I think the top 3 on the MXGP circuit could quite possibly come

11/14/2021 3:33am
Mugeneco wrote:
Steve doesnt think so :laugh: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/11/12/518083/s1200_Matthes.jpg[/img]
Steve doesnt think so Laughing


I have made rule for myself a long time ago to ALWAYS ignore and scroll past when Steve talks about the GP’s. For some reason I...
I have made rule for myself a long time ago to ALWAYS ignore and scroll past when Steve talks about the GP’s. For some reason I jumped in to this one and it was utterly ridiculous Laughing he also said the next wave of guys after the top 3 in the US would beat the next wave of guys after the top 3 in the GP’s because the points gap from 3rd to 4th in the US is smaller. He also used Roczen beating Herlings in Europe over 10 years ago and Ferrandis ”running with” Herlings (he beat him in one moto in his career) before coming over as arguments to prove his point. Steve is something between a troll and a full vitard when it comes to the GP vs AMA discussion
Roczen and herlings argument doesn't really hold weight, herlings was clearly a child back then.

Herlings vs ferrandis holds a bit more weight but ferrandis has definitely improved.

This current roczen is still a notch below pre injury.

The only one in the AMA series that would take it to herlings is Tomac if tomac lived and breathed MXGP
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Elliot
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11/14/2021 4:32am Edited Date/Time 11/14/2021 4:33am
Quite a cool Roczen & Herlings video from 2009 when they were little more than kids.



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WCRider
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11/14/2021 9:59pm
Except Herlings, MXGP riders are overrated.
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Sc2
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11/15/2021 12:56am
WCRider wrote:
Except Herlings, MXGP riders are overrated.
Are you pissed? (in the English sense)
3

The Shop

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11/15/2021 1:30am
Mugeneco wrote:
Steve doesnt think so :laugh: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/11/12/518083/s1200_Matthes.jpg[/img]
Steve doesnt think so Laughing


Steve is entitled to his opinion. The riders in the US are the guys he sees week in-week out and so it’s understandable that he would rate them highly.

His justification for saying that the top end of the nationals were faster than the top end of MXGP was that the guys in 4th, 5th and 6th in the US are closer to the Top 3 than they are in MXGP, which I don’t really get. Prado and Cairoli finished 5th and 6th in points, both were genuine title contenders half way through the season before they got injured and missed races. Seewer who was 4th in points struggled with illness and fatigue most of the season, still got podiums and a GP win, and even Coldenhoff and Jonass who were 7th and 8th in points got podiums.

I like Steve a lot, respect his opinion, but I think he’s a bit wide of the mark on this one. One thing is for sure though, when everyone is fit, I think we have some of the most stacked 450 classes we’ve ever seen, both in Europe and the US
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WCRider
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11/15/2021 6:44am
Sc2 wrote:
Are you pissed? (in the English sense)
Not at all. You can't just won the AMA series with 3 DNS. Yes i know the season is shorter than MXGP serie but when you can won a championship with 3 DNS, your series is not as strong as you thing.
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MyBobbym
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11/15/2021 6:57am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2021 6:58am
Sc2 wrote:
Are you pissed? (in the English sense)
WCRider wrote:
Not at all. You can't just won the AMA series with 3 DNS. Yes i know the season is shorter than MXGP serie but when you...
Not at all. You can't just won the AMA series with 3 DNS. Yes i know the season is shorter than MXGP serie but when you can won a championship with 3 DNS, your series is not as strong as you thing.
Has nada to do with anything. Get, buy or steal a clue.
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11/15/2021 1:20pm
WCRider wrote:
Except Herlings, MXGP riders are overrated.
looking at youre profile pic , this makes sense
deanwhite51
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11/15/2021 1:47pm
How are people still saying the USA MX Nationals riders are still faster than the MXGP guys...

Did you not just watch and witness the current MXGP Season?
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philG
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11/15/2021 2:18pm
WCRider wrote:
Not at all. You can't just won the AMA series with 3 DNS. Yes i know the season is shorter than MXGP serie but when you...
Not at all. You can't just won the AMA series with 3 DNS. Yes i know the season is shorter than MXGP serie but when you can won a championship with 3 DNS, your series is not as strong as you thing.
But that proves the point .. in the AMA , if one guy is injured , the next best guy hoovers up all the points, but in MXGP there are 6 of those guys , maybe 7,

Seewer, Febvre, Coldenhoff, Prado,Cairoli, Herlings, Gajser.

So just becasuse Herlings doesnt race, the next guy isnt the same guy.. Gajser broke a collarbone, Febvre wasnt properly on it till later in the season, but the reason the US series isnt so close is because there simply arent enough guys to take points away when things go south.

So if Ferrandis has a bad race, he is always going to be 2nd, here he could be 5th or 6th, simply becasue the racing is tighter, the only thing that makes it easer is the MXGP field is 25 guys so you dont have to try and pass 15 gate fillers.

Dont get me wrong, there are plenty of guys who could win.. but they rarely step up, week in week out to challenge.,

You only need to look at the lack of close total fights, in the last 10 years, and its normally 2 guys hoovering the points up, and everyone else picking up the the peices.

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fanger
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11/15/2021 9:23pm
How about you try convince me the top 3 mxgp riders could be top 3 in supercross?
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POWLEY256
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11/16/2021 12:14am
fanger wrote:
How about you try convince me the top 3 mxgp riders could be top 3 in supercross?
Roczen, musquin, ferrandis plus many many more have all done it so no reason the current mxgp riders wouldnt do the same, plus sx tracks have gotten tamer and tamer over the years so there id say the mxgp riders are probably more likely to come over and do well in supercross straight away.
And the fact that all the top us riders have been training for sx all there lives makes it even more impressive when a mxgp rider comes over and does well in supercross.
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11/17/2021 4:16pm
I brought my caldron stirrer!

You cats are glossing over an important fact.

The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the USA, and riders from the USA. With the exception of a handful of foreigners (most welcome IMHO).

The GPs have riders from all over the world and race tracks all over the world. It takes riders from all over the world, from all the countries in said world, less the USA, to make up a series that can be considered better or faster or equal to, the one country nationals (USA).

Its the whole world against the USA bit again.

Try this...

Take any country in the world. You pick. Then I am going to let you pick any track in the world. I would put our top 10 riders up against any top ten riders from the country that you picked. Guess what the outcome would be...

It takes the whole world's BEST riders to compete (or beat) the riders from one country, the USA. Pretty damn piss poor showing ganging up on 'Merica like that... Tongue

With all of that said.

I was there for the Herlings beat down at Crawfordsville. To fall on the first lap, get up last, and show the AMA boys the way home was truly impressive. Some would consider superhuman. The only other impressive feat I have witnessed was when Barnett fell in the first turn at High Point, got up in last place and showed who was boss in the 125 class.

Flame on...Whistling

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mxb2
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11/17/2021 9:13pm
Whymee wrote:
I brought my caldron stirrer! You cats are glossing over an important fact. The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the...
I brought my caldron stirrer!

You cats are glossing over an important fact.

The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the USA, and riders from the USA. With the exception of a handful of foreigners (most welcome IMHO).

The GPs have riders from all over the world and race tracks all over the world. It takes riders from all over the world, from all the countries in said world, less the USA, to make up a series that can be considered better or faster or equal to, the one country nationals (USA).

Its the whole world against the USA bit again.

Try this...

Take any country in the world. You pick. Then I am going to let you pick any track in the world. I would put our top 10 riders up against any top ten riders from the country that you picked. Guess what the outcome would be...

It takes the whole world's BEST riders to compete (or beat) the riders from one country, the USA. Pretty damn piss poor showing ganging up on 'Merica like that... Tongue

With all of that said.

I was there for the Herlings beat down at Crawfordsville. To fall on the first lap, get up last, and show the AMA boys the way home was truly impressive. Some would consider superhuman. The only other impressive feat I have witnessed was when Barnett fell in the first turn at High Point, got up in last place and showed who was boss in the 125 class.

Flame on...Whistling

I was there also. Great weekend,. Saw tomac win the title. Herlings usa race. I.m a fan of both
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mxb2
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11/17/2021 9:14pm

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11/17/2021 11:22pm Edited Date/Time 11/18/2021 12:12am
Why would they want to go to race a 'regional' race, these guys race for the World title... Bit higher than the American series these days! How about some Americans race the World Championship? Nope... they will get destroyed, time and time again. Tail between legs, better to stick to the AMA races..
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Elliot
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11/18/2021 12:32am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2021 1:32am
Whymee wrote:
I brought my caldron stirrer! You cats are glossing over an important fact. The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the...
I brought my caldron stirrer!

You cats are glossing over an important fact.

The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the USA, and riders from the USA. With the exception of a handful of foreigners (most welcome IMHO).

The GPs have riders from all over the world and race tracks all over the world. It takes riders from all over the world, from all the countries in said world, less the USA, to make up a series that can be considered better or faster or equal to, the one country nationals (USA).

Its the whole world against the USA bit again.

Try this...

Take any country in the world. You pick. Then I am going to let you pick any track in the world. I would put our top 10 riders up against any top ten riders from the country that you picked. Guess what the outcome would be...

It takes the whole world's BEST riders to compete (or beat) the riders from one country, the USA. Pretty damn piss poor showing ganging up on 'Merica like that... Tongue

With all of that said.

I was there for the Herlings beat down at Crawfordsville. To fall on the first lap, get up last, and show the AMA boys the way home was truly impressive. Some would consider superhuman. The only other impressive feat I have witnessed was when Barnett fell in the first turn at High Point, got up in last place and showed who was boss in the 125 class.

Flame on...Whistling

To your suggestion of 10 US riders versus 10 other riders from a given country, we already have MXoN albeit with 3 riders. Remind me, how's USA been doing with that?
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RG1
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11/18/2021 1:59am
Whymee wrote:
I brought my caldron stirrer! You cats are glossing over an important fact. The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the...
I brought my caldron stirrer!

You cats are glossing over an important fact.

The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the USA, and riders from the USA. With the exception of a handful of foreigners (most welcome IMHO).

The GPs have riders from all over the world and race tracks all over the world. It takes riders from all over the world, from all the countries in said world, less the USA, to make up a series that can be considered better or faster or equal to, the one country nationals (USA).

Its the whole world against the USA bit again.

Try this...

Take any country in the world. You pick. Then I am going to let you pick any track in the world. I would put our top 10 riders up against any top ten riders from the country that you picked. Guess what the outcome would be...

It takes the whole world's BEST riders to compete (or beat) the riders from one country, the USA. Pretty damn piss poor showing ganging up on 'Merica like that... Tongue

With all of that said.

I was there for the Herlings beat down at Crawfordsville. To fall on the first lap, get up last, and show the AMA boys the way home was truly impressive. Some would consider superhuman. The only other impressive feat I have witnessed was when Barnett fell in the first turn at High Point, got up in last place and showed who was boss in the 125 class.

Flame on...Whistling

You can’t compare the USA to individual European nations, the USA gulfs the vast majority of nations that compete at the MXdN, in size, population, and in racing terms, the number of factory rides available. Europe v USA is a perfectly fair comparison. It’s not really much of an achievement to say your best 10 riders are better than Belgium’s best 10 riders when there are almost twice as many people living in New York State alone than there is in Belgium


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11/18/2021 4:51am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2021 4:55am
Whymee wrote:
I brought my caldron stirrer! You cats are glossing over an important fact. The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the...
I brought my caldron stirrer!

You cats are glossing over an important fact.

The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the USA, and riders from the USA. With the exception of a handful of foreigners (most welcome IMHO).

The GPs have riders from all over the world and race tracks all over the world. It takes riders from all over the world, from all the countries in said world, less the USA, to make up a series that can be considered better or faster or equal to, the one country nationals (USA).

Its the whole world against the USA bit again.

Try this...

Take any country in the world. You pick. Then I am going to let you pick any track in the world. I would put our top 10 riders up against any top ten riders from the country that you picked. Guess what the outcome would be...

It takes the whole world's BEST riders to compete (or beat) the riders from one country, the USA. Pretty damn piss poor showing ganging up on 'Merica like that... Tongue

With all of that said.

I was there for the Herlings beat down at Crawfordsville. To fall on the first lap, get up last, and show the AMA boys the way home was truly impressive. Some would consider superhuman. The only other impressive feat I have witnessed was when Barnett fell in the first turn at High Point, got up in last place and showed who was boss in the 125 class.

Flame on...Whistling

just 3 riders from the netherlands was enough to beat team USA the last few MXON events
keep it real as its one of the smallest countries in Europe in size and population











mxb2
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11/18/2021 7:01am
Whymee wrote:
I brought my caldron stirrer! You cats are glossing over an important fact. The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the...
I brought my caldron stirrer!

You cats are glossing over an important fact.

The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the USA, and riders from the USA. With the exception of a handful of foreigners (most welcome IMHO).

The GPs have riders from all over the world and race tracks all over the world. It takes riders from all over the world, from all the countries in said world, less the USA, to make up a series that can be considered better or faster or equal to, the one country nationals (USA).

Its the whole world against the USA bit again.

Try this...

Take any country in the world. You pick. Then I am going to let you pick any track in the world. I would put our top 10 riders up against any top ten riders from the country that you picked. Guess what the outcome would be...

It takes the whole world's BEST riders to compete (or beat) the riders from one country, the USA. Pretty damn piss poor showing ganging up on 'Merica like that... Tongue

With all of that said.

I was there for the Herlings beat down at Crawfordsville. To fall on the first lap, get up last, and show the AMA boys the way home was truly impressive. Some would consider superhuman. The only other impressive feat I have witnessed was when Barnett fell in the first turn at High Point, got up in last place and showed who was boss in the 125 class.

Flame on...Whistling

Elliot wrote:
To your suggestion of 10 US riders versus 10 other riders from a given country, we already have MXoN albeit with 3 riders. Remind me, how's...
To your suggestion of 10 US riders versus 10 other riders from a given country, we already have MXoN albeit with 3 riders. Remind me, how's USA been doing with that?
Still.with the most mxon wins.
6
jjavaman
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11/18/2021 11:02am
Whymee wrote:
I brought my caldron stirrer! You cats are glossing over an important fact. The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the...
I brought my caldron stirrer!

You cats are glossing over an important fact.

The US Nationals are exactly that, held in the USA, tracks in the USA, and riders from the USA. With the exception of a handful of foreigners (most welcome IMHO).

The GPs have riders from all over the world and race tracks all over the world. It takes riders from all over the world, from all the countries in said world, less the USA, to make up a series that can be considered better or faster or equal to, the one country nationals (USA).

Its the whole world against the USA bit again.

Try this...

Take any country in the world. You pick. Then I am going to let you pick any track in the world. I would put our top 10 riders up against any top ten riders from the country that you picked. Guess what the outcome would be...

It takes the whole world's BEST riders to compete (or beat) the riders from one country, the USA. Pretty damn piss poor showing ganging up on 'Merica like that... Tongue

With all of that said.

I was there for the Herlings beat down at Crawfordsville. To fall on the first lap, get up last, and show the AMA boys the way home was truly impressive. Some would consider superhuman. The only other impressive feat I have witnessed was when Barnett fell in the first turn at High Point, got up in last place and showed who was boss in the 125 class.

Flame on...Whistling

Elliot wrote:
To your suggestion of 10 US riders versus 10 other riders from a given country, we already have MXoN albeit with 3 riders. Remind me, how's...
To your suggestion of 10 US riders versus 10 other riders from a given country, we already have MXoN albeit with 3 riders. Remind me, how's USA been doing with that?
mxb2 wrote:
Still.with the most mxon wins.
And now they’re afraid to show up🥴🥴
mxb2
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11/18/2021 11:04am
Elliot wrote:
To your suggestion of 10 US riders versus 10 other riders from a given country, we already have MXoN albeit with 3 riders. Remind me, how's...
To your suggestion of 10 US riders versus 10 other riders from a given country, we already have MXoN albeit with 3 riders. Remind me, how's USA been doing with that?
mxb2 wrote:
Still.with the most mxon wins.
jjavaman wrote:
And now they’re afraid to show up🥴🥴
Lol. When they pass. The usa win total let me know.
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RG1
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11/18/2021 12:56pm
mxb2 wrote:
Still.with the most mxon wins.
jjavaman wrote:
And now they’re afraid to show up🥴🥴
mxb2 wrote:
Lol. When they pass. The usa win total let me know.
Let’s switch it for a few years. We’ll pick the best 3 European riders and you pick the best 3 riders from each state. See how often your guys win
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mxb2
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11/18/2021 1:00pm
jjavaman wrote:
And now they’re afraid to show up🥴🥴
mxb2 wrote:
Lol. When they pass. The usa win total let me know.
RG1 wrote:
Let’s switch it for a few years. We’ll pick the best 3 European riders and you pick the best 3 riders from each state. See how...
Let’s switch it for a few years. We’ll pick the best 3 European riders and you pick the best 3 riders from each state. See how often your guys win
Why, because its not realistic. Yea. Change the rules for you. Lol. Ok.
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Park Boys
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11/18/2021 1:07pm
WCRider wrote:
Not at all. You can't just won the AMA series with 3 DNS. Yes i know the season is shorter than MXGP serie but when you...
Not at all. You can't just won the AMA series with 3 DNS. Yes i know the season is shorter than MXGP serie but when you can won a championship with 3 DNS, your series is not as strong as you thing.
philG wrote:
But that proves the point .. in the AMA , if one guy is injured , the next best guy hoovers up all the points, but...
But that proves the point .. in the AMA , if one guy is injured , the next best guy hoovers up all the points, but in MXGP there are 6 of those guys , maybe 7,

Seewer, Febvre, Coldenhoff, Prado,Cairoli, Herlings, Gajser.

So just becasuse Herlings doesnt race, the next guy isnt the same guy.. Gajser broke a collarbone, Febvre wasnt properly on it till later in the season, but the reason the US series isnt so close is because there simply arent enough guys to take points away when things go south.

So if Ferrandis has a bad race, he is always going to be 2nd, here he could be 5th or 6th, simply becasue the racing is tighter, the only thing that makes it easer is the MXGP field is 25 guys so you dont have to try and pass 15 gate fillers.

Dont get me wrong, there are plenty of guys who could win.. but they rarely step up, week in week out to challenge.,

You only need to look at the lack of close total fights, in the last 10 years, and its normally 2 guys hoovering the points up, and everyone else picking up the the peices.

Lack of title fights in the last 10 years? This GP season was fantastically close. When was the last close one before this? Don’t matter where these races are held, injuries are always a deciding factor.

Last year the gap to second was 102 points, 2019 it was 202 points, 2018 it was 151 points. I think You get the point.The avg margin over the last 10 years looks to be around 100 points.
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RG1
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11/18/2021 1:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/18/2021 1:36pm
mxb2 wrote:
Lol. When they pass. The usa win total let me know.
RG1 wrote:
Let’s switch it for a few years. We’ll pick the best 3 European riders and you pick the best 3 riders from each state. See how...
Let’s switch it for a few years. We’ll pick the best 3 European riders and you pick the best 3 riders from each state. See how often your guys win
mxb2 wrote:
Why, because its not realistic. Yea. Change the rules for you. Lol. Ok.
No I’m saying you have so many wins because compared to the individual nations you are competing against, you have a massive advantage. If you put yourself in their position, you would see how difficult it is for them to win. You absolutely should have the most wins, it would be embarrassing if you didn’t.

You have almost an entire continent worth of riders, 15-20 factory riders in each class, to chose from. Countries like The Netherlands, GBR, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy etc. Might get one golden generation of 3 or 4 factory guys every 10-20 years that’s good enough to win for them, if they’re lucky, and if they’re all fit at the same time

So imagine it the other way around. How many states can beat a team of Herlings, Vialle and Ferrandis?
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philG
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11/18/2021 1:31pm
mxb2 wrote:
Lol. When they pass. The usa win total let me know.
RG1 wrote:
Let’s switch it for a few years. We’ll pick the best 3 European riders and you pick the best 3 riders from each state. See how...
Let’s switch it for a few years. We’ll pick the best 3 European riders and you pick the best 3 riders from each state. See how often your guys win
mxb2 wrote:
Why, because its not realistic. Yea. Change the rules for you. Lol. Ok.
Its totally realistic,

Its just the same in reverse.

I can drive across Belgium and Holland in 2 hours. They are small countries by comparison. With a small population.



Its why the Ryder Cup is like it is, because doing it any other way , is just dumb, based on population and participation.

And as was said, we have the same amount of factory rides, split between 15 countries. As i stands now, we have one in the UK, yet we can get on the box 3 years in a row.


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ATKpilot99
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11/18/2021 1:37pm
China should win it every year .
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Park Boys
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11/18/2021 1:38pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
China should win it every year .
Being thoroughly challenged by India.
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RG1
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11/18/2021 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 11/18/2021 1:44pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
China should win it every year .
Almost every sport that China has a decent level of interest in they dominate. Check the medal table of any Olympics, you’ll see China, USA and Russia up there every single time. They have more people, which equals bigger talent pool, which equals more success. Size and population makes a massive difference, it’s just common sense
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