Matthes, JT comments on PEDs

SCR
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12/15/2017 10:37am
DC wrote:
"Honest question, if you hope the guys who are cheating (or have cheated) get caught, why not start an investigation?" We don't have the time or...
"Honest question, if you hope the guys who are cheating (or have cheated) get caught, why not start an investigation?"

We don't have the time or money to investigate the past. We can't hire scientists and investigators like crusading French news bureaus and sporting bodies did for a decade in France. We don't have the blood tests or urine samples from before USADA came along like they did for the Tour de France. And we don't have a mandate or subpoena power to challenge anyone's personal health records or anyone suing a rider like they went after Lance Armstrong. We have anecdotal tales and people suspicious of trainers and past champions, but no real basis other than "if it happened in these other sports, then it happened in our sport." And that's not enough for the monumental task that would entail.

But if we did, then we might as well test to see who was riding high in the seventies, on coke in the eighties, on ecstasy in the nineties... Or maybe tear down the motors of every bike after the Production Rule went into effect in the eighties, the suspension of every bike in the nineties, the noise level of every four-stroke since Doug Henry... And should we go back and do concussion testing on Jim Pomeroy? Jeff Stanton? Travis Pastrana? Mike Alessi?

We are doing what we can to build records and data, given the responsibility we now have, but we can't build on what don't have or didn't exist in the past.

DC
Racer X
I don't know anything about PEDs, who did or didn't take them. I don't even know a guy that knows who took them. But I do have enough sense to already understand everything DC says here.

MX sports put testing in place as a response to the concerns. It's not their responsibility to babysit and monitor all the riders 24/7, hire private investigators to go through people's trash cans for evidence, or bust down motor home doors and put people in hand cuffs.

Guess what, at the end of the day the rider himself has to decide if he's clean or not. MX sports has no control over that.

kkawboy14
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12/15/2017 11:02am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2017 11:02am
After 78 pages of debate on this matter in Vital:

Kawboys accessment,
a lot of money is spent on supplements that are legal to gain an advantage and everybody knows it.
Some money is spent on supplements to gain an advantage that push the edge of legality and everybody knows it.

Some riders cheat in many different areas to gain an advantage and haven’t been caught, somebody knows about it, nobody really cares enough to do anything because it would be to costly and hard to catch them.

We all agree then? The Monster girls are worth the money and we don’t care what supplements they are taking, whether it’s silicone or lots of vitamin D
MX Guy
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Fantasy
12/15/2017 11:12am
DC wrote:
MXKing809, unless they have sworn testimony, physical blood evidence and a failed test that can be proven to have not been compromised over the years, I...
MXKing809, unless they have sworn testimony, physical blood evidence and a failed test that can be proven to have not been compromised over the years, I don't know that anything can be done to any athlete post-facto.

And when did the guys say this? Because no one told me, and Jason just told me on the phone he's never had anyone admit this. So which series, which years, which drugs?

I don't think rewriting the record book based on anecdotal/incomplete evidence is wise in any sport.

DC
Racer X
Thank you for your help in ending this attempt at ruining what were great eras for the sport's iconic history. I feel as though people some people just can't let things go!
EddieC
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12/15/2017 11:41am
MxKing809 wrote:
Fair enough. If I misunderstood what was said on the show, I apologize and definitely do not want to put words in your mouth. Steve on...
Fair enough. If I misunderstood what was said on the show, I apologize and definitely do not want to put words in your mouth.

Steve on the other hand was very clear.....

And let me be clear. I am a Pulp junkie. I love the honesty and content that you both provide. The LAST thing I want to do I is get either of you in hot water for saying X or Y while other people keep their mouths shut. In this situation, Steve said he had riders admit use to him in the past..... that’s a huge deal to me.
Matthes wrote:
WTF is anyone supposed to do here, "Hey Rider X, Y and Z...did you take substance B 15 years ago like you told Matthes?" Rider: "No"...
WTF is anyone supposed to do here, "Hey Rider X, Y and Z...did you take substance B 15 years ago like you told Matthes?"

Rider: "No"

Well ok then. There's nothing to go back and test and I have zero proof other than some conversations.

Think about the stories I've seen and heard about cheating with the production rule by different teams. Want to go back on that also?

Chill down bro, you're being ridiculous. There's no proof of anything. Any "investigation" leads to......nothing.
Lance Armstrong never tested positive for PED's.

The FED's asked A LOT of people A LOT of questions and I am assuming threatening a few with jail time if later it was found out that they were lying or bargained for leniency for cooperation.

There is no denying the work ethic of these riders, but lets PAUSE for a moment and THINK about a statement that is common amongst sports.

"NO ONE EVER REMEMBERS WHO FINISHED IN SECOND PLACE".

What happens to the record books if it is found out that there was doping? If an athlete looses out on a championship year after year to the same person and later finds out that that "CHAMPION" doped, doesn't second place at least deserve the satisfaction that HIS/HER hard work and decision NOT to DOPE earned the CHAMPIONSHIP.

Think of those OLYMPIANS that lost out on the moment of celebration, or the monetary gain from such an accomplishment. Those endorsements are gone, book deals gone.

I BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT IS AT STAKE HERE

To say the past is in the past is BULLSHIT!!

If people know, they need to speak up even if it means loosing a friend or being criticized, or possibly loosing a job.




The Shop

flarider
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12/15/2017 11:51am
The 7 years Lance Armstrong won now have no winner. Second did not elevate to first. The record books just show no winner those years.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tour_de_France_general_classifica…

Lance Armstrong was declared winner of seven consecutive Tours from 1999 to 2005. However, in October 2012 he was stripped of all titles by the UCI due to the use of performance-enhancing drugs. The Tour director Christian Prudhomme had previously declared that if this happened, there would be no alternate winners for those years, but this has not yet been made official
500guy
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12/15/2017 11:52am
EddieC wrote:
Lance Armstrong never tested positive for PED's. The FED's asked A LOT of people A LOT of questions and I am assuming threatening a few with...
Lance Armstrong never tested positive for PED's.

The FED's asked A LOT of people A LOT of questions and I am assuming threatening a few with jail time if later it was found out that they were lying or bargained for leniency for cooperation.

There is no denying the work ethic of these riders, but lets PAUSE for a moment and THINK about a statement that is common amongst sports.

"NO ONE EVER REMEMBERS WHO FINISHED IN SECOND PLACE".

What happens to the record books if it is found out that there was doping? If an athlete looses out on a championship year after year to the same person and later finds out that that "CHAMPION" doped, doesn't second place at least deserve the satisfaction that HIS/HER hard work and decision NOT to DOPE earned the CHAMPIONSHIP.

Think of those OLYMPIANS that lost out on the moment of celebration, or the monetary gain from such an accomplishment. Those endorsements are gone, book deals gone.

I BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT IS AT STAKE HERE

To say the past is in the past is BULLSHIT!!

If people know, they need to speak up even if it means loosing a friend or being criticized, or possibly loosing a job.




You can't un-ring a bell.

if it happened it was wrong but you can't relive any moment, learn and move on.
Rhino
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12/15/2017 11:56am
Only 1 guy I ever heard said they did growth. It was on a public podcast. Lots have already mentioned it.

The only weight that holds is that even True Fake nattys never admit to ever doing anything, EVER.
Because their livelihood depends on it to fake and scam the fitness industry.

The ones not needing that, they pretty much post their whole cycles because their livelihood is based on training and providing protocols for their clients.
Walking the walk so to speak.

Johnny Depp
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12/15/2017 12:02pm
EddieC wrote:
Lance Armstrong never tested positive for PED's. The FED's asked A LOT of people A LOT of questions and I am assuming threatening a few with...
Lance Armstrong never tested positive for PED's.

The FED's asked A LOT of people A LOT of questions and I am assuming threatening a few with jail time if later it was found out that they were lying or bargained for leniency for cooperation.

There is no denying the work ethic of these riders, but lets PAUSE for a moment and THINK about a statement that is common amongst sports.

"NO ONE EVER REMEMBERS WHO FINISHED IN SECOND PLACE".

What happens to the record books if it is found out that there was doping? If an athlete looses out on a championship year after year to the same person and later finds out that that "CHAMPION" doped, doesn't second place at least deserve the satisfaction that HIS/HER hard work and decision NOT to DOPE earned the CHAMPIONSHIP.

Think of those OLYMPIANS that lost out on the moment of celebration, or the monetary gain from such an accomplishment. Those endorsements are gone, book deals gone.

I BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT IS AT STAKE HERE

To say the past is in the past is BULLSHIT!!

If people know, they need to speak up even if it means loosing a friend or being criticized, or possibly loosing a job.




Can we start with Vince Young getting his Heisman after Reggie Bush's parents got a new house from USC alumni?

Perhaps the greatest college football player of all time, it's just not fair I tell ya!


12/15/2017 12:37pm
Here is more food for thought. After reading of Chris Foomes drug test failure I decided to see what the drug he was caught for could...
Here is more food for thought. After reading of Chris Foomes drug test failure I decided to see what the drug he was caught for could do...I used a friends Asthma pump ( three pumps only ) and immediately dropped 2 minutes 34 seconds from my seven mile time 57:55...I am not a great athlete or anything. What makes this time even more interesting is that just last evening I did a 10k social run w some friends. My legs felt like trash today and I still smashed my best time on a course I have run for nearly a year. OH NO...NO ADVANTAGE ON USING PED'S...beleive what you will I suppose. That is our right.
That's ridiculous. Now you got me googling, at $20.49 through a pet supply this is in anyone's budget.

WTF are you on about man...?
12/15/2017 12:41pm
DC wrote:
"Maybe thats why he defends it so vigorously...his life has been built on the lie." You're kidding, right? I'm not defending the use of PEDs, I...
"Maybe thats why he defends it so vigorously...his life has been built on the lie."

You're kidding, right?

I'm not defending the use of PEDs, I am defending the reputations of guys who were great on motocross bikes and obviously worked their asses off, and are now getting pulled into the gutter here. If guys are cheating, I hope they get caught, but to just make general accusations against anyone with ZERO evidence is irresponsible and ridiculous.

DC
Racer X



"You take the flak when you are over the target." They say... One thing you cannot say absolutely is that he did not use PED's. You can only strongly assert that he didn't.
12/15/2017 12:44pm
DC wrote:
"Maybe thats why he defends it so vigorously...his life has been built on the lie." You're kidding, right? I'm not defending the use of PEDs, I...
"Maybe thats why he defends it so vigorously...his life has been built on the lie."

You're kidding, right?

I'm not defending the use of PEDs, I am defending the reputations of guys who were great on motocross bikes and obviously worked their asses off, and are now getting pulled into the gutter here. If guys are cheating, I hope they get caught, but to just make general accusations against anyone with ZERO evidence is irresponsible and ridiculous.

DC
Racer X



Honest question, if you hope the guys who are cheating (or have cheated) get caught, why not start an investigation? You run the most prestigious journalistic...
Honest question, if you hope the guys who are cheating (or have cheated) get caught, why not start an investigation? You run the most prestigious journalistic body within the sport, if anyone has the power or connections to investigate, surely it would be RacerX.

I'm not trying to be rude or accusatory, it just seems like passing the buck to say you hope they are caught when you seem to be uniquely positioned to catch them.

Edit: JT and Matthes admitted knowing about PED us on the Pulp show this Monday. Talked about it casually, said it happened in the past.
Rhino wrote:
Thats a little harsh!? One admitted Growth use on a podcast. That said, it's no different than someone saying they drove drunk all the time. Could...
Thats a little harsh!?
One admitted Growth use on a podcast. That said, it's no different than someone saying they drove drunk all the time. Could be true, could be bullshit.

Without failed tests that have been swept under the rug and stuff like other sports, or people coming out saying they doctored the results and stuff as well, it's all just talk.

However, Even Fake nattys will never admit to use. Their whole livelyhood depends on the lie of selling bullshit supplements to look like them.

How do you sell Bullshit Brand Supps, by admitting you're doing 4 or 5 grams of gear per week?






"You take the flak when you are over the target." They say... One thing you cannot say absolutely is that he did not use PED's. You can only strongly assert that he didn't.
Adam43
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12/15/2017 12:49pm
Matthes wrote:
WTF is anyone supposed to do here, "Hey Rider X, Y and Z...did you take substance B 15 years ago like you told Matthes?" Rider: "No"...
WTF is anyone supposed to do here, "Hey Rider X, Y and Z...did you take substance B 15 years ago like you told Matthes?"

Rider: "No"

Well ok then. There's nothing to go back and test and I have zero proof other than some conversations.

Think about the stories I've seen and heard about cheating with the production rule by different teams. Want to go back on that also?

Chill down bro, you're being ridiculous. There's no proof of anything. Any "investigation" leads to......nothing.
I'm sure Woodward and Bernstein would have also said "WTF am I supposed to do" the first time they got a denial.
12/15/2017 12:49pm
bama205 wrote:
They probably smoke weed too.
Such an ignorant and assinine statement. I bet you've never consumed alcohol either?
Johnny Depp
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12/15/2017 12:50pm Edited Date/Time 12/15/2017 12:58pm
Here is more food for thought. After reading of Chris Foomes drug test failure I decided to see what the drug he was caught for could...
Here is more food for thought. After reading of Chris Foomes drug test failure I decided to see what the drug he was caught for could do...I used a friends Asthma pump ( three pumps only ) and immediately dropped 2 minutes 34 seconds from my seven mile time 57:55...I am not a great athlete or anything. What makes this time even more interesting is that just last evening I did a 10k social run w some friends. My legs felt like trash today and I still smashed my best time on a course I have run for nearly a year. OH NO...NO ADVANTAGE ON USING PED'S...beleive what you will I suppose. That is our right.
That's ridiculous. Now you got me googling, at $20.49 through a pet supply this is in anyone's budget.

WTF are you on about man...?
I'm saying I agree and am blown away by your story. Also saying this product is so damn cheap. It's ridiculous is an American expression of "that's so crazy!" but not a sign of doubt.

I just don't see any way to stop the multitude of ways to gain advantage without getting caught, and for Vets and amateurs with no testing, this makes a lot more sense than spending $1k for a titanium exhaust. I have no interest in testing pro's or anyone else, it's just a stupid way to prove "integrity" for what reason?
Most of us have seen the MXA article, stand up if you want to go faster, we agreed, it's just that your thighs were on fire after about 1 lap. Stuff like this makes it possible to do things you never could, including riding without arm pump.
TeamGreen
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12/15/2017 12:57pm
Well, well, well.

Between Eddie C. & a few people reminding folks WAS or WAS NOT said...and a Flarider clearing the air on Davi...

This thread has actually gone somewhat "in the right direction".

Nice.
TeamGreen
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12/15/2017 12:58pm
Matthes wrote:
WTF is anyone supposed to do here, "Hey Rider X, Y and Z...did you take substance B 15 years ago like you told Matthes?" Rider: "No"...
WTF is anyone supposed to do here, "Hey Rider X, Y and Z...did you take substance B 15 years ago like you told Matthes?"

Rider: "No"

Well ok then. There's nothing to go back and test and I have zero proof other than some conversations.

Think about the stories I've seen and heard about cheating with the production rule by different teams. Want to go back on that also?

Chill down bro, you're being ridiculous. There's no proof of anything. Any "investigation" leads to......nothing.
Adam43 wrote:
I'm sure Woodward and Bernstein would have also said "WTF am I supposed to do" the first time they got a denial.
Watergate?

Really?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
bama205
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12/15/2017 1:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/15/2017 1:00pm
bama205 wrote:
They probably smoke weed too.
Such an ignorant and assinine statement. I bet you've never consumed alcohol either?
Haha, That went over your head
Adam43
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12/15/2017 1:08pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Watergate?

Really?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
The point is that sometimes stories require actual legwork.
DC
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12/15/2017 1:11pm
"You take the flak when you are over the target." They say... One thing you cannot say absolutely is that he did not use PED's. You can only strongly assert that he didn't.

And that's why this is a hopeless exercise -- you want these guys to prove that they did not take something, with no proof that they did, just your own suspicion? It's Jacob's ladder, and it never ends.

Good luck with the witch hunt.

DC
Racer X
Johnny Depp
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12/15/2017 1:12pm
The photos below are in no way any accusation or insinuation of PED use. It is merely to show that this sport is filled with tremendous athlete's, among the world's best. I'm proud to be associated with this sport for one because it is so physically demanding. I think we all wish we could have been one of them.













tek14
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12/15/2017 1:14pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
After 78 pages of debate on this matter in Vital: Kawboys accessment, a lot of money is spent on supplements that are legal to gain an...
After 78 pages of debate on this matter in Vital:

Kawboys accessment,
a lot of money is spent on supplements that are legal to gain an advantage and everybody knows it.
Some money is spent on supplements to gain an advantage that push the edge of legality and everybody knows it.

Some riders cheat in many different areas to gain an advantage and haven’t been caught, somebody knows about it, nobody really cares enough to do anything because it would be to costly and hard to catch them.

We all agree then? The Monster girls are worth the money and we don’t care what supplements they are taking, whether it’s silicone or lots of vitamin D
Thanks for info. I was too tired to read previous 11 pages.
flarider
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12/15/2017 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 12/15/2017 1:16pm
The point is that sometimes stories require actual legwork.



And how are they to compel someone to verify anything? Tie them up and shine a bright light in their face?

What's to gain? For anyone?

If you do it anonymously, then it's useless. Don't you have the right to face your accuser? You want them to set up a 1-800-PED-NARC phone tip line? Put up some reward?

Again, to gain what?

Also let's bear in mind, after that, their careers in this sport are toast, considering no one will trust them again and all access to teams, riders, transports and who knows what will go *POOF*

What do you do for a living? You willing to risk your present job or career?

To gain, what?
Johnny Depp
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12/15/2017 1:17pm
flarider wrote:
[quote]The point is that sometimes stories require actual legwork.[/quote] And how are they to compel someone to verify anything? Tie them up and shine a bright...
The point is that sometimes stories require actual legwork.



And how are they to compel someone to verify anything? Tie them up and shine a bright light in their face?

What's to gain? For anyone?

If you do it anonymously, then it's useless. Don't you have the right to face your accuser? You want them to set up a 1-800-PED-NARC phone tip line? Put up some reward?

Again, to gain what?

Also let's bear in mind, after that, their careers in this sport are toast, considering no one will trust them again and all access to teams, riders, transports and who knows what will go *POOF*

What do you do for a living? You willing to risk your present job or career?

To gain, what?
Is it safe to assume that many multi million dollar contracts would be put at risk for a PED violation?
flarider
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12/15/2017 1:21pm
flarider wrote:
[quote]The point is that sometimes stories require actual legwork.[/quote] And how are they to compel someone to verify anything? Tie them up and shine a bright...
The point is that sometimes stories require actual legwork.



And how are they to compel someone to verify anything? Tie them up and shine a bright light in their face?

What's to gain? For anyone?

If you do it anonymously, then it's useless. Don't you have the right to face your accuser? You want them to set up a 1-800-PED-NARC phone tip line? Put up some reward?

Again, to gain what?

Also let's bear in mind, after that, their careers in this sport are toast, considering no one will trust them again and all access to teams, riders, transports and who knows what will go *POOF*

What do you do for a living? You willing to risk your present job or career?

To gain, what?
Is it safe to assume that many multi million dollar contracts would be put at risk for a PED violation?
Reasonable assumption
kkawboy14
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12/15/2017 1:26pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Well, well, well. Between Eddie C. & a few people reminding folks WAS or WAS NOT said...and a Flarider clearing the air on Davi... This thread...
Well, well, well.

Between Eddie C. & a few people reminding folks WAS or WAS NOT said...and a Flarider clearing the air on Davi...

This thread has actually gone somewhat "in the right direction".

Nice.
See vital isn’t all vitardish!

I think what these guys are missing is that before 2009 it may not have been legal but I don’t remember them being illegal as in that they could do something about it if you were caught!
kkawboy14
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12/15/2017 1:30pm
flarider wrote:
[quote]The point is that sometimes stories require actual legwork.[/quote] And how are they to compel someone to verify anything? Tie them up and shine a bright...
The point is that sometimes stories require actual legwork.



And how are they to compel someone to verify anything? Tie them up and shine a bright light in their face?

What's to gain? For anyone?

If you do it anonymously, then it's useless. Don't you have the right to face your accuser? You want them to set up a 1-800-PED-NARC phone tip line? Put up some reward?

Again, to gain what?

Also let's bear in mind, after that, their careers in this sport are toast, considering no one will trust them again and all access to teams, riders, transports and who knows what will go *POOF*

What do you do for a living? You willing to risk your present job or career?

To gain, what?
Is it safe to assume that many multi million dollar contracts would be put at risk for a PED violation?
They are still reaching backwards trying to take old money from Armstrong!
Rhino
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12/15/2017 2:10pm
From the rider pics above.......the girl is as jacked as the dudes.

RJ and RD should look like that. In shape young males. Are they using? Hard to say since some drugs produce small but dry lean mass.....but make your strength and endurance level go way up.

But the eye test says nothing to see. That said, if Ron Lechien ever rode, RJ would have had it tougher.

Still a talent/balls sport.

defeatist45
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12/15/2017 2:45pm
Holy fucking Moses. Some of you guys..... TriggerWarned, you picked the perfect name.
lrantan
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12/15/2017 3:03pm Edited Date/Time 12/15/2017 3:06pm
I think some of the vitards here are under the illusion that MX/SX are as big of a world sport as baseball, football, Tour de France, soccer, or NASCAR. The New York Times investigating this? WTF are you on?
Maybe you need to take some PEDs to pull your head out of your ass. Did you ever cheat on a test in HS? Fudge a little on your taxes? Should we go back 20 years of your life to see where you did something wrong?
Dudes are going on and on about how they feel like they have been ripped off now, let it go. Or go burn all your jerseys and posters. Shit, NASCAR makes heros out of the guys that bend the rules or find something that isn't covered by the rules. Every sport you can think of has people looking for ways around the rules, this sport isn't any different. But some of you idiots feel cheated or triggered and you want somebody to make you feel better. Sorry, it's not going to happen. Grow a pair or take some PEDs.

Sorry, I got triggered

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