The new kid in town

Brett_Clark
Posts
270
Joined
1/22/2018
Location
Jackson, MI, USA
Edited Date/Time 3/17/2022 4:14am
After listening to the interview pulp did with the world supercross guys. I actually gained more doubts about it becoming something listening to the goals they have in mind and the approach that was taken to gain access to the teams at A2. What does vital think? This thing going to rival feld or is it going to shit the bed?
Poll

Will the the world supercross be successful

Choices
6
|
RaceFace58
Posts
813
Joined
2/6/2022
Location
Meriden, CT, USA
3/9/2022 6:10pm
I haven’t listened to it yet but I think a lot is riding on the investment firm’s money. If it doesn’t bring in good profits in 2023 then it will be shitting the bed fairly soon and I wouldn’t be surprised if they pull the plug on the remainder of the $50mil. The promoters had to have provided a certain guaranteed return to secure that funding. I’m sure the contract states that if a certain minimum isn’t met, the contract is voided. I’m really interested to hear from what your post says.
1
2
Brett_Clark
Posts
270
Joined
1/22/2018
Location
Jackson, MI, USA
3/9/2022 6:15pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
I haven’t listened to it yet but I think a lot is riding on the investment firm’s money. If it doesn’t bring in good profits in...
I haven’t listened to it yet but I think a lot is riding on the investment firm’s money. If it doesn’t bring in good profits in 2023 then it will be shitting the bed fairly soon and I wouldn’t be surprised if they pull the plug on the remainder of the $50mil. The promoters had to have provided a certain guaranteed return to secure that funding. I’m sure the contract states that if a certain minimum isn’t met, the contract is voided. I’m really interested to hear from what your post says.
It is definitely a ballsy move. Especially competing against the nationals and mx gp.
RaceFace58
Posts
813
Joined
2/6/2022
Location
Meriden, CT, USA
3/9/2022 6:47pm
I’m at the midway point of the podcast now. They’re going to try and reinvent the wheel. Picturing teams with different brands of bikes? Substitute riders? Imagine the added cost of having parts, engines suspension etc for different brands on a team as well as different displacements. Back to the podcast….
3
Titan1
Posts
9465
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
3/9/2022 6:51pm Edited Date/Time 3/9/2022 6:58pm
If they will pay the best riders in the world enough money to race the series, then it will work. If they don’t have the best riders in the world racing it (meaning they are going to have to poach the top American riders) it will fail. Nobody is going to pay supercross ticket prices to watch B list racers struggle around a supercross track…
9
4

The Shop

3/9/2022 6:54pm
Titan1 wrote:
If they will pay the best riders in the world enough money to race the series, then it will work. If they don’t have the best...
If they will pay the best riders in the world enough money to race the series, then it will work. If they don’t have the best riders in the world racing it (meaning they are going to have to poach the top American riders) it will fail. Nobody is going to pay supercross ticket prices to watch B list racers struggle around a supercross track…
Even then I just don’t know how it would be sustainable long term.
2
RaceFace58
Posts
813
Joined
2/6/2022
Location
Meriden, CT, USA
3/9/2022 7:28pm
Titan1 wrote:
If they will pay the best riders in the world enough money to race the series, then it will work. If they don’t have the best...
If they will pay the best riders in the world enough money to race the series, then it will work. If they don’t have the best riders in the world racing it (meaning they are going to have to poach the top American riders) it will fail. Nobody is going to pay supercross ticket prices to watch B list racers struggle around a supercross track…
That’s as simple as it is. I think they think the best riders will be fighting each other to be in this series. Not unless they get paid tons of money guaranteed up front. They think they are creating the SX equivalent of F1 or MotoGP but that equivalent already exists, that’s what the US SX series is. It’s the pinnacle for SX in the world. They said they’re thinking long term in terms of profits. They need to be a big splash success pretty quickly. This will be fun to see what happens but I’m thinking they’re just figuring they can make a lot of money for themselves even if it’s not a success. If it is great. It isn’t their money at risk. They’ll be taking their chunk out of that investment money for sure. They came off as kinda slimy to me.
4
2
CPR
Posts
7128
Joined
10/4/2018
Location
AU
3/9/2022 8:25pm
I wouldn’t underestimate them.
2
DonM
Posts
8968
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Fantasy
3/9/2022 8:48pm
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now…
What are the venues?
Who are the teams?
Who are the riders?
How is the purse paid out?
What’s the broadcast going to be like? And how can we watch it?

Until we have specific answers to those questions it’s just noise…end of the day everybody has to make money if anyone along the line doesn’t it will fail…
7
3
Juck
Posts
2106
Joined
5/23/2019
Location
AU
Fantasy
3/9/2022 8:53pm
CPR wrote:
I wouldn’t underestimate them.
I mean they did great with the Aus X Open and then the SX Open, but geez it's going to be a monumental task to pull this series off
1
1
felpro
Posts
649
Joined
8/3/2009
Location
Rouse Hill, AU
3/10/2022 3:13am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2022 3:36am
Don !!

"Smoke and mirrors" tends to be a term used to suggest deception. Misdirection. You must not have got the memo.

The team behind this global push has runs on the board. Seriously successful sports entrepreneurship. Foundation based dedication to the sport with no limits to their imagination and showmanship. We are lucky to have these guys interested in this sport.

The expansion and movement of SX towards a being global sport is warranted and can only benefit the sport at every level. The roadblock will be the Americans. There's a view widely held in America that they are the world. The centre of the universe and the totality of the universe. There are world titles granted in the US when no international border was crossed by any participant. However, the US remains the market that everyone wants to move into. International events are time to be consumed by the US market. There's a lot of dollars to be made by anyone who scores even a small goal in that market.

The guys proposing the global SX comp are focussed on all participants in the sport being rewarded for their participation. The teams structure they propose brings the teams to the forefront and makes them of the pulse of the sport.

There are riders who will gravitate towards the global competition at the expense of their participation in the US nationals. I'm sure the situation will arise where they can make more money and live a better life riding 6 or 8 months of the year globally rather than the almost year-round effort required for riding in both the SX and MX events. The global SX will possibly have triple crown events that may well attract older rider where the shorter races require less fitness. I might be wrong there, but there would be riders who would extend their career to race 3 x 12 minute races.

The SX Global series will need only one or two major signings in terms of riders to move into success. One Eli, one Malcolm, one Cooper, one Jorge, one Romain. Well, maybe not Romain . . . One Marvin or Kenny.

SX Global will make phone calls with offers too good to refuse. Participation in a season or two will set a rider up for life. The trick will be to get teams to sign on. US based and US focussed teas will be a tough sell.

If it can be done, if anyone can do it, these guys will have a really good go at it.
3
18
RaceFace58
Posts
813
Joined
2/6/2022
Location
Meriden, CT, USA
3/10/2022 3:49am
DonM wrote:
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now… What are the venues...
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now…
What are the venues?
Who are the teams?
Who are the riders?
How is the purse paid out?
What’s the broadcast going to be like? And how can we watch it?

Until we have specific answers to those questions it’s just noise…end of the day everybody has to make money if anyone along the line doesn’t it will fail…
My sentiments exactly. In the interview they stated that the Paris SX could be considered as a round. That’s basically an arenacross. One thing I envisioned was them using the giant soccer stadiums, meaning huge tracks. That was one plus I saw. Paris and Geneva are great for one time events. For a World Championship caliber event? No.
1
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
3/10/2022 3:56am
DonM wrote:
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now… What are the venues...
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now…
What are the venues?
Who are the teams?
Who are the riders?
How is the purse paid out?
What’s the broadcast going to be like? And how can we watch it?

Until we have specific answers to those questions it’s just noise…end of the day everybody has to make money if anyone along the line doesn’t it will fail…
This is where I am.

I am also old enough to remember the first Supercross wars and I have all the details on paper.

These companies can do some sneaky shit like lock up venues for years and shit. When Clear Channel (CC) owned supercross, that is what they did. When AMA wanted to split off with Jam Sports, CC went out and booked every major stadium with the exclusive rights to dirt based events, SX and Monster Jam (MJ).

This was leaving the AMA/Jam guys with no where to race but college stadiums (tiny) or Walmart parking lots

It was crazy

Point being, this is far from over and the questions DonM asked were many of the problems AMA/Jam had in moving forward.

BTW, this all the how and why the FIM got involved in AMA Supercross
3
6
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
3/10/2022 3:58am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2022 3:59am
DonM wrote:
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now… What are the venues...
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now…
What are the venues?
Who are the teams?
Who are the riders?
How is the purse paid out?
What’s the broadcast going to be like? And how can we watch it?

Until we have specific answers to those questions it’s just noise…end of the day everybody has to make money if anyone along the line doesn’t it will fail…
RaceFace58 wrote:
My sentiments exactly. In the interview they stated that the Paris SX could be considered as a round. That’s basically an arenacross. One thing I envisioned...
My sentiments exactly. In the interview they stated that the Paris SX could be considered as a round. That’s basically an arenacross. One thing I envisioned was them using the giant soccer stadiums, meaning huge tracks. That was one plus I saw. Paris and Geneva are great for one time events. For a World Championship caliber event? No.
I have gone to many SX races over there, "Football stadiums" are hallowed grounds. No chances of a race on that grass. If it's not perfect, someone will stub a toe and well, you know....LOL

Never happen.

Driven by so many beautiful stadiums and asked "why not race in there" and met with only laughter.
1
4
Joey_Bridges
Posts
1550
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Kingston, TN, USA
3/10/2022 5:40am
Franchising will inevitably be the death of privateers.
It's happened in every single form of racing.

And a team.on different brands of bikes ??
Yeah, right.
Just think of the mechanical logistics of that.

The US TV deal is questionable as well.
Even now we have cbssn giving us only second moto coverage of MXGP.

But the biggest thing I'm taking away from this is,
They want to develop something by ultimately robbing an existing series of what they've developed over the years.
Many years.
But, Feld's profiteering from the riders, and giving back little in return, leaves the door open for this to at least get off the ground.
Until the behind the scenes money issues bring this WSX idea to a screeching halt.

4
2
soggy
Posts
8964
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
USA
3/10/2022 5:48am
I think this series is going to be the biggest SX series we have in 10 years. There ideas behind building each team as a brand is really interesting and should bring more money into the fold. I would not at all be surprised to see a guy like Jett race on US SX and this in a few years. Once they get one of the top guys the dominoes will fall.
2
1
3/10/2022 5:49am
CPR wrote:
I wouldn’t underestimate them.
Tony Cochrane on board is a brillliant move.
1
2
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
3/10/2022 5:49am Edited Date/Time 3/10/2022 5:51am
Thinking a little further, I see marketing this as a real uphill battle.

To us moto guys it's a no brainer, so forget your feelings.

But they have to find WORLDWIDE sponsors, like Monster, who can benefit from associating their name to it, and that list is pretty small and gets smaller when you bring it into racing, then break it down to motorcycles then to dirt bikers.

Man, that demographic got really small.

Other than the OEM's, what worldwide motorcycle company has the cash and sway to do both AMA and WSX?

This isn't F1 and it's taken F1 decades on TV to get where it is.

You have to convince global CEO/CFO/Marketing people that their ROI worldwide will be well worth it.

That's a hard sell.

Oh, and remember, billboard space on a bike and rider is tiny or totally obscured during a race....
1
4
mx617
Posts
1629
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Kamloops, BC, CA
3/10/2022 6:01am
felpro wrote:
Don !! "Smoke and mirrors" tends to be a term used to suggest deception. Misdirection. You must not have got the memo. The team behind this...
Don !!

"Smoke and mirrors" tends to be a term used to suggest deception. Misdirection. You must not have got the memo.

The team behind this global push has runs on the board. Seriously successful sports entrepreneurship. Foundation based dedication to the sport with no limits to their imagination and showmanship. We are lucky to have these guys interested in this sport.

The expansion and movement of SX towards a being global sport is warranted and can only benefit the sport at every level. The roadblock will be the Americans. There's a view widely held in America that they are the world. The centre of the universe and the totality of the universe. There are world titles granted in the US when no international border was crossed by any participant. However, the US remains the market that everyone wants to move into. International events are time to be consumed by the US market. There's a lot of dollars to be made by anyone who scores even a small goal in that market.

The guys proposing the global SX comp are focussed on all participants in the sport being rewarded for their participation. The teams structure they propose brings the teams to the forefront and makes them of the pulse of the sport.

There are riders who will gravitate towards the global competition at the expense of their participation in the US nationals. I'm sure the situation will arise where they can make more money and live a better life riding 6 or 8 months of the year globally rather than the almost year-round effort required for riding in both the SX and MX events. The global SX will possibly have triple crown events that may well attract older rider where the shorter races require less fitness. I might be wrong there, but there would be riders who would extend their career to race 3 x 12 minute races.

The SX Global series will need only one or two major signings in terms of riders to move into success. One Eli, one Malcolm, one Cooper, one Jorge, one Romain. Well, maybe not Romain . . . One Marvin or Kenny.

SX Global will make phone calls with offers too good to refuse. Participation in a season or two will set a rider up for life. The trick will be to get teams to sign on. US based and US focussed teas will be a tough sell.

If it can be done, if anyone can do it, these guys will have a really good go at it.
This was my thoughts as well, one or two big names in each class. For the average fan I bet they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Justin bogle speed and Justin barcia speed-wise if they aren't side by side.
2
DonM
Posts
8968
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Fantasy
3/10/2022 6:24am
felpro wrote:
Don !! "Smoke and mirrors" tends to be a term used to suggest deception. Misdirection. You must not have got the memo. The team behind this...
Don !!

"Smoke and mirrors" tends to be a term used to suggest deception. Misdirection. You must not have got the memo.

The team behind this global push has runs on the board. Seriously successful sports entrepreneurship. Foundation based dedication to the sport with no limits to their imagination and showmanship. We are lucky to have these guys interested in this sport.

The expansion and movement of SX towards a being global sport is warranted and can only benefit the sport at every level. The roadblock will be the Americans. There's a view widely held in America that they are the world. The centre of the universe and the totality of the universe. There are world titles granted in the US when no international border was crossed by any participant. However, the US remains the market that everyone wants to move into. International events are time to be consumed by the US market. There's a lot of dollars to be made by anyone who scores even a small goal in that market.

The guys proposing the global SX comp are focussed on all participants in the sport being rewarded for their participation. The teams structure they propose brings the teams to the forefront and makes them of the pulse of the sport.

There are riders who will gravitate towards the global competition at the expense of their participation in the US nationals. I'm sure the situation will arise where they can make more money and live a better life riding 6 or 8 months of the year globally rather than the almost year-round effort required for riding in both the SX and MX events. The global SX will possibly have triple crown events that may well attract older rider where the shorter races require less fitness. I might be wrong there, but there would be riders who would extend their career to race 3 x 12 minute races.

The SX Global series will need only one or two major signings in terms of riders to move into success. One Eli, one Malcolm, one Cooper, one Jorge, one Romain. Well, maybe not Romain . . . One Marvin or Kenny.

SX Global will make phone calls with offers too good to refuse. Participation in a season or two will set a rider up for life. The trick will be to get teams to sign on. US based and US focussed teas will be a tough sell.

If it can be done, if anyone can do it, these guys will have a really good go at it.
I’m aware of who the players are but they haven’t given anybody any specifics and the start of the series is only months away….contracts are being signed already for next year, budgets are already formed and in place for next year…As far as your comment about a widely held view about America and the world…that’s unfortunate and in my opinion unwarranted…What are these world titles that are given out in America that you speak of? I think chances of Marv or Kenny doing a few races are pretty good as it appears they are both headed to either part time racing or retirement, the others I don’t see it…Without the support of the manufacturers they will have a tough go…They can call it whatever they want but a true World Championship has the best of the best in the world participating regardless of the borders they cross…
4
1
Falcon
Posts
12545
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
3/10/2022 8:25am
I'll make it really simple for you guys.

If the top riders can make more money in the new series, they'll move over and the Feld series will die in less than 2 seasons. If not, the new series will die almost immediately.
2
3
soggy
Posts
8964
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
USA
3/10/2022 8:27am
Falcon wrote:
I'll make it really simple for you guys. If the top riders can make more money in the new series, they'll move over and the Feld...
I'll make it really simple for you guys.

If the top riders can make more money in the new series, they'll move over and the Feld series will die in less than 2 seasons. If not, the new series will die almost immediately.
Or it could be an impetus for feld to change some of their philosophies on how to run the series.
2
1
Joey_Bridges
Posts
1550
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Kingston, TN, USA
3/10/2022 8:51am
soggy wrote:
Or it could be an impetus for feld to change some of their philosophies on how to run the series.
Let's hope that's the result.

And for those saying marv and kenny will be lured away ??
They can go.
Those two running rough shod over a group of lesser riders won't be a show that's sustainable for very long.
1
soggy
Posts
8964
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
USA
3/10/2022 9:54am
soggy wrote:
Or it could be an impetus for feld to change some of their philosophies on how to run the series.
Let's hope that's the result. And for those saying marv and kenny will be lured away ?? They can go. Those two running rough shod over...
Let's hope that's the result.

And for those saying marv and kenny will be lured away ??
They can go.
Those two running rough shod over a group of lesser riders won't be a show that's sustainable for very long.
Also they aren’t going to run the series the same time as feld so US supercross is safe.

RG1
Posts
4661
Joined
7/12/2015
Location
GB
3/10/2022 10:50am
DonM wrote:
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now… What are the venues...
It’s all smoke and mirrors at this point…until specifics are known and not speaking in concept and generalities as they are now…
What are the venues?
Who are the teams?
Who are the riders?
How is the purse paid out?
What’s the broadcast going to be like? And how can we watch it?

Until we have specific answers to those questions it’s just noise…end of the day everybody has to make money if anyone along the line doesn’t it will fail…
RaceFace58 wrote:
My sentiments exactly. In the interview they stated that the Paris SX could be considered as a round. That’s basically an arenacross. One thing I envisioned...
My sentiments exactly. In the interview they stated that the Paris SX could be considered as a round. That’s basically an arenacross. One thing I envisioned was them using the giant soccer stadiums, meaning huge tracks. That was one plus I saw. Paris and Geneva are great for one time events. For a World Championship caliber event? No.
flarider wrote:
I have gone to many SX races over there, "Football stadiums" are hallowed grounds. No chances of a race on that grass. If it's not perfect...
I have gone to many SX races over there, "Football stadiums" are hallowed grounds. No chances of a race on that grass. If it's not perfect, someone will stub a toe and well, you know....LOL

Never happen.

Driven by so many beautiful stadiums and asked "why not race in there" and met with only laughter.
At the time of year they are looking at running they should be able to find 5-6 stadiums in Europe to host a SX no problem if they’ve got the money. I can think of at least 4 off the top of my head that have retractable pitches
RaceFace58
Posts
813
Joined
2/6/2022
Location
Meriden, CT, USA
3/10/2022 11:29am
flarider wrote:
Thinking a little further, I see marketing this as a real uphill battle. To us moto guys it's a no brainer, so forget your feelings. But...
Thinking a little further, I see marketing this as a real uphill battle.

To us moto guys it's a no brainer, so forget your feelings.

But they have to find WORLDWIDE sponsors, like Monster, who can benefit from associating their name to it, and that list is pretty small and gets smaller when you bring it into racing, then break it down to motorcycles then to dirt bikers.

Man, that demographic got really small.

Other than the OEM's, what worldwide motorcycle company has the cash and sway to do both AMA and WSX?

This isn't F1 and it's taken F1 decades on TV to get where it is.

You have to convince global CEO/CFO/Marketing people that their ROI worldwide will be well worth it.

That's a hard sell.

Oh, and remember, billboard space on a bike and rider is tiny or totally obscured during a race....
I totally agree and apparently SX series already exist overseas? Is there a French series? Can I name any rider in it? US SX has viewers from all over the world. interesting too about the big soccer stadiums. I foresee Feld stepping up and raising the purse at each round and that will be that. The riders couldn’t care less about a team championship but then they Aldi brought up the idea of benching guys for poor performance and having substitute riders? Who is going to sign with a team with the being on the table? As facts roll out there will be more and more things to pick apart. This seems to be a solution to something that wasn’t a problem. Other than people trying to line their pockets. I don’t know Tony Cochran from a hole in the wall but knowing he was instrumental at Virgin tells me he isn’t coming cheap. He’s not in it to better the sport by any means.
3
4
DonM
Posts
8968
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Fantasy
3/10/2022 11:33am
Falcon wrote:
I'll make it really simple for you guys. If the top riders can make more money in the new series, they'll move over and the Feld...
I'll make it really simple for you guys.

If the top riders can make more money in the new series, they'll move over and the Feld series will die in less than 2 seasons. If not, the new series will die almost immediately.
Not without manufacturer support, contracts for 23 are already being signed and budgets approved and I will bet that many of the top factory teams will not allow their top riders to compete, especially during the proposed dates for summer of 23…
5
RaceFace58
Posts
813
Joined
2/6/2022
Location
Meriden, CT, USA
3/10/2022 11:34am
Falcon wrote:
I'll make it really simple for you guys. If the top riders can make more money in the new series, they'll move over and the Feld...
I'll make it really simple for you guys.

If the top riders can make more money in the new series, they'll move over and the Feld series will die in less than 2 seasons. If not, the new series will die almost immediately.
I can already tell you it’s impossible for any top rider to make MORE money in this new series. Unless that’s all they have is 2 top riders racing each other. No chance US SX dies because of this series. The biggest loser could be the MXGPs.
Joey_Bridges
Posts
1550
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Kingston, TN, USA
3/10/2022 11:39am
And I can't see our outdoor season being at risk either.
soggy
Posts
8964
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
USA
3/10/2022 4:37pm
What’s going to be really strange is when a ‘world champ’ is crowned in this series this fall that may hardly make a main in the US currently. They will need to attract top riders at some point to legitimize a world champion. But I think it’ll happen.
2
3/13/2022 11:26am
soggy wrote:
What’s going to be really strange is when a ‘world champ’ is crowned in this series this fall that may hardly make a main in the...
What’s going to be really strange is when a ‘world champ’ is crowned in this series this fall that may hardly make a main in the US currently. They will need to attract top riders at some point to legitimize a world champion. But I think it’ll happen.
Well their resume will say World Champ.
The Feld SX winners will say domestic champ.
BUT there aint anymore presitge than the US SX series.
1
2

Post a reply to: The new kid in town

The Latest