SX200, running WAY rich with stock jetting?

Lasse
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Lasse
Hi!

I have this new to me SX200, which I just tried running today for the first time after a mechanical refresh.( Not touched engine)

It feels like its running way too rich, even with stock jetting, which I don't understand as right now, its unrideable.


It does smoke a bit, maybe thats from the old, very sooted exhaust and silencer. It doesn't look like its transmission oil its burning.

Reeds OK
Powervalve moves
Another choke tested
Tried a #170 Mainjet (Standard is 185), runs with a #170 in the video below

https://youtu.be/wu8lRxe0O4w

https://youtu.be/y6B_XcUlkuY

https://youtu.be/sRkNCRX8r44
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Falcon
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Falcon 4/9/2019 4:30pm
4/9/2019 4:30pm
Is the bike warm? If so, yeah that's waaaaay too rich. It appears to be smoking a lot even at idle, which suggests a closed air screw, rich pilot and/or needle position. If not, warm it up first and then gauge the smoke.
You could also have some leftover oil in the pipe and silencer, which is getting burnt out.
What happens if you hold it WFO for 3-4 seconds? It should clear out a little bit.
What does the spark plug look like?
garagedog 4/9/2019 8:57pm
4/9/2019 8:57pm
crank seal leaking?
Lasse
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Lasse 4/9/2019 10:45pm
4/9/2019 10:45pm
Falcon wrote:
Is the bike warm? If so, yeah that's waaaaay too rich. It appears to be smoking a lot even at idle, which suggests a closed air...
Is the bike warm? If so, yeah that's waaaaay too rich. It appears to be smoking a lot even at idle, which suggests a closed air screw, rich pilot and/or needle position. If not, warm it up first and then gauge the smoke.
You could also have some leftover oil in the pipe and silencer, which is getting burnt out.
What happens if you hold it WFO for 3-4 seconds? It should clear out a little bit.
What does the spark plug look like?
The bike is not warm, I'm shutting it off early as it runs so poorly. Plug is black and wet.

Not alot happens, it tries to get up to max rpm, but doesn't really get there.
Paw Paw 271
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Paw Paw 271 4/10/2019 10:03am
4/10/2019 10:03am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2019 10:04am
Leaking crank seal, float set too high, float valve leaking, crankcase loaded up from not running it hard enough or low compression.

Paw Paw
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Lasse
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Lasse 4/10/2019 10:14am
4/10/2019 10:14am
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
Leaking crank seal, float set too high, float valve leaking, crankcase loaded up from not running it hard enough or low compression.

Paw Paw
Only thing I haven't checked of those is the leaking crankseal, but I don't know how it would make it run rich?
Paul_Pitzonka
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Paul_Pitzonka 4/10/2019 10:39am
4/10/2019 10:39am
Paw Paw 271 wrote:
Leaking crank seal, float set too high, float valve leaking, crankcase loaded up from not running it hard enough or low compression.

Paw Paw
Lasse wrote:
Only thing I haven't checked of those is the leaking crankseal, but I don't know how it would make it run rich?
Clutch side crank seal would cause it to run rich... it would pull oil into the crankcase instead of air
Lasse
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Lasse 4/10/2019 10:41am
4/10/2019 10:41am
Paul_Pitzonka wrote:
Clutch side crank seal would cause it to run rich... it would pull oil into the crankcase instead of air
I might change it, although I dont believe it to be the solution. If it burns oil I'd suspect it to be blue and smoking more?
Paul_Pitzonka
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Paul_Pitzonka 4/10/2019 10:55am
4/10/2019 10:55am
Paul_Pitzonka wrote:
Clutch side crank seal would cause it to run rich... it would pull oil into the crankcase instead of air
Lasse wrote:
I might change it, although I dont believe it to be the solution. If it burns oil I'd suspect it to be blue and smoking more?
watching your videos that’s incredible loaded up, I highly doubt you’d notice if it was leaking with how much that bike is smoking already... If you’ve checked compression, float settings, cleaned the carb etc.. that would be the only other viable option that would create an overly rich condition.. head and base gaskets are cheap and it’s a 2 stroke I would be willing to bet at a minimum it at least needs a set of rings...
Lasse
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Lasse 4/10/2019 1:47pm
4/10/2019 1:47pm
Paul_Pitzonka wrote:
watching your videos that’s incredible loaded up, I highly doubt you’d notice if it was leaking with how much that bike is smoking already... If you’ve...
watching your videos that’s incredible loaded up, I highly doubt you’d notice if it was leaking with how much that bike is smoking already... If you’ve checked compression, float settings, cleaned the carb etc.. that would be the only other viable option that would create an overly rich condition.. head and base gaskets are cheap and it’s a 2 stroke I would be willing to bet at a minimum it at least needs a set of rings...
Can you specify what you mean by "loaded up"?

I'm learning towards a worn needlejet, its consistent with my symptoms, just waiting for a new carb, but will change the seal too. Though other times I've seen leaky crank seals it's been smoking alot more.

Compression is actually very, very good and piston has no blow-by, when checking through the exhaust and intake.
Paul_Pitzonka
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Paul_Pitzonka 4/10/2019 2:19pm
4/10/2019 2:19pm
Paul_Pitzonka wrote:
watching your videos that’s incredible loaded up, I highly doubt you’d notice if it was leaking with how much that bike is smoking already... If you’ve...
watching your videos that’s incredible loaded up, I highly doubt you’d notice if it was leaking with how much that bike is smoking already... If you’ve checked compression, float settings, cleaned the carb etc.. that would be the only other viable option that would create an overly rich condition.. head and base gaskets are cheap and it’s a 2 stroke I would be willing to bet at a minimum it at least needs a set of rings...
Lasse wrote:
Can you specify what you mean by "loaded up"? I'm learning towards a worn needlejet, its consistent with my symptoms, just waiting for a new carb...
Can you specify what you mean by "loaded up"?

I'm learning towards a worn needlejet, its consistent with my symptoms, just waiting for a new carb, but will change the seal too. Though other times I've seen leaky crank seals it's been smoking alot more.

Compression is actually very, very good and piston has no blow-by, when checking through the exhaust and intake.
“Very rich, not cleared out” and that’s a possibility, not one that happens a lot but definitely a possibility... does it look oblonged out at all?
Lasse
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Lasse 4/14/2019 11:12pm
4/14/2019 11:12pm
After a new crank seal, #180 MJ, clip in top position and new plug.

https://youtu.be/f_DXSD1V_Bc

Still need to check if its oblonged, doesnt look like it though.
digger
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digger 4/15/2019 5:57am
4/15/2019 5:57am
I would also replace the jet block gasket in the carb. That will also cause the bike to run rich, very rich.
Lasse
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Lasse 4/15/2019 9:53am
4/15/2019 9:53am
digger wrote:
I would also replace the jet block gasket in the carb. That will also cause the bike to run rich, very rich.
Which one is that?
Paul_Pitzonka
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Paul_Pitzonka 4/15/2019 2:56pm
4/15/2019 2:56pm
digger wrote:
I would also replace the jet block gasket in the carb. That will also cause the bike to run rich, very rich.
Lasse wrote:
Which one is that?
This right here could definitely be your problem as well... he’s referring to the metering/ jet block that holds the main and pilot jet... should be held in with two safety/ non tamper torx screws if I remember correctly
Hcallz5
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Hcallz5 4/15/2019 3:40pm
4/15/2019 3:40pm
What needle are you running? I would verify the float height and make sure the float needle is not leaking fuel into the bowl. I ran the RM 250 needle in the carb on my 200 and it ran like a bat out of hell.
Lasse
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Lasse 4/16/2019 11:22am
4/16/2019 11:22am
Hcallz5 wrote:
What needle are you running? I would verify the float height and make sure the float needle is not leaking fuel into the bowl. I ran...
What needle are you running? I would verify the float height and make sure the float needle is not leaking fuel into the bowl. I ran the RM 250 needle in the carb on my 200 and it ran like a bat out of hell.
NOZH needle.

The load up is erratic, so I will try changing the metering block o-ring.

When that is in place I will try the Suzuki needle.
hellion
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hellion 4/16/2019 12:15pm
4/16/2019 12:15pm
That NOZH could definitely be part of your problem. When I was trying to get a 250SX to run cleanly down low that was an issue. The NECJ was the solution there. As far as the 200SX, if I remember right, a 1469g needle was best.

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