Fitness people – is altitude like heat?

Crush
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Crush
In that, is there any repercussions of a semi-long term stint at altitude hammering yourself over and again, if you have to dive back in to another series? It's not sustained, planned training...

I don't know, but Kenny jumping through the whoops – that's new. Is he tired? Will this get worse over the next 1.5 weeks? Will it affect him going forward like Hangtown 2010 smoked Eli or 2011 Freestone burnt Metty?
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misterwaterfallin 6/4/2020 9:08am
6/4/2020 9:08am
Kind of, but not in the way that you're referencing. Longer stints at altitude will help when you come down as you will then have increased red blood cells, basically legally doing what taking EPO would do. Long stints at high heat will generally just drain you and will take a long time to recover from.

They are similar in that intra workout/effort recovery is very tough. Once you put yourself in the box, it's harder to recover IE put a super hard effort in on the bike, it's very hard to get your heart rate back down while you're still riding and will take slightly longer to recover after the ride/race sotps.
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Black Diesel Bomber 6/4/2020 9:13am
6/4/2020 9:13am
No expert here, but here's my take on it.

Altitude - it puts a ceiling on your performance much quicker than heat.
Crush
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Crush 6/4/2020 6:04pm
6/4/2020 6:04pm
misterwaterfallin wrote:
Kind of, but not in the way that you're referencing. Longer stints at altitude will help when you come down as you will then have increased...
Kind of, but not in the way that you're referencing. Longer stints at altitude will help when you come down as you will then have increased red blood cells, basically legally doing what taking EPO would do. Long stints at high heat will generally just drain you and will take a long time to recover from.

They are similar in that intra workout/effort recovery is very tough. Once you put yourself in the box, it's harder to recover IE put a super hard effort in on the bike, it's very hard to get your heart rate back down while you're still riding and will take slightly longer to recover after the ride/race sotps.
Cheers – I know training at altitude is 'good' for future work... but this is more than training, I wandered if consistently putting yourself in the red up there over two weeks might be a detriment...

Almost like just overtraining at normal altitude... are these guys burning the candle extra?

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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 6/5/2020 9:40am
6/5/2020 9:40am
misterwaterfallin wrote:
Kind of, but not in the way that you're referencing. Longer stints at altitude will help when you come down as you will then have increased...
Kind of, but not in the way that you're referencing. Longer stints at altitude will help when you come down as you will then have increased red blood cells, basically legally doing what taking EPO would do. Long stints at high heat will generally just drain you and will take a long time to recover from.

They are similar in that intra workout/effort recovery is very tough. Once you put yourself in the box, it's harder to recover IE put a super hard effort in on the bike, it's very hard to get your heart rate back down while you're still riding and will take slightly longer to recover after the ride/race sotps.
Crush wrote:
Cheers – I know training at altitude is 'good' for future work... but this is more than training, I wandered if consistently putting yourself in the red...
Cheers – I know training at altitude is 'good' for future work... but this is more than training, I wandered if consistently putting yourself in the red up there over two weeks might be a detriment...

Almost like just overtraining at normal altitude... are these guys burning the candle extra?

For some guys yes.

The thing with altitude is that no 2 riders will have the exact same adaptation to it over the same time period. At the cellular level some riders will just have faster changes in red cell counts, capillaries etc. Add in the intensity of racing and recovering 2x per week and we will likely see some guys improve and some be driven further into the box.

Honestly, if I was Forkner I would have went to SLC or elevation early to try together a leg up on the competition. There is a big difference in trying to adapt while training and while competing.

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ccullins
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ccullins 6/5/2020 10:20am
6/5/2020 10:20am
Like everything else it affects everyone differently. We’ve gone up to race in the Salt Lake area dozens of times (pro Endurocross) and it doesn’t effect my son at all. He keeps saying “what are they talking about with elevation”. In reality 4,000ish isn’t much, but as we see for some it’s a huge deal.
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thephoenix 6/5/2020 10:27am
6/5/2020 10:27am
The problem with heat is that your body needs to cool itself. It does this by shunting more blood to the skin to carry away heat. That leaves less blood in the muscles AND the brain, and hence less oxygen, so you fatigue much faster as heat rises and your brain can't think as fast (heat delerium!). Bigger/taller/heavier guys suffer far more in the heat, all other things being equal, because we have more mass to cool off.
GuyB
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GuyB 6/5/2020 10:43am
6/5/2020 10:43am
The good news is that through the first two rounds, it's been at altitude, AND hot...at least during the practices.
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JeremyK
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JeremyK 6/5/2020 10:47am
6/5/2020 10:47am
He posted on instagram that he was sick in November and December and actually still has lingering problems from it ,something like slight asthma.
Tenacious P
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Tenacious P 6/5/2020 10:53am
6/5/2020 10:53am
For the unacclimated athlete, higher altitude brings your aerobic threshold down significantly, putting you into anaerobic condition much faster.

Aerobic exercise uses oxygen for energy and can be done for long durations, like a marathon. Anaerobic condition occurs when oxygen becomes insufficient for aerobic exercise, the body must then use glycogen for energy. Our bodies have limited glycogen stores and can't be anaerobic for more than a couple minutes.

I don't believe there are long term effects of being anaerobic (but i'm not a scientist). The thing these athletes must religiously do is replenish their glycogen stores quickly, which can take a day or two. If the athlete cannot get his glycogen stores full before the next race (3-4 day gaps) their anaerobic performance capacity will deteriorate. On the other hand, as they spend more time at altitude, their aerobic threshold will rise.

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disbanded 6/5/2020 11:09am
6/5/2020 11:09am
From someone that moved from about 1000 feet elevation in Texas to 5280 in Colorado, I have to acclimate to both heat and elevation in much the same way. And while I'm now acclimated to the higher elevations, I absolutely can not handle the heat anymore.
ACBraap
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ACBraap 6/5/2020 2:24pm
6/5/2020 2:24pm
If I were a rider concerned about elevation, I'd have traveled to SLC as fast as I could have when the schedule was announced in order to acclimatize.

For me, elevation is easier to deal with than heat, and way easier than heat with humidity. Elevation is not just different for every person though, sometimes its even different for each person on different days.
kpiper
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kpiper 6/5/2020 3:09pm
6/5/2020 3:09pm Edited Date/Time 6/5/2020 3:09pm
Kenny will be fine this Sunday when it is only in the 50's. Plus, the longer he is there the more he will get used to it.
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GeorgiePorgie 6/5/2020 3:21pm
6/5/2020 3:21pm Edited Date/Time 6/5/2020 3:22pm
Without oxygen carrying capacity and oxygen to the tissues....performance suffers.

Although then living there until the end....is gonna make for some beasts outdoors. They’re gonna have mkre oxygen carrying capacity and I think they’ll be better stronger faster for longer outdoors.

Wonder how the 21 machine is feelin, generally doesn’t do well in altitude but looked good Wednesday.
MasonMan
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MasonMan 6/5/2020 4:16pm
6/5/2020 4:16pm
kpiper wrote:
Kenny will be fine this Sunday when it is only in the 50's. Plus, the longer he is there the more he will get used to...
Kenny will be fine this Sunday when it is only in the 50's. Plus, the longer he is there the more he will get used to it.
And in the MUD

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