Posts
670
Joined
4/1/2018
Location
Fresno, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time
10/1/2021 11:48pm
This one is almost done already. I procrastinated badly on uploading updates on the 1992 CR 250 that I was able to get this one just about finished.
Hopefully I have done the process of restoration justice on this one also.
Quick links to the 2 done
1995 Honda CR 250 - Press Me
1992 Honda CR 250 - Press Me
This 86 was one of three bikes I bought as a group. Don the seller sold me these and hooked me up with everything he had for off road bikes. Great seller and incredibly genuine and generous. I tipped him a couple hundred dollars since he gave me so much.
Found the for sale ad in Facebook Marketplace. He had a 93 CR 250 that I was most interested in. He wouldn’t sell it separately so I bought the lot. I have been so focused on mid 90 Honda’s is why I really did not want the 86 Honda and early 90 Yamaha WR. Based on prices today for used bikes yes they were cheap. Heck it was a smoking deal when I moved on it back then.
So me and the girlfriend rolled down there with the trailer.
I started the 86 next since Don had disassembled the motor and all of it was in a bin. I was concerned with additional exposure outdoors and simply freeing up space.
Fortunately Don must have purchased all the replacement parts some time ago. Everything was original Honda and included all bearings and seals along with top end. Had a complete Honda gasket set and shop manual.
Crank was rebuilt and the cylinder was in perfect shape. He also had in the wrapping a brand new right side case water pump housing. This was a huge score as these are near impossible to find.
Pressure washed it prior to a full strip. I do not pressure wash complete bikes unless I will be completely disassembling them. Always careful use of Simple Green and a garden hose only on bikes not slated for complete disassembly. Just my way.
Don had a dual purpose tire on this. Not sure why as I didn’t ask him. He gave me quite a few new tires and there were several dual purpose ones. He said he would go out to the desert and take relatives riding. First time ever seeing a dual purpose tire on a motocrosser only.
First thing I do is tackle the water pump corrosion on the original clutch housing. Coming next.
Thanks for checking out my restores….
Hopefully I have done the process of restoration justice on this one also.
Quick links to the 2 done
1995 Honda CR 250 - Press Me
1992 Honda CR 250 - Press Me
This 86 was one of three bikes I bought as a group. Don the seller sold me these and hooked me up with everything he had for off road bikes. Great seller and incredibly genuine and generous. I tipped him a couple hundred dollars since he gave me so much.
Found the for sale ad in Facebook Marketplace. He had a 93 CR 250 that I was most interested in. He wouldn’t sell it separately so I bought the lot. I have been so focused on mid 90 Honda’s is why I really did not want the 86 Honda and early 90 Yamaha WR. Based on prices today for used bikes yes they were cheap. Heck it was a smoking deal when I moved on it back then.
So me and the girlfriend rolled down there with the trailer.
I started the 86 next since Don had disassembled the motor and all of it was in a bin. I was concerned with additional exposure outdoors and simply freeing up space.
Fortunately Don must have purchased all the replacement parts some time ago. Everything was original Honda and included all bearings and seals along with top end. Had a complete Honda gasket set and shop manual.
Crank was rebuilt and the cylinder was in perfect shape. He also had in the wrapping a brand new right side case water pump housing. This was a huge score as these are near impossible to find.
Pressure washed it prior to a full strip. I do not pressure wash complete bikes unless I will be completely disassembling them. Always careful use of Simple Green and a garden hose only on bikes not slated for complete disassembly. Just my way.
Don had a dual purpose tire on this. Not sure why as I didn’t ask him. He gave me quite a few new tires and there were several dual purpose ones. He said he would go out to the desert and take relatives riding. First time ever seeing a dual purpose tire on a motocrosser only.
First thing I do is tackle the water pump corrosion on the original clutch housing. Coming next.
Thanks for checking out my restores….
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Free shipping: VITALMX
I have a brand new unused right side case but chose to try and restore the original.
There is loads of information on options regarding these covers. I will share of course those options. I made sure to research options before choosing a particular approach.
Replacement covers are offered as made in Australia. Evidently he is not offering any but this is temporarily.
Honda CR clutch cover replacements - Press me
This is a great thread on solutions for magnesium water pump covers. Part numbers for ordering later model still manufactured covers and retro fitting. Honda water pumps and options - Press Me
As is.
Off to the Harbor Freight blast cabinet. I have used nothing but glass beads for years. Just works for me.
Important to bead blast this area prior to repair. You should remove all the contaminates. Additionally this will expose areas or depth of an area that needs to be repaired. Glass beads is a perfect media for this kind of clean up. Abrasive enough without chewing through thin areas.
I was fortunate that the recessed seal area was just about intact. I am more worried about leaks in areas I may not have sealed vs the actual seal area.
I used Devcon on this repair in place of the ever popular JB Weld. Devcon offers quite a few different epoxies. So you can choose one based on your needs. What I used.
I used a piece of thin wood like an ice cream stick which I split to make half as wide. This would help in spreading the material in hard to reach areas.
After drying completely I used my portable mill aka Dremel to clean up the epoxy. I just take my time and listen or feel for cutting on metal. I used my flashlight to project light from different areas to look for pin holes. For the gasket mating surface I used a flat file very lightly. Go slow with this tool as its super easy to cut areas lower than others.
I did follow up with a second application of Devcon after smoothing these areas. I wanted to rebuild some areas I felt I too aggressively trimmed down with the Dremel.
I am reasonably confident I have re-sealed this area. I would use the radiator water alternatives exclusively with this form of repair. And even then I would probably drain whatever I used if the bike was going to sit for months.
I have that new cover if this doesn’t hold or work. I would certainly go this route again before replacement of the cover.
Since I had the bike as a roller I decided to insure the nuts and bolts went back where they needed to. My plan was to clean all of them up and get them recoated.
It was obvious to me the bike was low hour to begin with and such I didn’t see much if any replacement parts.
So I decided to be as true to the originality of the bike by labeling and measuring the bolts. Than I wrote down where they came from with the measurement and shot a quick phone pic.
This ultimately worked extremely well for me. Such that I will continue to use it. It just simplified the process of using the correct fasteners and tracking their location.
I’m sure for some of you veterans of restores you do not need to do this.
Don did a great job keeping the engine parts together and so all I had to do was sort though the various bags and boxes to separate what I had.
The cases had been prepped for building so no gasket material to scrape. All I needed to do was bead blast cases and cylinder/head and Cerakote it all with a bake to cure.
He indeed had all the bearings/seals/replacement screws/piston/rings/complete gasket kit and on and on. Best of all everything was genuine Honda. This saved me a ton of money and grief.
Pretty straightforward building the motor. Spent some time on the tranny making sure it was correct. After what happened with that 92 and a misplaced washer I was going to make no errors on this one. Since I wasn’t the one who disassembled this motor created even more time spent. A Honda shop manual is invaluable in doing this. Despite that I still referenced the net for greater detail.
That power valve set up……
When you compare a mid 90s CR system to this you would be amazed by the simplicity of the newer.
As I understood it the production rule was in place. I have to wonder how much of that rule change influenced the complexity of the system.
If you have messed with it than you already understand. It is insanely complex.
The shop manual simply wasn’t enough to put one of these together when you never took it apart. Fortunately there is loads of info from others who struggled with it on the net.
All Honda top end parts with an extra Wiseco piston. I used the Honda parts only on the top end.
Cleaned up the reed block and used the reeds that were installed. I first removed them and cleaned the carbon off. Plenty springy and closed easily. No fraying.
So motor done. Shifts like it should. I of course checked it before I had the clutch together just to make sure no surprises. So tilting and shifting.
Of course you never really know if it’s right until firing it up. No plans to do so unless whoever buys it wants to hear it run. All new parts, rebuilt crank and everything torqued to spec. My only uncertainty is the water pump. Did I truly seal it. Fortunately I have this just in case…..
So far I have tried several methods to restore hardware. This has been an effort to find something that simplifies the process.
When restoring older bikes you really do not have much of a choice. I’m okay with this since I want to use as much of the original components as possible.
Ultra sonic did not work for me. I tried several times and was unimpressed.
I even tried using the machines that I have to clean and polish brass. In place of corn cob or walnut shells as media I purchased media designed for metals.
Now this certainly worked and could be a solution for someone who wants to spend minimal time on hardware cleanup. I even was able to put the spokes inside my largest vibrating machine.
I would leave these running for hours. Typically over night.
I still had to utilize the various buffing wheels and other methods I covered in both the 92 and 95 restores.
If you choose you can review those methods as I went into great depth showing the process.
The 95 I laboriously restored the hardware and cerakoted all of it.
The 92 I did the same labor intensive metal recondition and had it professionally zinc covered.
It looks like going forward I will spend the time cleaning up all the hardware by hand and re-zinc. Using Cerakote to cover the parts is a great surface protector. Pitted rusted parts can benefit from this. But so can they from re-coating of zinc. Your hardware will look the best recoated if you spend the time prepping or cleaning it up.
If it’s steel I will get it zinc coated. Aluminum will be cerkote.
Spokes take an insane amount of time to clean up. I ran every one on a bench grinder with a 3m abrasive wheel. Even after using the vibrating media. The abrasive wheels give the metal a brighter finish than any other method I have used.
Bottom spokes is original. Next vibrating media and top is buffing abrasive wheel.
I will spend a great deal of time with prepping metal. First typically a wire wheel before bead blast. If shooting Cerakote the bead blast leaves a great surface for the paint to adhere to. I wipe it down well prior to that application.
For this 86 I had some of the steel hardware done with yelllow zinc. I believe that’s what they call it. Doing certain parts with this color really stands out and looks more stock/original. It cost nothing more to have this done and going forward will do this more.
I forgot to add a pic of all the Cerakote I applied on the engine cases and cylinder/head. The springs I had powder coated.
Spokes and nipples.
First time I chose to restore all of those. Never again. Way too much crazy effort. I went this route on the 86 since I knew finding replacement ones would be difficult due to the different lengths on the rear wheel.
When I start offering restoring professionally I will at least know just how much work it takes.
Looking good on that 86 my friend. Thank you for the 411 on spokes and nipples. Like I said I wouldn’t restore those again.
Rebuild on the shock. First time rebuilding one this old.
Not in horrible shape and pretty much what I would expect for a shock never serviced.
Back in the day almost all the used bikes I purchased I never serviced the suspension. Just never a consideration. I bought my own bikes and was always purchasing well used ones.
This would be one of the first things I would do when buying a used bike. Suspension and linkage servicing just make a night and day difference in how the bike rides and feels.
Taking it apart was really not much different than a piggyback. I did pay attention to how the hose was ran.
Getting the seal head out was extremely difficult. I literally smashed my pinky pounding out the clevis. Hit it so hard it squished and ripped open the skin to the side. Worse injury restoring so far haha… I am sure I will have plenty of opportunity to do more.
I took the time to remove mold lines and soften angles. 3m wheels and Dremel work. Next was glass bead blast for prep before cerkote. I just prefer a uniform appearance and subtle finish. Cerakote is excellent for refinishing this stuff. Extremely durable, covers fast and applied ultra thin.
I taped off the stickers.
The old oil actually wasn’t in that bad of shape. Lots of aluminum in it as to be expected. I had the spring adjusters yellow zinc coated just to bring a little bit of color.
Spring was powder coated. I made no effort to match Honda’s color. I just picked a blue that looked right.
I do not send out so much as I drop them off at one of the many plating services here in my area.
The key to getting your hardware to come out looking like new is the prep.
I hand restore every nut and bolt before plating. Even to include cleaning the insides of the bolts which are hollow.
I was very detailed in how I did this on the 95 restore.
Most do too little on really prepping the metal prior to coating.
There will certainly be a local plating company for you. As long as you clean your items well the process of plating is very straightforward.
Restoring these is just another massive labor investment. If you are fine with buying the GPI ones than you are saving yourself hours worth of work.
These are very similar to the other ones I have done. Always needing a little bit of re-alignment. Vice with padded jaws, pieces of wood like maybe 1x2 and a hammer. Laying the wood parallel to the surface you are moving as to spread out the impacts.
That aluminum moves very easily with this method.
The lower right corner of the right one is slightly collapsed.
Okay
These early bikes with the magnesium right side covers are notorious for water pump rot. That material is drawn up through the radiators and clogs the transfer channels in them. My experience has shown the one above the water pump or right side will be severely clogged.
There are many suggested ways to clean these. I had some early 90 KTM 300s that were severely clogged. I tried a professional boiling service or radiator repair shop. They couldn’t get it out.
Research on the net lead me to buying battery acid from a auto parts store. I used 1 part acid to possibly 5 or more parts water and let it sit in plugged off radiators. Watch them. You will immediately see the acid bubbling and lifting the contamination.
Finally rinse the hell out of them. I don’t think you can rinse them too much. I would let them sit in a 5 gallon bucket filled with clean water after rinsing.
After all this I straighten the fins by hand watching TV. Two small flat blade screwdrivers is what I use. This takes the longest.
After that it’s Cerakote and bake.
Pit Row
I clamped the rad in a vice, spot welded the studs, attached the rod and slide hammer (dent puller) and after a few strokes, the results were worth considering. By the time I was done playing around, I decided to do this to two other bent-up-turds I had laying around.
After pulling them back to spec - removing the studs was a simple process, some of them will break away clean and the others I just cut them off with wire cutters and did some minimal grinding, put a final hand sand on the tack areas, blasted entire rad with silica, sprayed some no bake cerakote on them and BRRRAP I was back in business...
Keep the pics coming brother man... I want to see all three... Hehehe...
Triples, front brake and forks.
Same approach as the others.
Forks off and undeterred by the job ahead to clean up
There are some battle scars on the lowers. I plan to strip off the finish and soften the edges of the cuts into the aluminum.
Disassembled prior to abrasive wheels and Dremel work.
Hard to tell but I have began the clean up and seam removal. The Dremel with the small sanding drums make quick work of the seam lines. But you have to go over those again to soften the marks left.
I pull the triples. The seam lines are much heavier on these than the later generations.
Front brake master cylinder oil level viewing window. This was badly aged. Had to use the original 86 one since the later series I have the brake line mounts differently. I wanted to maintain as much originality as possible. This meant also re-using the brake line after cleaning it up as much as possible.
About as good as I could get the sight window. At least you can see the level of the oil.
The front disc I simply followed what I have done before. Glass bead blast the disc and tape off the friction area. Cerakote black and bake. Cleaned up the caliper and hanger. Rebuilt them with new seals.
I didn’t mean to use 2 different colors on the mounting hardware for the disc and cover.
Here is the triples done and already back on. Cerakoted and all the metal re-plated. Make no mistake all those bolts and washers were restored by hand prior to plating. It always makes a huge difference.
Don gave me a O’Neal brand of steel bars which were new. I prepped them and cerakoted.
I bought some new Honda boots for the legs. Don had some aftermarket ones which were a slightly different shade of blue. He did have brand new stock Honda clamps for them. Very thoughtful of him.
The Honda ones had creases in the accordion edges. They wouldn’t come out.
I collapsed them down and tightened the clamps. I left them like this for several days. The creases released and they are fine.
Forks all back together with new seals and wipers. Honda fork oil used and I filled them per the manual.
I should add that I torqued every nut and bolt to the Honda specs.
That service manual is excellent as a resource. I wouldn’t think of doing a restore without one.
That’s me.
It’s actually an amazing product. The dyes that they make it from provides incredible coverage with super thin coats. I use the type you have to oven cure. When you compare the protection you get from that series it is actually a very easy choice. The issue is I am limited to how big items I can bake. Pipes I have done. Rims do not fit in my oven I made from 2 smokers.
In my 95 restore thread I went into great depth on how you can also cerakote. What to use and where to buy the items.
And yes, I actually restored the fuel line pinch clips.
Kickstarter clean up. It’s the small things and maintaining a high level of detail. This one is actually a used one for a Honda CR500 86 I believe. Extremely well used and loose.
Rear drum brake backing. Stripped down and all parts restored.
Trust me, I make an effort to pay it forward. Not as much as I should here in Vital.
Wheels?…..Okay just to get it out of the way.
Since this was going to be the first bike I make a concerted effort to use everything original I braced for removing all the spokes. Past bikes I just cut them.
Let’s definitely say I am not doing this again unless a client wants to be a purist.
Heat and clamping the spokes with vice grips where they cross each other is the key.
The stock rims were actually in very good shape.
The nightmare of cleaning up all the spokes and nipples. So I tried the vibrating machine with small cylinder shaped media. Media designed for polishing mostly soft metals but should clean most anything if left long enough.
This method certainly cleaned up the material but did not polish it like the abrasive wheels do. I faced the reality I would still need to by hand run every spoke on the bench abrasive wheel machine.
Days later I was able to haul all my hardware to the re-plater.
An hour later I finally was able to get all those bits and pieces separated from how the re-plater hangs them. Now that is some work for that guy.
So I lace up the rear rim and get it trued.
But I’m having massive second thoughts. I know this bike is going to look great. I’m concerned that the rims may be the one element that detracts from the over all look.
Don gave me an Excel rear new in the box. Unfortunately the matching front was on his 94 CR 250 I also bought. He must have done this and just never finished exchanging them.
So I pulled out the 94 and shot my before images. Took the front off. Disassembled it by removing the nipples off the spokes.
I’m glad I did.
The front was no issue. Worked fine.
Now that rear…… That was a nightmare. You obviously know your restores and what works and doesn’t.
I made the rear work and this is fine for someone who doesn’t plan to aggressively ride it. My best course of action would be to try and see if the stockers can be re-anodized or pony up the fat dollars and go with one of the known wheel builders.
I now know it’s near impossible to find a Excel rear for that year bike.
The problem I ran into with vintage wire wheels with these newer Excel rims, is that the oem nipples are undersized. The nipple flanges on the vintage oem stuff sits to shallow in each of the nipple seats on the wheel itself. The extra gap between the flange hole and the rim leaves me concerned as well. I totally get the aggressive riding disclaimer. Then the other issue is that any nipples currently available from Excel are not thread compatible with vintage oem spokes.
Speaking of wheel builders, maybe you heard of Buchanan's Spoke & Rim? (Rumor has it, Bob Hannah used their products on his OW bikes) They are very much in business today and still offers made to order spoke & nipple kits. Plus, they offer all kinds of spokes and nipples in different materials, gauges, thread sizes, diameters and once I start my wheels, these will be my go to guys. Check em out at http://www.buchananspokes.com. You will never have to worry about wheel integrity with these guys and you can be 100% compatible with all kinds of wheel configurations and specifications.
They are in Southern Cali., been in business since the late 50's and is a second gen family owned biz and will be a valuable resource for your current and future builds. Jim Buchanan's son Kennie is the go to guy, or used to be...
Here’s my engine- just been rebuilt my builder is a genius and he’s cleaned up some ugly casting issues.
Thanks 1SG for the link and the info. I haven’t done a bike to this level past a 92. The issues with restoring a bike before 90 has tempered my willingness to do another. The wheels created a good deal of this.
Restoring the plastics is no joke either. This aspect probably stalled me the most. I finally learned scraping first followed by light wet sanding.
Buffing the plastic with a soft fabric wheel easily brings the shine.
Thanks again for the info and link.
I rebuilt my 02 CR250R which is on my Bike Check about 5 years ago, that was so much more fun than dealing with an 81 Yamaha 4V2 - this ordeal has been well over a decade long process and is responsible for an ultra thin wallet.
I have literally bought and sold almost a half dozen of this model bike over the years with the intentions to restore them and never get around to doing anything with them but selling them off, meanwhile most of my bank account is sitting in boxes, inside of boxes inside yet more boxes. LOL. Your thread has given me the inspiration and motivation to get in there an start putting this money to work...
Alright brother man, I am gonna call it a night and wait for you to post pictures of your final assembly, I feel like I am getting a little spammish in your thread, but if ya need some ideals and or have questions to make your life easier with the older bikes, hit me up...
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