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New fork and shock work so good, huge upgrade in front brake power
Couldn't help but post the 250, she got a full rebuild this winter also
It's crazy the hardware Dr's can use to fix our bones
Then once during e rebuild i was able to do this pic:
Lot's of VRP aluminium here
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But i just think the way the italians handle the vintage racing is what it is all about: have your bike built with parts that were able BACK IN THE DAY. Just as it were a timeshift. So you can't put modern forks or shocks, modern,oversized brakes. etc...the bike has to be ridden just like back in the day.
That's why i went out and just lately bought a 3rd (!!) pair of Mugen USD forks which just now get serviced by my suspension guru Poletti in Italy. I should have them back soon and they will go on my latest '89 build.
The stock, right-side-up forks are for sure a step behind in performance. Those Mugen forks though are pretty close to modern forks and comply with the techincal requirements of italian vintage racing. In the end it's all about racing OLD bikes, isn't it? After my thumb injury i did a race against 450s using my 89. Back then still with the traditional, right-side up forks. It's only then that you realize that especially the lower legs sticking out under the axle are a pain. Especially if you are the only one dragging them in rutted turns. I eventually had to change lines to avoid getting stuck in rutted corners. This way i also avoided the biggest braking bumps coming into corners which compensated for the forks deficits even more
I had a hard time to find any data or info on those 89 Mugen forks but finally found some pics in a french guys Flickr account just to prove those forks really existed back then already:
1989 - Frederic Bolley riding a CR 125 with Mugen USD forks and also a VRP swingarm
[url=https://flic.kr/p/XuqHVk]
Regards, Dave
I'm actually going almost as fast with my 89 bikes as opposed to my "modern" AF build. The difference is really minor and what hurt the most was the right-side up forks and the front brake and the curved seat up on the tank which makes for a old-fashioned riding compartment. Other than that - my tuned 89 engine is blazing fast (definitely much faster than a '17 YZ 125), the suspensions now do a good enough job to go fast as well. Interesting though that the old settings my suspension man still has don't work anymore on todays tracks. We now have different jumps, higher speeds, different bumps from the thumpers....seems weird but old setting data just doesn't work anymore. All much too soft. But anyway - these older bikes just tire you out a little more as you do have to hold the handlebar a little thighter as on the modern bikes. But it's really fun how fast you accustom to the older bikes. At first you think no way...but once i actually spent some time on them i got comfy and enjoyed them big time.
Age correct suspension, and really not far behind to modern suspension.
I do have a question on the VRP swing arm as I just purchased one for my latest 89 CR250 build. Do these run the standard bearings and chain guide. Just ordered the bearings but it looked like the stock chain guide will not fit?
Do you have any spare VRP or HRC parts that you are looking to sell?
Thanks!
Most probably though you got one that might fail when used....there's some guys in Italy selling fakes for good money. Just check the picture below what can happen to them...
VRP didn't make too many of those swingarms. And the ones made got used back in the day so if you find such swingarms "new" you can almost be assured they're actually replicas. Most of the time they also use the fused center part of the stock swingarms when real VRP swingarms don't use no parts of the stocker.
Yes - VRP used stock parts as far as bearings and chainguides are concerned.
No - i don't have any such parts for sale.
You might save a few people a large amount of grief. I know of one manufacturer that seems to use the std castings In Italy, but their site, and enormous amount of diverse bike frames and parts would indicate they'd be responsible enough to use decent materials and the appropriate heat treatment for the materials used.
That's a hell of a 'banana' you've pictured, and I daresay it still cost the owner a pretty penny.
This is a close-up of my VRP swingarm (attached to a full VRP chassis...parts me and my dad bought directly from Mr. Carlo Verona back in the day
Check the middle section on the VRP. Unlike the stocker it has no fused center-section:
IF you should need a cokebottle swingarm i'd get in touch with Boris from Bormi Parts in Italy! Bormi Parts can be found on Facebook and he is a true master in aluminium welding!! He races vintage MX himself so he has the same virus we have...Below one of his 89 CR Swingarms...a true work of art just like the real VRPs. He does also nice aluminium gas tanks and airboxes, subframes etc...if you need a custom aluminium part Boris is your man!
He stamps his parts with his own name. No fake VRP stamps here unlike many other parts you can get on the market!
But Nino, that picture of the Banana Bend Swingarm , if you know of the absolute provenance of (the manufacturer) , should have the name of the manufacturer revealed. By producing something like that, and especially if they consistently produce pretty garbage like that, they've lost the right to anonymity.
You'd be doing the right thing in placing a name to the product. But hey, perhaps they are 'connected' , and they could make things very unpleasant for you - as with all of your toys, I'm sure you are well known at the circuits, and I daresay you get to Italy from Switzerland (where you're from?) quite often .....
I'll be doing my own Coke Bottle Swingarm . I've made frames for decades. I make my own 'things'.
I've got a few spare swingarms, one of which I will use the front casting from ( as Bormi do with a few of their's) for when / if I ever do my CR500 back up as a Garage Queen. No, I won't do that, I'll look out for another 500 to do that to. I have a PDS / TTX'd rear end on my CRE500 that I did, that I love.
just curious if is even possible to get a call her as well..
Ty gary
Pit Row
BUT the 144 mod on the HPP is also not your best way to get more bottom as with the bigger bore you need to trim/shave the HPP valves which results in a very poor working exhaust system. By cutting the HPP valve shorter you loose it's effectiveness. Siuch a 144 has a little more bottom because of the bore BUT since the exhaust system is just half as effective the gains aren't that much. And on top of it a 144 won't rev as good as the 125...for me not the ideal setup.
For more bottom on the HPP try the following:
First of all you need to make sure your HPP exhaust system is working properly. I did a long thread on how to set up the HPP here:
https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1207620-honda-125-hpp-setup-tips-t…
Although most will tell you a bigger carb will make for a weak bottom end or even a loss of bottom-end...it's not the case when you combine it with a modified governor! The bigger carb enhances mid-top power quite a bit but makes for a void just before you enter the powerband. So you definitely need a finger on the clutch to get the revs up into the meat of the powerband. I found out that the bigger carb needs a different timing on the exhaust valve. The valves need to be closed a little longer. You can achieve it by altering the preload on the governor spring by adding shims.
What you will definitely need are the HPP valves&guides off the 98/99 model!! These HPP valves are the best for all HPP engines. Regardless of their age (90-99). These valves have a L-shape and the guides have a groove where that L-shape fits into.This makes for a much better seal when closed and therefore enhances bottom end.
Check the picture below where i placed a 90-97 valve (upper pair) next to a 98/99 HPP valve (the one in the front). Check the L-shape and the according groove in the guide!
This is the 90-97 valves which show massive blow-by when closed. They are supposed to actually lower the exhaust port but as you can see the gases flow by anyway.
Here's the 98/99 valves and just where the red arrow points to there is absolutely no blow-by as the L-shape makes for a perfect seal:
To help bottom power you might raise compression some. Easiest way is to use a thinner base gasket for the cylinder. Stock gaskets are 0,5mm....try a 0,4mm which will lower the cylinder and therefore raise compression. Same effect as having the head machined down 0,1mm but much cheaper and reversible
Placing some exhaust spacers also helps in the low-end. Using such spacers between exhaust collector and exhaust pipe effectively makes for a longer front section which helps low-end. Easily done and pretty effective as well. Try adding 3 or 6mm
And obviously you need a good exhaust for low-end. I found that italian Messico or HGS give plenty of mid without sacrificing too much top power. Just stay clear of Pro Circuit and DEP which really don't offer any low-end or mids to talk about.
I had placed a large order all at one time since it was being shipped from Italy to the U.S. and also bought what was supposed to be a Factory Suzuki swingarm but it too looks to be from the same cloth or can if you will... Take a look and let me know your thoughts as all of the other parts, seat covers and plastics were the real deal.
I know from Mr. Verona (VRP) himself that he never used the stock, cast middle section to make his swingarms. Yet that guy sells all of his swingarms with the cast middle section. IF it were original swingarms they would be like 30 years old and would have stayed on a shelf this long too.....and they would show age in some sort. Either colour (slight oxidation) or light scratches...yet these are all brandnew.
This alone to me is proof that certain guys are doing big business by making replica parts and by selling them as originals at steep prices.
Check the middle section of the VRP swingarm! It's not a cast part cut out of a stock swingarm but rather made out of aluminium sheet. All handmade! And that guy sells swingarms readily available for all bikes of the era...when in reality VRP made only a handful of these swingarms at the time. Not it seems they were mass produced and were a item that was used on a lot of bikes - NOT SO ! VRP is a very small company with just 2 guys welding parts. No mass production.
VRP catalogue...again check the middle section of the swingarm:
Nino, Do you know who made these swingarms sold by PC? Are they VRP? They also sold subframes, VRP? This ad is from a mid 80's MXA mag.
VRP also did HRC swingarms back in the day and still did aluminium parts for HRC in recent years.
Thank you for all your help and knowledge I will definitely be working together with my mechanic to acheive this. YOU THE MAN
I don't know enough about Suzuki one pictured to offer an informed opinion.
I really hope you've got a Bormi Parts swingarm, or at least a Properly made one, and Not one of the 'unnameable' ones that Luckynino put a picture up of.
If you look up Bormi Parts, and search through their pictures, you'll see they've done a variety of 'Coke Bottle' CR swingarms. Ones with fabricated front sections, ones with the full std cast front sections, ones with the cast std section, but with machined swingarm bearing housings, ones with cast front sections, but with a weld across them to emulate some works swingarms.
But, your 'seller' is Bull Shitting you on the CR one being a VRP. I Hate Bull Shitting / dishonest sellers - I've been ripped off a few times, and it's made me very, very cynical and untrusting.
I’ve got a eBay search going for the 98-99 powervalves. I was scratching my head about the gap when I took it apart?!? Courious about why Honda would have made them so leaky, kinda defeats the entire point.
These swing arms were definitely made by the same person, like Luckynino said there is no oxidation or signs of wear and age on them, they also delayed getting them shipped for sometime and were probably making them after I sent the bank transfer since they would not do PayPal. So much for buying a VRP swingarm for my CR250 and a Factory Suzuki swingarm for my RM125 as like you I am very cynical and untrusting of folks now. Good money gone up in flames, but hey at least the small parts that I bought turned out to be real.
Steer clear of MASTERCROSS in ITALY unless you too like burning your hard earned cash!
It may be a good product, using good materials, and with the correct post welding heat treatment / ageing procedures. Generally, the materials used will be in a '0' / annealed condition ( though, terms for materials specs do differ around the World) so as to be form-able into the two halves, to then be welded and treated as the material used requires for strength.
I Do hope you've got a good pair of Swingarms for your money! If you have a local Engineering firm that specializes in Aluminium fabrication, or a College / Uni with an Engineering faculty, they could check for materials / heat treatment / hardness specs of the Arms.
That your suppliers appear to be blatantly lying about the provenance of the Swingarms - well, it indicates a significant 'bent' (sorry, couldn't resist the pun relating to the Banana Swingarm) towards flim flamery on their part.
As the name - MASTERCROSS - is now out there, perhaps Luckynino can confirm that Banana'd Swingarms provenance, if it is Indeed a MASTERCROSS product?
It does no one any service here to not name a badly made product.
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