Interview - Eli Tomac "These guys are raising the bar above us Americans in motocross"

alex69
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alex69 9/4/2017 11:50am
9/4/2017 11:50am
Is there a reason why outdoor isn't popular anymore in the states?
RandyS
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RandyS 9/4/2017 11:53am
9/4/2017 11:53am
alex69 wrote:
Is there a reason why outdoor isn't popular anymore in the states?
Jeremy McGrath
BobPA
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BobPA 9/4/2017 11:55am
9/4/2017 11:55am
alex69 wrote:
Is there a reason why outdoor isn't popular anymore in the states?
No one likes the sunshine anymore.
mxb2
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mxb2 9/4/2017 11:58am
9/4/2017 11:58am
alex69 wrote:
Is there a reason why outdoor isn't popular anymore in the states?
People are soft now,. Don't want to be outside in the heat,weather conditions all day. SX is more fan friendly.

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Harry Backmon 9/4/2017 12:08pm
9/4/2017 12:08pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2017 12:38pm
alex69 wrote:
Is there a reason why outdoor isn't popular anymore in the states?
A big part has to be advertising. When SX came to Jacksonville, the commercials were all over TV. Virtually everyone had to know about it. It didn't help Jax hold a date in SX, but they got at least 20,000 for them, and I think as many as 30,000 for the first one.

The GP at WW had virtually no advertisement. At least that I'm aware of. I asked friends about it and one guy told me he got an e-mail from the Jacksonville Jaguars (he's a season ticket holder) advertising the race. Other than that, if there was a commercial, a radio ad, whatever, I never heard about it. Sunday's Florida Times Union had a paragraph and some pictures from Saturday.
scott_nz 9/4/2017 12:10pm
9/4/2017 12:10pm
alex69 wrote:
Is there a reason why outdoor isn't popular anymore in the states?
its not that it isn't popular, but SX pulls more fans in the gate, pays better, and is just more prestigious, and has been since at least the mid 90's,
Hut
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Hut 9/4/2017 12:15pm
9/4/2017 12:15pm
alex69 wrote:
Is there a reason why outdoor isn't popular anymore in the states?
Most of my non-riding friends and coworkers say it is boring. I don't understand why personally but it has been downhill since the mid 80s.
In all honestly, I never go to outdoor races anymore either but do attend a SX or two every year. I'm 49 years old fwiw
JC21
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JC21 9/4/2017 12:30pm
9/4/2017 12:30pm
Can anyone remind me how it worked out when IRL/CART split their talent? Essentially that's what I see AMA/MXGP doing at the moment.

The big difference is supercross though, can't see anyone killing that cash cow.
Mike_Frisk 9/4/2017 12:52pm
9/4/2017 12:52pm
TDeath21 wrote:
I think we are, for the first time in a long time, in an era where there aren't any all time greats racing on the AMA...
I think we are, for the first time in a long time, in an era where there aren't any all time greats racing on the AMA circuit. We went from McGrath to Carmichael to Reed to Stewart to Villopoto to Dungey. You'd have a strong argument if you said they're all top ten all time AMA riders.

So yes, I guess the AMA is down a bit right now. If Roczen and Musquin didn't come over, our field here would be very weak following Dungey's retirement.

SX with its always extending season and major money has obviously added to the AMA MX scene getting weaker. There really wasn't a debate for a long time where the best riders in the world went. It was the AMA scene here in the states. It's not like that anymore. SX has gotten to be such an overwhelming portion of the AMA schedule that you can't just be an okay SX rider and great MX rider anymore. Tortelli and Albertyn are perfect examples. That was sustainable in their day as long as they got through SX injury free (something they often didn't do). Now, the top GP talent stays in the GPs unless they have been exposed to SX at a younger age and can actually compete and battle for SX championships like Roczen and Musquin can. If they don't fit that bill, then they stay in the GPs like Cairoli and Herlings, among many others. 15 years ago, Jeremy Martin would have been offered a top 450 ride for 2016 following back to back 250 MX championships, coupled with a few wins here and there in SX. In 2017, that will get him a factory support ride at best.

In conclusion, the rise of SX and the fact that the AMA scene doesn't have an all time great out there for the first time in a long time is leading to a weaker US MX scene. Add this onto the fact that top GP riders aren't coming over for reasons mentioned above, then you've got yourself the result of what we are seeing right now.

Side note: It really sucks that MX fans don't get to see all the best going at it for an entire series. Any sport that doesn't have a way to get the best to always compete against each other is just frustrating for fans of that sport.
Very well said sir, one of the best post I've read on the subject.

It's sad, I'm not American but I used to follow the AMA series religiously and watch a GP here and there, now I watch it all but for motocross I would rather see the GP's if I had to choose.
jorgechavez 9/4/2017 12:56pm
9/4/2017 12:56pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2017 12:57pm
mccread wrote:
Racing the full world championship would be a bit different for RJ from racing your home GP or the des nations. Ask RV. There is one...
Racing the full world championship would be a bit different for RJ from racing your home GP or the des nations. Ask RV.

There is one world motocross championship, that's MXGP, it's the measuring stick for being the best mx rider in the world.

If you want to be the best SX guy, race in the USA. It's pretty simple, those are the two biggest championships in the world.
Can we get this guy out of here? Shouldn't be allowed to post if you're constantly trying to fuel
the fire
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agn5009 9/4/2017 1:03pm
9/4/2017 1:03pm
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli, Paulin, Febvre, Desalle and Gajser.

Now look at the 250 class. They just got beat by a guy who wasn't anywhere even close to being as good as the best 250 riders. The GP series has a fantastic group of 450 riders right now. I see the AMA series taking back the throne in 5-6 years.
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kongols 9/4/2017 1:06pm
9/4/2017 1:06pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2017 1:10pm
agn5009 wrote:
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli...
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli, Paulin, Febvre, Desalle and Gajser.

Now look at the 250 class. They just got beat by a guy who wasn't anywhere even close to being as good as the best 250 riders. The GP series has a fantastic group of 450 riders right now. I see the AMA series taking back the throne in 5-6 years.
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think about it before you post.
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DPR250R 9/4/2017 1:10pm
9/4/2017 1:10pm
mccread wrote:
Racing the full world championship would be a bit different for RJ from racing your home GP or the des nations. Ask RV. There is one...
Racing the full world championship would be a bit different for RJ from racing your home GP or the des nations. Ask RV.

There is one world motocross championship, that's MXGP, it's the measuring stick for being the best mx rider in the world.

If you want to be the best SX guy, race in the USA. It's pretty simple, those are the two biggest championships in the world.
It's not really tho dude. Winning the MXGP does not automatically mean you are the best in the world.
RichardLoots 9/4/2017 1:16pm
9/4/2017 1:16pm
kongols wrote:
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think...
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think about it before you post.
this ... just imagine Herlings,Anstie, Ferrandis ,Gajser etc would have stayed in MX2 , all of them younger as most top runners in AMA
TheOriginalPancakee 9/4/2017 1:23pm
9/4/2017 1:23pm
mxb2 wrote:
Indy sx, 40-50 thousand,fans. High point 10k. Easy to figure out. Need more outdoor fans, simple.
Agreed
Prejump
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Prejump 9/4/2017 2:11pm
9/4/2017 2:11pm
DPR250R wrote:
It's not really tho dude. Winning the MXGP does not automatically mean you are the best in the world.
Yes it does. How can a national rider be the best in the world ? Just because a US national rider can ride chocolate cake faster then a GP rider doesnt make them better. The only true measure of a rider is a rider that competes a world series. Where you are after all the traveling is the result. TBF covington is doing the US proud right now, least he had the balls to leave his border.

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agn5009 9/4/2017 2:21pm
9/4/2017 2:21pm
agn5009 wrote:
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli...
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli, Paulin, Febvre, Desalle and Gajser.

Now look at the 250 class. They just got beat by a guy who wasn't anywhere even close to being as good as the best 250 riders. The GP series has a fantastic group of 450 riders right now. I see the AMA series taking back the throne in 5-6 years.
kongols wrote:
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think...
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think about it before you post.
You're right never really thought about the 23 year rule.
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MX690 9/4/2017 2:25pm
9/4/2017 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2017 2:28pm
DPR250R wrote:
It's not really tho dude. Winning the MXGP does not automatically mean you are the best in the world.
Well it is a World Championship. I guess if a national champion wants to be known as a world champion he probably should join the championship that races all over the world.
Edit: Prejump beat me to it.

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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 9/4/2017 2:25pm
9/4/2017 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2017 2:26pm
Rowlands wrote:
I get exactly what your saying Jeffro but didn't the American riders like JS7,RC, RJ have the same schedule and they used to wax the GP...
I get exactly what your saying Jeffro but didn't the American riders like JS7,RC, RJ have the same schedule and they used to wax the GP boys no matter what.

I think it's more of a case of the GP riders upping there game in recent years than a decline in US riders.

Great interview by the way Vital thanks !
Hut wrote:
Don't forget the 250s this weekend
Right!, the future must be looking bright for the future of American MX
scooterwhipmoore 9/4/2017 2:47pm
9/4/2017 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2017 2:49pm
You guys need to remember when RV came to MXGP he was coming off major reconstructive knee surgery and had been on the couch for 6 months, His wife had just given birth to twins, and obviously his heart was no-where in it. So please quit gauging MXGP off that....

As far as the 23 rule, Our (AMA series) is or has been very deep until this year KR94 out, CR22 out, TC41 out, DM18 out, RD5 retired, and the rest of the front-runners injured and needing surgery. It was a down year,,,, Obviously the 250 class is deep our 11-place guy waxed your field. Our MX series is considerably deeper than the MXGP that is why guys like Ozborne, Davalos, and the Martins keep their rides at the 250 level.

I can easily see our MXDN team being Forkner (18) Webb (20) AC (20) Plessinger (21), or Covington (21)

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DPR250R 9/4/2017 2:47pm
9/4/2017 2:47pm
Prejump wrote:
Yes it does. How can a national rider be the best in the world ? Just because a US national rider can ride chocolate cake faster...
Yes it does. How can a national rider be the best in the world ? Just because a US national rider can ride chocolate cake faster then a GP rider doesnt make them better. The only true measure of a rider is a rider that competes a world series. Where you are after all the traveling is the result. TBF covington is doing the US proud right now, least he had the balls to leave his border.

Did I say that the AMA champ is the best in the world? No...

All I said was that winning the MXGP does not automatically mean you are the best in the world.
RandyS
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RandyS 9/4/2017 3:07pm
9/4/2017 3:07pm Edited Date/Time 9/4/2017 3:10pm
Edited: Yeah I just wrote very close to the same post I wrote a few hours ago. I thought it was a different thread. Dumbass.
RichardLoots 9/4/2017 3:11pm
9/4/2017 3:11pm
scooterwhipmoore wrote:
You guys need to remember when RV came to MXGP he was coming off major reconstructive knee surgery and had been on the couch for 6...
You guys need to remember when RV came to MXGP he was coming off major reconstructive knee surgery and had been on the couch for 6 months, His wife had just given birth to twins, and obviously his heart was no-where in it. So please quit gauging MXGP off that....

As far as the 23 rule, Our (AMA series) is or has been very deep until this year KR94 out, CR22 out, TC41 out, DM18 out, RD5 retired, and the rest of the front-runners injured and needing surgery. It was a down year,,,, Obviously the 250 class is deep our 11-place guy waxed your field. Our MX series is considerably deeper than the MXGP that is why guys like Ozborne, Davalos, and the Martins keep their rides at the 250 level.

I can easily see our MXDN team being Forkner (18) Webb (20) AC (20) Plessinger (21), or Covington (21)

butthurt is big he Shocked
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ATKpilot99 9/4/2017 3:31pm
9/4/2017 3:31pm
I remember when the AMA vs GP argument just heated up around the MXdN . Now it's pretty much non stop and it's tiresome even though I do admit to being drawn into it at times. It would be good if engaging in it meant being clicked automatically but if that were the case there would only be about 3 people left posting here. Smile
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brewrabb 9/4/2017 3:47pm
9/4/2017 3:47pm
agn5009 wrote:
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli...
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli, Paulin, Febvre, Desalle and Gajser.

Now look at the 250 class. They just got beat by a guy who wasn't anywhere even close to being as good as the best 250 riders. The GP series has a fantastic group of 450 riders right now. I see the AMA series taking back the throne in 5-6 years.
kongols wrote:
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think...
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think about it before you post.
agn5009 wrote:
You're right never really thought about the 23 year rule.
Implement a 23yr old rule and you will severely diminish the 250 class and put riders out of work early. There are not enough rides for all the top riders thus you get the Fredrick Noren's living the dream out of a van. More programs to build the base are what's needed with more cost effective racing at the grass roots level (aka. 150 class racing). True moto aficionados will endure spending a saturday/sunday at a track but the convenience of supercross endures to the casual fan. You have to admit sitting in a comfortable seat with accessible snack and beverages while watching your favorite team/brand/riders is pretty great.
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DPR250R 9/4/2017 5:04pm
9/4/2017 5:04pm
alex69 wrote:
Is there a reason why outdoor isn't popular anymore in the states?
If you read the thread Harry Backman wrote about his experience at the USGP there is an account of someone that didnt have the best time. Heat, parking, seating etc... I think you can use that as an example of why some people have given up on the US Nationals. Just my opinion, no facts to support it.

Personally, I haven't been since 2005 I think. I live within 4 hours of Southwick, Unadilla and Binghamton. In all honesty the great TV coverage makes it easy to stay home. I am a fanatic about not missing it.

I hope to get my son up to Unadilla next year and see how he likes it. There is nothing like being there and the Nationals are so much better than SX live.

Another random thought about sports in general in the US. I am a big baseball fan and have been to both Mets and Yankees games this year. The new stadiums have so much going on it seems like the game is just going on in the background (drinks, food, games... etc) . Its not til the post season that the attention span of the fans sees to lengthen. Getting people to sit and look at nothing but the sporting event seems to be tough these days.
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kong0036 9/4/2017 5:19pm
9/4/2017 5:19pm
mccread wrote:
Racing the full world championship would be a bit different for RJ from racing your home GP or the des nations. Ask RV. There is one...
Racing the full world championship would be a bit different for RJ from racing your home GP or the des nations. Ask RV.

There is one world motocross championship, that's MXGP, it's the measuring stick for being the best mx rider in the world.

If you want to be the best SX guy, race in the USA. It's pretty simple, those are the two biggest championships in the world.
BINGO we have a winner.
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Park Boys 9/4/2017 5:22pm
9/4/2017 5:22pm
agn5009 wrote:
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli...
There's a few guys in the GP's that can run with Tomac, Musquin, Roczen, Anderson and Baggett in MX when healthy. Those are obviously Herlings, Cairoli, Paulin, Febvre, Desalle and Gajser.

Now look at the 250 class. They just got beat by a guy who wasn't anywhere even close to being as good as the best 250 riders. The GP series has a fantastic group of 450 riders right now. I see the AMA series taking back the throne in 5-6 years.
kongols wrote:
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think...
23 year rule. All your 250 front runners are older than Roczen and Herlings. That is a difference. AMA 250 champ is 28 years old. Think about it before you post.
Not all the front runners. Generalizations are dangerous.
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Park Boys 9/4/2017 5:28pm
9/4/2017 5:28pm
TDeath21 wrote:
I think we are, for the first time in a long time, in an era where there aren't any all time greats racing on the AMA...
I think we are, for the first time in a long time, in an era where there aren't any all time greats racing on the AMA circuit. We went from McGrath to Carmichael to Reed to Stewart to Villopoto to Dungey. You'd have a strong argument if you said they're all top ten all time AMA riders.

So yes, I guess the AMA is down a bit right now. If Roczen and Musquin didn't come over, our field here would be very weak following Dungey's retirement.

SX with its always extending season and major money has obviously added to the AMA MX scene getting weaker. There really wasn't a debate for a long time where the best riders in the world went. It was the AMA scene here in the states. It's not like that anymore. SX has gotten to be such an overwhelming portion of the AMA schedule that you can't just be an okay SX rider and great MX rider anymore. Tortelli and Albertyn are perfect examples. That was sustainable in their day as long as they got through SX injury free (something they often didn't do). Now, the top GP talent stays in the GPs unless they have been exposed to SX at a younger age and can actually compete and battle for SX championships like Roczen and Musquin can. If they don't fit that bill, then they stay in the GPs like Cairoli and Herlings, among many others. 15 years ago, Jeremy Martin would have been offered a top 450 ride for 2016 following back to back 250 MX championships, coupled with a few wins here and there in SX. In 2017, that will get him a factory support ride at best.

In conclusion, the rise of SX and the fact that the AMA scene doesn't have an all time great out there for the first time in a long time is leading to a weaker US MX scene. Add this onto the fact that top GP riders aren't coming over for reasons mentioned above, then you've got yourself the result of what we are seeing right now.

Side note: It really sucks that MX fans don't get to see all the best going at it for an entire series. Any sport that doesn't have a way to get the best to always compete against each other is just frustrating for fans of that sport.
Roczen has won two 450 titles by the age of 22. On top of a world title at 17. If winning 3 major Motocross championships by the time your 22 dosent make you all time I don't know what does. He is far better outdoors than Reed ever was and is better than MC outdoors as well. He has crashed himself out of two Supercross titles though IMO. But outdoors he is far and away the best Non American ever in the AMA series and that includes JMB.

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