Seely's Crash

Crush
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Crush 2/26/2018 5:49pm
2/26/2018 5:49pm
How far you guys reckon that jump is?
OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 2/26/2018 5:56pm
2/26/2018 5:56pm
F150Motocrosser wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/26/246210/s1200_25bo4d.jpg[/img]

I think it was renamed the VTSB (ViTard Safety Board). Its very similar to the NTSB that investigates airplane crashes and every bit as professional I think.
F150Motocrosser 2/26/2018 6:51pm
2/26/2018 6:51pm
OldYZRider1 wrote:
I think it was renamed the VTSB (ViTard Safety Board). Its very similar to the NTSB that investigates airplane crashes and every bit as professional I...

I think it was renamed the VTSB (ViTard Safety Board). Its very similar to the NTSB that investigates airplane crashes and every bit as professional I think.
Sounds about right



Pirate421
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Pirate421 2/26/2018 7:21pm
2/26/2018 7:21pm
Crush wrote:
How far you guys reckon that jump is?
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are too fast for the stadiums. Sure the guys could opt out of hitting the quad that they had a slim chance I making every lap, but they are racers racing for a lot of money, if the quad is there and they have the hp they will go for it. If the bikes are slower they won’t be able to make that quad and therefore it’s off the table and maybe cole would be lining up next week

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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/26/2018 7:41pm
2/26/2018 7:41pm
Crush wrote:
How far you guys reckon that jump is?
5 feet further than it should have been to quad it!
hititpind
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hititpind 2/26/2018 8:42pm
2/26/2018 8:42pm
Crush wrote:
How far you guys reckon that jump is?
Pirate421 wrote:
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are...
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are too fast for the stadiums. Sure the guys could opt out of hitting the quad that they had a slim chance I making every lap, but they are racers racing for a lot of money, if the quad is there and they have the hp they will go for it. If the bikes are slower they won’t be able to make that quad and therefore it’s off the table and maybe cole would be lining up next week
Why does there always have to be something to protect people? It’s there own choice. Let it go
NorCalRedRyder 2/26/2018 10:22pm
2/26/2018 10:22pm
Crush wrote:
How far you guys reckon that jump is?
Pirate421 wrote:
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are...
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are too fast for the stadiums. Sure the guys could opt out of hitting the quad that they had a slim chance I making every lap, but they are racers racing for a lot of money, if the quad is there and they have the hp they will go for it. If the bikes are slower they won’t be able to make that quad and therefore it’s off the table and maybe cole would be lining up next week
hititpind wrote:
Why does there always have to be something to protect people? It’s there own choice. Let it go
Yes! No one is forcing them to do this, get in or go bag groceries.

jeffro503
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jeffro503 2/26/2018 10:53pm
2/26/2018 10:53pm
psychotronBR wrote:
“He underwent an initial procedure Saturday evening to realign the pelvis. On Sunday, a more extensive operation was performed to repair substantial damage to his abdominal...
“He underwent an initial procedure Saturday evening to realign the pelvis. On Sunday, a more extensive operation was performed to repair substantial damage to his abdominal wall, fixate the pelvis with a large plate and screws, and insert a screw on each side of the sacrum."

Got this from Racer X. This sounds like an absolute nightmare of an injury, i can't even begin to imagine what kind of hell he's going through.

I feel so bad for him, he's one of my favorite riders out there. Heal up soon Cole!
Uhhgg!! Damn that does not sounds like it felt good. Heal up Cole!!
tcallahan707
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tcallahan707 2/27/2018 6:05am
2/27/2018 6:05am
Crush wrote:
How far you guys reckon that jump is?
Pirate421 wrote:
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are...
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are too fast for the stadiums. Sure the guys could opt out of hitting the quad that they had a slim chance I making every lap, but they are racers racing for a lot of money, if the quad is there and they have the hp they will go for it. If the bikes are slower they won’t be able to make that quad and therefore it’s off the table and maybe cole would be lining up next week
hititpind wrote:
Why does there always have to be something to protect people? It’s there own choice. Let it go
The same reason restrictor plates exist in NASCAR. At some point, the tech and speeds surpass anything that can done to limit the catastrophe of an accident. Racing is inevitably going to push the limits of what man and machine can do. That doesn't mean it's necessary to butt up against that line til the end of time. We get that it's dangerous and we accept that as a part of our sport. We all have a choice. The talent level and technology is so high that these guys feel comfortable choosing to take on these higher risks But when the risk starts drastically shifting from broken bones and concussions to life altering injuries and death, it's time to start thinking about slowing things down. It appears that we are at that point in the evolution curve of our sport. I'd be surprised if many on here feel that the enjoyment of seeing a pro hit a big quad quad outweighs the sadness of seeing catastrophic results from a crash. I think we genuinely care about the well being of the riders in our sport, especially the ones who provided such incredible entertain and awe factor.
tcallahan707
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tcallahan707 2/27/2018 6:07am
2/27/2018 6:07am
Crush wrote:
How far you guys reckon that jump is?
Pirate421 wrote:
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are...
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are too fast for the stadiums. Sure the guys could opt out of hitting the quad that they had a slim chance I making every lap, but they are racers racing for a lot of money, if the quad is there and they have the hp they will go for it. If the bikes are slower they won’t be able to make that quad and therefore it’s off the table and maybe cole would be lining up next week
I agree with the second half of that post. And that's insane that he can hit it in 2nd gear. They tend to hit the whoops in 4th and sometimes 5th. Factor in that some can pull 3rd gear starts and I don't even understand how the bike can be geared so high and yet hit that quad in 2nd. Mindboggling.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/27/2018 7:37am
2/27/2018 7:37am
Crush wrote:
How far you guys reckon that jump is?
Pirate421 wrote:
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are...
Listening to pulp right now, bagett said litpro showed quad was 92 feet and he was hitting it in 2nd gear. That’s ridiculous the bikes are too fast for the stadiums. Sure the guys could opt out of hitting the quad that they had a slim chance I making every lap, but they are racers racing for a lot of money, if the quad is there and they have the hp they will go for it. If the bikes are slower they won’t be able to make that quad and therefore it’s off the table and maybe cole would be lining up next week
tcallahan707 wrote:
I agree with the second half of that post. And that's insane that he can hit it in 2nd gear. They tend to hit the whoops...
I agree with the second half of that post. And that's insane that he can hit it in 2nd gear. They tend to hit the whoops in 4th and sometimes 5th. Factor in that some can pull 3rd gear starts and I don't even understand how the bike can be geared so high and yet hit that quad in 2nd. Mindboggling.
Their transmissions are geared differently than ours
rm85racer
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rm85racer 2/27/2018 8:19am
2/27/2018 8:19am
NorCalRedRyder wrote:
Yes! No one is forcing them to do this, get in or go bag groceries. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/26/246387/s1200_7OMP7HEUHQr8ZKobW2HneVhG5RGbdOInFjgmToiBypU.jpg[/img]
Yes! No one is forcing them to do this, get in or go bag groceries.


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Johnny Depp 2/27/2018 9:31am
2/27/2018 9:31am
It's interesting to me that the "cause" of Seely's crash at the point of impact is merely shrugged off as the fortunes of war, and most analysis is viewed with a closed mind and the thought to just ban the 450's or the quads. The landing area was forgiving and smooth, and Seely seems to be the only one who didn't ride it out when coming up short?

Casing a Honda has proven many times to end in a predictable result. A 6oz. carbon fiber glide plate would eliminate the risk, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

DonM
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DonM 2/27/2018 9:51am
2/27/2018 9:51am
Johnny Depp wrote:
It's interesting to me that the "cause" of Seely's crash at the point of impact is merely shrugged off as the fortunes of war, and most...
It's interesting to me that the "cause" of Seely's crash at the point of impact is merely shrugged off as the fortunes of war, and most analysis is viewed with a closed mind and the thought to just ban the 450's or the quads. The landing area was forgiving and smooth, and Seely seems to be the only one who didn't ride it out when coming up short?

Casing a Honda has proven many times to end in a predictable result. A 6oz. carbon fiber glide plate would eliminate the risk, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

There were only three that cleared that jump and Seely was the fourth...He just misjudged it and came up way short...
I didn't see anybody else come up short.

Does the Honda linkage really hang that much further down than other bikes?
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 2/27/2018 9:59am
2/27/2018 9:59am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2018 10:04am
Johnny Depp wrote:
It's interesting to me that the "cause" of Seely's crash at the point of impact is merely shrugged off as the fortunes of war, and most...
It's interesting to me that the "cause" of Seely's crash at the point of impact is merely shrugged off as the fortunes of war, and most analysis is viewed with a closed mind and the thought to just ban the 450's or the quads. The landing area was forgiving and smooth, and Seely seems to be the only one who didn't ride it out when coming up short?

Casing a Honda has proven many times to end in a predictable result. A 6oz. carbon fiber glide plate would eliminate the risk, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

DonM wrote:
There were only three that cleared that jump and Seely was the fourth...He just misjudged it and came up way short... I didn't see anybody else...
There were only three that cleared that jump and Seely was the fourth...He just misjudged it and came up way short...
I didn't see anybody else come up short.

Does the Honda linkage really hang that much further down than other bikes?
Apparently enough to make a difference. Take a look at all of them on a bike stand and judge for yourself. If it is 39mm (it may not be) that is an inch and a half. Would you want to have something the size of a hammer slamming into jump faces when you miss a 90 footer? There is no bigger force ever applied to these bikes.

It's unlikely I will get a rock directly in my eye, but goggles are still a good idea. It's unusual to have a rock hit a front brake master cylinder right on the piston/cylinder yet last year we saw it twice and now everyone runs carbon fiber protectors. If my life and livelihood depended on being able to ride out a missed jump, I would not ride without a linkage glide plate.

Maybe instead of banning 450's and big jumps, we should look at a simpler solution.
DonM
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DonM 2/27/2018 10:04am
2/27/2018 10:04am
Johnny Depp wrote:
It's interesting to me that the "cause" of Seely's crash at the point of impact is merely shrugged off as the fortunes of war, and most...
It's interesting to me that the "cause" of Seely's crash at the point of impact is merely shrugged off as the fortunes of war, and most analysis is viewed with a closed mind and the thought to just ban the 450's or the quads. The landing area was forgiving and smooth, and Seely seems to be the only one who didn't ride it out when coming up short?

Casing a Honda has proven many times to end in a predictable result. A 6oz. carbon fiber glide plate would eliminate the risk, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

DonM wrote:
There were only three that cleared that jump and Seely was the fourth...He just misjudged it and came up way short... I didn't see anybody else...
There were only three that cleared that jump and Seely was the fourth...He just misjudged it and came up way short...
I didn't see anybody else come up short.

Does the Honda linkage really hang that much further down than other bikes?
Johnny Depp wrote:
Apparently enough to make a difference. Take a look at all of them on a bike stand and judge for yourself. If it is 39mm (it...
Apparently enough to make a difference. Take a look at all of them on a bike stand and judge for yourself. If it is 39mm (it may not be) that is an inch and a half. Would you want to have something the size of a hammer slamming into jump faces when you miss a 90 footer? There is no bigger force ever applied to these bikes.

It's unlikely I will get a rock directly in my eye, but goggles are still a good idea. It's unusual to have a rock hit a front brake master cylinder right on the piston/cylinder yet last year we saw it twice and now everyone runs carbon fiber protectors. If my life and livelihood depended on being able to ride out a missed jump, I would not ride without a linkage glide plate.

Maybe instead of banning 450's and big jumps, we should look at a simpler solution.
I'm not disagreeing just saying that only 4 attempted the quad and one crashed on his first attempt where he came up so short his front wheel hit the face....not sure that was the bikes fault thats all.
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Johnny Depp 2/27/2018 10:19am
2/27/2018 10:19am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2018 10:24am
DonM wrote:
There were only three that cleared that jump and Seely was the fourth...He just misjudged it and came up way short... I didn't see anybody else...
There were only three that cleared that jump and Seely was the fourth...He just misjudged it and came up way short...
I didn't see anybody else come up short.

Does the Honda linkage really hang that much further down than other bikes?
Johnny Depp wrote:
Apparently enough to make a difference. Take a look at all of them on a bike stand and judge for yourself. If it is 39mm (it...
Apparently enough to make a difference. Take a look at all of them on a bike stand and judge for yourself. If it is 39mm (it may not be) that is an inch and a half. Would you want to have something the size of a hammer slamming into jump faces when you miss a 90 footer? There is no bigger force ever applied to these bikes.

It's unlikely I will get a rock directly in my eye, but goggles are still a good idea. It's unusual to have a rock hit a front brake master cylinder right on the piston/cylinder yet last year we saw it twice and now everyone runs carbon fiber protectors. If my life and livelihood depended on being able to ride out a missed jump, I would not ride without a linkage glide plate.

Maybe instead of banning 450's and big jumps, we should look at a simpler solution.
DonM wrote:
I'm not disagreeing just saying that only 4 attempted the quad and one crashed on his first attempt where he came up so short his front...
I'm not disagreeing just saying that only 4 attempted the quad and one crashed on his first attempt where he came up so short his front wheel hit the face....not sure that was the bikes fault thats all.
Cole was the one twisting the throttle no doubt as stated. Whether other's attempted I couldn't be sure? BB4 came up short and isn't in the hospital.

Without going into the background and disparaging Honda's, Gajsen (twice), Roczen (twice) and Seely (outside of his MXdN incident) have all had crashes where they cased the bike and got ejected. It is well beyond the point of coincidence.

What is the harm in 6 oz. of Carbon fiber if I am totally wrong?
Kenny Lingus
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Kenny Lingus 2/27/2018 10:44am
2/27/2018 10:44am
Are you being serious? Do you really think a linkage guard would've saved him? Is this only a Honda problem? I have an 18 should I go get one now to save my ass down the road? It's called physics for fuck sake. You know an object in motion tends to stay in motion. He came up short bike slowed down more than he did putting him up over the bars. He got hurt because of the bike coming down on him.

I can't fault anybody for trying to mitigate crashes and injuries but god damn dude.

Pit Row

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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 2/27/2018 10:47am
2/27/2018 10:47am
Kenny Lingus wrote:
Are you being serious? Do you really think a linkage guard would've saved him? Is this only a Honda problem? I have an 18 should I...
Are you being serious? Do you really think a linkage guard would've saved him? Is this only a Honda problem? I have an 18 should I go get one now to save my ass down the road? It's called physics for fuck sake. You know an object in motion tends to stay in motion. He came up short bike slowed down more than he did putting him up over the bars. He got hurt because of the bike coming down on him.

I can't fault anybody for trying to mitigate crashes and injuries but god damn dude.
Yes, as serious as a broken pelvis and torn intestinal wall. As serious as a totally destroyed and rebuilt arm.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/27/2018 10:59am
2/27/2018 10:59am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2018 10:59am
That bike coming back around and spearing him is what caused that damage!
Kenny Lingus
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Kenny Lingus 2/27/2018 10:59am
2/27/2018 10:59am
Explain how Honda's linkage caused it and how a guard would've prevented it.

I'm not trying to be that guy but have you ever cased a jump? If you have you should know exactly what happened.
akillerwombat
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akillerwombat 2/27/2018 11:01am
2/27/2018 11:01am
Seely flew 90ish feet into the face of another jump... nothing was going to save him from that crash.
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Johnny Depp 2/27/2018 11:06am
2/27/2018 11:06am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2018 11:07am
I let this subject die a few months ago. There was a press release a few hours after the last time it was discussed. The details are out there for anyone who cares to research it. This isn't about KYB or Showa or bottoming A-kits.

Riders getting ejected on a regular basis is going to get someone killed. Gasjer was lucky that his wheel and rear fender landed on either side of his head or he could be dead.

The same idea of a glide plate makes sense for any race bike as a safety measure. I'm sure most would rather spend $1k on some pretty custom wheels than $100 to save their ass. If I can help bring change to that then call me what you want.
ToolMaker 2/27/2018 11:07am
2/27/2018 11:07am
Surprised I haven't seen "if it were a KTM it would've broke" LOL
3,2,1...
Kenny Lingus
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Kenny Lingus 2/27/2018 11:18am
2/27/2018 11:18am
Johnny Depp wrote:
I let this subject die a few months ago. There was a press release a few hours after the last time it was discussed. The details...
I let this subject die a few months ago. There was a press release a few hours after the last time it was discussed. The details are out there for anyone who cares to research it. This isn't about KYB or Showa or bottoming A-kits.

Riders getting ejected on a regular basis is going to get someone killed. Gasjer was lucky that his wheel and rear fender landed on either side of his head or he could be dead.

The same idea of a glide plate makes sense for any race bike as a safety measure. I'm sure most would rather spend $1k on some pretty custom wheels than $100 to save their ass. If I can help bring change to that then call me what you want.
Again, how would've it saved them? Physics and momentum will still take over. Those guards are meant to slide over logs or protect linkages in rocky sections not allow you to glide out of a case.

Can you direct me towards this press release? I would like to read it.
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Johnny Depp 2/27/2018 11:30am
2/27/2018 11:30am
Johnny Depp wrote:
I let this subject die a few months ago. There was a press release a few hours after the last time it was discussed. The details...
I let this subject die a few months ago. There was a press release a few hours after the last time it was discussed. The details are out there for anyone who cares to research it. This isn't about KYB or Showa or bottoming A-kits.

Riders getting ejected on a regular basis is going to get someone killed. Gasjer was lucky that his wheel and rear fender landed on either side of his head or he could be dead.

The same idea of a glide plate makes sense for any race bike as a safety measure. I'm sure most would rather spend $1k on some pretty custom wheels than $100 to save their ass. If I can help bring change to that then call me what you want.
Kenny Lingus wrote:
Again, how would've it saved them? Physics and momentum will still take over. Those guards are meant to slide over logs or protect linkages in rocky...
Again, how would've it saved them? Physics and momentum will still take over. Those guards are meant to slide over logs or protect linkages in rocky sections not allow you to glide out of a case.

Can you direct me towards this press release? I would like to read it.
Pick which one you would rather have hanging down from your frame:





I prefer to limit my discussion to prevention as much as possible. Mud raking solves nothing.
akillerwombat
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akillerwombat 2/27/2018 11:31am
2/27/2018 11:31am
Kenny Lingus wrote:
Again, how would've it saved them? Physics and momentum will still take over. Those guards are meant to slide over logs or protect linkages in rocky...
Again, how would've it saved them? Physics and momentum will still take over. Those guards are meant to slide over logs or protect linkages in rocky sections not allow you to glide out of a case.

Can you direct me towards this press release? I would like to read it.
I don't quite it get it either; Cole didn't case this jump... he came up way short.



Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 2/27/2018 11:34am
2/27/2018 11:34am Edited Date/Time 2/27/2018 11:37am
Kenny Lingus wrote:
Again, how would've it saved them? Physics and momentum will still take over. Those guards are meant to slide over logs or protect linkages in rocky...
Again, how would've it saved them? Physics and momentum will still take over. Those guards are meant to slide over logs or protect linkages in rocky sections not allow you to glide out of a case.

Can you direct me towards this press release? I would like to read it.
akillerwombat wrote:
I don't quite it get it either; Cole didn't case this jump... he came up way short. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/27/246493/s1200_cole.jpg[/img]
I don't quite it get it either; Cole didn't case this jump... he came up way short.



Watch the video on pg. 1. The front end KYB's handled it well, at that point he was still upright. When the frame follows, at 0.08 it goes wrong real fast before the rear suspension even gets involved.
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doghouse 2/27/2018 11:54am
2/27/2018 11:54am
Lol. Seely faced a jump man, there wasn't any coming back from that. The bottom of the bike wasn't even a factor, the rear tire was the next thing to hit.
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kiwifan 2/27/2018 3:55pm
2/27/2018 3:55pm
doghouse wrote:
Lol. Seely faced a jump man, there wasn't any coming back from that. The bottom of the bike wasn't even a factor, the rear tire was...
Lol. Seely faced a jump man, there wasn't any coming back from that. The bottom of the bike wasn't even a factor, the rear tire was the next thing to hit.
Agree 100% but some like to blame the bike because its more convenient or the simply dont like that brand...probably because they stopped making 2 strokes

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