Just got me some Engine Ice...

Titan
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Titan
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 9:06am
I just replaced the valves on my 06 CRF 250R, and one of the reasons I think they needed to be replaced was because when I ride single track the engine runs hotter (because I'm going slower). That extra Heat, from everything I've read (maybe you engine experts-williamsmotoworx-can correct me if I'm wrong) causes the Nitrate coating on the titanium valve to wear faster than normal which then allows the titanium to "mushroom".

So Engine Ice was recommended to me by a local dealer...

Anyone have any feedback on the ice for this particular instance?

I've honestly only heard good things about it, and was going to use it this year anyway, but just looking for some info.
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Sledneck
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Sledneck 5/12/2009 3:33pm
5/12/2009 3:33pm
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water temp has minimal to do with exhaust temp if anything at all.

Look at a Nitro funny car or a diesel truck. You can melt the valves and have cold coolant.
Titan
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Titan 5/12/2009 3:41pm
5/12/2009 3:41pm
Sledneck wrote:
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water...
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water temp has minimal to do with exhaust temp if anything at all.

Look at a Nitro funny car or a diesel truck. You can melt the valves and have cold coolant.
Thanks for the info.

On many hot days, on slower technical single track sections it has/is on the verge of boiling over a time or two....


I've heard Engine Ice is more apt to discplace engine heat than regular coolant...so I figured I'd give it a try (but I was going to anyway, just to support a fellow board member).

BUTCH
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BUTCH 5/12/2009 3:51pm
5/12/2009 3:51pm
It serves no purpose unless you have engine mods , pipe ect. ect........
lumpy790
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lumpy790 5/12/2009 4:34pm
5/12/2009 4:34pm
AHHHH...stock bikes run hot and over hear too.

Engine Ice is better period.

The Shop

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Racer92
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Racer92 5/12/2009 5:17pm
5/12/2009 5:17pm
You need to put a new plug in, and see where the jetting is at.

Lean = Hotter
project racer
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project racer 5/12/2009 7:40pm
5/12/2009 7:40pm
Sledneck wrote:
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water...
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water temp has minimal to do with exhaust temp if anything at all.

Look at a Nitro funny car or a diesel truck. You can melt the valves and have cold coolant.
Nitro F/C does not run coolant .
JOHN CHOATE
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JOHN CHOATE 5/12/2009 7:43pm
5/12/2009 7:43pm
Sledneck wrote:
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water...
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water temp has minimal to do with exhaust temp if anything at all.

Look at a Nitro funny car or a diesel truck. You can melt the valves and have cold coolant.
Solid block. No coolant.
Arkmx
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Arkmx 5/12/2009 7:51pm
5/12/2009 7:51pm
Good choice..!

Cant hurt to use it, stock or mod......
pitbike502
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pitbike502 5/12/2009 8:07pm
5/12/2009 8:07pm
crf 250s just plain suck. engine ice will not cure your problem, berylium copper seats will help allevite the problem, but wont cure it ceing a honda. All, I repeat ALL Honda 250fs are just poor running machines int the long run.
contact cv4 and purchase the whole exceldyne set up and you will find our CRF will run much better and las 3 times as long. keyword: copper. for you seats, guides.. psi springs, ti retainers and valves..
Cygnus
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Cygnus 5/12/2009 8:16pm
5/12/2009 8:16pm
It will help with the cooling. Coolant boils at a lower temp at altitude. What altitude do you ride . 6-8 K?
flarider
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flarider 5/13/2009 5:55am
5/13/2009 5:55am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 11:53pm
Cygnus wrote:
It will help with the cooling. Coolant boils at a lower temp at altitude. What altitude do you ride . 6-8 K?
I think that's the other way around. Higher altitude, higher boil point due to pressure difference from sea level


Couple things, while lower temps can be good when achieved, the real goal you want to shoot for is stability in temperatures.

You want your choice of coolant to maintain a more consistent overall operating temperature that will allow your engine to maintain more consistent power and throttle response throughout your race or trail ride.

This is applicable to stock and modified engines.


Some advice and the two primary things we see:

1) Don't idle. Don't stop and BS with your buddies and let the engine idle, shut it off. There's no fan and nothing to move air across the radiator when you're idling, so your cooling system is practically inoperative. Also, on the starting line, fire it up at the last minute, as late as possible. Old two stroke habits make us fire it up early to warm it up and clean it out...unnecessary on four strokes.


2) Do not fill the radiator all the way to the cap, fill only to the top of the core. You have no idea how many times people come to me saying "I 'burn' a little coolant every time I ride and have to top it off every ride" to which I reply "Are you filling it all the way to the top?" and they'll say "of course!"

That's the problem. Fluids expand when hot, and if you fill to the top, the fluid will get pushed out when it gets hot and expands. Fill only to the top of the core...the core you see when you look into the radiator cap neck...do not "top off"
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 5/13/2009 5:59am
5/13/2009 5:59am
Cygnus wrote:
It will help with the cooling. Coolant boils at a lower temp at altitude. What altitude do you ride . 6-8 K?
flarider wrote:
I think that's the other way around. Higher altitude, higher boil point due to pressure difference from sea level Couple things, while lower temps can be...
I think that's the other way around. Higher altitude, higher boil point due to pressure difference from sea level


Couple things, while lower temps can be good when achieved, the real goal you want to shoot for is stability in temperatures.

You want your choice of coolant to maintain a more consistent overall operating temperature that will allow your engine to maintain more consistent power and throttle response throughout your race or trail ride.

This is applicable to stock and modified engines.


Some advice and the two primary things we see:

1) Don't idle. Don't stop and BS with your buddies and let the engine idle, shut it off. There's no fan and nothing to move air across the radiator when you're idling, so your cooling system is practically inoperative. Also, on the starting line, fire it up at the last minute, as late as possible. Old two stroke habits make us fire it up early to warm it up and clean it out...unnecessary on four strokes.


2) Do not fill the radiator all the way to the cap, fill only to the top of the core. You have no idea how many times people come to me saying "I 'burn' a little coolant every time I ride and have to top it off every ride" to which I reply "Are you filling it all the way to the top?" and they'll say "of course!"

That's the problem. Fluids expand when hot, and if you fill to the top, the fluid will get pushed out when it gets hot and expands. Fill only to the top of the core...the core you see when you look into the radiator cap neck...do not "top off"
water boils at 212°F at sea level, but as altitude increases the temperature at which water boils decreases at the rate of 1.9°F for each 1,000 feet because there is less atmospheric pressure on the surface of liquids
flarider
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flarider 5/13/2009 6:02am
5/13/2009 6:02am
Did I get that backwards?
I always get that confused

That's what I get for living sea level all my life

Thanks, my bad
ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 5/13/2009 6:26am
5/13/2009 6:26am
flarider wrote:
Did I get that backwards?
I always get that confused

That's what I get for living sea level all my life

Thanks, my bad
thats an experiment we made at elementary school turns out our school was 1516 meters above sea level and water boiled at 96 degrees celsius instead of at a 100 degrees celsius. imagine when we go to the mountains some of the toughest singletracks are at 2000 meters or above and need less to say our bikes run hot. motion pro has a neat catch tank setup that returns the lost fluid when the bike cools down. i also run engine ice and be sure yuor bike is not lean.
bogdan912
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bogdan912 5/13/2009 6:45am
5/13/2009 6:45am
I never knew you should only fill the coolant to the top of the core, see that you learn something new at vital everyday.
Racer92
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Racer92 5/13/2009 6:51am
5/13/2009 6:51am
bogdan912 wrote:
I never knew you should only fill the coolant to the top of the core, see that you learn something new at vital everyday.
If you fill it to the top, its just gonna expand, spill over and seek the correct level on its own anyway.
sc961
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sc961 5/13/2009 6:56am
5/13/2009 6:56am
2) Do not fill the radiator all the way to the cap, fill only to the top of the core. You have no idea how many times people come to me saying "I 'burn' a little coolant every time I ride and have to top it off every ride" to which I reply "Are you filling it all the way to the top?" and they'll say "of course!"

And I always thought more was better....

We have a 2008 KXF250. It burned stock antifreeze like mad. Changed it out with engine ice, of course filling it just over the core as per spec, and the problem all but disappeard.

Pit Row

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bogdan912
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bogdan912 5/13/2009 6:56am
5/13/2009 6:56am
I don't fill it to the tippy top, but usually when I see the core I think it's to low and add some. I am happy with it being in the middle of the core and the cap.
jtomasik
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jtomasik 5/13/2009 7:17am
5/13/2009 7:17am Edited Date/Time 5/13/2009 7:18am
Sledneck wrote:
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water...
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water temp has minimal to do with exhaust temp if anything at all.

Look at a Nitro funny car or a diesel truck. You can melt the valves and have cold coolant.
JOHN CHOATE wrote:
Solid block. No coolant.
Not for a diesel engine.

Everyone does know that the PROPER temperature is what you're seeking, not simply "colder".
jtomasik
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jtomasik 5/13/2009 7:19am
5/13/2009 7:19am
flarider wrote:
Did I get that backwards?
I always get that confused

That's what I get for living sea level all my life

Thanks, my bad
You promote and sell this stuff, but get that basic physics backwards?


Wow.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 5/13/2009 7:30am
5/13/2009 7:30am
I was right Dave was wrong. Neener neener!Tongue
flarider
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flarider 5/13/2009 7:37am
5/13/2009 7:37am
jtomasik wrote:
You promote and sell this stuff, but get that basic physics backwards?


Wow.
I'll try to remember to finish my coffee and clear my eyes before responding to technical shit

BTW, that's not the only thing I always confuse...I always get my kid's birthdays wrong by one day...always, every time...dunno why. I also confuse my left from my right, I guess that's because I am left handed, I dunno

Then again, maybe it's just brain damage
jtomasik
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jtomasik 5/13/2009 7:54am
5/13/2009 7:54am
Just odd, Dave. I know that you believe in your product, and you getting that mixed up doesn't mean your product doesn't benefit some situations. But, it is pretty basic to the physics behind cooling systems.

Think of it this way...if you pulled off your helmet in space, it's theoretically possible that the water in your body would boil immediately, even in the cold of space, because there's no air pressure.
lumpy790
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lumpy790 5/13/2009 7:57am
5/13/2009 7:57am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 11:53pm
Fill it to the top cold and add our coolant tank. Surge system Keeps the radiator full.....just like your car.

Keeps coolant off your starting pad and tire.


dirthead1
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dirthead1 5/13/2009 8:35am
5/13/2009 8:35am
Sledneck wrote:
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water...
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water temp has minimal to do with exhaust temp if anything at all.

Look at a Nitro funny car or a diesel truck. You can melt the valves and have cold coolant.
JOHN CHOATE wrote:
Solid block. No coolant.
Yea that guy has no clue and shouldn't be giving engine advice. Exhaust temp is what causes water to boil over in the head.
jtomasik
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jtomasik 5/13/2009 8:52am
5/13/2009 8:52am Edited Date/Time 5/13/2009 8:54am
Sledneck wrote:
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water...
If it isnt boiling over, it isnt that hot. Exhaust temp would have to be enormous for quite a while to affect water temp, and water temp has minimal to do with exhaust temp if anything at all.

Look at a Nitro funny car or a diesel truck. You can melt the valves and have cold coolant.
JOHN CHOATE wrote:
Solid block. No coolant.
dirthead1 wrote:
Yea that guy has no clue and shouldn't be giving engine advice. Exhaust temp is what causes water to boil over in the head.
There are multiple reasons why coolant will boil, not just exhaust, just like there are multiple reasons why valves can melt, and they're not all coolant temp related.
Titan
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Titan 5/13/2009 8:54am
5/13/2009 8:54am
Racer92 wrote:
You need to put a new plug in, and see where the jetting is at.

Lean = Hotter
Thanks! I'll check on that.

Jetting is tough when riding some of the single track out here, when we'll ride from 5,000 feet to over 9,000 (occassionally higher), so if the jetting is right when we start it's always way off by the middle of the ride.

But I will certainly see if I can find a better overall setting than where it's at right now. Good advice.
dirthead1
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dirthead1 5/13/2009 8:59am
5/13/2009 8:59am
JOHN CHOATE wrote:
Solid block. No coolant.
dirthead1 wrote:
Yea that guy has no clue and shouldn't be giving engine advice. Exhaust temp is what causes water to boil over in the head.
jtomasik wrote:
There are multiple reasons why coolant will boil, not just exhaust, just like there are multiple reasons why valves can melt, and they're not all coolant...
There are multiple reasons why coolant will boil, not just exhaust, just like there are multiple reasons why valves can melt, and they're not all coolant temp related.
I'm going to let you think about this one. Without combustion and the resulting hot exhaust you have no heat in an internal combustion engine. Simple physics
Titan
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Titan 5/13/2009 9:00am
5/13/2009 9:00am
pitbike502 wrote:
crf 250s just plain suck. engine ice will not cure your problem, berylium copper seats will help allevite the problem, but wont cure it ceing a...
crf 250s just plain suck. engine ice will not cure your problem, berylium copper seats will help allevite the problem, but wont cure it ceing a honda. All, I repeat ALL Honda 250fs are just poor running machines int the long run.
contact cv4 and purchase the whole exceldyne set up and you will find our CRF will run much better and las 3 times as long. keyword: copper. for you seats, guides.. psi springs, ti retainers and valves..
That from a guy wearing a Honda t-shirt in his sig...

I'm not sure about all of that though...my next valve job on the bike I'm going with stainless steel valves and spring kit. Most people that I talk to that switch to steel valves virtually never have valve issues again. Ever.

I think my problem, as I said, is riding single track where it's at high altitudes (jetting is off), slower riding (engine runs hotter), and it's dustier than an MX track (this increases the likelyhood that dust will get through the air filter)...I think a combination of those things were the reason the stock valves failed so soon.

So I'm gonna try engine ice, be even more anal on the air filter, not idle the bike, and see if I can find a more acceptable jetting setting...

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