Posts
112
Joined
5/14/2017
Location
Miami, FL, USA
Edited Date/Time
5/24/2020 12:21am
Did you know that oil manufacturers are allowed to label their product as “synthetic” or even “fully synthetic” when it is only partially synthetic? For example, Motorex POWER SYNT 2T is promoted as “Fully synthetic” on their web site but according to their data sheets it has 25-50% group 1 dinosaur oil. How do I know this? I looked up their data and followed the CAS oil number to find the data that reveals it is dinosaur oil, the smokey stuff that has to used at a lower gas/oil ratio. As far as I know I am the only person who has done a full expose on 2 stroke engine oils. Probably half you people reading this are using similar oils at too high a gas/oil ratio. You should read my expose to get an idea about the oil you are using. Read up on the subject at www.dragonfly75.com/moto/oil.html and if an oil is not listed there then most probably the manufacturer is such a sleazy group of scammers that they don’t make publicly available their data sheets.
The above statement taken from your webpage tells me all I need to know. Thanks
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Synthetic solvents exist but their compatibility with the fuel system at large and oil components may be troublesome, they would be exorbitantly more expensive, and they would offer no real benefit over most petroleum based solvents, which do a great job.
On another note, about halfway down your "expose" you have some copyrighted material copied and pasted from my website without attribution. I find this kinda funny since you disparage me personally at the bottom of your "expose" after using my content.
And before you start accusing me of being a "disinformation agent" for big oil, I don't work for Bel-Ray anymore and I left the oil industry almost 2 years ago. I have zero vested interest in the topic other than wanting to prevent people from believing BS they read on the internet from people who don't know what they are talking about.
Are you sure CAS 64742-47-8 is a solvent and not a group 1 oil? If it is a solvent then that is disturbing because it is often mixed with group 1 or 2 oils. PJ1 Goldfire Pro has up to 30% of it and 35% group 2 oil. So to me that is bad that so much solvent is mixed with a group 1 or 2 oil.
That CAS covers a lot of different things including solvents and lubricating oils. Petroleum solvents are by definition a group I oil. CAS numbers often cover wide ranges of materials with regard to petroleum. I say it is a solvent because:
1. They say the product is synthetic
2. The percentage is indicative of typical solvent content in 2 stroke oils.
Neither you nor anyone else can judge how good a product performs based on anything from an SDS. You can get a general idea of base oil content and you can speculate based on some of the properties and that is about it.
OK so that makes sense that it would be a solvent in a synthetic product but wouldn't it be normal to speculate that it would be a group 1 oil in PJ1 Goldfire Pro or anything similar to it?
It isn't conspiring against the lower masses, it is business where trade secrets give you an edge over the competition and allow you to produce better products for your customers sine it can't be easily copied.
To answer your question, yes, if that CAS is listed for that product is probably reasonable to speculate it has group I oil. Then again, the label says it has petroleum oil in it, so that is an even better indication it has group I oil in it.
Since group 3's are hydro-cracked from higher carbon chain molecules into lower carbon chain molecules, low viscosity is easier to accomplish and even desirable depending on how it is being used in the formula.
Using a low vis group 2, 3 , or 4 as the main base oil for a 2-stroke oil would make a terrible product though. You want a high viscosity lube base oil to provide the film strength after the solvent (used for delivery through the system) burns off.
That is a very simplified explanation, but using a low vis base oil on par with solvent in terms of viscosity, for the bulk of the formula would provide practically nothing in terms of protection.
Pit Row
I believe as long as 50% or more of a lubricant product is synthetic, then it can be called "semi-syn," and 70% or more can be called "full syn." (Help me out with my percentages, Moto Tribology...)
*For those who do not know, fossil oils can be refined into three groups, each stage a more complex process. The third stage leaves conventional base oil which is so refined, it behaves in many ways like a synthetic oil.
It all depends on the company though and how they handle their business. I've seen it done, but I honestly don't know how much it happens or who does it anymore.
For the marketing angle, I believe only Germany, and by association the EU, have a legal definition of the term. I may be out of date with that info though too.
I never liked the marketing, legal, and tax stuff. That's why I stuck to the tech side. That changes at a much slower pace.
to measure hp and ring/piston life
You said that 40:1 works for any oil but yet you seized when using Yamalube at 50:1 which is an excellent oil when used at 27:1 (for an air cooled 250cc) so you used half as much oil as it needs. You proved that oils need to be run at different ratios, depending on their viscosity and additives. The Amsoil Dominator has some synthetic oil in it and a great additive package so of course it would love 50:1.
Can you clue us in about the additives that Dominator has and why they allow riders to use so little oil?
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