Oil filter debris after motor rebuild (update..again)

Brent809
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Brent809
Edited Date/Time 7/12/2021 6:55pm
Hey guys. Back again with another question.

Just had a complete motor rebuild, top end and most of the bottom end. When I got it back. I did about 15 minutes and a valve dropped. Brought it back to the guy and he redid the valves.

I then went out for a night of easy riding. About 20 minutes. All with the same oil filter. I took it out for the first time since and is this too much debris for a break in? Or should I be concerned ?
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LKHill
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LKHill 7/3/2021 4:35am
7/3/2021 4:35am
Looks normal to me. You should be GTG.
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willbilly
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willbilly 7/3/2021 4:43pm
7/3/2021 4:43pm
Does not look normal to me. Are the particles ferrous/magnetic or aluminum? What bike and year?
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Brent809
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Brent809 7/3/2021 8:16pm
7/3/2021 8:16pm
willbilly wrote:
Does not look normal to me. Are the particles ferrous/magnetic or aluminum? What bike and year?
It is. 2018 CRC250R.

It’s hard to tell, it’s super fine, small material. Some of the shiny fine material seems magnetic.

Mechanic who rebuilt it did not soak the brand new clutch plates when he put them in.. wondering if it might have something to do with that.
GaryC1
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GaryC1 7/4/2021 5:26am
7/4/2021 5:26am
Brent809 wrote:
It is. 2018 CRC250R. It’s hard to tell, it’s super fine, small material. Some of the shiny fine material seems magnetic. Mechanic who rebuilt it did...
It is. 2018 CRC250R.

It’s hard to tell, it’s super fine, small material. Some of the shiny fine material seems magnetic.

Mechanic who rebuilt it did not soak the brand new clutch plates when he put them in.. wondering if it might have something to do with that.
Man it worries me that someone who did that amount of worl to your bike also forgot to soak clutch plates before installing them, I would be less than confident that everything else has been installed correctly especially if it dropped a valve. If i was you, I'd find a properly reputable mechanic to pull the engine and check all the work previously done or educate yourself and work through it slowly and learn a few things on the journey.
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cdncombatmedic 7/4/2021 6:44am
7/4/2021 6:44am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2021 6:45am
willbilly wrote:
Does not look normal to me. Are the particles ferrous/magnetic or aluminum? What bike and year?
Brent809 wrote:
It is. 2018 CRC250R. It’s hard to tell, it’s super fine, small material. Some of the shiny fine material seems magnetic. Mechanic who rebuilt it did...
It is. 2018 CRC250R.

It’s hard to tell, it’s super fine, small material. Some of the shiny fine material seems magnetic.

Mechanic who rebuilt it did not soak the brand new clutch plates when he put them in.. wondering if it might have something to do with that.
A mechanic I would trust to rebuild a 4 stroke would never "forget" to soak clutch plates. How do you rebuild most of the bottom end. You either rebuild it fully or not. I wouldn't trust that engine. Take it to someone that knows what they are doing before you are left with a rolling frame.
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Brent809
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Brent809 7/4/2021 6:47am
7/4/2021 6:47am
What’s wild is he didn’t ‘forget’. The first question I asked when I picked it up was ‘did you soak the plates’ and immediately he said that was a myth.

And this guy is a very reputable mechanic around here and has lots of experience with teams.
cdncombatmedic 7/4/2021 6:51am
7/4/2021 6:51am Edited Date/Time 7/4/2021 6:52am
Brent809 wrote:
What’s wild is he didn’t ‘forget’. The first question I asked when I picked it up was ‘did you soak the plates’ and immediately he said...
What’s wild is he didn’t ‘forget’. The first question I asked when I picked it up was ‘did you soak the plates’ and immediately he said that was a myth.

And this guy is a very reputable mechanic around here and has lots of experience with teams.
Not buying any of it. I'm not surprised you are having continued problems.
Moto520
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Moto520 7/4/2021 1:05pm
7/4/2021 1:05pm
I’ve heard soaking clutch plates is not needed as well. I just dip them in oil and have never had an issue.
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willbilly
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willbilly 7/4/2021 4:33pm
7/4/2021 4:33pm
Not soaking clutch plates did not cause that much metal. Get a magnet on those particles. If they are aluminum, non-magnetic, that would narrow things down.
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PNWRider
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PNWRider 7/4/2021 8:21pm
7/4/2021 8:21pm
Regardless of his reputation, that guy wouldn’t be allowed to fix my lawnmower, let alone my bike. Sounds like a hack.
LKHill
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LKHill 7/6/2021 5:08am
7/6/2021 5:08am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2021 5:15am
After you tear your engine apart because all the vitard geniuses say its not normal come back and tell us what you find. I got $20 that says it was nothing. Any takers?

I agree the original rebuild should have checked the valves. Not sure how you drop a valve unless the rebuild was not done properly.
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Moto520
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Moto520 7/6/2021 8:49am
7/6/2021 8:49am
i see nothing that would cause me to start replacing shit.
Brent809
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Brent809 7/6/2021 9:51am
7/6/2021 9:51am
Update - i replaced oil filter and oil and went out and did about an hour of solid riding on track. In 15-20 minute sessions.

Came home and pulled this out. Looks better. A lot less debris. Not sure what to make of it. Good sign ?

I appreciate everyone’s input. Helps a lot.

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FGR01
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FGR01 7/6/2021 2:51pm
7/6/2021 2:51pm
Those gold colored specs in the recent photos look like copper or brass to me. Which means con rod big end thrust washers or wrist pin plain bearing. Can you confirm there are gold colored flecks in that top photo?
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Brent809
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Brent809 7/6/2021 3:13pm
7/6/2021 3:13pm
FGR01 wrote:
Those gold colored specs in the recent photos look like copper or brass to me. Which means con rod big end thrust washers or wrist pin...
Those gold colored specs in the recent photos look like copper or brass to me. Which means con rod big end thrust washers or wrist pin plain bearing. Can you confirm there are gold colored flecks in that top photo?
In the most recent pics it’s silver coloured specs
40acres
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40acres 7/6/2021 10:37pm
7/6/2021 10:37pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2021 10:37pm
FGR01 wrote:
Those gold colored specs in the recent photos look like copper or brass to me. Which means con rod big end thrust washers or wrist pin...
Those gold colored specs in the recent photos look like copper or brass to me. Which means con rod big end thrust washers or wrist pin plain bearing. Can you confirm there are gold colored flecks in that top photo?
Brent809 wrote:
In the most recent pics it’s silver coloured specs
He's referring to your first photo, in which I also see what resembles fragments of brass/copper.
LKHill
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LKHill 7/7/2021 12:09am
7/7/2021 12:09am
40acres wrote:
He's referring to your first photo, in which I also see what resembles fragments of brass/copper.
How could you possibly think he is referring to the first photo when he specifically says he is not? Dizzy
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llaliberte22 7/7/2021 3:01am
7/7/2021 3:01am
Regarding not soaking the clutch plate...

In this AC vlog from high pojnt, at about 13:10, is mechanic is replacing the clutch plate and he is putting the new plate in bone dry. Look at the plastic bag and his glove, no oil there.

Not saying it's a great thing for longevity especially, but I would trust him to wrench on my bike. I think the guys know what he's doing.

Btw, I would never personally not soak them.
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MKMX
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MKMX 7/7/2021 3:56am
7/7/2021 3:56am
llaliberte22 wrote:
Regarding not soaking the clutch plate... In this [url=https://youtu.be/PaIua52AkmY]AC vlog from high pojnt[/url], at about 13:10, is mechanic is replacing the clutch plate and he is...
Regarding not soaking the clutch plate...

In this AC vlog from high pojnt, at about 13:10, is mechanic is replacing the clutch plate and he is putting the new plate in bone dry. Look at the plastic bag and his glove, no oil there.

Not saying it's a great thing for longevity especially, but I would trust him to wrench on my bike. I think the guys know what he's doing.

Btw, I would never personally not soak them.
I did notice this too and it’s not the first time I’ve seen it in VLogs… interesting.
FGR01
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FGR01 7/7/2021 10:17am
7/7/2021 10:17am
Let me clear this up. I am referring to this right here. This debris looks gold/copper colored to me and I would be concerned about this and would be opening the engine to investigate.

Also, not soaking the plates is not a huge deal. Upon first start up, hold the clutch in and let oil circulate through the plates as the bike warms up. I doubt there'd be any significant difference in performance or longevity of the plates.


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27thmx
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27thmx 7/8/2021 8:56am
7/8/2021 8:56am
Not a good sign I would say. If it is brass or copper it means crankshaft. Hard to tell in pics. These motors are so well engineered there should never be hardly any shaving if everything is working correctly
Brent809
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Brent809 7/8/2021 11:06am
7/8/2021 11:06am
Ugh - I just put in a new crank as advised by the engine builder - what about a new crank could be doing that? Installed incorrectly?
llaliberte22 7/8/2021 2:58pm
7/8/2021 2:58pm
Brent809 wrote:
Ugh - I just put in a new crank as advised by the engine builder - what about a new crank could be doing that? Installed...
Ugh - I just put in a new crank as advised by the engine builder - what about a new crank could be doing that? Installed incorrectly?
What brand did he put in? OEM? Hot rod? If the answer is hot rod, look no further. They are shit.

They often arrive unbalanced, I received one myself and had to sent it back. Usually it's pretty easy to catch when rebuilding the engine but maybe it it flew under the builder's radar
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Brent809
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Brent809 7/8/2021 3:13pm
7/8/2021 3:13pm
Brent809 wrote:
Ugh - I just put in a new crank as advised by the engine builder - what about a new crank could be doing that? Installed...
Ugh - I just put in a new crank as advised by the engine builder - what about a new crank could be doing that? Installed incorrectly?
llaliberte22 wrote:
What brand did he put in? OEM? Hot rod? If the answer is hot rod, look no further. They are shit. They often arrive unbalanced, I...
What brand did he put in? OEM? Hot rod? If the answer is hot rod, look no further. They are shit.

They often arrive unbalanced, I received one myself and had to sent it back. Usually it's pretty easy to catch when rebuilding the engine but maybe it it flew under the builder's radar
It’s OEM. Everything I put in was OEM
walent215
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walent215 7/8/2021 6:01pm
7/8/2021 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/8/2021 6:03pm
Even after a full rebuild I’ve seen a few brass remnants show up in the oil filter. Those flakes find their way in all sorts of places ... getting every last one out isn’t happening .
If you’ve got a newly rebuilt motor with about an hour on it and it’s running fine I would not be worrying about it.
What type of riding are you doing ?
Skill level ? Total hours on bike ?
Pics of bike and internal parts removed during rebuild?
Brent809
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Brent809 7/8/2021 6:22pm
7/8/2021 6:22pm
walent215 wrote:
Even after a full rebuild I’ve seen a few brass remnants show up in the oil filter. Those flakes find their way in all sorts of...
Even after a full rebuild I’ve seen a few brass remnants show up in the oil filter. Those flakes find their way in all sorts of places ... getting every last one out isn’t happening .
If you’ve got a newly rebuilt motor with about an hour on it and it’s running fine I would not be worrying about it.
What type of riding are you doing ?
Skill level ? Total hours on bike ?
Pics of bike and internal parts removed during rebuild?
Track riding. Usually four 20 minute sessions. B level (int in Canada)
Total hours approx 40. No pics of internal during rebuild.
walent215
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walent215 7/8/2021 7:03pm
7/8/2021 7:03pm
walent215 wrote:
Even after a full rebuild I’ve seen a few brass remnants show up in the oil filter. Those flakes find their way in all sorts of...
Even after a full rebuild I’ve seen a few brass remnants show up in the oil filter. Those flakes find their way in all sorts of places ... getting every last one out isn’t happening .
If you’ve got a newly rebuilt motor with about an hour on it and it’s running fine I would not be worrying about it.
What type of riding are you doing ?
Skill level ? Total hours on bike ?
Pics of bike and internal parts removed during rebuild?
Brent809 wrote:
Track riding. Usually four 20 minute sessions. B level (int in Canada)
Total hours approx 40. No pics of internal during rebuild.
Ride it
Put an hour meter on it and dump oil every 3-5 hours - use full syn and replace filter every other change
Put another 40 hours and pull down for new piston
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Brent809
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Brent809 7/12/2021 6:53pm
7/12/2021 6:53pm
walent215 wrote:
Ride it Put an hour meter on it and dump oil every 3-5 hours - use full syn and replace filter every other change Put another...
Ride it
Put an hour meter on it and dump oil every 3-5 hours - use full syn and replace filter every other change
Put another 40 hours and pull down for new piston
Ok, did about another hour of decent track riding. This is what just came out of it.

Thoughts ? Am I now just overthinking?

walent215
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walent215 7/12/2021 7:22pm
7/12/2021 7:22pm
I personally wouldn’t be worried about that amount of metal myself.... I’ve seen worse come out of bikes that were taken well care of and not abused. If my reading comprehension is on you’ve put 2 hours on this bike at b level moto speed ? If that’s accurate any issue would have surfaced by now ....
Ride it !!
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Moto520
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Moto520 7/13/2021 7:46am
7/13/2021 7:46am
Dude.....i think you are overthinking this. If i took my oil filters apart like you are doing.....it would probably drive me nuts! I would run it and be confident that everything is fine.
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