London Knife Attack

RONJ OSE
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7/16/2019 1:38pm
Beeby wrote:
Dude. A ratio per person takes into account the size of the country. The point in the button is that it makes a shit load of...
Dude. A ratio per person takes into account the size of the country.

The point in the button is that it makes a shit load of noise and also alerts the cops. Someone is trying to sneak into your house in the night, you press the button and they have to really think about whether they want to come in now they know you know they are still there. Meanwhile your sweaty finger print isn’t recognised on your finger print safe.

We won’t even get into the fact gun owners are statistically more likely to be shot by their own gun.

You’ve listened to too much NRA propaganda and scare mongering. No one is sneaking into your house in the night to murder you. And if they are, in a gun free country they wouldn’t be shooting you!
RONJ OSE wrote:
I’m sorry isn’t Australia a gun free country or what ever and that guy still had a gun Shit happens I don’t listen to the NRA...
I’m sorry isn’t Australia a gun free country or what ever and that guy still had a gun
Shit happens I don’t listen to the NRA and I am not a member.
Locks only keep honest people honest
And laws only keep honest people honest
Keep your button I’ll keep my gun and we will see how it ends
Beeby wrote:
At least in my world no one in my house is gonna get shot by our gun. Guaranteed
But someone who has a gun may shoot you
Beeby
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7/16/2019 1:50pm
RONJ OSE wrote:
I’m sorry isn’t Australia a gun free country or what ever and that guy still had a gun Shit happens I don’t listen to the NRA...
I’m sorry isn’t Australia a gun free country or what ever and that guy still had a gun
Shit happens I don’t listen to the NRA and I am not a member.
Locks only keep honest people honest
And laws only keep honest people honest
Keep your button I’ll keep my gun and we will see how it ends
Beeby wrote:
At least in my world no one in my house is gonna get shot by our gun. Guaranteed
RONJ OSE wrote:
But someone who has a gun may shoot you
Statistically highly unlikely, much less likely than me being killed by my own gun. I'll take my chances. They can have my tv.
Gworm
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7/16/2019 1:54pm
Beeby wrote:
Firstly I didn’t say it was possible. I just said that is what I’d like to see. Secondly, they did ban assault style guns in Australia...
Firstly I didn’t say it was possible. I just said that is what I’d like to see.

Secondly, they did ban assault style guns in Australia and NZ did it in the last few weeks and people handed them in and were paid for them. Not every gun perhaps but a heck of a lot. So that’s those guns we’ve discussed that people have most issue with reduced.

Thirdly, if people are suggesting they will defend their right to have their gun with force, they are still breaking the law. The right to own a gun does not give the right to shoot someone with it. So unless you are advocating for gun owners to break the law shooting people (backing up the whole point in the first place) then they’d have to hand them over if it became a legal requirement to.
Ok, you admit it’s not possible, but yet you keep arguing for it?

If you ban guns, what would the penalty be?

The penalty for murder can be the death penalty. So do you think someone that would risk that, would not be willing to risk the much smaller penalty for having an illegal gun??

Or do you think that if guns are illegal, they won’t be available to the thieves?
Sweetd31
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Deer Park, TX, USA
7/16/2019 2:16pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2019 2:18pm
Beeby wrote:
I’ve researched this one before because I didn’t believe it was a law. It is a legal requirement that the head of the household maintain a...
I’ve researched this one before because I didn’t believe it was a law. It is a legal requirement that the head of the household maintain a firearm. Which is funny because the law isn’t upheld whatsoever so there are a lot of people who (like me) would never have a gun in their home. Then there are those that take ‘maintain a firearm’ to be a room full of AR-15 style weapons because “the city tells them to”.

One thing that I got from looking into it was that it’s a rule for the home and doesn’t mean everyone is carrying them down the street so street crime is just as possible as anywhere else and also the % statistics are very much manipulated figures. They use the term ‘violent crime is lower’ but exactly what is recorded as a violent crime is questionable. They also compare some of the statistics to wildly different areas and/or the whole of Georgia. My neighbourhood in Chicago has similar crime statistics to that town and we don’t all own guns, it’s just a nicer area with less crime.
RONJ OSE wrote:
If your a criminal looking to break into a house and it’s mandated that every house has a handgun then you would think twice and maybe...
If your a criminal looking to break into a house and it’s mandated that every house has a handgun then you would think twice and maybe pass on to the next city. That law definitely brings a mental aspect into it.
And what’s up with everyone hating on the ar-15??
I never once have been able to have a rational conversation about it with non gun supporters so I’d love to hear what you have to say.
Beeby wrote:
I don’t think arming every house in a city is the right approach. I’m not convinced it’s made the difference in that city that they would...
I don’t think arming every house in a city is the right approach. I’m not convinced it’s made the difference in that city that they would like you to think. It’s not a new law, it’s been around for decades and if it were a proven working formula then it would have been widely copied. What it has done is added to the guns in the country and also made guns more widely acceptable. The attitude towards guns in this country is alarming to those not from this country. They’ve been normalized.

As for the AR-15, apart from the fact it’s a totally inappropriate gun to own to meet the requirement of ‘securing your home’ in this cities example it’s also the gun of choice of a lot of people that have done mass shootings. England/London is the example in this thread, you try to go to London and get an AR-15 to do mass shooting. Less guns, less gun crime. The statistics cannot be argued with.

Kind of ironic seeing the location you post from. Why dont you worry about your own got-dang city before trying to broad stroke the rest of the country.

The Shop

FLmxer
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Fantasy
7/16/2019 2:23pm
Didn't you hear, " if all the honest people get rid of their guns then the bad guys will lay their guns down and back away from the crime when they realize the honest people dont have guns." Or they said to make more laws for the honest people and then miraculously the bad guys will all of a sudden decide to follow the old laws and the new ones too. I mean of coarse it's all so logical. Not at all. And the USA is so far past a gun ban. Do you realize how many guns are out there? There are so many people who buy houses to hold their gun collections. How about enforce the laws already there and stop making excuses for bad behavior. Everyone isn't virtuous.
Sweetd31
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7/16/2019 2:26pm
"I think if you look to Chicago, where you had over 4,000 victims of gun-related crimes last year, they have the strictest gun laws in the country. That certainly hasn't helped there," White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters the day after the shooting.

As of Dec. 25, the medical examiner had declared 539 deaths in Chicago in 2018 as homicides. The Sun-Times has counted 542 murders in Chicago in 2018 as of Dec. 25. The Chicago Police Department has said 555 people have been murdered in the city as of Dec. 23

Great local, district, and state leadership you guys got there. Glad you guys serve as a model city for the rest of us pheasants with our archaic peacemakers.
1
Beeby
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Chicago, IL, USA
7/16/2019 2:28pm
Beeby wrote:
Firstly I didn’t say it was possible. I just said that is what I’d like to see. Secondly, they did ban assault style guns in Australia...
Firstly I didn’t say it was possible. I just said that is what I’d like to see.

Secondly, they did ban assault style guns in Australia and NZ did it in the last few weeks and people handed them in and were paid for them. Not every gun perhaps but a heck of a lot. So that’s those guns we’ve discussed that people have most issue with reduced.

Thirdly, if people are suggesting they will defend their right to have their gun with force, they are still breaking the law. The right to own a gun does not give the right to shoot someone with it. So unless you are advocating for gun owners to break the law shooting people (backing up the whole point in the first place) then they’d have to hand them over if it became a legal requirement to.
Gworm wrote:
Ok, you admit it’s not possible, but yet you keep arguing for it? If you ban guns, what would the penalty be? The penalty for murder...
Ok, you admit it’s not possible, but yet you keep arguing for it?

If you ban guns, what would the penalty be?

The penalty for murder can be the death penalty. So do you think someone that would risk that, would not be willing to risk the much smaller penalty for having an illegal gun??

Or do you think that if guns are illegal, they won’t be available to the thieves?
Its called a discussion. I think they need better control of guns. Something that is totally people, especially if people change their attitude towards them. Its been done in other countries so why not this one?

I said if I had my way I'd ban them, I didn't say anything about taking your gun. If I had my way there would also be no cancer, common cold, war or candy crush. But we can't have it all
Beeby
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7/16/2019 2:28pm
Sweetd31 wrote:
Kind of ironic seeing the location you post from. Why dont you worry about your own got-dang city before trying to broad stroke the rest of...
Kind of ironic seeing the location you post from. Why dont you worry about your own got-dang city before trying to broad stroke the rest of the country.
Yep, I post from Chicago. Famous for having a LOT of guns and a lot of gun crime. Odd that...
Beeby
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7/16/2019 2:31pm
FLmxer wrote:
Didn't you hear, " if all the honest people get rid of their guns then the bad guys will lay their guns down and back away...
Didn't you hear, " if all the honest people get rid of their guns then the bad guys will lay their guns down and back away from the crime when they realize the honest people dont have guns." Or they said to make more laws for the honest people and then miraculously the bad guys will all of a sudden decide to follow the old laws and the new ones too. I mean of coarse it's all so logical. Not at all. And the USA is so far past a gun ban. Do you realize how many guns are out there? There are so many people who buy houses to hold their gun collections. How about enforce the laws already there and stop making excuses for bad behavior. Everyone isn't virtuous.
So, we have so many guns and so much gun crime lets just give up and get a shit load more and hope things get better? Come on...

The point is, you make guns less readily available the gun deaths reduce.

But yeah, also they banned guns in the UK and the gun crime dropped. Guns are less readily available, so people can't get them as easily. I am not saying that they don't commit crimes using a new weapon of choice, but its a lot harder to stab 50 people in a theater than it is to shoot them.
Beeby
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7/16/2019 2:33pm
Sweetd31 wrote:
"I think if you look to Chicago, where you had over 4,000 victims of gun-related crimes last year, they have the strictest gun laws in the...
"I think if you look to Chicago, where you had over 4,000 victims of gun-related crimes last year, they have the strictest gun laws in the country. That certainly hasn't helped there," White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters the day after the shooting.

As of Dec. 25, the medical examiner had declared 539 deaths in Chicago in 2018 as homicides. The Sun-Times has counted 542 murders in Chicago in 2018 as of Dec. 25. The Chicago Police Department has said 555 people have been murdered in the city as of Dec. 23

Great local, district, and state leadership you guys got there. Glad you guys serve as a model city for the rest of us pheasants with our archaic peacemakers.
Yep, Chicago has a gun crime issue and a lot of guns. The gun laws might be strict, but they are shit. You try to get a gun legally in Chicago. Then repeat the same process in London and see if you still think Chicago's laws are strict.
7/16/2019 3:21pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2019 5:22pm
Beeby wrote:
So, we have so many guns and so much gun crime lets just give up and get a shit load more and hope things get better...
So, we have so many guns and so much gun crime lets just give up and get a shit load more and hope things get better? Come on...

The point is, you make guns less readily available the gun deaths reduce.

But yeah, also they banned guns in the UK and the gun crime dropped. Guns are less readily available, so people can't get them as easily. I am not saying that they don't commit crimes using a new weapon of choice, but its a lot harder to stab 50 people in a theater than it is to shoot them.
Guns aren't banned completely in the UK, I own many rifles and a few of the handgun types still legal on the mainland (the latter mostly being muzzle loaders). The last major ban we had was in 1996/7 following the Dunblane massacre. The then in power Conservative party banned all centrefire breech fed handguns and then, a year later with Labour back in power, they came after .22RF and banned those too (despite the fact .22RF handguns have the least muzzle energy and weren't used). In NI they refused via the Good Friday Agreement, and thus all handguns remain legal today.

Following the ban gun crime rose sharply for the next 10 yrs, it then went back down again for next 10 and over the last 3 - 4 has started to increase (along with knife and acid attacks of course), actually increasing sharply by 23% over 2016/17. So the data is hardly conclusive one way or the other. In NI not only do they permit handguns but firearm ownership is much higher per capita. Gun crime via legal ownership is extremely rare - I believe broadly similar to the mainland.

Again, the real difference between the UK (or any other western country - many of which allow the same firearms and in comparatively large numbers) and America isn't the bans, it's the vetting. The problem is that the U.S is so far gone, it's in such a different situation to any other western example, that what perhaps works in say France etc, has almost zero chance of working in America (imo). edit.
Sweetd31
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7/16/2019 4:56pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2019 4:56pm
Beeby wrote:
Yep, Chicago has a gun crime issue and a lot of guns. The gun laws might be strict, but they are shit. You try to get...
Yep, Chicago has a gun crime issue and a lot of guns. The gun laws might be strict, but they are shit. You try to get a gun legally in Chicago. Then repeat the same process in London and see if you still think Chicago's laws are strict.
Then maybe you can grasp the fact that your true influence on this earth is within a +/- 25 mile radius of your home. Trying to globalize the earth or mandate United States policy with your feelings is not going to solve a dang thing. Worrying about the way another country or state chooses to run its government will have no impact on your immediate life, nor will you have an impact on it. Your community begins in your own household and expands outward from there.

I suggest you start with what impacts you can improve in your own home, and then shift your focus to the epidemic of poverty and crime in Chicago. After all, the world that you live in is right in between your two eyeballs. Hearing about murder in the streets of London albeit sad, makes no immediate impact on myself, nor the community I live in.

When you speak of a country of high crime, you are generalizing, and nobody likes generalizations. Cities need be judged on a case by case basis.
Beeby
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7/16/2019 5:23pm
Sweetd31 wrote:
Then maybe you can grasp the fact that your true influence on this earth is within a +/- 25 mile radius of your home. Trying to...
Then maybe you can grasp the fact that your true influence on this earth is within a +/- 25 mile radius of your home. Trying to globalize the earth or mandate United States policy with your feelings is not going to solve a dang thing. Worrying about the way another country or state chooses to run its government will have no impact on your immediate life, nor will you have an impact on it. Your community begins in your own household and expands outward from there.

I suggest you start with what impacts you can improve in your own home, and then shift your focus to the epidemic of poverty and crime in Chicago. After all, the world that you live in is right in between your two eyeballs. Hearing about murder in the streets of London albeit sad, makes no immediate impact on myself, nor the community I live in.

When you speak of a country of high crime, you are generalizing, and nobody likes generalizations. Cities need be judged on a case by case basis.
That may be your outlook on life and you are entitled to it. I don’t agree.

You won’t change a whole countries issues (and gun crime is a national issue not just a local one) with baby steps and shaking hands with local people. To be clear here though I am not trying to control or mandate anything. I was asked why I called out the AR-15 and I replied. I then said if I had my way all guns would be banned. No one is going to listen to ‘my way’ but we are all entitled to have our opinion. It doesn’t mean I’ve tried to control yours.

London is relevant because it’s a massive city, with a population greater than the likes of Chicago which has a better policy on gun control or ownership and does not have the gun crime that US cities far smaller than it have.
CM_84
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7/16/2019 6:19pm
I am pretty sure this discussion has been had roughly 500 times on this forum.
Nobody is changing anyone else’s mind so let’s all save our time.
1
wwdiii
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8/7/2019 3:00pm
Pretty sure Knives are illegal in England. I think their kitchen knives have round points. But I may be mistaken.

I hate to see any kind of violance, People aint right anymore.

Barrett57
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8/8/2019 12:03am
wwdiii wrote:
Pretty sure Knives are illegal in England. I think their kitchen knives have round points. But I may be mistaken. I hate to see any kind...
Pretty sure Knives are illegal in England. I think their kitchen knives have round points. But I may be mistaken.

I hate to see any kind of violance, People aint right anymore.

Yeah, every knife over here is registered and you have to through pretty stringent test to get a license. I only have a single knife as that's all I'm licensed for, crazy stuff hey.
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colintrax
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8/8/2019 12:07am
Barrett57 wrote:
Yeah, every knife over here is registered and you have to through pretty stringent test to get a license. I only have a single knife as...
Yeah, every knife over here is registered and you have to through pretty stringent test to get a license. I only have a single knife as that's all I'm licensed for, crazy stuff hey.
That sucks. I alternate between 3 knives that I carry everywhere, and then I have other random knives. Hell I keep one in my first aid kit.
colintrax
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8/8/2019 12:09am
Seems you were being disingenuous then. Because everyone around here knows that joke law isnt enforced and plays zero role in kennesaws crime rate.

Btw not all of us lefties are so bad. You might find a few of us at the track, or range Wink
Falcon
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8/8/2019 7:34am
...Ask her if she has a driver's license. She must like seeing dead kids if so.
1
RONJ OSE
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8/8/2019 7:53am
Falcon wrote:
...Ask her if she has a driver's license. She must like seeing dead kids if so.
I’m confused?
8/8/2019 1:11pm
He’s saying more kids die in a car than at the business end of a semi automatic weapon.
Falcon
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8/8/2019 3:19pm
He’s saying more kids die in a car than at the business end of a semi automatic weapon.
Yep. Wink Far more.
plowboy
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8/8/2019 5:23pm
wwdiii wrote:
Pretty sure Knives are illegal in England. I think their kitchen knives have round points. But I may be mistaken. I hate to see any kind...
Pretty sure Knives are illegal in England. I think their kitchen knives have round points. But I may be mistaken.

I hate to see any kind of violance, People aint right anymore.

Barrett57 wrote:
Yeah, every knife over here is registered and you have to through pretty stringent test to get a license. I only have a single knife as...
Yeah, every knife over here is registered and you have to through pretty stringent test to get a license. I only have a single knife as that's all I'm licensed for, crazy stuff hey.
Does that Tinker guy still cruise the streets of England? You know the dude. When he drives down your street everyone has to bring out their knives so he can make sure they're dull enough to be legal. He sings that little ditty..."Bring out ya knives, bring out ya knives, bring out ya knives you 'orrible, bloodthirsty, bastards. If ya blades too sharp, I'll dull it right up I will...and if you don't pay me I'll call the old Bill".
1
Barrett57
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8/9/2019 1:15am
plowboy wrote:
Does that Tinker guy still cruise the streets of England? You know the dude. When he drives down your street everyone has to bring out their...
Does that Tinker guy still cruise the streets of England? You know the dude. When he drives down your street everyone has to bring out their knives so he can make sure they're dull enough to be legal. He sings that little ditty..."Bring out ya knives, bring out ya knives, bring out ya knives you 'orrible, bloodthirsty, bastards. If ya blades too sharp, I'll dull it right up I will...and if you don't pay me I'll call the old Bill".
I see you know full well the tyranny of the British state and all of it's nefarious agents.
8/9/2019 4:30am
“Have you met my mate Stanley?”

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