What do you think AC92 docked 2 spots for 1st moto?

7/9/2019 4:04pm
I think there's rules and officials and I don't feel the need to question every decision or non-decision. I like Adam. He got clipped. Onto the...
I think there's rules and officials and I don't feel the need to question every decision or non-decision. I like Adam. He got clipped. Onto the next race.
DC wrote:
Thank you. It's like a pass interference call in the NFL (which is now reviewable, and a bad idea, in my opinion) or traveling in the...
Thank you. It's like a pass interference call in the NFL (which is now reviewable, and a bad idea, in my opinion) or traveling in the NBA, or a shooting foul or whatever... Motocross racing is a very dynamic, fluid event, with forty different athletes having a mile of track on either side of them to accidentally run off the marked course. Slow down, get back on in a safe manner and continue racing. That we can all agree on.

DC
Racer X
Exactly my point Davey. "Fans" have a tendency to see sports through perfect eyes. I'm sure as hell not perfect and I don't expect anyone else to be either. I don't question calls while watching my Buckeyes either. Everyone catches a break, everyone loses calls. Thank you for all you do for this wonderful sport.
VRR7
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7/9/2019 5:10pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2019 5:19pm
Kevin852 wrote:
So let me ask you this CivBars, would you be okay with what AC did to Joey if someone did it to you on a practice...
So let me ask you this CivBars, would you be okay with what AC did to Joey if someone did it to you on a practice day, let alone a race? Just getting on the track from the infield where ever/when ever they seem fit. I know I would not be okay with it in either scenario.

As I mentioned earlier. Make the rule that the have to stop at the edge of the track for 5 seconds and then enter when clear and safe. That way there is a penalty to be paid for leaving the track. As there should be.
CivBars wrote:
For one, AC had no other choice to enter there as that's where the break in the banners was. Much before the apex mind you. For...
For one, AC had no other choice to enter there as that's where the break in the banners was. Much before the apex mind you.

For two, Joey going inside has just as much bearing on this incident as AC not coming to a stop and letting the entire field by, like many of you expected him to do.

If it's a practice day, AC probably would've rode around the inside of the banners on the grass until he was at the exit of the turn and then gotten back onto the track on the straight when it was clear. Remember, grass can be quite slippery.

If it's a practice day and AC did exactly what he did during the race and I was in Joey's position, I would stay to the outside line, like Nichols does and there would be no issue.

If it's a practice day and for some reason I feel the need to shut the door on AC trying to get back onto the track and we get close and I jump out of my line because I know he's coming, then I'd probably just keep on riding as I knew what was in store and I took that risk.

Joey knew AC was coming. There's no way Joey was committed to that line and jumps ship as well as he did.

If it's a race and AC did exactly what he did during the race and I was in Joey's position, I would stay to the outside line like Nichols does and there would be no issue. There's no way I go inside knowing AC is off track and looking to get back on.

Maybe they implement a penalty flag where you have to pull off into a penalty lane and come to a stop and then go? They can put in next to the goggle lane.

Agree - Crown was on the opposite side of the track when AC looked to re enter Crown was not there. Crown tried to block pass AC more than the other way round - Plus the reason AC went off was because he was taking evasive action when Amart ran into his line on the take off - ie Safety firsts. Jmart has crushed spine thanks to Cooper !

Plus AC was not going as fast off track on flat ground as the racer where going on track on ro8ugh terrain. Crown was way back and Amart was on same track position when he went off - So he lost one postion to JM and entered the track on the same time Crown arrive - IE he lost time 2 places - JM and Crown went ahead of him if only momentarily.

Ferandis did exactly the same thing to a KTM rider the week before and the KTM rider was on the inside line when DF wanted to enter - This seems like blow back from Coopers emotional rant more than consistent application of the rules at all times to all riders.

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VRR7
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7/9/2019 5:12pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2019 5:14pm

had2comment
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7/9/2019 6:36pm Edited Date/Time 7/10/2019 8:23am
I think there's rules and officials and I don't feel the need to question every decision or non-decision. I like Adam. He got clipped. Onto the...
I think there's rules and officials and I don't feel the need to question every decision or non-decision. I like Adam. He got clipped. Onto the next race.
DC wrote:
Thank you. It's like a pass interference call in the NFL (which is now reviewable, and a bad idea, in my opinion) or traveling in the...
Thank you. It's like a pass interference call in the NFL (which is now reviewable, and a bad idea, in my opinion) or traveling in the NBA, or a shooting foul or whatever... Motocross racing is a very dynamic, fluid event, with forty different athletes having a mile of track on either side of them to accidentally run off the marked course. Slow down, get back on in a safe manner and continue racing. That we can all agree on.

DC
Racer X
Poor call in my opinion. You stick up for guys consistently cutting inside the markers (there more like guidelines anyway) and now your are sticking up for the ama on a bad call? Joke...
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7/9/2019 6:52pm
VRR7 wrote:
Agree - Crown was on the opposite side of the track when AC looked to re enter Crown was not there. Crown tried to block pass...
Agree - Crown was on the opposite side of the track when AC looked to re enter Crown was not there. Crown tried to block pass AC more than the other way round - Plus the reason AC went off was because he was taking evasive action when Amart ran into his line on the take off - ie Safety firsts. Jmart has crushed spine thanks to Cooper !

Plus AC was not going as fast off track on flat ground as the racer where going on track on ro8ugh terrain. Crown was way back and Amart was on same track position when he went off - So he lost one postion to JM and entered the track on the same time Crown arrive - IE he lost time 2 places - JM and Crown went ahead of him if only momentarily.

Ferandis did exactly the same thing to a KTM rider the week before and the KTM rider was on the inside line when DF wanted to enter - This seems like blow back from Coopers emotional rant more than consistent application of the rules at all times to all riders.

This is where it drives me nuts and why I think at least if it was reviewed later we'd get some more consistency.

I don't care which side you're on, seems like 99% would agree the rulings drive moto fans crazy. Here or social media, RX comments. Everyone is split because of the inconsistencies and the inconsistencies are never gonna improve without process.
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early
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7/9/2019 7:04pm
VRR7 wrote:
Agree - Crown was on the opposite side of the track when AC looked to re enter Crown was not there. Crown tried to block pass...
Agree - Crown was on the opposite side of the track when AC looked to re enter Crown was not there. Crown tried to block pass AC more than the other way round - Plus the reason AC went off was because he was taking evasive action when Amart ran into his line on the take off - ie Safety firsts. Jmart has crushed spine thanks to Cooper !

Plus AC was not going as fast off track on flat ground as the racer where going on track on ro8ugh terrain. Crown was way back and Amart was on same track position when he went off - So he lost one postion to JM and entered the track on the same time Crown arrive - IE he lost time 2 places - JM and Crown went ahead of him if only momentarily.

Ferandis did exactly the same thing to a KTM rider the week before and the KTM rider was on the inside line when DF wanted to enter - This seems like blow back from Coopers emotional rant more than consistent application of the rules at all times to all riders.

"Plus the reason AC went off was because he was taking evasive action when Amart ran into his line on the take off "

What are you even looking at? Amart gave him plenty of room and AC had his foot ripped off the peg before the jump face. It was a good save on his part. Because of getting squirrelly on the jump and going through the banners, he lost enough time that Joey Crown pulled at least even with him, and then AC accelerated down the grass to rejoin at the end of the banners.
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7/9/2019 7:06pm
Crush wrote:
This is where it drives me nuts and why I think at least if it was reviewed later we'd get some more consistency. I don't care...
This is where it drives me nuts and why I think at least if it was reviewed later we'd get some more consistency.

I don't care which side you're on, seems like 99% would agree the rulings drive moto fans crazy. Here or social media, RX comments. Everyone is split because of the inconsistencies and the inconsistencies are never gonna improve without process.
Not every offense is caught on camera like this one. Now, if you want to integrate lit pros on every rider so that you can see time, speed, and position to make a determination later that would be another thing.
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yak651
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7/9/2019 7:08pm
Since DC is chiming in on this thread, what is the ruling on Dylan at Southwick? Is it because no one protested him that nothing was done about his off course wide open excursion? Are teams expected to file a protest from this point forward to have these situations examined. Was it solely up to the official to penalize AC or was a protest presented to look at the situation?
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Crush
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7/9/2019 7:26pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2019 7:27pm
early wrote:
Not every offense is caught on camera like this one. Now, if you want to integrate lit pros on every rider so that you can see...
Not every offense is caught on camera like this one. Now, if you want to integrate lit pros on every rider so that you can see time, speed, and position to make a determination later that would be another thing.
Just another reason the process should be improved.

If it was eye-witness via a flagger does it still count?

Again, probably different overseers by now but once-upon-a-time JT was sent a photo of Jake Weimer cutting the track and told he did this.

I don't subscribe to the theory that "if this happened".... but if AC loses the title by 2 positions because of a seemingly flippant ruling that is at the very least comparable to his competitor's actions the week prior? wow.
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7/9/2019 7:46pm
So why wasn’t ferrandis docked last weekend? This is why people hate the AMA officials... no consistency. They look like a bunch of bumbling buffoons
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Helda
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7/9/2019 7:54pm
shuggs wrote:
If not JCrown who is the flash of blue in corner at about 2:20.

It doesn’t matter what bike sounds like, it’s all about the position
CivBars wrote:
Position? @ 2:17 Joey is way behind @ 2:20 he's much closer. How does Joey make up time on AC if AC is not slowing down?
Lol fucking boom hahahahahaha
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Helda
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7/9/2019 8:00pm
yak651 wrote:
Since DC is chiming in on this thread, what is the ruling on Dylan at Southwick? Is it because no one protested him that nothing was...
Since DC is chiming in on this thread, what is the ruling on Dylan at Southwick? Is it because no one protested him that nothing was done about his off course wide open excursion? Are teams expected to file a protest from this point forward to have these situations examined. Was it solely up to the official to penalize AC or was a protest presented to look at the situation?
My question as well DC, the inconsistencies are what pisses everyone off!
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tingo
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7/9/2019 8:05pm
So why wasn’t ferrandis docked last weekend? This is why people hate the AMA officials... no consistency. They look like a bunch of bumbling buffoons
This is true. No way to prove it, but I also agree with the theory that the penalty had a lot to do with AC “getting away” with his previous off-track excursions. If that isn’t the case, please explain the “incident with Nichols” comment that AC said was mentioned to him while receiving his penalty? Either a specific infraction occurred and deserved a penalty or it didn’t. You can’t just add a bunch of shit up and call it two positions worth. I don’t want to see the racing over-regulated and would prefer that neither AC nor DF (or a bunch of other riders that have done same thing) get any sort of penalty, but the lack of consistency is shameful.
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7/9/2019 8:07pm
tingo wrote:
This is true. No way to prove it, but I also agree with the theory that the penalty had a lot to do with AC “getting...
This is true. No way to prove it, but I also agree with the theory that the penalty had a lot to do with AC “getting away” with his previous off-track excursions. If that isn’t the case, please explain the “incident with Nichols” comment that AC said was mentioned to him while receiving his penalty? Either a specific infraction occurred and deserved a penalty or it didn’t. You can’t just add a bunch of shit up and call it two positions worth. I don’t want to see the racing over-regulated and would prefer that neither AC nor DF (or a bunch of other riders that have done same thing) get any sort of penalty, but the lack of consistency is shameful.
Yep. Bush-league officiating impacting million dollar bonuses.
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Helda
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7/9/2019 8:21pm
It will be crickets from DC now regarding DF doing the same shit the week before with no penalty
DC
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7/10/2019 6:07am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2019 6:07am
Helda wrote:
It will be crickets from DC now regarding DF doing the same shit the week before with no penalty
No crickets, it was just nighttime here. Thanks.

No official that I know of saw Dylan go off the track at Southwick and no one protested before the results were posted, and he though initially did slow down, his banking off that other berm look much faster than it actually was. He was also off the track only briefly, and on the outside. No matter, they will be watching him closer in the future.

Everyone saw Adam go off the track (twice) at RedBud, and this was after off-track excursions at Pala and Thunder Valley that were much more considerable than what Dylan did going over an outside berm.

I am not the referee, and I didn't make either call, but I think they got it right.

DC
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yak651
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7/10/2019 6:20am
DC wrote:
No crickets, it was just nighttime here. Thanks. No official that I know of saw Dylan go off the track at Southwick and no one protested...
No crickets, it was just nighttime here. Thanks.

No official that I know of saw Dylan go off the track at Southwick and no one protested before the results were posted, and he though initially did slow down, his banking off that other berm look much faster than it actually was. He was also off the track only briefly, and on the outside. No matter, they will be watching him closer in the future.

Everyone saw Adam go off the track (twice) at RedBud, and this was after off-track excursions at Pala and Thunder Valley that were much more considerable than what Dylan did going over an outside berm.

I am not the referee, and I didn't make either call, but I think they got it right.

DC
Racer X
Holy cow, his banking off the berm made it look faster than it actually was?? I love what you do for the sport but you should've just stuck with no official saw it. Him pinned using the backside of the other berm was as fast as it looked!
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7/10/2019 6:30am
Helda wrote:
It will be crickets from DC now regarding DF doing the same shit the week before with no penalty
DC wrote:
No crickets, it was just nighttime here. Thanks. No official that I know of saw Dylan go off the track at Southwick and no one protested...
No crickets, it was just nighttime here. Thanks.

No official that I know of saw Dylan go off the track at Southwick and no one protested before the results were posted, and he though initially did slow down, his banking off that other berm look much faster than it actually was. He was also off the track only briefly, and on the outside. No matter, they will be watching him closer in the future.

Everyone saw Adam go off the track (twice) at RedBud, and this was after off-track excursions at Pala and Thunder Valley that were much more considerable than what Dylan did going over an outside berm.

I am not the referee, and I didn't make either call, but I think they got it right.

DC
Racer X
DC – you've just highlighted what drives fans nuts and makes it look/sound awful.

No official saw it. It was broadcast though, it happened, just like the incidents with Adam. We saw it. Fans at the track saw it. I'd guess Adam's sponsors saw it.

There is no provision in the rules for, "well you also did this" or that... the incident is and should be ruled for the incident. Not whether or not he got cross rutted and went off track three weeks prior or forced off the track one lap before.

There's also no provision for off the track on the inside, outside, it looked worse or whatever else.

MX/SX is desperately needing some stewardship in this sort of stuff.

There's probably millions on the line for these guys, and Adam is arguing with a ref in the sun and a random two position penalty is handed out because it's not being reviewed in a vacuum... and just by chance his competitor got away with it the week before no one saw it...

Race review after the race. Officials could watch the race and make changes later. Is an official watching the feed live? Or spotters in the truck?
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7/10/2019 6:33am
VRR7 wrote:
Agree - Crown was on the opposite side of the track when AC looked to re enter Crown was not there. Crown tried to block pass...
Agree - Crown was on the opposite side of the track when AC looked to re enter Crown was not there. Crown tried to block pass AC more than the other way round - Plus the reason AC went off was because he was taking evasive action when Amart ran into his line on the take off - ie Safety firsts. Jmart has crushed spine thanks to Cooper !

Plus AC was not going as fast off track on flat ground as the racer where going on track on ro8ugh terrain. Crown was way back and Amart was on same track position when he went off - So he lost one postion to JM and entered the track on the same time Crown arrive - IE he lost time 2 places - JM and Crown went ahead of him if only momentarily.

Ferandis did exactly the same thing to a KTM rider the week before and the KTM rider was on the inside line when DF wanted to enter - This seems like blow back from Coopers emotional rant more than consistent application of the rules at all times to all riders.

Lol these are two completely different situations
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Crush
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7/10/2019 6:52am
crusty_xx wrote:
Lol these are two completely different situations
As per the rulebook... they're not.

They both went off track.

Both gassed it coming back to the track.

Both came back on in front of another rider.

One was deemed a problem. The other was apparently missed.
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yak651
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7/10/2019 6:56am
Crush wrote:
DC – you've just highlighted what drives fans nuts and makes it look/sound awful. No official saw it. It was broadcast though, it happened, just like...
DC – you've just highlighted what drives fans nuts and makes it look/sound awful.

No official saw it. It was broadcast though, it happened, just like the incidents with Adam. We saw it. Fans at the track saw it. I'd guess Adam's sponsors saw it.

There is no provision in the rules for, "well you also did this" or that... the incident is and should be ruled for the incident. Not whether or not he got cross rutted and went off track three weeks prior or forced off the track one lap before.

There's also no provision for off the track on the inside, outside, it looked worse or whatever else.

MX/SX is desperately needing some stewardship in this sort of stuff.

There's probably millions on the line for these guys, and Adam is arguing with a ref in the sun and a random two position penalty is handed out because it's not being reviewed in a vacuum... and just by chance his competitor got away with it the week before no one saw it...

Race review after the race. Officials could watch the race and make changes later. Is an official watching the feed live? Or spotters in the truck?
Spot on Crush. The other question which I don't think has been answered was the penalty for AC because someone protested or did the officials take it in their own interest to dock him? Also, why 2 positions? I thought at Colorado it was talked about that it would be a 5 second penalty, and now it comes to positions instead of time? Like said above, so much grey area. Why not spell out what the penalty will be? And like Crush said, why are we broadcasting on TV a rider arguing his point at the podium area, shouldn't this be done in an official trailer? And the last issue, at Colorado their were long discussions, delaying the official results. This time the penalty was determined before the moto was even finished? Did AC and Pro Circuit even have a chance to present their case, seems like it was pre-determined result?

One other that came to mind as was going to hit submit. DC said Dylan's wasn't as bad because it was outside. Watch the clips in this thread, there were 2 people walking on the outside that he was going past pinned. That looks a lot more dangerous than AC when all the people were behind the fence...just an observation (oh and if the banners were on that fence instead of along the track, AC most likely wouldn't have been 3 feet off the track, he would've just rode the edge of the track and got back on immediately.
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DC
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7/10/2019 7:02am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2019 7:04am
Helda wrote:
It will be crickets from DC now regarding DF doing the same shit the week before with no penalty
DC wrote:
No crickets, it was just nighttime here. Thanks. No official that I know of saw Dylan go off the track at Southwick and no one protested...
No crickets, it was just nighttime here. Thanks.

No official that I know of saw Dylan go off the track at Southwick and no one protested before the results were posted, and he though initially did slow down, his banking off that other berm look much faster than it actually was. He was also off the track only briefly, and on the outside. No matter, they will be watching him closer in the future.

Everyone saw Adam go off the track (twice) at RedBud, and this was after off-track excursions at Pala and Thunder Valley that were much more considerable than what Dylan did going over an outside berm.

I am not the referee, and I didn't make either call, but I think they got it right.

DC
Racer X
Crush wrote:
DC – you've just highlighted what drives fans nuts and makes it look/sound awful. No official saw it. It was broadcast though, it happened, just like...
DC – you've just highlighted what drives fans nuts and makes it look/sound awful.

No official saw it. It was broadcast though, it happened, just like the incidents with Adam. We saw it. Fans at the track saw it. I'd guess Adam's sponsors saw it.

There is no provision in the rules for, "well you also did this" or that... the incident is and should be ruled for the incident. Not whether or not he got cross rutted and went off track three weeks prior or forced off the track one lap before.

There's also no provision for off the track on the inside, outside, it looked worse or whatever else.

MX/SX is desperately needing some stewardship in this sort of stuff.

There's probably millions on the line for these guys, and Adam is arguing with a ref in the sun and a random two position penalty is handed out because it's not being reviewed in a vacuum... and just by chance his competitor got away with it the week before no one saw it...

Race review after the race. Officials could watch the race and make changes later. Is an official watching the feed live? Or spotters in the truck?
Ever watch a football game and see a call the referee missed? They don't go back the next day and change the score because someone had a better angle of the incident. We reserve the right to penalize a blatant incident but we aren't going to reconfigure the results after we see all of the footage, because then we're dealing with 80 GoPro cams, every team's internal video, every shot from the TV truck, fan-sourced video... That's a slippery slope that doesn't loan itself well to such a big playing field, with a mile on either side to miss a marker.

You can disagree with my opinion as well as the referee's or Adam's or Dylan's or whoever's. It's a fluid, dynamic sport, and sometimes (actually, the vast majority of times) the right calls are made, sometimes they are missed. We had one rider go off the track at Southwick, missed a couple of yellow markers and got back on, but no official was on that spot to see it until it showed up on TV later. But where Adam went off at both Thunder Valley and RedBud was on the other side of the banners for a considerable time. In one case he obviously slowed down, in the other case he obviously didn't. Both happened literally right in front of the referee. He made his call on the spot. I agree with it.

We're on to Spring Creek. I hope both try to stay on the track this time, and if they go off, I hope they slow down. Everyone is watching now.

DC
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7/10/2019 7:08am
Crush wrote:
As per the rulebook... they're not. They both went off track. Both gassed it coming back to the track. Both came back on in front of...
As per the rulebook... they're not.

They both went off track.

Both gassed it coming back to the track.

Both came back on in front of another rider.

One was deemed a problem. The other was apparently missed.
As per common sense they are.
You cannot have a predefined rule for every situation. This is racing and not chess.

Pure luck on ACs part that Crown didn't take the inside line, otherwise they would have most likely both ended on the ground.
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DC
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7/10/2019 7:12am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2019 7:14am
Crush wrote:
DC – you've just highlighted what drives fans nuts and makes it look/sound awful. No official saw it. It was broadcast though, it happened, just like...
DC – you've just highlighted what drives fans nuts and makes it look/sound awful.

No official saw it. It was broadcast though, it happened, just like the incidents with Adam. We saw it. Fans at the track saw it. I'd guess Adam's sponsors saw it.

There is no provision in the rules for, "well you also did this" or that... the incident is and should be ruled for the incident. Not whether or not he got cross rutted and went off track three weeks prior or forced off the track one lap before.

There's also no provision for off the track on the inside, outside, it looked worse or whatever else.

MX/SX is desperately needing some stewardship in this sort of stuff.

There's probably millions on the line for these guys, and Adam is arguing with a ref in the sun and a random two position penalty is handed out because it's not being reviewed in a vacuum... and just by chance his competitor got away with it the week before no one saw it...

Race review after the race. Officials could watch the race and make changes later. Is an official watching the feed live? Or spotters in the truck?
yak651 wrote:
Spot on Crush. The other question which I don't think has been answered was the penalty for AC because someone protested or did the officials take...
Spot on Crush. The other question which I don't think has been answered was the penalty for AC because someone protested or did the officials take it in their own interest to dock him? Also, why 2 positions? I thought at Colorado it was talked about that it would be a 5 second penalty, and now it comes to positions instead of time? Like said above, so much grey area. Why not spell out what the penalty will be? And like Crush said, why are we broadcasting on TV a rider arguing his point at the podium area, shouldn't this be done in an official trailer? And the last issue, at Colorado their were long discussions, delaying the official results. This time the penalty was determined before the moto was even finished? Did AC and Pro Circuit even have a chance to present their case, seems like it was pre-determined result?

One other that came to mind as was going to hit submit. DC said Dylan's wasn't as bad because it was outside. Watch the clips in this thread, there were 2 people walking on the outside that he was going past pinned. That looks a lot more dangerous than AC when all the people were behind the fence...just an observation (oh and if the banners were on that fence instead of along the track, AC most likely wouldn't have been 3 feet off the track, he would've just rode the edge of the track and got back on immediately.
Yes, Pro Circuit had a chance to make their case and they have appealed the referee's ruling.

The referee saw it on the very first lap, went to the TV truck and asked for the replay, got it on his phone and showed it to Adam after the moto. Same thing happened at Pala off the start. I'm sure he didn't realize he was on live TV when he showed Adam.

Funny, in the NFL every player watches every call immediately after it happens on the jumbotron, and we all watch officials "go under the curtain" to watch replays from the booth.

Oh, and the results at Thunder Valley were held up because the protest was about a non-call penalty, not an actual penalty. It could have been handled quicker, and it since has.

DC
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Crush
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7/10/2019 7:16am
crusty_xx wrote:
As per common sense they are. You cannot have a predefined rule for every situation. This is racing and not chess. Pure luck on ACs part...
As per common sense they are.
You cannot have a predefined rule for every situation. This is racing and not chess.

Pure luck on ACs part that Crown didn't take the inside line, otherwise they would have most likely both ended on the ground.
So, just for the record, you’ve agreed with every ruling made the last ten years in regard to cutting the track.

Ac. Cooper. Savatgy. Martin. Hansen. Lawrence. Langston.

Cause they haven’t all been interpreted the same way, so seems common sense is not pretty common.
Crush
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7/10/2019 7:20am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2019 7:22am
DC wrote:
Ever watch a football game and see a call the referee missed? They don't go back the next day and change the score because someone had...
Ever watch a football game and see a call the referee missed? They don't go back the next day and change the score because someone had a better angle of the incident. We reserve the right to penalize a blatant incident but we aren't going to reconfigure the results after we see all of the footage, because then we're dealing with 80 GoPro cams, every team's internal video, every shot from the TV truck, fan-sourced video... That's a slippery slope that doesn't loan itself well to such a big playing field, with a mile on either side to miss a marker.

You can disagree with my opinion as well as the referee's or Adam's or Dylan's or whoever's. It's a fluid, dynamic sport, and sometimes (actually, the vast majority of times) the right calls are made, sometimes they are missed. We had one rider go off the track at Southwick, missed a couple of yellow markers and got back on, but no official was on that spot to see it until it showed up on TV later. But where Adam went off at both Thunder Valley and RedBud was on the other side of the banners for a considerable time. In one case he obviously slowed down, in the other case he obviously didn't. Both happened literally right in front of the referee. He made his call on the spot. I agree with it.

We're on to Spring Creek. I hope both try to stay on the track this time, and if they go off, I hope they slow down. Everyone is watching now.

DC
Racer X
It’s not football tho.

F1 and MotoGp have stewards watching the feed and live notify incidents under review. Actions are taken then or later.

I’m not even advocating that the ruling is wrong. It is almost always inconsistent tho, and it’s not hard to see the other side in almost every case.

My point is, improve the process, negate the complaints. Mx and Sx as a whole does do a lot of do what you’ve always done though...
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Panic_Rev
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7/10/2019 7:20am
shuggs wrote:
If not JCrown who is the flash of blue in corner at about 2:20.

It doesn’t matter what bike sounds like, it’s all about the position
CivBars wrote:
Position? @ 2:17 Joey is way behind @ 2:20 he's much closer. How does Joey make up time on AC if AC is not slowing down?
Helda wrote:
Lol fucking boom hahahahahaha
If Ac traveled farther (ie. going off the track) than Joey at the same rate of speed he would loose time.
DC
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7/10/2019 7:21am
One other thing that everyone seems to be missing: At Southwick Ferrandis actually LOST a position. Watch the video again -- there's a Honda behind him, then the TLD KTM rider. He comes back on in front of the TLD guy, the Honda is already past him.

DC
Racer X
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Crush
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7/10/2019 7:29am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2019 7:30am
DC wrote:
One other thing that everyone seems to be missing: At Southwick Ferrandis actually LOST a position. Watch the video again -- there's a Honda behind him...
One other thing that everyone seems to be missing: At Southwick Ferrandis actually LOST a position. Watch the video again -- there's a Honda behind him, then the TLD KTM rider. He comes back on in front of the TLD guy, the Honda is already past him.

DC
Racer X
So is the official take of the rules the glass is half empty?

Ie, is gaining an advantage relative to the person in front or the person behind?

Plenty seem to take it to the riders track position (the people who want you to stop and turn around),

Others take it as if you got to the re-entry point faster than you would have staying on the track and doing the obstacles (Martin at Millville or Hangtown).

You’ve just cited Dylan so seemingly regardless of his actions he couldn’t have gained any advantage as he had been passed.

So if we had a race horse photo of AC’s front wheel in front of Troll’s, would he have been in the clear because he lost that position first?

Not being difficult, these are literally the types of views you read and hear here, on social, at the track etc.... and it stems because of thre ambiguous writing of the rule and the inconsistencies that people see each time.
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1
7/10/2019 8:02am
crusty_xx wrote:
As per common sense they are. You cannot have a predefined rule for every situation. This is racing and not chess. Pure luck on ACs part...
As per common sense they are.
You cannot have a predefined rule for every situation. This is racing and not chess.

Pure luck on ACs part that Crown didn't take the inside line, otherwise they would have most likely both ended on the ground.
Crush wrote:
So, just for the record, you’ve agreed with every ruling made the last ten years in regard to cutting the track. Ac. Cooper. Savatgy. Martin. Hansen...
So, just for the record, you’ve agreed with every ruling made the last ten years in regard to cutting the track.

Ac. Cooper. Savatgy. Martin. Hansen. Lawrence. Langston.

Cause they haven’t all been interpreted the same way, so seems common sense is not pretty common.
not exactly sure what you're talking about. Maybe you meant to quote someone else. Nevermind.

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