Homo Rule- 7200 production bikes for 500 pro riders?

Johnny Depp
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8/25/2021 5:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2021 5:48pm
xrmark wrote:
The dude is so lost. Probably has no idea which one of his unbelievably stupid threads he’s responding in. It’s crazy the extents he’ll go to...
The dude is so lost. Probably has no idea which one of his unbelievably stupid threads he’s responding in. It’s crazy the extents he’ll go to defend a bike that comes with Sachs suspension and breaks after it’s first tip over
Sometimes I feel like a squirrel planting acorns, and forgetting where. I do like TT because it prompts you when someone responds or likes etc. Guy B seems to have laid the ground work to bring some changes here as well.

As far as the Sachs forks and alleged reliability that you refer to, I again remind you of 6 consecutive EnduroGP titles, along with over a dozen minor titles. A 7th title is in play. I know that pains you to hear, but it's a fact.

And congratulations on breaking 1000 posts. STFU noob.
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xrmark
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8/25/2021 6:19pm
Sometimes I feel like a squirrel planting acorns, and forgetting where. I do like TT because it prompts you when someone responds or likes etc. Guy...
Sometimes I feel like a squirrel planting acorns, and forgetting where. I do like TT because it prompts you when someone responds or likes etc. Guy B seems to have laid the ground work to bring some changes here as well.

As far as the Sachs forks and alleged reliability that you refer to, I again remind you of 6 consecutive EnduroGP titles, along with over a dozen minor titles. A 7th title is in play. I know that pains you to hear, but it's a fact.

And congratulations on breaking 1000 posts. STFU noob.
Funny beta story here. Was at cahuilla, my buddy’s dad has one. Was ranting and raving how great and reliable it was. Goes out to ride the trails and comes back with a broken exhaust protector thing or whatever the hell it is, blinkers snapped off, and you could dam near bottom that Sachs suspension out just by sitting on it, seemed like a great bike! 20 minutes later, Goes out to do laps on the track, dam thing wouldn’t start. Sure as shit one week later he’s back with a Yamaha, an actual reliable dirt bike with real suspension. That’s cool that the beta factory can make a winning bike for there top enduro boys. But I’ve yet to see a beta readily available to the public that actually works.
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soggy
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8/25/2021 6:37pm
I realize not everyone follows my prolific pontificating profusely, but if you read the threads a little before posting based off of the title and an...
I realize not everyone follows my prolific pontificating profusely, but if you read the threads a little before posting based off of the title and an assumption you'll see my rudder is steady.

Again, Beta has this already handled. This is about fighting for the other little guys like Beta used to be. They could have been in years ago if not for the barrier to entry.
🗣🗣 how do you even know the other brands want to race in the US? It costs millions to run a team. I’m sure the majority of the boutique brands wouldn’t bother.
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APLMAN99
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8/25/2021 6:40pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
So now you are saying that the homologation rule isn't going to be an impediment to Beta?

Make up your mind.........
I realize not everyone follows my prolific pontificating profusely, but if you read the threads a little before posting based off of the title and an...
I realize not everyone follows my prolific pontificating profusely, but if you read the threads a little before posting based off of the title and an assumption you'll see my rudder is steady.

Again, Beta has this already handled. This is about fighting for the other little guys like Beta used to be. They could have been in years ago if not for the barrier to entry.
You edit 60-75% of your posts, so obviously even you can’t stand behind most of your inane verbal vomit on the first pass……
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The Shop

Johnny Depp
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8/25/2021 9:37pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
You edit 60-75% of your posts, so obviously even you can’t stand behind most of your inane verbal vomit on the first pass……
Spellign maters, I don't want Falcon on my ass.
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Johnny Depp
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8/25/2021 10:05pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2021 11:40am
soggy wrote:
🗣🗣 how do you even know the other brands want to race in the US? It costs millions to run a team. I’m sure the majority...
🗣🗣 how do you even know the other brands want to race in the US? It costs millions to run a team. I’m sure the majority of the boutique brands wouldn’t bother.
Suzuki isn't spending millions. If other brands won't even race, what is the problem letting them in?
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Johnny Depp
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8/25/2021 10:07pm
xrmark wrote:
Funny beta story here. Was at cahuilla, my buddy’s dad has one. Was ranting and raving how great and reliable it was. Goes out to ride...
Funny beta story here. Was at cahuilla, my buddy’s dad has one. Was ranting and raving how great and reliable it was. Goes out to ride the trails and comes back with a broken exhaust protector thing or whatever the hell it is, blinkers snapped off, and you could dam near bottom that Sachs suspension out just by sitting on it, seemed like a great bike! 20 minutes later, Goes out to do laps on the track, dam thing wouldn’t start. Sure as shit one week later he’s back with a Yamaha, an actual reliable dirt bike with real suspension. That’s cool that the beta factory can make a winning bike for there top enduro boys. But I’ve yet to see a beta readily available to the public that actually works.
Thinking of an appropriate response that isn't too rude...

Thanks for the post and the bump!
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Bearuno
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8/26/2021 3:39am
Within all of this bickering, I'd (like) to think most here would support a reduction in homologation numbers required for smaller manufacturers to be able to compete in the US Nationals. And, a lesser homologation fee.

That would enable, perhaps (well probably) not a Big Rig equipped Team, but, perhaps 'Box Van' level teams.

And, give smaller teams / privateers an option.

As ever, DC & Co hold the key to this - well, maybe the Big manufacturers really do, we see it with Equivalency being blocked.

The standard reply from the AMA on rules and regulations, it's been seen many times, is to refer questions of R & R's to MX Sports. It Should be dealt with by DC & Co.

Come on DC, give the little Manufacturers a decent chance to participate, without sending distributors broke. Johnny Depp here might bristle at this, but getting sales of 400 450MX Betas would be a bloody big ask.

Having more manufacturers, and not only badge engineering additions of the last few years, would improve the 'show'.
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JMX82
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8/26/2021 4:19am Edited Date/Time 8/26/2021 4:54am
I think homologation rule is more about keeping big motorcycle manufacturers cartel alive than cutting cost of racing nowadays.

For example with current technologies available it's relatively easy to manufacture chassis that looks similar to stock frame on the outside but material thickness could be thinner in less critical parts of the frame. Same goes with the engine cases etc... Those who have enough money and resources can easily bend the rules with out getting caught

Just look at the GP bikes. There's no production rule in GP's but European factory bikes are still quite similar compared to US factory bikes. The only difference is that there are bike's from smaller manufacturers like Beta, Fantic and TM competing against big players
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soggy
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8/26/2021 5:52am
Suzuki isn't spending millions. If other brands won't even race, what is the problem letting them in?
I don’t even know where to start. You are so stupid it’s actually amazing. you think the homologation rule is so there is enough bikes for all the pros which makes no sense on any level.
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Johnny Depp
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8/26/2021 9:13am Edited Date/Time 8/26/2021 9:58am
Suzuki isn't spending millions. If other brands won't even race, what is the problem letting them in?
soggy wrote:
I don’t even know where to start. You are so stupid it’s actually amazing. you think the homologation rule is so there is enough bikes for...
I don’t even know where to start. You are so stupid it’s actually amazing. you think the homologation rule is so there is enough bikes for all the pros which makes no sense on any level.
The required quantity of 400 production bikes is so that every pro could have one if they chose too. What are the chances of every rider riding the same brand in the same class? Zero. If the number was 50 for PRO racing, there would be nothing stopping them from building 500 or 5000 if they wanted to for retail.
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DonM
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Suzuki isn't spending millions. If other brands won't even race, what is the problem letting them in?
soggy wrote:
I don’t even know where to start. You are so stupid it’s actually amazing. you think the homologation rule is so there is enough bikes for...
I don’t even know where to start. You are so stupid it’s actually amazing. you think the homologation rule is so there is enough bikes for all the pros which makes no sense on any level.
The required quantity of 400 production bikes is so that every pro could have one if they chose too. What are the chances of every rider...
The required quantity of 400 production bikes is so that every pro could have one if they chose too. What are the chances of every rider riding the same brand in the same class? Zero. If the number was 50 for PRO racing, there would be nothing stopping them from building 500 or 5000 if they wanted to for retail.
Actually that is incorrect…The rule was put in place to keep the factories from building a batch of one off production bikes that would be just for their supported riders which at the time was quite a few. The 400 bikes had to be available for the public and actually sold on showroom floors…it wasn’t so every pro could have one.
In 2007 and 2011 Yamaha and Kawi had released their next years models early and by having over 400 units at or on the way to dealers floors they were able to apply for homologation for those models which allowed them to race the next years models.
If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders. It would actually make it harder for the “smaller teams” to compete and would probably keep newer brands from coming in because the cost of build just 50 more than quadruples the cost of entry….they need the dealer network and the sales of their product to make the cost of racing effective….
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NSP139
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8/26/2021 11:05am
soggy wrote:
I don’t even know where to start. You are so stupid it’s actually amazing. you think the homologation rule is so there is enough bikes for...
I don’t even know where to start. You are so stupid it’s actually amazing. you think the homologation rule is so there is enough bikes for all the pros which makes no sense on any level.
The required quantity of 400 production bikes is so that every pro could have one if they chose too. What are the chances of every rider...
The required quantity of 400 production bikes is so that every pro could have one if they chose too. What are the chances of every rider riding the same brand in the same class? Zero. If the number was 50 for PRO racing, there would be nothing stopping them from building 500 or 5000 if they wanted to for retail.
DonM wrote:
Actually that is incorrect…The rule was put in place to keep the factories from building a batch of one off production bikes that would be just...
Actually that is incorrect…The rule was put in place to keep the factories from building a batch of one off production bikes that would be just for their supported riders which at the time was quite a few. The 400 bikes had to be available for the public and actually sold on showroom floors…it wasn’t so every pro could have one.
In 2007 and 2011 Yamaha and Kawi had released their next years models early and by having over 400 units at or on the way to dealers floors they were able to apply for homologation for those models which allowed them to race the next years models.
If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders. It would actually make it harder for the “smaller teams” to compete and would probably keep newer brands from coming in because the cost of build just 50 more than quadruples the cost of entry….they need the dealer network and the sales of their product to make the cost of racing effective….
Thank you for trying to explain to him but I don't think he's going to get it or he doesn't want to lol
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DonM
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8/26/2021 11:28am
The required quantity of 400 production bikes is so that every pro could have one if they chose too. What are the chances of every rider...
The required quantity of 400 production bikes is so that every pro could have one if they chose too. What are the chances of every rider riding the same brand in the same class? Zero. If the number was 50 for PRO racing, there would be nothing stopping them from building 500 or 5000 if they wanted to for retail.
DonM wrote:
Actually that is incorrect…The rule was put in place to keep the factories from building a batch of one off production bikes that would be just...
Actually that is incorrect…The rule was put in place to keep the factories from building a batch of one off production bikes that would be just for their supported riders which at the time was quite a few. The 400 bikes had to be available for the public and actually sold on showroom floors…it wasn’t so every pro could have one.
In 2007 and 2011 Yamaha and Kawi had released their next years models early and by having over 400 units at or on the way to dealers floors they were able to apply for homologation for those models which allowed them to race the next years models.
If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders. It would actually make it harder for the “smaller teams” to compete and would probably keep newer brands from coming in because the cost of build just 50 more than quadruples the cost of entry….they need the dealer network and the sales of their product to make the cost of racing effective….
NSP139 wrote:
Thank you for trying to explain to him but I don't think he's going to get it or he doesn't want to lol
How can we expect him to understand it when he can’t even spell it…
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Johnny Depp
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8/26/2021 11:28am Edited Date/Time 8/26/2021 11:33am
Don M. said:

"If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders"

One-off < 50.

(c) After June 1, manufacturers must maintain availability of models homologated for the current season to any AMA Pro-licensed motocross competitor until August 1 of the current season.

(d) The manufacturer can only get away with not selling a production bike to an AMA Pro-licensed rider by supplying documented proof to the AMA that all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.

(5) The bikes used by the race team are counted as part of the required 400 bikes, but the race team bikes cannot exceed 8 of the 400 units. After the 8 bikes are counted, the manufacturer must make more than 400 bikes for the race team to get access to extra bikes.


https://www.mxa-digital.com/motocrossaction/april_2018/MobilePagedArtic…

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DonM
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8/26/2021 11:45am Edited Date/Time 8/26/2021 12:35pm
Don M. said: "If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders" One-off < 50...
Don M. said:

"If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders"

One-off < 50.

(c) After June 1, manufacturers must maintain availability of models homologated for the current season to any AMA Pro-licensed motocross competitor until August 1 of the current season.

(d) The manufacturer can only get away with not selling a production bike to an AMA Pro-licensed rider by supplying documented proof to the AMA that all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.

(5) The bikes used by the race team are counted as part of the required 400 bikes, but the race team bikes cannot exceed 8 of the 400 units. After the 8 bikes are counted, the manufacturer must make more than 400 bikes for the race team to get access to extra bikes.


https://www.mxa-digital.com/motocrossaction/april_2018/MobilePagedArtic…

Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The rule in place is not to supply pro riders as you have falsely stated…its to keep the factories from racing motorcycles that are different than what is available to the public…
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DonM
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8/26/2021 11:51am
Don M. said: "If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders" One-off < 50...
Don M. said:

"If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders"

One-off < 50.

(c) After June 1, manufacturers must maintain availability of models homologated for the current season to any AMA Pro-licensed motocross competitor until August 1 of the current season.

(d) The manufacturer can only get away with not selling a production bike to an AMA Pro-licensed rider by supplying documented proof to the AMA that all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.

(5) The bikes used by the race team are counted as part of the required 400 bikes, but the race team bikes cannot exceed 8 of the 400 units. After the 8 bikes are counted, the manufacturer must make more than 400 bikes for the race team to get access to extra bikes.


https://www.mxa-digital.com/motocrossaction/april_2018/MobilePagedArtic…

Thanks is for showing you were wrong…don’t see anywhere that is says they are for pro riders….
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soggy
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8/26/2021 12:00pm
Johnny Ringo showing us how bad critical thinking skills have gotten among many of us.
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Johnny Depp
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8/26/2021 12:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2021 12:29pm
DonM wrote:
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The...
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The rule in place is not to supply pro riders as you have falsely stated…its to keep the factories from racing motorcycles that are different than what is available to the public…


What part of Pro Racing Rules do you not get? There is nothing stating they must provide them to the general public, BUT MUST PROVIDE THEM TO PRO LICENSE HOLDERS.
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DonM
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8/26/2021 12:32pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2021 12:36pm
DonM wrote:
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The...
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The rule in place is not to supply pro riders as you have falsely stated…its to keep the factories from racing motorcycles that are different than what is available to the public…
What part of Pro Racing Rules do you not get? There is nothing stating they must provide them to the general public, BUT MUST PROVIDE THEM...


What part of Pro Racing Rules do you not get? There is nothing stating they must provide them to the general public, BUT MUST PROVIDE THEM TO PRO LICENSE HOLDERS.
“all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.”
Quoted from your own copy and paste of the rule….400 North American customers sure sounds like the general public to me…

(4) A minimum of 400 machines must be available through U.S. dealers.

(a) A minimum of 200 units must be in the country by March 1 of the current season.

(b) The remaining 200 units must be available by June 1 of the current season.

The parts you didn’t include….
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LungButter
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8/26/2021 12:32pm
What part of Pro Racing Rules do you not get? There is nothing stating they must provide them to the general public, BUT MUST PROVIDE THEM...


What part of Pro Racing Rules do you not get? There is nothing stating they must provide them to the general public, BUT MUST PROVIDE THEM TO PRO LICENSE HOLDERS.
Dude..... what?

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JMX82
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8/26/2021 12:43pm
Don M. said: "If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders" One-off < 50...
Don M. said:

"If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders"

One-off < 50.

(c) After June 1, manufacturers must maintain availability of models homologated for the current season to any AMA Pro-licensed motocross competitor until August 1 of the current season.

(d) The manufacturer can only get away with not selling a production bike to an AMA Pro-licensed rider by supplying documented proof to the AMA that all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.

(5) The bikes used by the race team are counted as part of the required 400 bikes, but the race team bikes cannot exceed 8 of the 400 units. After the 8 bikes are counted, the manufacturer must make more than 400 bikes for the race team to get access to extra bikes.


https://www.mxa-digital.com/motocrossaction/april_2018/MobilePagedArtic…

DonM wrote:
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The...
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The rule in place is not to supply pro riders as you have falsely stated…its to keep the factories from racing motorcycles that are different than what is available to the public…
It's really naive to think that you can buy the same bike from the local dealer that Ferrandis, Roczen, Tomac or Webb are racing
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DonM
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8/26/2021 12:44pm
Don M. said: "If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders" One-off < 50...
Don M. said:

"If the number was 50 nothing would stop the factories from building practically one off factory bikes for their riders"

One-off < 50.

(c) After June 1, manufacturers must maintain availability of models homologated for the current season to any AMA Pro-licensed motocross competitor until August 1 of the current season.

(d) The manufacturer can only get away with not selling a production bike to an AMA Pro-licensed rider by supplying documented proof to the AMA that all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.

(5) The bikes used by the race team are counted as part of the required 400 bikes, but the race team bikes cannot exceed 8 of the 400 units. After the 8 bikes are counted, the manufacturer must make more than 400 bikes for the race team to get access to extra bikes.


https://www.mxa-digital.com/motocrossaction/april_2018/MobilePagedArtic…

DonM wrote:
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The...
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The rule in place is not to supply pro riders as you have falsely stated…its to keep the factories from racing motorcycles that are different than what is available to the public…
JMX82 wrote:
It's really naive to think that you can buy the same bike from the local dealer that Ferrandis, Roczen, Tomac or Webb are racing
That’s not the point….
Johnny Depp
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8/26/2021 12:50pm
DonM wrote:
“all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.” Quoted from your own copy and paste of the rule….400...
“all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.”
Quoted from your own copy and paste of the rule….400 North American customers sure sounds like the general public to me…

(4) A minimum of 400 machines must be available through U.S. dealers.

(a) A minimum of 200 units must be in the country by March 1 of the current season.

(b) The remaining 200 units must be available by June 1 of the current season.

The parts you didn’t include….
Can sell to the public, MUST sell to Pro riders. They could build 4000 if they want. But if they DON'T provide 1 to a pro license holder, they MUST PROVE THAT THEY RETAILED 392 OF THEM.
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JMX82
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8/26/2021 12:56pm
DonM wrote:
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The...
Seriously? Man you sure are a piece of work…50 bikes that would be used for their team that very few would get a chance to ride…The rule in place is not to supply pro riders as you have falsely stated…its to keep the factories from racing motorcycles that are different than what is available to the public…
JMX82 wrote:
It's really naive to think that you can buy the same bike from the local dealer that Ferrandis, Roczen, Tomac or Webb are racing
DonM wrote:
That’s not the point….
What's the point of having production rule when factory bikes are only resembling production bikes?
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DonM
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8/26/2021 1:04pm
DonM wrote:
“all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.” Quoted from your own copy and paste of the rule….400...
“all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.”
Quoted from your own copy and paste of the rule….400 North American customers sure sounds like the general public to me…

(4) A minimum of 400 machines must be available through U.S. dealers.

(a) A minimum of 200 units must be in the country by March 1 of the current season.

(b) The remaining 200 units must be available by June 1 of the current season.

The parts you didn’t include….
Can sell to the public, MUST sell to Pro riders. They could build 4000 if they want. But if they DON'T provide 1 to a pro...
Can sell to the public, MUST sell to Pro riders. They could build 4000 if they want. But if they DON'T provide 1 to a pro license holder, they MUST PROVE THAT THEY RETAILED 392 OF THEM.
(4) A minimum of 400 machines must be available through U.S. dealers.
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LungButter
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8/26/2021 1:39pm
Johnny, you gotta come to reality bro. The bottom line is, if the Beta was as good in real life as it is in your head....they wouldn't have an issue selling 400 of them and you wouldn't be worried about the homologation rule....

Tongue
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DonM
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8/26/2021 1:51pm
LungButter wrote:
Johnny, you gotta come to reality bro. The bottom line is, if the Beta was as good in real life as it is in your head....they...
Johnny, you gotta come to reality bro. The bottom line is, if the Beta was as good in real life as it is in your head....they wouldn't have an issue selling 400 of them and you wouldn't be worried about the homologation rule....

Tongue
He’s too busy trying to find proof that the CDC is not a government agency now….
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Johnny Depp
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8/26/2021 2:19pm
DonM wrote:
“all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.” Quoted from your own copy and paste of the rule….400...
“all 400 units were sold to North American customers before June 1 of the current season.”
Quoted from your own copy and paste of the rule….400 North American customers sure sounds like the general public to me…

(4) A minimum of 400 machines must be available through U.S. dealers.

(a) A minimum of 200 units must be in the country by March 1 of the current season.

(b) The remaining 200 units must be available by June 1 of the current season.

The parts you didn’t include….
Can sell to the public, MUST sell to Pro riders. They could build 4000 if they want. But if they DON'T provide 1 to a pro...
Can sell to the public, MUST sell to Pro riders. They could build 4000 if they want. But if they DON'T provide 1 to a pro license holder, they MUST PROVE THAT THEY RETAILED 392 OF THEM.
DonM wrote:
(4) A minimum of 400 machines must be available through U.S. dealers.
Maybe you think pro's all buy their bikes out of the back of the warehouse?
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Johnny Depp
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Buda, TX, USA
8/26/2021 2:21pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2021 2:43pm
DonM wrote:
He’s too busy trying to find proof that the CDC is not a government agency now….
You made some really nice posts over "there". There may be hope for you yet.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programing.
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