Latest Rumor/Fact: No Suzuki Factory Team in MXGP and MX2 for 2018

philG
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9/22/2017 3:44pm
NV825 wrote:
Good post. To keep getting that healthy bottom line they need to increase revenue or decrease costs. Suzuki seems to be pretty fluid in their business...
Good post. To keep getting that healthy bottom line they need to increase revenue or decrease costs. Suzuki seems to be pretty fluid in their business model and fairly successful (even though it means bad news for some of the motorsport series around the globe). It seems to me that they think going all-in with JGR in the US SX and MX series will accomplish their brand's goal of global awareness.

A question to the non-US members here, do you and your fellow moto friends watch US SX and MX as much as possible? If yes, then this may be a reason why Suzuki executives don't feel the need to double dip with a full race team in MXGP if they can get their brand in front of your eyes with only the JGR investment. Granted there will be some bad PR initially, but it may end up working out in their favor.
I think all the OEM's have made dumb decisions in the past , certainly here in the UK, many dealers used to be multi franchise, it worked well, you had big and small who could sell 2 , 3 or even all 4 brands . Then Honda decided to push on with its 'Solus' dealers, while there were a decent number already , Honda wanted to 'strengthen the brand' by creating super dealers, that would sell everything Honda, from cars and bikes , to lawnmowers and generators, and in doing this the killed off the small guys , and alienated its customer base,

If i want an MX bike i want to buy it from a guy that can support it, and the sport, not some shiny showroom that has a few bikes and half a dozen accessories.

This backfired, and even long term Honda dealers who were told they had to Honda, and nothing else , told them to shove it up there arse. Suddenly the strongest brand , that everyone wanted , was being dumped, the range was overpriced and badly though out, and Suzuki , Yamaha and Kawasaki all kicked their arses with low priced bikes that people could afford... Honda doesnt even sell the CBR600 in Europe , because nobody buys it, and it cost too much to get through Euro6.

Then Suzuki start trying the same, when staff who fucked Honda moved over, and they terminate dealers all over the place, and watch their market share drop, and now Yamaha are doing the same, terminating dealers, some of which sell bikes and are profitable, well run businesses, while keeping on debt ridden dealers in the hope of getting the money they are owed buy killing the other dealers off.

Its a clusterfuck of epic proportions, and MX is feeling the pinch because the Japanese went to sleep, my mate who is a Husky dealer, his biggest worry is that he cant get enough bikes, and KTM and Husky are having everyones pants down , with a proper range of well built and marketed bikes.

As for us over here watching US racing , i watch it all, and honestly if Suzuki think that Weston Peick and Justin Bogle will sell a single bike here in Europe, they are deranged. SX doesnt sell bikes, its a clown show compared to outdoors, any rider worth his salt knows that , Outdoors is what matters, but too many riders cant do it now, and that is the problem . All SX does is sell drink.
Construction
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9/22/2017 3:49pm
There are no more Suzuki auto dealers in the U.S. and I'm sure that took a huge economic toll on the company that they have never...
There are no more Suzuki auto dealers in the U.S. and I'm sure that took a huge economic toll on the company that they have never really fully recovered from.

If nobody wants the (rebadged) widget that you are selling...

http://blog.caranddriver.com/suzuki-ends-u-s-car-sales-why-it-had-to-do…

It's funny when people claim Suzuki doesn't have or make money. Only honda makes more and zuki Net profit is more than Yamaha Ktm and kawie...
It's funny when people claim Suzuki doesn't have or make money. Only honda makes more and zuki Net profit is more than Yamaha Ktm and kawie heavy industries combined. Also the day it was announced they would stop selling cars in the us their stock went up
NorCal 50+ wrote:
On first look, is "JPY" by "revenue"-- Japanese Yen?
Yes that means Japanese yen. Also read it says in Millions. So Suzuki net profit last year was approx 1.5 billion and Ktms net profit was around 70 million
skiz
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9/22/2017 3:51pm
NV825 wrote:
A question to the non-US members here, do you and your fellow moto friends watch US SX and MX as much as possible? If yes, then this may be a reason why Suzuki executives don't feel the need to double dip with a full race team in MXGP if they can get their brand in front of your eyes with only the JGR investment. Granted there will be some bad PR initially, but it may end up working out in their favor.
I had a similar question about the new Suzuki superbike only being raced in the US. Why completely redo your bike and then only race in MotoAmerica.? I was assuming that World Superbike was just delayed so that they could use the cheaper MotoAmerica effort to perfect the bike before the investment in World Superbike. But now Im wondering if a pullback from ALL of the big expense FIM series is a deliberate longterm decision. Im curious to see what happens in the really big money pit of MotoGP.
mauidex
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9/22/2017 3:52pm
well lots of people, and even RC in that last super interview, are wishing that moto gets more like NASCAR..........your wish is coming true!!!Whistling Whistling

The Shop

line-up
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9/22/2017 4:01pm
Here in the US there's not been a real factory Suzuki team since De Coster left 6 years ago...
steed 2.0
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9/22/2017 4:09pm
mauidex wrote:
well lots of people, and even RC in that last super interview, are wishing that moto gets more like NASCAR..........your wish is coming true!!!Whistling Whistling
Flat Track?... Sorry Couldn't Resist

olds cool
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9/22/2017 4:09pm
If Suzuki is having a fire sale on some of their equipment, I'd love to snag a deal on one of those cool tool box / work stations that the MXGP team used. Those were bad ass.
NV825
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9/22/2017 4:19pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 4:29pm
philG wrote:
I think all the OEM's have made dumb decisions in the past , certainly here in the UK, many dealers used to be multi franchise, it...
I think all the OEM's have made dumb decisions in the past , certainly here in the UK, many dealers used to be multi franchise, it worked well, you had big and small who could sell 2 , 3 or even all 4 brands . Then Honda decided to push on with its 'Solus' dealers, while there were a decent number already , Honda wanted to 'strengthen the brand' by creating super dealers, that would sell everything Honda, from cars and bikes , to lawnmowers and generators, and in doing this the killed off the small guys , and alienated its customer base,

If i want an MX bike i want to buy it from a guy that can support it, and the sport, not some shiny showroom that has a few bikes and half a dozen accessories.

This backfired, and even long term Honda dealers who were told they had to Honda, and nothing else , told them to shove it up there arse. Suddenly the strongest brand , that everyone wanted , was being dumped, the range was overpriced and badly though out, and Suzuki , Yamaha and Kawasaki all kicked their arses with low priced bikes that people could afford... Honda doesnt even sell the CBR600 in Europe , because nobody buys it, and it cost too much to get through Euro6.

Then Suzuki start trying the same, when staff who fucked Honda moved over, and they terminate dealers all over the place, and watch their market share drop, and now Yamaha are doing the same, terminating dealers, some of which sell bikes and are profitable, well run businesses, while keeping on debt ridden dealers in the hope of getting the money they are owed buy killing the other dealers off.

Its a clusterfuck of epic proportions, and MX is feeling the pinch because the Japanese went to sleep, my mate who is a Husky dealer, his biggest worry is that he cant get enough bikes, and KTM and Husky are having everyones pants down , with a proper range of well built and marketed bikes.

As for us over here watching US racing , i watch it all, and honestly if Suzuki think that Weston Peick and Justin Bogle will sell a single bike here in Europe, they are deranged. SX doesnt sell bikes, its a clown show compared to outdoors, any rider worth his salt knows that , Outdoors is what matters, but too many riders cant do it now, and that is the problem . All SX does is sell drink.
I don't think Suzuki's main goal is to have Bogle and Peick influence the customer to buy a Suzuki, because if that was the case then Suzuki for MANY years should have been the absolute top seller during the RC, Reed, Dungey, and Roczen championship years. The days of win one day, sell the next day is just not true anymore. (I do see JGR Suzuki trying to go after another big time rider next year though)

I personally think they are realizing that MXGP is just not as attractive to global viewers as the US SX series is (and it works out well that JGR also participates in the US MX series). On top of it, they can cut the fat of the travel costs associated with a series that travels the globe. They are choosing to put their eggs in the basket that will garner them the best chance to have a yellow bike in front of eye balls worldwide as a subconscious branding investment.

Hardcore fans love outdoors, but the reality is that SX is more popular worldwide. The glitz and glamor of riding in front of tens of thousands of people under giant stadium lights is intriguing to people who've never ridden a bike. Converting those people to buy a bike is a whole other story.
Derpin' DJ
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9/22/2017 4:29pm
Be interesting to see what Lawrence does. If he has signed with GEICO for '19, will Honda get him a ride in the GPs next year?
JB479
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9/22/2017 4:39pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 4:41pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Be interesting to see what Lawrence does. If he has signed with GEICO for '19, will Honda get him a ride in the GPs next year?
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not a bad thing, least he will be on a faster bike. Theres a chance he could win the title next year.
steed 2.0
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9/22/2017 4:56pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 5:00pm
philG wrote:
I think all the OEM's have made dumb decisions in the past , certainly here in the UK, many dealers used to be multi franchise, it...
I think all the OEM's have made dumb decisions in the past , certainly here in the UK, many dealers used to be multi franchise, it worked well, you had big and small who could sell 2 , 3 or even all 4 brands . Then Honda decided to push on with its 'Solus' dealers, while there were a decent number already , Honda wanted to 'strengthen the brand' by creating super dealers, that would sell everything Honda, from cars and bikes , to lawnmowers and generators, and in doing this the killed off the small guys , and alienated its customer base,

If i want an MX bike i want to buy it from a guy that can support it, and the sport, not some shiny showroom that has a few bikes and half a dozen accessories.

This backfired, and even long term Honda dealers who were told they had to Honda, and nothing else , told them to shove it up there arse. Suddenly the strongest brand , that everyone wanted , was being dumped, the range was overpriced and badly though out, and Suzuki , Yamaha and Kawasaki all kicked their arses with low priced bikes that people could afford... Honda doesnt even sell the CBR600 in Europe , because nobody buys it, and it cost too much to get through Euro6.

Then Suzuki start trying the same, when staff who fucked Honda moved over, and they terminate dealers all over the place, and watch their market share drop, and now Yamaha are doing the same, terminating dealers, some of which sell bikes and are profitable, well run businesses, while keeping on debt ridden dealers in the hope of getting the money they are owed buy killing the other dealers off.

Its a clusterfuck of epic proportions, and MX is feeling the pinch because the Japanese went to sleep, my mate who is a Husky dealer, his biggest worry is that he cant get enough bikes, and KTM and Husky are having everyones pants down , with a proper range of well built and marketed bikes.

As for us over here watching US racing , i watch it all, and honestly if Suzuki think that Weston Peick and Justin Bogle will sell a single bike here in Europe, they are deranged. SX doesnt sell bikes, its a clown show compared to outdoors, any rider worth his salt knows that , Outdoors is what matters, but too many riders cant do it now, and that is the problem . All SX does is sell drink.
Phil you know I know... Suzuki and Kawasaki are B-brands in Europe just prizefighters who use cheap parts etc. No real Factory team in MXGP, no presence in MotoGP, Dakar, World Enduro etc. this is the revenge of the Europeanens for the loss of BSA, CZ, Bultco, Maico etc. long story short Motocross still exist...
It's the fault of the Russians they hacked Motocross Laughing Wink the show goes on... with or without Suzuki
skiz
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9/22/2017 5:05pm
NV825 wrote:
I don't think Suzuki's main goal is to have Bogle and Peick influence the customer to buy a Suzuki, because if that was the case then Suzuki for MANY years should have been the absolute top seller during the RC, Reed, Dungey, and Roczen championship years. The days of win one day, sell the next day is just not true anymore. (I do see JGR Suzuki trying to go after another big time rider next year though)

I personally think they are realizing that MXGP is just not as attractive to global viewers as the US SX series is (and it works out well that JGR also participates in the US MX series). On top of it, they can cut the fat of the travel costs associated with a series that travels the globe. They are choosing to put their eggs in the basket that will garner them the best chance to have a yellow bike in front of eye balls worldwide as a subconscious branding investment.
"Suzuki for MANY years should have been the absolute top seller during the RC, Reed, Dungey, and Roczen championship years"
Good point
"best chance to have a yellow bike in front of eye balls worldwide as a subconscious branding investment"
Many of Suzukis bizarre decisions might be their version of marketing branding choices that don't place high value on race results.

NV825 wrote:
Hardcore fans love outdoors, but the reality is that SX is more popular worldwide. The glitz and glamor of riding in front of tens of thousands of people under giant stadium lights is intriguing to people who've never ridden a bike. Converting those people to buy a bike is a whole other story.
"tens of thousands of people under giant stadium lights...yellow bike in front of eye balls worldwide" is a budgeting marketing decision that might seem like the best option to them.

It's hard to understand the way that the mind of a suit processes information. You have to keep in mind that theres no spot on the resume' that indicates that the suit even watches racing... even likes racing... even sees racing as anything other than just another weighed decision between money going out VS exposure coming in.
9/22/2017 5:11pm
All about $$$ and return on investment. Remember, Kawasaki and Suzuki participated in MotoGP, they both left around the same time period. Suzuki waited several years to re-enter, Kawasaki still sitting on the sidelines looking on, only investing $ into WSBK.

From a corporate standpoint, your US 250 team from Kawasaki perspective much more successful and marketable, especially with known commodity like AC and Savagty.

MX2 is tough to market because in most scenarios, you might have that rider 3 years, then he either ages out or if he really is super talented, will be up on a 450 sooner. Obviously, KTM/Husky are dumping the money into some of their riders, but outside that, has to be hard for those OEMs to justify their expense.

Moto-sports industry as a whole seems to have taken a turn for the worse. May be a couple rough years ahead again; rallycross, F1 and MotoGP seem to be only things growing, everything else is stuck at a standstill or going backwards.
9/22/2017 5:18pm
Very few people know the JGR - Suzuki deal. Suzuki's cost could be relatively low. Bikes and tech only and JGR take care of the rest?

Evert's has been offered bikes and tech........but the main cash budget has seemingly been withdrawn.

Lets face it the 2018 JGR team looks pretty uninspiring in the big picture.
kkawboy14
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9/22/2017 5:19pm
Herlings "The Bullet" is killing moto!
jemcee
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9/22/2017 5:22pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Be interesting to see what Lawrence does. If he has signed with GEICO for '19, will Honda get him a ride in the GPs next year?
JB479 wrote:
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not...
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not a bad thing, least he will be on a faster bike. Theres a chance he could win the title next year.
Yeah and then with Beaton's deal 'falling through' at the last minute, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lining up a Honda ride then Honda found out about Lawrence and got him instead..

All speculation haha
Johnny Depp
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9/22/2017 5:25pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Herlings "The Bullet" is killing moto!
Nailed it! He sandbagged too long and killed the competition.
JB479
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9/22/2017 5:31pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Be interesting to see what Lawrence does. If he has signed with GEICO for '19, will Honda get him a ride in the GPs next year?
JB479 wrote:
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not...
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not a bad thing, least he will be on a faster bike. Theres a chance he could win the title next year.
jemcee wrote:
Yeah and then with Beaton's deal 'falling through' at the last minute, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lining up a Honda ride then Honda...
Yeah and then with Beaton's deal 'falling through' at the last minute, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lining up a Honda ride then Honda found out about Lawrence and got him instead..

All speculation haha
I was thinking the same thing when malin said beatons deal fell through at the last minute. Be cool to see 3 of them on the same team but. ... i think its messed up how bogers gets a factory hrc ride and he really didn't have any good rides in mx2 this year . Seems like whoever brings money get the ride. Kind of sad really.
tempura
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9/22/2017 5:32pm
It's telling that they have pulled out of their home countries series..
Suzuki are the niche moto brand in Japan. They have the smallest following.
Suzuki as a company are healthy and makes good profits. Moto has not been profitable for years, and that reflects their lack of investment on their bikes. Why pile profits from other sections of their company, into the moto, which is a loss?
This is just the start of things to come... The economic crash, 4 strokes, excessive spending on things like "brand ambassadors" hasn't helped one bit, and has just added to the loss of profits.
Derpin' DJ
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9/22/2017 7:36pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Be interesting to see what Lawrence does. If he has signed with GEICO for '19, will Honda get him a ride in the GPs next year?
JB479 wrote:
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not...
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not a bad thing, least he will be on a faster bike. Theres a chance he could win the title next year.
jemcee wrote:
Yeah and then with Beaton's deal 'falling through' at the last minute, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lining up a Honda ride then Honda...
Yeah and then with Beaton's deal 'falling through' at the last minute, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lining up a Honda ride then Honda found out about Lawrence and got him instead..

All speculation haha
Maybe he will ride with GEICO next year afterall. 6 riders seems unlikely though



ML512
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Fantasy
9/22/2017 7:38pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 7:39pm
JB479 wrote:
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not...
From what i read in pitbits. It does sound like Lawrence brothers are going red for 2018. Not sure what team Or support though. Probably not a bad thing, least he will be on a faster bike. Theres a chance he could win the title next year.
jemcee wrote:
Yeah and then with Beaton's deal 'falling through' at the last minute, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lining up a Honda ride then Honda...
Yeah and then with Beaton's deal 'falling through' at the last minute, I wouldn't be surprised if he was lining up a Honda ride then Honda found out about Lawrence and got him instead..

All speculation haha
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Maybe he will ride with GEICO next year afterall. 6 riders seems unlikely though [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/09/22/216236/s1200_Screenshot_20170923_123246.jpg[/img]
Maybe he will ride with GEICO next year afterall. 6 riders seems unlikely though



He won't be on GEICO next year but...well, close...but yeah, you'll see. Give it a few more days.
gt80rider
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9/22/2017 8:35pm
Mxgp had been gaining some momentum... But... What hurts it, especially during downturns in the industry, is quite simply the travel costs... Costs of running a team all over America isnt cheap, running mxgp all over the globe has to be insane... Is it really worth the money to hold an mxgp in Mexico, etc....??
9/22/2017 9:07pm
The sport of moto is not healthy.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Unless we pay our athletes a lot more...notably the group in 22-10th in sx and all the way to 40th in moto... there is no point for a family to keep their kid in this sport

And the amount of money that is perceived to be earned by top 5 guy who maybe won a 250 title but no 450 title... is way off. Those guys earn a lot but not nearly what I feel people think they earn.

But the sport outside of pro racing is terribly un healthy. Kids just don't find motorcycles as fun as they used to.
Secondly, many kids find manageable trail style bikes fun. Say a stock 110. But a cobra or ktm 50 these same kids hate. And the sad fact is less than 10 percent of the 50cc racer kids will ever use all the bike.

Modern 50s and 65s are just flat out stupid.

I also think rising healthcare costs in the country play a big role in all this. Many of the families we have done work for who can afford this sport and the time... are self employed... with smaller businesses but large enough to have employees. Many pay over double what someone would pay who works for large corporation for health insurance of lessor quality. It wasn't always This way... but as we all know last 15 years for healthcare hasn't been easy on the wallet. Sadly it adds to the bottom line on risk vs reward...

Racing would be just as exciting on half as capable of bikes. Racing for local guys would be more enjoyable on slower bikes. It's laughable people think modern 450s aren't fast enough. There wasnt a production 500 made that touches a modern ktm or crf450 in power or width of power.

I promise you this: if every local track had a 100cc (112 whatever) race class for adults... it would
Be the most fun race of the day.
NorCal 50+
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9/22/2017 9:08pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 9:17pm
It's funny when people claim Suzuki doesn't have or make money. Only honda makes more and zuki Net profit is more than Yamaha Ktm and kawie...
It's funny when people claim Suzuki doesn't have or make money. Only honda makes more and zuki Net profit is more than Yamaha Ktm and kawie heavy industries combined. Also the day it was announced they would stop selling cars in the us their stock went up
NorCal 50+ wrote:
On first look, is "JPY" by "revenue"-- Japanese Yen?
Yes that means Japanese yen. Also read it says in Millions. So Suzuki net profit last year was approx 1.5 billion and Ktms net profit was...
Yes that means Japanese yen. Also read it says in Millions. So Suzuki net profit last year was approx 1.5 billion and Ktms net profit was around 70 million
If you look at page 28 of the PDF here it says Suzuki's fiscal 2017 profit (March 2016-March 2017) is: http://www.globalsuzuki.com/ir/library/annualreport/pdf/2017/2017all.pdf

907,627 million Yen.
1 Japanese Yen = .0089 US $

Ah shit..I didn't get it right. I don't know.


reded
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9/22/2017 9:12pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 9:14pm
D Harris is exactly right.....on all points. Problem is, there's no reverse, cats outta the bag and no one will help put him back in.
9/22/2017 9:34pm
i have thought for sometime that Suzuki might pull out of all dirt bikes, as they have put bugger all into R & D on any of their models in the last decade,

KurtJ99
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9/22/2017 9:41pm
Contractually can Suzuki pull out of JGR?
Derpin' DJ
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9/22/2017 10:54pm
ML512 wrote:
He won't be on GEICO next year but...well, close...but yeah, you'll see. Give it a few more days.
Intriguing, look forward to seeing what comes next for him
steed 2.0
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9/22/2017 11:14pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 11:28pm
tempura wrote:
It's telling that they have pulled out of their home countries series.. Suzuki are the niche moto brand in Japan. They have the smallest following. Suzuki...
It's telling that they have pulled out of their home countries series..
Suzuki are the niche moto brand in Japan. They have the smallest following.
Suzuki as a company are healthy and makes good profits. Moto has not been profitable for years, and that reflects their lack of investment on their bikes. Why pile profits from other sections of their company, into the moto, which is a loss?
This is just the start of things to come... The economic crash, 4 strokes, excessive spending on things like "brand ambassadors" hasn't helped one bit, and has just added to the loss of profits.
Same in Europe, keep in mind It's not so long ago people wouldn't touch KTM with a ten-foot pole and the European boutique brands as a whole (street & dirt) are growing in an already stagnant market someone is going to pay the bill, seems that is now Suzuki
F.B
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9/22/2017 11:17pm
ML512 wrote:
He won't be on GEICO next year but...well, close...but yeah, you'll see. Give it a few more days.
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Intriguing, look forward to seeing what comes next for him
The new Gariboldi Honda team next season and Geico in 19.

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