honestly, he’s not wrong… Cool

You’d be surprised how fast things escalate in this industry. It’s got nothing to do with Kyle being big time, it’s just a very small industry and that’s a reason that you don’t see a lot of people that are currently in the industry post on here (or any other site), although almost every one of them read this stuff. There’s a reason that the term Vitards is used to describe some of the people on this forum.
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5/2/2022 12:28pm
JM485 wrote:
The answer is that it wouldn’t hurt anything, but it’s a lot more fun for the “in” crowd to feel important and that requires keeping information...
The answer is that it wouldn’t hurt anything, but it’s a lot more fun for the “in” crowd to feel important and that requires keeping information exclusive.
To be honest, most of the people that are still involved in the industry, don’t even have access to this information. But I agree that it really doesn’t matter, but it’s always been this way and I really don’t see it changing.
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FGR01
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Fantasy
5/2/2022 12:32pm
Did you miss the part where I wrote block out names, manufacturers & money?
Kyle978 wrote:
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put...
Clearly you don't understand how small the MX/SX industry is. It wouldn't take long for the parties involved in the contract to figure out who put out that information, even if everything is blacked out.

I'll say it again - the risk of losing credibility and trust within the industry is not worth it. Post it, have to answer to the industry while a bunch of plumbers and drywall guys on Vital pick it apart? Doesn't sound like good decision making to me.
What I don’t understand is why it would matter? No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter? You...
What I don’t understand is why it would matter?

No financial information, no names, why would anyone be upset about it? What does it matter?
You speak about it as though it’s a threat to national security.. its fucking motorcycle racing!
Let me put this in practical terms.

Any person that has access to the information you seek, and is also dumb enough to post it, is not smart enough to understand the word redact, much less how to carry out a redaction and actually create a post with attachments on Vital.
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Pooski
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Chattanooga, TN, USA
5/2/2022 12:44pm
Kyle978 wrote:
You can interpret it that way if you choose, but it kinda makes you sound like a little bitch. I've shared stuff on here and within...
You can interpret it that way if you choose, but it kinda makes you sound like a little bitch.

I've shared stuff on here and within minutes was getting texts from people in the industry advising to take it down, all while getting shit on by the members of Vital because they didn't like the answers/information I gave them.

There's no winning, it's kind of frustrating being relatively in the know and cruising this site.
That is exactly what you sound like if you let another man tell you what you can and can’t post on an open forum especially if you aren’t employed by them and then do exactly as they say. You definitely watch the base in your voice when talking to these individuals who “advise” you of these things. You know if you ever challenged them on what they tell you what to do that would be the end of your days of receiving credentials that you can attach to a cool looking lanyard and wear them around your neck unlike these “members of Vital.” Watch what you say to people on here Kyle. I’m serious you’ll lose that lanyard around your neck quicker than you can blink. Also if browsing this site frustrates you, I would “advise” you to quit looking. Not that I would expect you to follow that advice because we all know I have no lanyard or T-Shirt to give you.
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Kyle978
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5/2/2022 12:50pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 1:09pm
LungButter wrote:
You're so big time.
This mindset is why no one in the industry posts on here.

You don't get the info/answer you like so you attack. And the people who have the information get frustrated and leave. And everyone is left bitter.
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Kyle978
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5/2/2022 1:07pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2022 1:13pm
Pooski wrote:
That is exactly what you sound like if you let another man tell you what you can and can’t post on an open forum especially if...
That is exactly what you sound like if you let another man tell you what you can and can’t post on an open forum especially if you aren’t employed by them and then do exactly as they say. You definitely watch the base in your voice when talking to these individuals who “advise” you of these things. You know if you ever challenged them on what they tell you what to do that would be the end of your days of receiving credentials that you can attach to a cool looking lanyard and wear them around your neck unlike these “members of Vital.” Watch what you say to people on here Kyle. I’m serious you’ll lose that lanyard around your neck quicker than you can blink. Also if browsing this site frustrates you, I would “advise” you to quit looking. Not that I would expect you to follow that advice because we all know I have no lanyard or T-Shirt to give you.
I typed out a big long response to this explaining my situation more and right before hitting submit I decided to summarize:

Suck it.
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LungButter
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5/2/2022 1:15pm
Kyle978 wrote:
This mindset is why no one in the industry posts on here. You don't get the info/answer you like so you attack. And the people who...
This mindset is why no one in the industry posts on here.

You don't get the info/answer you like so you attack. And the people who have the information get frustrated and leave. And everyone is left bitter.
What mind set? How was that an attack?

Please do explain, hopefully I'm smart enough to understand since I'm just a peasant fan and not an illustrious "insider" to this great industry....
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Kyle978
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5/2/2022 1:25pm
LungButter wrote:
What mind set? How was that an attack? Please do explain, hopefully I'm smart enough to understand since I'm just a peasant fan and not an...
What mind set? How was that an attack?

Please do explain, hopefully I'm smart enough to understand since I'm just a peasant fan and not an illustrious "insider" to this great industry....
I came on here and said "It doesn't make sense for someone to post that. It's a small industry and the players hold this information very tightly. It would be quickly detected who posted that info and the backlash/distrust wouldn't be worth the gain you got from providing the info."

My reply wasn't "I have this info, you don't. HAHA!"

I don't set the rules, I didn't justify whether that was right or wrong, just stating the facts and that someone with that info isn't going to risk their career. This is not mainstream sports - the consequences of spreading gossip and information is very high.

Go back and read how this thread developed. If y'all weren't so insecure and could ask for more info without taking it the wrong way, I bet you'd get farther or at least better understand why you don't have specific information.

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