MXLARGE: MXdN & Team USA

Motofinne
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7/22/2019 2:29am
kiwifan wrote:
I think this is USA's year to win it....call it wishful thinking if you like, personally I like to be a little more positive
Motofinne wrote:
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now. It kind of depends on what team France and...
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now.

It kind of depends on what team France and Netherlands can field.
On a sand track? yeah wishful thinkingLaughing last year was the US chance and they blew it.
Are USA the favorites? No.

But i can absolutely see USA on the top step of the podium if a few things fall in their favor. The injury list in GPs is gnarly, there wont be many teams capable of winning.
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David934
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7/22/2019 2:42am
kiwifan wrote:
I think this is USA's year to win it....call it wishful thinking if you like, personally I like to be a little more positive
Motofinne wrote:
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now. It kind of depends on what team France and...
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now.

It kind of depends on what team France and Netherlands can field.
Dont forget in last deep sand MXoN race Lommel 2012 Bagget was lapped twice and Barcia once.
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Motofinne
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7/22/2019 2:45am
kiwifan wrote:
I think this is USA's year to win it....call it wishful thinking if you like, personally I like to be a little more positive
Motofinne wrote:
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now. It kind of depends on what team France and...
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now.

It kind of depends on what team France and Netherlands can field.
David934 wrote:
Dont forget in last deep sand MXoN race Lommel 2012 Bagget was lapped twice and Barcia once.
I know but Baggett has never been good at this race and i would imagine that Assen is "easier" than Lommel?
GODZILLA
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7/22/2019 3:30am
Well, first year they organized the Assen GP, the skies went wide open, the track was drowned and even Herlings was struggling.
Not what I would call easier than Lommel.
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The Shop

Motofinne
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7/22/2019 3:32am
I'm in the small minority but i will tell all of you "i told you so" when USA stands on the podium Wink
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David934
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7/22/2019 4:44am
Team France can be incredibly strong - Febvre, Paulin, Vialle, Musquin, Ferrandis..
Team Netherland - Herlings, Coldenhoff, Vlaanderen
Team Switzerland - Seewer, Tonus and?
Team GBR - Anstie, Searle, Watson
Team Belgium - Horebeek, Lieber, Geerts
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agn5009
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7/22/2019 5:33am
David934 wrote:
Team France can be incredibly strong - Febvre, Paulin, Vialle, Musquin, Ferrandis.. Team Netherland - Herlings, Coldenhoff, Vlaanderen Team Switzerland - Seewer, Tonus and? Team GBR...
Team France can be incredibly strong - Febvre, Paulin, Vialle, Musquin, Ferrandis..
Team Netherland - Herlings, Coldenhoff, Vlaanderen
Team Switzerland - Seewer, Tonus and?
Team GBR - Anstie, Searle, Watson
Team Belgium - Horebeek, Lieber, Geerts
A couple of those guys are injured and may not be racing. And there’s no way Musquin or Ferrandis are going. Ferrandis has actually already said no.

The Netherlands has to be huge favorites. That’s a really good team, especially at a track like Assen. We all know what Herlings and Coldenhoff can do in the sand. Vlaanderen can run up front too.

The only issue with most teams is if they lose one rider then they’re done. Team USA has a big advantage due to having multiple solid guys to choose from. We have Tomac, Osborne, Webb, Anderson, Barcia, Plessinger, Savatgy, Baggett etc. can all those guys win? No, probably not. But they can all be very solid and finish respectably. No other countries have that option. The really crazy thing is that’s just the 450 crop. We have plenty more in the 250 class.
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Ranman68
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7/22/2019 7:38am
I lost all interest in your post and stopped reading when I got to “left U.S. riders with the worst gate picks on an [b]unfamiliar[/b] gate”...
I lost all interest in your post and stopped reading when I got to “left U.S. riders with the worst gate picks on an unfamiliar gate”

Why? Why?? Why would you ruin your credibility and say something like that??
Ranman68 wrote:
I'm stating facts and circumstances that would play a role in the outcome for any team. Nothing more. I'm not pretending to know what the results...
I'm stating facts and circumstances that would play a role in the outcome for any team. Nothing more. I'm not pretending to know what the results would have been under different circumstances or claiming they would have been better.
The reason I say these things is because MX Large is using the final results of these two mxon events without mentioning legit factors to proclaim ama riders as inferior and maybe having a shot a 5-10th place finish in the 2019 mxon at best. That is ludicrous.
Are you saying we didn't have a mechanical/dnf in qualifying? That we didn't have lousy gate picks? That our riders were actually familiar with the starting gate at 2018 mxon? What?
This wasn't making excuses for u.s. results. It's just pointing out WHY MX Large is ridiciculous to discount the u.s. as contenders for anything better than a top 5, and I think they know this.
Sorry you lost interest at that point, but I'm good with everything I said.
No, what I’m saying is that if the start was unfamiliar to the US riders, it was indeed unfamiliar to every other rider at the event...
No, what I’m saying is that if the start was unfamiliar to the US riders, it was indeed unfamiliar to every other rider at the event! As was every corner, jump, even the venue.
It was an mxgp style starting gate, which is different than the ones used in ama supercross. GP riders were use to starting off that style of gate where ama riders weren't. How much different the gates were or what difference that made (if any), I dont know or claim to know.
The point in everything I said, was only to illustrate how absurd it is for an mx media outlet to post an article that proclaims the u.s. is a 5-10 place at best. That's ignorant, and especially ignorant to base it solely on the last two mxon events. None of it was to make excuses for team USA. Things happen as they do at mxon events and outcomes are what they are. It can be good or bad for any team. The article shows the ignorance of MX Large or their bias. Not sure which.
Additionally, it's not cool for MX Large to generalize American mx media based on opinions or comments from one or two people in the American media. The article was shit on every level, and typical of MX Large when it comes to the American motocross scene.
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Ranman68
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7/22/2019 7:46am
kiwifan wrote:
I think this is USA's year to win it....call it wishful thinking if you like, personally I like to be a little more positive
Motofinne wrote:
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now. It kind of depends on what team France and...
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now.

It kind of depends on what team France and Netherlands can field.
David934 wrote:
Dont forget in last deep sand MXoN race Lommel 2012 Bagget was lapped twice and Barcia once.
Barcia got 3rd in the final moto and the u.s. got 3rd overall, so don't forget the 95 percent of GP riders who were lapped by Herlings before he got to the U.S. boys
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Press516
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7/22/2019 7:57am
kiwifan wrote:
I think this is USA's year to win it....call it wishful thinking if you like, personally I like to be a little more positive
Motofinne wrote:
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now. It kind of depends on what team France and...
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now.

It kind of depends on what team France and Netherlands can field.
David934 wrote:
Dont forget in last deep sand MXoN race Lommel 2012 Bagget was lapped twice and Barcia once.
And the year before that? The USA was finishing up a 7 in a row win streak... The "history" plays a lot less in this than you think.
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baxterj787
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7/22/2019 11:45am
I don't think USA will be in contention for individual Moto wins. I do think we will be in contention for Top 3 O/A. As stated above, this depends on what kind of TEAM the other countries can assemble.

Either way, I am looking forward to it.
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kage173
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7/22/2019 12:31pm
This is all misplaced criticism. Who cares what some journo from Euro thinks? We should be frustrated about our own current situation and figuring out how to change it and win (or at least podium). Bitching about the schedule isn't accomplishing anything. The schedule did not impact the result last year.

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Phil109
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7/22/2019 1:14pm
We will win it again soon. Our team is always at least the second strongest team on paper besides France sometime. It takes a lot of things to fall into place to grab that win. That’s what makes it so cool to watch. It’s a shame people and riders think we shouldn’t race it just because our chances of winning are slim. If anything Assen is a badass place to go race and prove we aren’t a bunch of pussies. Go over there and win or podium and be proud. I really hope our A team goes. Send em over a few weeks early and let em train in that shit. I think if tomac can go beast mode he can hang with anyone there besides a healthy Herlings.
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Lucifa.
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7/22/2019 1:31pm
Should the USA send a team? Hell Yeah!! Should it be at sh*t hole track that is biast to sand riders? Fu#k No! Unless of course...
Should the USA send a team?
Hell Yeah!!
Should it be at sh*t hole track that is biast to sand riders?
Fu#k No! Unless of course it's held at a track next year that is biast for other riders.
You mean like Redbud? That was the type of track that catered for all riders.
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Lucifa.
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7/22/2019 1:33pm
Phil109 wrote:
We will win it again soon. Our team is always at least the second strongest team on paper besides France sometime. It takes a lot of...
We will win it again soon. Our team is always at least the second strongest team on paper besides France sometime. It takes a lot of things to fall into place to grab that win. That’s what makes it so cool to watch. It’s a shame people and riders think we shouldn’t race it just because our chances of winning are slim. If anything Assen is a badass place to go race and prove we aren’t a bunch of pussies. Go over there and win or podium and be proud. I really hope our A team goes. Send em over a few weeks early and let em train in that shit. I think if tomac can go beast mode he can hang with anyone there besides a healthy Herlings.
AfuckingMerica my friend!
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7/22/2019 1:41pm
David934 wrote:
Team France can be incredibly strong - Febvre, Paulin, Vialle, Musquin, Ferrandis.. Team Netherland - Herlings, Coldenhoff, Vlaanderen Team Switzerland - Seewer, Tonus and? Team GBR...
Team France can be incredibly strong - Febvre, Paulin, Vialle, Musquin, Ferrandis..
Team Netherland - Herlings, Coldenhoff, Vlaanderen
Team Switzerland - Seewer, Tonus and?
Team GBR - Anstie, Searle, Watson
Team Belgium - Horebeek, Lieber, Geerts
Team GBR, Anstie, Simpson and Watson
Searle has already said Simmo and Anstie are better sand riders
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Excaliburbmx
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7/22/2019 2:31pm
Should the USA send a team? Hell Yeah!! Should it be at sh*t hole track that is biast to sand riders? Fu#k No! Unless of course...
Should the USA send a team?
Hell Yeah!!
Should it be at sh*t hole track that is biast to sand riders?
Fu#k No! Unless of course it's held at a track next year that is biast for other riders.
Lucifa. wrote:
You mean like Redbud? That was the type of track that catered for all riders.
It was our team didn’t do well in the mud. Simple as Tomac on a new bike and just a week after mec.

The mud changed the race. We got what we did and that is that. But the mud race hurt our team more.
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David934
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7/22/2019 3:20pm
If Team Switzerland have good 250 rider, they are favorites for good result - Seewer, Tonus are sure, who is currently best 250 rider - Kilian Auberson?
philG
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7/22/2019 3:59pm
Motofinne wrote:
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now. It kind of depends on what team France and...
I think your chances of winning is way, way higher than what the majority thinks right now.

It kind of depends on what team France and Netherlands can field.
David934 wrote:
Dont forget in last deep sand MXoN race Lommel 2012 Bagget was lapped twice and Barcia once.
Motofinne wrote:
I know but Baggett has never been good at this race and i would imagine that Assen is "easier" than Lommel?
Assen makes Lommel look like Southwick..

Baggett has never ridden at the Nations and not got lapped.

Assen is a shit venue, doesnt deserve this race, only thing that is going to decide this is who can field a fit team.

If Herlings is fit, nobody will touch him,,, Cairoli is out, Desalle is out but will be back, If Slovenia can qualify , so you have Gajser in there too, USA could ride out of their skin and not be in the top 6 in any race. cos its that type of track. And they could just as easy win it with 30 points. or 25 . or finish 5th with 20 .

And that is why the race is relevant, And also that is why the US journo's want to paint the 'its not relevant' picture. Its only relevant when you win.

And this is why we race.

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Ranman68
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7/22/2019 5:20pm
David934 wrote:
Dont forget in last deep sand MXoN race Lommel 2012 Bagget was lapped twice and Barcia once.
Motofinne wrote:
I know but Baggett has never been good at this race and i would imagine that Assen is "easier" than Lommel?
philG wrote:
Assen makes Lommel look like Southwick.. Baggett has never ridden at the Nations and not got lapped. Assen is a shit venue, doesnt deserve this race...
Assen makes Lommel look like Southwick..

Baggett has never ridden at the Nations and not got lapped.

Assen is a shit venue, doesnt deserve this race, only thing that is going to decide this is who can field a fit team.

If Herlings is fit, nobody will touch him,,, Cairoli is out, Desalle is out but will be back, If Slovenia can qualify , so you have Gajser in there too, USA could ride out of their skin and not be in the top 6 in any race. cos its that type of track. And they could just as easy win it with 30 points. or 25 . or finish 5th with 20 .

And that is why the race is relevant, And also that is why the US journo's want to paint the 'its not relevant' picture. Its only relevant when you win.

And this is why we race.

Do you think Assen is going to be a tougher track for Americans than Lommell? I personally think Americans will fair better at Assen than they would at Lommel. I can't say that I know, but just based on watching GP races, Lommel seems like it's a lot rougher. Assen seems quite a bit smoother with maybe a finer or softer sand. Hell I don't know. Assen just doesn't look to me like it's as much of an American nightmare as Lommel. Maybe I'm wrong. We will see I guess.
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DonM
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7/22/2019 6:03pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2019 7:06pm
David934 wrote:
Dont forget in last deep sand MXoN race Lommel 2012 Bagget was lapped twice and Barcia once.
Motofinne wrote:
I know but Baggett has never been good at this race and i would imagine that Assen is "easier" than Lommel?
philG wrote:
Assen makes Lommel look like Southwick.. Baggett has never ridden at the Nations and not got lapped. Assen is a shit venue, doesnt deserve this race...
Assen makes Lommel look like Southwick..

Baggett has never ridden at the Nations and not got lapped.

Assen is a shit venue, doesnt deserve this race, only thing that is going to decide this is who can field a fit team.

If Herlings is fit, nobody will touch him,,, Cairoli is out, Desalle is out but will be back, If Slovenia can qualify , so you have Gajser in there too, USA could ride out of their skin and not be in the top 6 in any race. cos its that type of track. And they could just as easy win it with 30 points. or 25 . or finish 5th with 20 .

And that is why the race is relevant, And also that is why the US journo's want to paint the 'its not relevant' picture. Its only relevant when you win.

And this is why we race.

Ok I'm tired of this USA media thinks this race is irrelevant bullshit...this is exactly what that asshat MXDouche set out to do is rile up the lemmings....what USA media has said that Matthes? Langston? on podcasts no less...two friggin people (individuals) that have an opinion....have you read that on RacerX? MXA? Cycle News? SwapMoto????
Now do you see why MXDouche is a piece of garbage and every single one of you took his bullshit bait...
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Nuffsaid
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7/22/2019 7:04pm
Should the USA send a team? Hell Yeah!! Should it be at sh*t hole track that is biast to sand riders? Fu#k No! Unless of course...
Should the USA send a team?
Hell Yeah!!
Should it be at sh*t hole track that is biast to sand riders?
Fu#k No! Unless of course it's held at a track next year that is biast for other riders.
Lucifa. wrote:
You mean like Redbud? That was the type of track that catered for all riders.
It was our team didn’t do well in the mud. Simple as Tomac on a new bike and just a week after mec. The mud changed...
It was our team didn’t do well in the mud. Simple as Tomac on a new bike and just a week after mec.

The mud changed the race. We got what we did and that is that. But the mud race hurt our team more.
Riding in the wet conditions ( mud???) on a familar track is a disadvantage considering every other rider was riding in the same conditions on a track they were unfamiliar with. Yea that’s it.
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7/22/2019 8:11pm
Ranman68 wrote:
Do you think Assen is going to be a tougher track for Americans than Lommell? I personally think Americans will fair better at Assen than they...
Do you think Assen is going to be a tougher track for Americans than Lommell? I personally think Americans will fair better at Assen than they would at Lommel. I can't say that I know, but just based on watching GP races, Lommel seems like it's a lot rougher. Assen seems quite a bit smoother with maybe a finer or softer sand. Hell I don't know. Assen just doesn't look to me like it's as much of an American nightmare as Lommel. Maybe I'm wrong. We will see I guess.
Like any sand track Assen does get pretty rough and it's not like it's an established track with a hard compacted base. They bring every grain in.


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Brett_Clark
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7/22/2019 10:17pm
Hes French....
Brett_Clark
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7/22/2019 10:26pm
I'm with matthes, Langston, ping etc. On not going. I feel that every team that participates in mxon should be compensated for travel expenses 100 percent by youthstream or whatever they are now. Only allow 20 to 25 members all of them are paid for the flights, along with bikes, parts, any other stuff the teams would need. If it's an event that's so prestige I think it's time to help the teams that make it so every nation can compete at a much lower cost to them. Its 2019 and shit is far from cheap anymore.
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Motofinne
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7/22/2019 10:31pm
baxterj787 wrote:
I don't think USA will be in contention for individual Moto wins. I do think we will be in contention for Top 3 O/A. As stated...
I don't think USA will be in contention for individual Moto wins. I do think we will be in contention for Top 3 O/A. As stated above, this depends on what kind of TEAM the other countries can assemble.

Either way, I am looking forward to it.
Exactly. I think you can get far this year with solid results around top-5 in the motos.
HusqFan3
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7/22/2019 10:39pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2019 11:05pm
Putting the awful conditions aside, is it really all that surprising that team USA didn’t perform well in hindsight? Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan of both but look how AP and Barcia have been performing stateside since MXoN. 2/3 of the team we sent are presently fringe top 10 riders...

I’d put money on the following, if all healthy, and sans any mechanicals, to put it on the podium, and yes in Assen...

MX1- ET3
Open- Anderson/CWebb(torn on this one)
MX2- Zacho

Stamp it...
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HusqFan3
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7/22/2019 11:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/22/2019 11:06pm
Lucifa. wrote:
You mean like Redbud? That was the type of track that catered for all riders.
It was our team didn’t do well in the mud. Simple as Tomac on a new bike and just a week after mec. The mud changed...
It was our team didn’t do well in the mud. Simple as Tomac on a new bike and just a week after mec.

The mud changed the race. We got what we did and that is that. But the mud race hurt our team more.
Nuffsaid wrote:
Riding in the wet conditions ( mud???) on a familar track is a disadvantage considering every other rider was riding in the same conditions on a...
Riding in the wet conditions ( mud???) on a familar track is a disadvantage considering every other rider was riding in the same conditions on a track they were unfamiliar with. Yea that’s it.
1) That track was absolutely nothing like the one they’d ridden a few months prior. Personally I’d rather ride a track i knew i wasn’t familiar with than show up thinking i was familiar with it only to find out its completely different. The latter would mess with most peoples heads far more than the former

2) It’s not so much that the weather was specifically a disadvantage for the US(although one could argue European riders are more experienced in such conditions) as much as it just makes the results far less predictable in general compared to dry conditions. Or would you have me believe Glenn Coldenhoff is the best rider on the planet?

Do i think the US would have won had they raced on a dry track/normal Redbud? No, as mentioned above 2/3 of our team has barely cracked the top 10 in any race since MXoN.

Do i think the results would have looked completely different in dry vs wet conditions, yes.
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Ranman68
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7/22/2019 11:22pm
Ranman68 wrote:
Do you think Assen is going to be a tougher track for Americans than Lommell? I personally think Americans will fair better at Assen than they...
Do you think Assen is going to be a tougher track for Americans than Lommell? I personally think Americans will fair better at Assen than they would at Lommel. I can't say that I know, but just based on watching GP races, Lommel seems like it's a lot rougher. Assen seems quite a bit smoother with maybe a finer or softer sand. Hell I don't know. Assen just doesn't look to me like it's as much of an American nightmare as Lommel. Maybe I'm wrong. We will see I guess.
Like any sand track Assen does get pretty rough and it's not like it's an established track with a hard compacted base. They bring every grain...
Like any sand track Assen does get pretty rough and it's not like it's an established track with a hard compacted base. They bring every grain in.


Yeah I know that track is gonna be rough on our guys, and they're gonna have to work harder than the euros because they aren't as experienced in the art of "flowing" around sand tracks. The u.s. riders will just have to flow the best they can and make up for it with nothing but extra grit, more throttle, and determination to win. We have guys that I believe can make it happen. With the right three guys and no bike failures, I think we are as capable of winning the overall event as anyone.
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aees
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7/23/2019 4:34am Edited Date/Time 7/23/2019 4:35am
Assen MXON will not be as rough as on MXGP race days. There is not enough riders and time/racing on the track.

Lommel this year has MXGP, MX2, EMX125, EMX250 class racing the track. That is 8 heat races + quali and practice for each class.

MXON has 3 races + quali and practice.

Pretty much more than 3x the time to beat up the track and that is what makes it difficult.

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