2 strokes could rule again! The ghost from the past...

miedosoracing1
Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 1:51pm
I know, but had to start with a topic header that would get everyone's eye rolls first.

Anyhooow.

If AMA could alter the rules for this one change, manufactures of 2 strokes could remain within the same cc 1 cylinder rules. Allow 2 pistons. 1 cylinder and 2 pistons facing eachother. You'd have clean fuel mixtures due to the need of direct injection. Shorter strokes for higher rpm, and keeping within cc rule. Double the fuel air intake. The 2 pistons would face eachother, coming together at top dead center. Pull away from eachother and suck in huge amounts of air. Thus, still 125cc and 250cc 2 strokes via cylinder and stroke. As long as cylinder bore is the measurement, not pistons.

That's my idea-
Carry on.
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 2/14/2021 8:00am
2/14/2021 8:00am
See, this is why I love vital...
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soggy
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soggy 2/14/2021 8:03am
2/14/2021 8:03am
I’m dizzy
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#434
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#434 2/14/2021 8:05am
2/14/2021 8:05am
The opposed-piston engine was patented in 1877 by a guy called Ferdinand Kindermann..
other than that, great idea bro!
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Boomslang 2/14/2021 8:14am
2/14/2021 8:14am
And them bike will wear you out before the half way point of the race...
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miedosoracing1 2/14/2021 8:20am
2/14/2021 8:20am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 8:23am
#434 wrote:
The opposed-piston engine was patented in 1877 by a guy called Ferdinand Kindermann..
other than that, great idea bro!
Yes, diesels are currently using the tech. Not new. Just not used in mx. Thus, the only way 2 strokes at current cc rules could compete. Because, as we've seen, even upping cc's for 2 strokes to 150 and 300 in Pro ranks can't even get approved. So abiding by the rules, this is the way.
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Alan Dove
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Alan Dove 2/14/2021 8:31am
2/14/2021 8:31am
How about 250 twin. Tuned up these are hitting over 100hp in superkarts


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soggy
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soggy 2/14/2021 8:44am
2/14/2021 8:44am
#434 wrote:
The opposed-piston engine was patented in 1877 by a guy called Ferdinand Kindermann..
other than that, great idea bro!
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Yes, diesels are currently using the tech. Not new. Just not used in mx. Thus, the only way 2 strokes at current cc rules could compete...
Yes, diesels are currently using the tech. Not new. Just not used in mx. Thus, the only way 2 strokes at current cc rules could compete. Because, as we've seen, even upping cc's for 2 strokes to 150 and 300 in Pro ranks can't even get approved. So abiding by the rules, this is the way.
You are trying to solve a problem to a question that anyone that matters isn’t asking. The OEM’s don’t want to race two strokes so the rules are never going to change and the oem’s aren’t going to design the motor you are taking about
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Alan Dove
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Alan Dove 2/14/2021 8:48am
2/14/2021 8:48am
#434 wrote:
The opposed-piston engine was patented in 1877 by a guy called Ferdinand Kindermann..
other than that, great idea bro!
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Yes, diesels are currently using the tech. Not new. Just not used in mx. Thus, the only way 2 strokes at current cc rules could compete...
Yes, diesels are currently using the tech. Not new. Just not used in mx. Thus, the only way 2 strokes at current cc rules could compete. Because, as we've seen, even upping cc's for 2 strokes to 150 and 300 in Pro ranks can't even get approved. So abiding by the rules, this is the way.
soggy wrote:
You are trying to solve a problem to a question that anyone that matters isn’t asking. The OEM’s don’t want to race two strokes so the...
You are trying to solve a problem to a question that anyone that matters isn’t asking. The OEM’s don’t want to race two strokes so the rules are never going to change and the oem’s aren’t going to design the motor you are taking about
Tell the OEMs to f*ck off and bring in Vortex, TM, IAME, BRP, Vortex, VM, Modena etc...
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Suicidal_Tendencies 2/14/2021 8:58am
2/14/2021 8:58am
2 strokes aren't going to happen. If anything, the next big change will be electric bikes.
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miedosoracing1 2/14/2021 9:04am
2/14/2021 9:04am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 9:05am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Yes, diesels are currently using the tech. Not new. Just not used in mx. Thus, the only way 2 strokes at current cc rules could compete...
Yes, diesels are currently using the tech. Not new. Just not used in mx. Thus, the only way 2 strokes at current cc rules could compete. Because, as we've seen, even upping cc's for 2 strokes to 150 and 300 in Pro ranks can't even get approved. So abiding by the rules, this is the way.
soggy wrote:
You are trying to solve a problem to a question that anyone that matters isn’t asking. The OEM’s don’t want to race two strokes so the...
You are trying to solve a problem to a question that anyone that matters isn’t asking. The OEM’s don’t want to race two strokes so the rules are never going to change and the oem’s aren’t going to design the motor you are taking about
Alan Dove wrote:
Tell the OEMs to f*ck off and bring in Vortex, TM, IAME, BRP, Vortex, VM, Modena etc...
OEM's have always followed the sales trend. If a 2 stroke somehow beat every 4 stroke, they would do 1 of 2 things. Try to kill it by rules, or jump on the train for $. Electric, will be the future. I have no doubt about it. But we have a long ways to go for that, it seems. I wouldn't mind one, for city area riding. Anyways, a OEM like TM that hasn't made the splash yet, would probably need to be the first. Look at KTM, and how I was told for years, KTM will never be a Honda, as far as #'s. Never say never.
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musrat88
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musrat88 2/14/2021 9:18am
2/14/2021 9:18am
Only thing 2 strokes are good for are chain-saws and trimmers.
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soggy
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soggy 2/14/2021 9:19am
2/14/2021 9:19am
Alan Dove wrote:
Tell the OEMs to f*ck off and bring in Vortex, TM, IAME, BRP, Vortex, VM, Modena etc...
Ok say good bye to pro racing then.
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miedosoracing1 2/14/2021 9:30am
2/14/2021 9:30am
musrat88 wrote:
Only thing 2 strokes are good for are chain-saws and trimmers.
Because they're lighter, more powerful and kill the 4 stroke. Everyone and their brother knows the 2 stroke will always out perform a 4 stroke of same cc's. Exactly why rules have remained unfair for so long. Even now, with all the "tech" 4 strokes have gone through, they couldn't fathom adjusting cc for cc rules.
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ShawdowGlen
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ShawdowGlen 2/14/2021 9:42am
2/14/2021 9:42am
Long live the BRAAAAAPPP!!!!

and kickstarters!

Technology sucks.

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mulletman
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mulletman 2/14/2021 9:46am
2/14/2021 9:46am
Not sure you could even fit an opposed engine in a Dirtbike frame. There you goes your argument for easy and cheap to work on. 2 pistons, 2 rods, 2 crankshafts......
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miedosoracing1 2/14/2021 9:53am
2/14/2021 9:53am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2021 9:57am
mulletman wrote:
Not sure you could even fit an opposed engine in a Dirtbike frame. There you goes your argument for easy and cheap to work on. 2...
Not sure you could even fit an opposed engine in a Dirtbike frame. There you goes your argument for easy and cheap to work on. 2 pistons, 2 rods, 2 crankshafts......
Because 4 strokes with valves, etc have made room. That's definitely not a argument killer. I'm not an engine maker, so I'm sure if a maker wanted to make it work, they'd find a way. It would be a shorter stroke on each side. To make the cc rule, it would most likely require a shorter stroke and smaller pistons compared to an equal cc normal motor. Heck, it's a gear driven setup, so who's to say the cylinder would have to face up and down? Just sayin, there are a million possibilities. Also, it's still a 2 stroke, so you could still make it easy to work on. One cylinder, and the top crank and rod would be super accessible possibly. The argument is more about, ProAma allowing the technology, as long as the cc rule is met. No one is really even mentioning that part of it.
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soggy
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soggy 2/14/2021 9:55am
2/14/2021 9:55am
mulletman wrote:
Not sure you could even fit an opposed engine in a Dirtbike frame. There you goes your argument for easy and cheap to work on. 2...
Not sure you could even fit an opposed engine in a Dirtbike frame. There you goes your argument for easy and cheap to work on. 2 pistons, 2 rods, 2 crankshafts......
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Because 4 strokes with valves, etc have made room. That's definitely not a argument killer. I'm not an engine maker, so I'm sure if a maker...
Because 4 strokes with valves, etc have made room. That's definitely not a argument killer. I'm not an engine maker, so I'm sure if a maker wanted to make it work, they'd find a way. It would be a shorter stroke on each side. To make the cc rule, it would most likely require a shorter stroke and smaller pistons compared to an equal cc normal motor. Heck, it's a gear driven setup, so who's to say the cylinder would have to face up and down? Just sayin, there are a million possibilities. Also, it's still a 2 stroke, so you could still make it easy to work on. One cylinder, and the top crank and rod would be super accessible possibly. The argument is more about, ProAma allowing the technology, as long as the cc rule is met. No one is really even mentioning that part of it.
There is no argument cause no one wants to do what you are talking about
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miedosoracing1 2/14/2021 10:01am
2/14/2021 10:01am
mulletman wrote:
Not sure you could even fit an opposed engine in a Dirtbike frame. There you goes your argument for easy and cheap to work on. 2...
Not sure you could even fit an opposed engine in a Dirtbike frame. There you goes your argument for easy and cheap to work on. 2 pistons, 2 rods, 2 crankshafts......
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Because 4 strokes with valves, etc have made room. That's definitely not a argument killer. I'm not an engine maker, so I'm sure if a maker...
Because 4 strokes with valves, etc have made room. That's definitely not a argument killer. I'm not an engine maker, so I'm sure if a maker wanted to make it work, they'd find a way. It would be a shorter stroke on each side. To make the cc rule, it would most likely require a shorter stroke and smaller pistons compared to an equal cc normal motor. Heck, it's a gear driven setup, so who's to say the cylinder would have to face up and down? Just sayin, there are a million possibilities. Also, it's still a 2 stroke, so you could still make it easy to work on. One cylinder, and the top crank and rod would be super accessible possibly. The argument is more about, ProAma allowing the technology, as long as the cc rule is met. No one is really even mentioning that part of it.
soggy wrote:
There is no argument cause no one wants to do what you are talking about
They said that same thing about racing 4 strokes in mx, when Lance"?" Rode one in a race. If the rules allowed it, and it performed, I guarantee bikes would be made with it.
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mulletman
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mulletman 2/14/2021 11:30am
2/14/2021 11:30am
You convinced me. I think you should build one now.
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soggy
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soggy 2/14/2021 11:48am
2/14/2021 11:48am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
They said that same thing about racing 4 strokes in mx, when Lance"?" Rode one in a race. If the rules allowed it, and it performed...
They said that same thing about racing 4 strokes in mx, when Lance"?" Rode one in a race. If the rules allowed it, and it performed, I guarantee bikes would be made with it.
No because at that time the OEM’s wanted to develop 4 strokes. No one wants to develop whatever it is you are talking about.
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ti473
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ti473 2/14/2021 11:51am
2/14/2021 11:51am
For some reason i picture OP looking exactly like Carl
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miedosoracing1 2/14/2021 1:14pm
2/14/2021 1:14pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
They said that same thing about racing 4 strokes in mx, when Lance"?" Rode one in a race. If the rules allowed it, and it performed...
They said that same thing about racing 4 strokes in mx, when Lance"?" Rode one in a race. If the rules allowed it, and it performed, I guarantee bikes would be made with it.
soggy wrote:
No because at that time the OEM’s wanted to develop 4 strokes. No one wants to develop whatever it is you are talking about.
In 1996-97, they were not. You have no clue on history obviously.
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soggy
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soggy 2/14/2021 1:41pm
2/14/2021 1:41pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
They said that same thing about racing 4 strokes in mx, when Lance"?" Rode one in a race. If the rules allowed it, and it performed...
They said that same thing about racing 4 strokes in mx, when Lance"?" Rode one in a race. If the rules allowed it, and it performed, I guarantee bikes would be made with it.
soggy wrote:
No because at that time the OEM’s wanted to develop 4 strokes. No one wants to develop whatever it is you are talking about.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
In 1996-97, they were not. You have no clue on history obviously.
Yamaha was, Honda never wanted to make two strokes to begin with. Ktm was developing 4 strokes for a long time as well
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Shawn142
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Shawn142 2/14/2021 1:51pm
2/14/2021 1:51pm
4-strokes are what Japanese OEMs want to make. Their weed eaters are 4 stroke, their lawn mowers are 4 stroke, their generators are 4 stroke, their consumer vehicles are 4 stroke, and their freaking race cars are 4 stroke. The move to bring the MX sector in line with that was strategic. If you want a 2 stroke buy a KTM or the Yamaha that hasn't been developed further in 20 years. The AMA and pro racing left you in the dust 25 years ago, it's obviously time you let go of them too.
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Hoseclamp
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Hoseclamp 2/14/2021 3:08pm
2/14/2021 3:08pm
I love 2 strokes as much as anybody, but that design would turn a light flickable dirtbike into an ill handling turd. I think the motor would be as wide as your pegs at least.

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