Fastest pre75 250 Engine

Edited Date/Time 2/24/2021 5:26am
hi i want to build another race bike grasstrack same as flat track i use to run a 74 KX250 with great sucsess but want a change and fancy a cr250 or yz 250 both 1974 or what is the mx250 like all im after is the fastest one HP wise i will be modifying it to the max but want the best to start off with
many thanks for any veiws or other engine idears
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FreshTopEnd
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1/9/2021 10:50am
You might try to find a Bultaco Astro engine
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CDswinehart
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1/9/2021 1:34pm
I would second the Astro idea.
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1/9/2021 2:03pm
I would second the Astro idea.
taco are good but not sure they would take the power im going to give them i thought they was a bit fragile inthe 70s and would the clutch take 45-50hp
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Todd D
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1/9/2021 4:40pm
Ossa phantom
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The Shop

1/10/2021 1:14pm
Many thanks all made my mind up and brought a can-am mx2 engine will work out the most expensive but should put out a lot more power god help me
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speedman
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1/10/2021 3:41pm
I was gonna vote for the Rotax. Too bad Can-Am didn't sell more of them, but IIRC, a magazine put a Skyway pipe on a 1975 model and it made almost 35hp on a dyno that showed other 1975 models around 27-29.
1/11/2021 5:21pm
I too thought Can-Am Rotax but am late to the party...BUT having listened to an interview with Gary Jones I have the following helpful suggestion: Do some heavy work on it and make it dual induction by adding another inlet/carb at the rear of the cylinder. Gary said that the 250 they did this to was open class fast and unfortunately scared Jeff Smith into prohibiting it's development or use. Around here (Pacific NW) Mark Gregson rode a similarly modified Kawasaki KX125 Rotary Valve motor (74-75) and it appeared to work too (although it still required Gregson) Smile
speedman
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1/11/2021 8:48pm
Isn't that what Puch did on the 250 that won the 1975 world championship?

Another bike I thought of was Eyevind Boyesen's 250 Husqvarna project in1971 IIRC, which pioneered the reed valve + bypass passages to the transfers that he patented. Supposedly a mid-top engine w/ 35hp at the rear wheel. He insisted on using a button flywheel ignition on it and it sounds like it was not always fun to ride; Husqvarna passed on it and to me that's a big what-if of 1970s MX.
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FreshTopEnd
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1/12/2021 2:06pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2021 2:07pm
speedman wrote:
Isn't that what Puch did on the 250 that won the 1975 world championship? Another bike I thought of was Eyevind Boyesen's 250 Husqvarna project in1971...
Isn't that what Puch did on the 250 that won the 1975 world championship?

Another bike I thought of was Eyevind Boyesen's 250 Husqvarna project in1971 IIRC, which pioneered the reed valve + bypass passages to the transfers that he patented. Supposedly a mid-top engine w/ 35hp at the rear wheel. He insisted on using a button flywheel ignition on it and it sounds like it was not always fun to ride; Husqvarna passed on it and to me that's a big what-if of 1970s MX.



Some degenerate mucking up the first one . . .
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tydog
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1/12/2021 2:11pm
👍🏻FTE. Thanks for sharing
1/12/2021 3:12pm
so sexy i will post photos as i go getting there with parts it will go in fits and starts so mid way dont think i have stoped its just time slots
TG130
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1/12/2021 9:06pm
speedman wrote:
Isn't that what Puch did on the 250 that won the 1975 world championship? Another bike I thought of was Eyevind Boyesen's 250 Husqvarna project in1971...
Isn't that what Puch did on the 250 that won the 1975 world championship?

Another bike I thought of was Eyevind Boyesen's 250 Husqvarna project in1971 IIRC, which pioneered the reed valve + bypass passages to the transfers that he patented. Supposedly a mid-top engine w/ 35hp at the rear wheel. He insisted on using a button flywheel ignition on it and it sounds like it was not always fun to ride; Husqvarna passed on it and to me that's a big what-if of 1970s MX.
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/01/12/471949/s1200_DSCN0011.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/01/12/471948/s1200_DSCN0012.jpg[/img] Some degenerate mucking up the first one . . .



Some degenerate mucking up the first one . . .
Agreed. That's one shady looking dude right there Smile
1/20/2021 5:51am

The start long stroke watercooled motor will need to be changed to a short stroke air cooled one a lot of machining
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1/20/2021 5:53am

This is the frame its going into
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speedman
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2/3/2021 12:52pm Edited Date/Time 2/4/2021 9:41am
I had to dig around my desktop to find the files for the 1972 magazine article on Eyevind Boyesen's modified Husqvarna 250, but here it is. I remembered wrong about the use of injector ports/Boyesen ports to feed the main transfers directly; this engine pioneered his twin-phase reeds to extend intake duration on demand at both low and high revs. Instead of crankcase compression by the descending piston, it gave the expansion chamber the primary role in moving mixture through the transfers on top/during overrev. Result was a wide mid-top powerband with output comparable to the better production 250s five or six years later, or 400s of its own day.



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speedman
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2/3/2021 12:59pm



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Mugen racer
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2/3/2021 6:49pm
Speedman,
Thank you for taking the time to post this.
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Shredder
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Fantasy
2/4/2021 10:44am
Speedman,
Thank you for taking the time to post this.
Good stuff. You think the white bike is the fastest pre-75 250 ever made?
speedman
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2/4/2021 12:28pm
Speedman,
Thank you for taking the time to post this.
You're welcome, Mugen racer--one of the most interesting old article scans I've seen surface via Facebook, and one of those cases where it feels a little weird to think I possibly saw Bob Grossi ride one of the resulting team bikes at Rio Bravo with no hint as to what was going on inside. It helped me understand the technological evolution toward recent 2T dirt bikes better, too.

@Shredder, IIRC a magazine added just a Skyway pipe to a stock '74 or '75 Can-Am 250 and it made at least 35, maybe nearly 37 rwhp on a dyno where other stock 250s were still trying to reach 30, without turning peaky, although it was a lot to handle. Skyway was making some good pipes then, like for the Elsinore and YZ 125s, but that was like factory-level power with just a pipe and without it they still made more than 30. There's a magazine test of the 1975 that raves on the power but says they asked Can-Am why it didn't have the 200mm travel straight-leg Betor fork, and the answer was that all production of those was allotted to Spanish marques. I guess their production chassis didn't catch up to the engine until 1977, and by then other brands were closing the power gap significantly.

I don't know if the white-tank 250 engines were the absolute best raw material those years, but clearly they belong on the short list if the rules emphasize period mods. Speaking of which, did Husky screw Boyesen over by borrowing the non-patented aspects of his prototype for the early reed-valve Husky models?
2/17/2021 2:10pm
crank is hear so i now can get on with it stator machined to fit next will be to clean up the webs and rebuild with the new RodKit
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Mugen racer
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2/20/2021 3:54pm
Shredder, I’m thinking Eyvind’s KX 250 was probably faster. Due to the fact that the KX had his injector ports. Eyvind let me race his KX at the Pocono Raceway track. It was my first 250 Expert race and I actually got the hole shot on his bike. It was really fast for the time. Great times back then.
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2/24/2021 5:26am
In no particular order, KTM, Rotax, Montesa VR, in my estimation the KTM and Rotax are tied stock to stock, the VR is just a sliver short of matching them but is a powerhouse for sure. common to all of them are advanced cylinder ports, they all have several extra transfer ports when compared to their contemporaries.
The generation prior had CZ and Husqvarna showing the way with again, advanced cylinder ports, this was why the 250's of both brands were really the only logical choice in their time.
FWIW, in the post 1975 period it was again Husqvarna showing the way with it's Boyesen designed reed valve models challenging the KTM and Rotax, Puch was also producing the twin inlet 250 that proved to be the engine to measure others by HP wise but never were available in quantity to ordinary people so they really don't count.
One last point, while these engines mentioned above were no doubt really quick in their time we must not overlook "usable power" , those user friendly traits were important too. While the big hp is impressive there needs to be an element of "usable" power to the ground, while Yamaha, Suzuki and Maico were far from the highest HP they did in fact produce the right kind of power to make them competitive, keep in mind all the power in the world is useless unless it can be put to the ground.,The HP race sort of sat in limbo for a while until the suspension made advancements, once the big players had worthy rolling units the HP wars took off for real with the advent of water cooling and variable ports.
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