Question for Avgas Users (100ll)

FWYT
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FWYT 5/5/2020 8:47am
5/5/2020 8:47am
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to
the pump with a 5 gallon jug? I feel like I have been missing out!

I am in San Diego, if that makes a difference.
Spode
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Spode 5/5/2020 8:52am
5/5/2020 8:52am
UpTiTe wrote:
Avgas is trash for your bike. It’s designed to burn at high altitudes at 35-4500 RPMs. Gas is not gas, they all have different blends designed...
Avgas is trash for your bike.

It’s designed to burn at high altitudes at 35-4500 RPMs. Gas is not gas, they all have different blends designed to burn different ways.

If you ran 91 non Ethanol gas, it would run better than the trash you have in it. Drain your tank and put in good pure gas.
captmoto wrote:
blah, blah, blah. Do you have extensive experience running avgas? Maybe you can direct him to a place, any place that he can buy non-ethanol 91...
blah, blah, blah. Do you have extensive experience running avgas? Maybe you can direct him to a place, any place that he can buy non-ethanol 91. I'll save you the trouble. Nothing within 50 miles.
I never had any problem running it any 2 stroke I've owned. From a YZ465 to my weed whacker. If you rode my CR250 or YZ465 and weren't told it had avgas you would be happy with the way they run.
My string trimmer sat for 6 months, started on the third pull.

OP, agree you need to check your reeds, it's got to be something other than the gas.
What airport are you buying it from, Cable?
Do you know the access code?
captmoto
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captmoto 5/5/2020 9:08am
5/5/2020 9:08am
Spode wrote:
What airport are you buying it from, Cable?
Do you know the access code?
Yes, Cable. It is a process but they are very cool about it. I went in and told them I wanted race gas. Got a smile and was asked if I know the procedure and then given a gate card. You basically drive through the hangar area on the north side of the airport. There is a small parking lot near the pumps you walk to. Do not drive up to the pumps and DO NOT cross any yellow lines. When you are done you need to return the card,
captmoto
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captmoto 5/5/2020 9:18am
5/5/2020 9:18am
FWYT wrote:
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to the pump with a 5 gallon jug...
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to
the pump with a 5 gallon jug? I feel like I have been missing out!

I am in San Diego, if that makes a difference.
Where I go is a privately owned airport. I could not get it in a LA county airport. You will have to do some research and try it. Maybe just call around first.
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Bramlett321
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Bramlett321 5/5/2020 9:36am
5/5/2020 9:36am
I've ran that LL100 in every two stroke I've had since the 90's and never had a problem. Usually mixing it 40:1 with the motul 800 and ran crisp and clean. Jetting could be an issue but where is the fuel/air screw ? Check that along with the reeds.
mx317
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mx317 5/5/2020 10:12am
5/5/2020 10:12am
Many race gas companies use avgas as a base and then add their additive package. The whole argument of it working better at altitude doesn't make sense when the most power is needed on the ground at take off.
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Adam43
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Adam43 5/5/2020 10:34am
5/5/2020 10:34am
Avgas is great. Not as good as C12 or a lot of the pricier stuff, but miles better than pump if you are getting detonation or running higher compression.
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Rick Amatuzio 5/5/2020 10:41am
5/5/2020 10:41am Edited Date/Time 5/5/2020 10:45am
UpTiTe wrote:
Avgas is trash for your bike. It’s designed to burn at high altitudes at 35-4500 RPMs. Gas is not gas, they all have different blends designed...
Avgas is trash for your bike.

It’s designed to burn at high altitudes at 35-4500 RPMs. Gas is not gas, they all have different blends designed to burn different ways.

If you ran 91 non Ethanol gas, it would run better than the trash you have in it. Drain your tank and put in good pure gas.
Lightning78 wrote:
I ran it pure a week prior with zero pump gas mixed in and the bike ran absolutely incredible. 1 week later it does this so...
I ran it pure a week prior with zero pump gas mixed in and the bike ran absolutely incredible. 1 week later it does this so I doubt the avgas itself is the problem unless it absorbed a massive amount of moisture in 1 week which is why I'm asking.

Something important was mentioned in an avgas thread and that is that the most crucial part of a plane's engine performance is at takeoff isnt it? Therefore the gas is also perfectly fine to run at altitudes on terrestrial earth so I dont thing it's an altitude problem with the gas either.

I'm going to check my vforce reeds but I may try pump gas first and see what happens. One things for sure, that kx250 pings bad on 91 pump gas and didnt ping a lick on the avgas
UpTiTe wrote:
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say it’s bad for your bike, it isn’t. It won’t hurt your bike but imo it’s trash. Avgas is more oxygenated...
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say it’s bad for your bike, it isn’t. It won’t hurt your bike but imo it’s trash.

Avgas is more oxygenated so it actually run leaner than pump gas and that is why it feel better

Its designed to run at slower rpms at altitude so it has a slower burn rate, so if you running in higher RPMs, you’re spitting unspent fuel out of your exhausts which causes heat.

Avgas is measured differently then regular gas, in reality it’s about a 96 octane compared to regular gas but the oxygenation makes it feel so much better. Your bike will run better than regular pump, but it will run much better and cooler with a clean 92-98 octane, and it’s cheaper.

Another thing I’ll add, octane doesn’t mean horse power.

That is completely incorrect. Avgas has no ethanol, methanol or any other oxygenate. It runs richer as it has a higher stoichiometric ratio of 15.3:1 At least that WAS the case a few years ago unless something changed. It’s a good fuel, you will be down on power a little but it will control detonation.
TheNewOriginal 5/5/2020 11:32am
5/5/2020 11:32am Edited Date/Time 5/5/2020 11:33am
SeaClassExpert wrote:
there is not a shred of evidence that backs up anything you’ve claimed. You literally just write anecdotes and opinions to pass them off as fact.
https://www.everything2stroke.com/threads/racing-gasoline-verses-aviati…

Interesting read: Consistent with UpTite's comments.

Spode
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Spode 5/5/2020 12:17pm
5/5/2020 12:17pm
Spode wrote:
What airport are you buying it from, Cable?
Do you know the access code?
captmoto wrote:
Yes, Cable. It is a process but they are very cool about it. I went in and told them I wanted race gas. Got a smile...
Yes, Cable. It is a process but they are very cool about it. I went in and told them I wanted race gas. Got a smile and was asked if I know the procedure and then given a gate card. You basically drive through the hangar area on the north side of the airport. There is a small parking lot near the pumps you walk to. Do not drive up to the pumps and DO NOT cross any yellow lines. When you are done you need to return the card,
Thanks
I live in Upland so this will work great for me
coastlinecascot 5/5/2020 12:34pm
5/5/2020 12:34pm
FWYT wrote:
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to the pump with a 5 gallon jug...
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to
the pump with a 5 gallon jug? I feel like I have been missing out!

I am in San Diego, if that makes a difference.
Hopefully your airport person will show you how to use the pumps. Damn thing is complicated your first time using it. Also it will ask for a plane number. I just put zeros.
2
UpTiTe 5/5/2020 12:47pm
5/5/2020 12:47pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say it’s bad for your bike, it isn’t. It won’t hurt your bike but imo it’s trash. Avgas is more oxygenated...
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say it’s bad for your bike, it isn’t. It won’t hurt your bike but imo it’s trash.

Avgas is more oxygenated so it actually run leaner than pump gas and that is why it feel better

Its designed to run at slower rpms at altitude so it has a slower burn rate, so if you running in higher RPMs, you’re spitting unspent fuel out of your exhausts which causes heat.

Avgas is measured differently then regular gas, in reality it’s about a 96 octane compared to regular gas but the oxygenation makes it feel so much better. Your bike will run better than regular pump, but it will run much better and cooler with a clean 92-98 octane, and it’s cheaper.

Another thing I’ll add, octane doesn’t mean horse power.

SeaClassExpert wrote:
there is not a shred of evidence that backs up anything you’ve claimed. You literally just write anecdotes and opinions to pass them off as fact.
Ok
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pcm_918
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pcm_918 5/5/2020 12:54pm
5/5/2020 12:54pm
100ll is awesome. All I have ran for years in my smokers. The only issue is some oils will separate if left sitting. Castor 927 will settle out.
mx317
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mx317 5/5/2020 1:08pm
5/5/2020 1:08pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2020 1:16pm
SeaClassExpert wrote:
there is not a shred of evidence that backs up anything you’ve claimed. You literally just write anecdotes and opinions to pass them off as fact.
TheNewOriginal wrote:
https://www.everything2stroke.com/threads/racing-gasoline-verses-aviati…

Interesting read: Consistent with UpTite's comments.

Not really if you read on down. Comments from Rich Rohrich engine builder:
"Here's my short course take on things based on my experience and personal biases, (keep in mind this is pretty generalized)

- In almost every case 100ll avgas is a better choice than alcohol pump fuels"

That's not saying it's better than U4.4, but better than pump.

Lightning78
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Lightning78 5/5/2020 1:41pm
5/5/2020 1:41pm
FWYT wrote:
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to the pump with a 5 gallon jug...
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to
the pump with a 5 gallon jug? I feel like I have been missing out!

I am in San Diego, if that makes a difference.
captmoto wrote:
Where I go is a privately owned airport. I could not get it in a LA county airport. You will have to do some research and...
Where I go is a privately owned airport. I could not get it in a LA county airport. You will have to do some research and try it. Maybe just call around first.
I went to an airport in lodi ....drove right up to the pump and got it.

The card reader asked me for a "Tail Number" so I put in one from the nearest plane I saw 😂
1
Lightning78
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Lightning78 5/5/2020 1:42pm
5/5/2020 1:42pm
FWYT wrote:
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to the pump with a 5 gallon jug...
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to
the pump with a 5 gallon jug? I feel like I have been missing out!

I am in San Diego, if that makes a difference.
coastlinecascot wrote:
Hopefully your airport person will show you how to use the pumps. Damn thing is complicated your first time using it. Also it will ask for...
Hopefully your airport person will show you how to use the pumps. Damn thing is complicated your first time using it. Also it will ask for a plane number. I just put zeros.
I'll have to do that next time, I used one from a pl lane next to it just sitting. It looked like it had nee sitting for a while.

I only got 2 gallons
1
Lightning78
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Lightning78 5/5/2020 1:43pm
5/5/2020 1:43pm
Talked to an engine builder today he thinks it might be my high speed coil on my 03 KX250 said these bikes had ignition issues
1
UpTiTe 5/5/2020 2:13pm
5/5/2020 2:13pm
mx317 wrote:
Not really if you read on down. Comments from Rich Rohrich engine builder: "Here's my short course take on things based on my experience and personal...
Not really if you read on down. Comments from Rich Rohrich engine builder:
"Here's my short course take on things based on my experience and personal biases, (keep in mind this is pretty generalized)

- In almost every case 100ll avgas is a better choice than alcohol pump fuels"

That's not saying it's better than U4.4, but better than pump.

That’s literally what I said.
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captmoto
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captmoto 5/5/2020 2:14pm
5/5/2020 2:14pm
Adam43 wrote:
Avgas is great. Not as good as C12 or a lot of the pricier stuff, but miles better than pump if you are getting detonation or...
Avgas is great. Not as good as C12 or a lot of the pricier stuff, but miles better than pump if you are getting detonation or running higher compression.
Yes, C12 is for higher compression motors. If your motor is stock then avgas is a viable replacement for shitty ethanol pump gas that also get swapped out between winter and summer.
captmoto
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captmoto 5/5/2020 2:16pm
5/5/2020 2:16pm
Spode wrote:
What airport are you buying it from, Cable?
Do you know the access code?
captmoto wrote:
Yes, Cable. It is a process but they are very cool about it. I went in and told them I wanted race gas. Got a smile...
Yes, Cable. It is a process but they are very cool about it. I went in and told them I wanted race gas. Got a smile and was asked if I know the procedure and then given a gate card. You basically drive through the hangar area on the north side of the airport. There is a small parking lot near the pumps you walk to. Do not drive up to the pumps and DO NOT cross any yellow lines. When you are done you need to return the card,
Spode wrote:
Thanks
I live in Upland so this will work great for me
The office is on the side of the airport near the restaurant.
Tracktor
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Tracktor 5/5/2020 2:24pm
5/5/2020 2:24pm
Simply put - match the fuel to the engine settings. Our bikes are jetting/squish set for 50/50 avgas/non-ethanl premium. Mainly for consistency of fuel. I buy from same places every time. Pistons look clean when pulled for rebuild & our bikes run very strong. Most fuel related issues come from people not matching the fuel they run to how the engine is set. Or changing fuels thinking somehow the fuel itself is going to make their bike faster.......
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coastlinecascot 5/5/2020 8:26pm
5/5/2020 8:26pm
Funny story the first time i bought avgas at the airport pumps. I was at the murrieta airport standing at the pump trying to figure out how to use it. Out of the blue a guy comes rolling up in his plane waiting for me to finish. I finally figure it out and start pumping. Right around 4.5 gallons i release the pump handle. Well another gallons comes out of the hose and overflows my 5 gallon container. Those long fuel hoses hold a lot fuel. Felt like an idiot.
Rick Amatuzio 5/5/2020 8:35pm
5/5/2020 8:35pm
SeaClassExpert wrote:
there is not a shred of evidence that backs up anything you’ve claimed. You literally just write anecdotes and opinions to pass them off as fact.
TheNewOriginal wrote:
https://www.everything2stroke.com/threads/racing-gasoline-verses-aviati…

Interesting read: Consistent with UpTite's comments.

Shell 100LL has a specific gravity of .68ish.. pump gas around .72. Alcohol is .8 and nitromethane is 1.1. Avgas WILL run RICH, the density of the fuel affects how the float sits in the bowl, pullover and how it’s metered through the jet etc. I used to sit in a lab and run motors with wide band o2 and play with different fuels, and test lubricants.
Whoever writes these opinion articles blow my mind, no clue on understand how this works. It’s a good fuel, the lead can be a problem with your plug, and I’ve wrecked several o2 sensors with 100LL.

You will not see a power improvement running it, you will be able to run more timing however which will help response. VP has the ratios of all these fuels listed on their website. The more oxygenated (lower stoichiometric) the
richer the motor needs to be for optimal. VP has their own version of 100LL called Air-Race, Stoichio of 14.9, while C12 is 14.3. C12 will run considerably leaner. U4 is like 13.2 and will run LEANer yet all things the same.

I’m down with 100LL Mix, it’s a lot cheaper than paying for expensive race fuels and it controls detonation well, whoever wrote that article doesn’t really understand how this works.
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FahQ
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FahQ 5/5/2020 8:44pm
5/5/2020 8:44pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say it’s bad for your bike, it isn’t. It won’t hurt your bike but imo it’s trash. Avgas is more oxygenated...
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say it’s bad for your bike, it isn’t. It won’t hurt your bike but imo it’s trash.

Avgas is more oxygenated so it actually run leaner than pump gas and that is why it feel better

Its designed to run at slower rpms at altitude so it has a slower burn rate, so if you running in higher RPMs, you’re spitting unspent fuel out of your exhausts which causes heat.

Avgas is measured differently then regular gas, in reality it’s about a 96 octane compared to regular gas but the oxygenation makes it feel so much better. Your bike will run better than regular pump, but it will run much better and cooler with a clean 92-98 octane, and it’s cheaper.

Another thing I’ll add, octane doesn’t mean horse power.

How can any fuel that can stay fresh for two years be crap?

100LL has no Oxygen

Heat in the pipe can be a tuning aid if you know how to take advantage of it

100LL is 100 MON,
Its R+M/2 is higher

You are correct Octane doesn’t mean horsepower, but horsepower in a two stroke means Octane 😁

Don’t get me wrong I love me some VP
But 100LL is not crap
Rick Amatuzio 5/6/2020 4:49am
5/6/2020 4:49am
UpTiTe wrote:
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say it’s bad for your bike, it isn’t. It won’t hurt your bike but imo it’s trash. Avgas is more oxygenated...
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say it’s bad for your bike, it isn’t. It won’t hurt your bike but imo it’s trash.

Avgas is more oxygenated so it actually run leaner than pump gas and that is why it feel better

Its designed to run at slower rpms at altitude so it has a slower burn rate, so if you running in higher RPMs, you’re spitting unspent fuel out of your exhausts which causes heat.

Avgas is measured differently then regular gas, in reality it’s about a 96 octane compared to regular gas but the oxygenation makes it feel so much better. Your bike will run better than regular pump, but it will run much better and cooler with a clean 92-98 octane, and it’s cheaper.

Another thing I’ll add, octane doesn’t mean horse power.

FahQ wrote:
How can any fuel that can stay fresh for two years be crap? 100LL has no Oxygen Heat in the pipe can be a tuning aid...
How can any fuel that can stay fresh for two years be crap?

100LL has no Oxygen

Heat in the pipe can be a tuning aid if you know how to take advantage of it

100LL is 100 MON,
Its R+M/2 is higher

You are correct Octane doesn’t mean horsepower, but horsepower in a two stroke means Octane 😁

Don’t get me wrong I love me some VP
But 100LL is not crap
I agree. I don’t think anything is crap.. Ethanol makes a ton of power. 100LL has its place, like preventing vapor lock (reed vapor pressure). It’s light, no oxygenates, lots of lead... for a high compression motor, it works. Slow burn rate. Premium pump gas does well for 90% of us.

Oxygenates are heavy. For example methyl and ethyl alcohol, used for moisture. Methyl alcohol will sink to the bottom of your fuel tank and melt ice but will not solulbilize the water in suspension. However, ethyl alcohol will solulbilize water (doesn’t really melt ice) and hold it in suspension and deliver to combustion. That’s why HEET makes two different formulas.
We all know we need to richen our jetting to compensate the higher the oxygen content, and make more power. 100LL runs us the other direction, it’s less dense. (These densities are all measured at different temperatures) So for those on this forum that HATE ethanol, 100LL is your go to unless you go VP or Sonoco race fuel, and they use MTBE instead.
Boomslang 5/6/2020 6:47am
5/6/2020 6:47am Edited Date/Time 5/6/2020 6:49am
FWYT wrote:
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to the pump with a 5 gallon jug...
Question- How do I get AvGas? Can I just pull into my local small airport and pull up to
the pump with a 5 gallon jug? I feel like I have been missing out!

I am in San Diego, if that makes a difference.
captmoto wrote:
Where I go is a privately owned airport. I could not get it in a LA county airport. You will have to do some research and...
Where I go is a privately owned airport. I could not get it in a LA county airport. You will have to do some research and try it. Maybe just call around first.
Lightning78 wrote:
I went to an airport in lodi ....drove right up to the pump and got it. The card reader asked me for a "Tail Number" so...
I went to an airport in lodi ....drove right up to the pump and got it.

The card reader asked me for a "Tail Number" so I put in one from the nearest plane I saw 😂

1
Lightning78
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Lightning78 5/6/2020 7:09am
5/6/2020 7:09am
coastlinecascot wrote:
Funny story the first time i bought avgas at the airport pumps. I was at the murrieta airport standing at the pump trying to figure out...
Funny story the first time i bought avgas at the airport pumps. I was at the murrieta airport standing at the pump trying to figure out how to use it. Out of the blue a guy comes rolling up in his plane waiting for me to finish. I finally figure it out and start pumping. Right around 4.5 gallons i release the pump handle. Well another gallons comes out of the hose and overflows my 5 gallon container. Those long fuel hoses hold a lot fuel. Felt like an idiot.
That sort of happened to me the first time I used it got at least .25 gallons before the pump started up. Soon as I pulled the handle a bunch came out before my 2 gallons started pumping
captmoto
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captmoto 5/6/2020 11:01am
5/6/2020 11:01am
Lightning78 wrote:
That sort of happened to me the first time I used it got at least .25 gallons before the pump started up. Soon as I pulled...
That sort of happened to me the first time I used it got at least .25 gallons before the pump started up. Soon as I pulled the handle a bunch came out before my 2 gallons started pumping
It comes out fast too but I dial in 5 gallons and it does it's own shut off. If you are getting gas flowing out of the hose I think that is a problem with the nozzle.
coastlinecascot 5/6/2020 11:47am
5/6/2020 11:47am Edited Date/Time 5/6/2020 11:47am
Lightning78 wrote:
That sort of happened to me the first time I used it got at least .25 gallons before the pump started up. Soon as I pulled...
That sort of happened to me the first time I used it got at least .25 gallons before the pump started up. Soon as I pulled the handle a bunch came out before my 2 gallons started pumping
captmoto wrote:
It comes out fast too but I dial in 5 gallons and it does it's own shut off. If you are getting gas flowing out of...
It comes out fast too but I dial in 5 gallons and it does it's own shut off. If you are getting gas flowing out of the hose I think that is a problem with the nozzle.
Or it could be fuel left over in the hose from the previous customer after their tanks filled up.

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