Could RD beat Tomac again in 2018?

cali11
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5/8/2017 1:17pm
Falcon wrote:
Sure he [i]could.[/i] Something just like this season could play out. Frankly, with a healthy Roczen in the mix, I like Dungey's chances even better. The...
Sure he could. Something just like this season could play out. Frankly, with a healthy Roczen in the mix, I like Dungey's chances even better. The other two would take points from each other, which could help to level the playing field and turn it into a championship of consistency. Who's the best at that game?
Healthy Rockzen? Umm you really think he is going to be ready to race in January? He will be lucky if he is back in the bike by then. His arm is really messed up.
g.guthrie
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5/8/2017 1:17pm
Every super x rider knows that if you ride on the ragged edge you're going to go down sooner or later. The question becomes: Do I want to win races by going all in? Or do I want to win championships and dial it back and stay within the envelope?
cali11
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5/8/2017 1:18pm
dcg141 wrote:
Roczen is done I am afraid. Honestly I think they are trying to save his arm. I have never heard of anyone having that many surgeries...
Roczen is done I am afraid. Honestly I think they are trying to save his arm. I have never heard of anyone having that many surgeries. There is no way his arm will ever be the same. I hope I am wrong but I don't think it looks good for a comeback. Tomac will wad up again, he is a win it or wreck kinda rider and most guys never grow out of that.
I have to agree with you. I don't see him being ready for SX if he does make a comeback. Tomac is another Stew. Hope he can put it together this summer.
g.guthrie
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5/8/2017 1:20pm
As much as I dislike foreigners coming over and taking hardware away from our boys, I really hope Roc can come back and be competitive.

The Shop

IceMan446
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5/8/2017 1:20pm
Falcon wrote:
Sure he [i]could.[/i] Something just like this season could play out. Frankly, with a healthy Roczen in the mix, I like Dungey's chances even better. The...
Sure he could. Something just like this season could play out. Frankly, with a healthy Roczen in the mix, I like Dungey's chances even better. The other two would take points from each other, which could help to level the playing field and turn it into a championship of consistency. Who's the best at that game?
cali11 wrote:
Healthy Rockzen? Umm you really think he is going to be ready to race in January? He will be lucky if he is back in the...
Healthy Rockzen? Umm you really think he is going to be ready to race in January? He will be lucky if he is back in the bike by then. His arm is really messed up.
Roczen will be lucky to even make the Nationals next year, let alone SX.
C_Hart3
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5/8/2017 1:55pm
If Dungey is back next season of course he can win it. If he comes back it means he has refound his motivation and will be in it more than he was this year.

On the flip side, Eli has shown a lot growth in his racecraft. Yes he has history of crashing because he was laying it all out there. But it doesn't look like he is pushing beyond his limit. He's fast, and he has seemed to learn when to unleash the speed and when he can just sit in a comfy groove. He now has his setup all dialed in, he's completely healed up, he's got his confidence and he's getting smarter. We may not see history repeat itself here. (I sure as hell hope not)

KRoc is a beast. He will be back, but I doubt by next SX season, and if he is he won't be the same rider we saw in outdoors last season and the beginning of this sx season. At least not for awhile. Look how long it took Eli to get back.

I'd love to see Eli and Ryan battle it out again next sx season. It made for an exciting season this year.
Bosco
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5/8/2017 1:59pm
Tomac beat himself. When did Ryan beat him straight up this season? If I recall everytime they started together Tomac checked out or came from 10th...
Tomac beat himself. When did Ryan beat him straight up this season? If I recall everytime they started together Tomac checked out or came from 10th or worse to win. Not including crashes/mechanicals or the first 3 races when Tomac was riding like a 10th place guy.
"Not including the times when Dungey beat Eli straight up, when did Dungey beat Eli straight up?"

Do you see a logical fallacy there? Silly
Juice_Mann
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5/8/2017 2:10pm
For everyone on here thinking that RD is some unbeatable force in SX... RV says hi.
9grains
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5/8/2017 3:20pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2017 3:20pm
Yes, but obviously with caveats.

In all of the comparisons and analysis between Dungey and Tomac or Roczen, I have not seen much of an apples to apples comparison. Meaning, taking into consideration the tremendous accumulative toll Dungey's body has undergone competing at the elite level during his 8 SX seasons in the 450 class, winning 4 titles. By comparison, both RC and RV had retired before their 8th 250/450 class SX season. (RC raced 7 full seasons not counting his layoff in 2004 due to injury and won 5 titles. RV raced 6 SX seasons and won 4 titles).

Comparing the abilities of Dungey to younger racers is nonsensical, even if Dungey is only 27. So while I don't doubt Dungey's ability to win another title, it will become increasingly more difficult for him to do so. You can expect Tomac and Musquin to come back even better, and I don't discount future challenges from Cooper Webb as well. I hope Roczen can make a comeback, but that will take some time, science and good fortune, it would seem.

There's a lot to be said about going out on top, as well.
Starcrossed
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5/8/2017 3:31pm
9grains wrote:
Yes, but obviously with caveats. In all of the comparisons and analysis between Dungey and Tomac or Roczen, I have not seen much of an apples...
Yes, but obviously with caveats.

In all of the comparisons and analysis between Dungey and Tomac or Roczen, I have not seen much of an apples to apples comparison. Meaning, taking into consideration the tremendous accumulative toll Dungey's body has undergone competing at the elite level during his 8 SX seasons in the 450 class, winning 4 titles. By comparison, both RC and RV had retired before their 8th 250/450 class SX season. (RC raced 7 full seasons not counting his layoff in 2004 due to injury and won 5 titles. RV raced 6 SX seasons and won 4 titles).

Comparing the abilities of Dungey to younger racers is nonsensical, even if Dungey is only 27. So while I don't doubt Dungey's ability to win another title, it will become increasingly more difficult for him to do so. You can expect Tomac and Musquin to come back even better, and I don't discount future challenges from Cooper Webb as well. I hope Roczen can make a comeback, but that will take some time, science and good fortune, it would seem.

There's a lot to be said about going out on top, as well.
Dungey isn't all busted up like some of those other guys either. He's had fewer injuries than anybody who has been in the 450 class as long as he has. He's always been in tip top shape, so I don't think the years have taken a tremendous toll on him physically. Reed is still out there and he has quite a few years on Ryan. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Ryan is ready to call it quits yet.
9grains
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5/8/2017 3:36pm
9grains wrote:
Yes, but obviously with caveats. In all of the comparisons and analysis between Dungey and Tomac or Roczen, I have not seen much of an apples...
Yes, but obviously with caveats.

In all of the comparisons and analysis between Dungey and Tomac or Roczen, I have not seen much of an apples to apples comparison. Meaning, taking into consideration the tremendous accumulative toll Dungey's body has undergone competing at the elite level during his 8 SX seasons in the 450 class, winning 4 titles. By comparison, both RC and RV had retired before their 8th 250/450 class SX season. (RC raced 7 full seasons not counting his layoff in 2004 due to injury and won 5 titles. RV raced 6 SX seasons and won 4 titles).

Comparing the abilities of Dungey to younger racers is nonsensical, even if Dungey is only 27. So while I don't doubt Dungey's ability to win another title, it will become increasingly more difficult for him to do so. You can expect Tomac and Musquin to come back even better, and I don't discount future challenges from Cooper Webb as well. I hope Roczen can make a comeback, but that will take some time, science and good fortune, it would seem.

There's a lot to be said about going out on top, as well.
Dungey isn't all busted up like some of those other guys either. He's had fewer injuries than anybody who has been in the 450 class as...
Dungey isn't all busted up like some of those other guys either. He's had fewer injuries than anybody who has been in the 450 class as long as he has. He's always been in tip top shape, so I don't think the years have taken a tremendous toll on him physically. Reed is still out there and he has quite a few years on Ryan. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Ryan is ready to call it quits yet.
There's a large difference between being "out there" and competing for championships. And while injuries have been minimal, accumulation does matter. His drop will come. We don't know when that will be but it will come. The question is whether or not Dungey is interested in putting in the work once it has happened. As great as Reed still is, he isn't what he was, and that is to be expected.
5/8/2017 3:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2017 3:53pm
Dungey is retiring at the end of the season and Blake is taking his spot over at Red Bull KTM and Bloss is stepping up to the 450 full time at RM
kiwifan
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5/8/2017 4:10pm
davistld01 wrote:
I think everybody with any sense would agree that Eli Tomac was the fastest man on the track at most every SX round this year...but Dungey...
I think everybody with any sense would agree that Eli Tomac was the fastest man on the track at most every SX round this year...but Dungey was the smartest. He knew that it was the points that mattered when the music stopped. He knows how to manage a championship...he's proven it 4-times now.

IF Ryan Dungey chooses to race the 2018 year instead of retirement...do you think he can outgun Tomac (and maybe Roczen) for another Championship?

Do you think consistency & experience can beat sheer speed again?
Yes he can....
davistld01
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5/8/2017 4:15pm
kiwifan wrote:
Yes he can....
I believe you're right.
5/8/2017 4:18pm
The Fastest guy more often than not does Not win the C'ship
seth505
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5/8/2017 4:44pm
seth505 wrote:
I like how Dunge just won but people will say it's a NO on being able to win next year.
jndmx wrote:
Can't win if you don't play.....
Wink

My money says he hangs up the boots after doing select outdoor rounds.
True! I was commenting, assuming he decides to line up. I agree with you though, I am thinking he doesn't race next year.
malachi177
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5/8/2017 5:10pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2017 5:11pm
cali11 wrote:
RD didn't beat Tomac. Tomac best himself.
Agreed. Didn't he finish back to back 8th places in the beginning? Then the 15th at Arlington and the crash at NJ.
Of course you two snowflakes are in agreement. Shit by your logic if Ryans chain didn't de-rail at A2 in '11 or run out of gas while leading (Freestone? in '11) Dungey would have two MORE titles and Villo 2 LESS!! Ffs, you two are pathetic.

Why, because you two would argue that Dungey didn't deserve to win those titles for some reason. Discredit him every chance you get.
kiwifan
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5/8/2017 6:02pm
dcg141 wrote:
Roczen is done I am afraid. Honestly I think they are trying to save his arm. I have never heard of anyone having that many surgeries...
Roczen is done I am afraid. Honestly I think they are trying to save his arm. I have never heard of anyone having that many surgeries. There is no way his arm will ever be the same. I hope I am wrong but I don't think it looks good for a comeback. Tomac will wad up again, he is a win it or wreck kinda rider and most guys never grow out of that.
I disagree about Roczen, seems everyone thinks they know what he will be like after rehab before they even know how rehab is going....
TeamGreen
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5/8/2017 6:10pm
davistld01 wrote:
I think everybody with any sense would agree that Eli Tomac was the fastest man on the track at most every SX round this year...but Dungey...
I think everybody with any sense would agree that Eli Tomac was the fastest man on the track at most every SX round this year...but Dungey was the smartest. He knew that it was the points that mattered when the music stopped. He knows how to manage a championship...he's proven it 4-times now.

IF Ryan Dungey chooses to race the 2018 year instead of retirement...do you think he can outgun Tomac (and maybe Roczen) for another Championship?

Do you think consistency & experience can beat sheer speed again?
Explain New Jersey to me...

Who was the fastest AND the smartest?
FARANG
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5/8/2017 8:29pm
I like Dungey, and respect the way he held his nerve to get this year's title with Tomac being clearly faster and putting him under severe pressure.

But I honestly think the writing is on the wall in terms of a changing of the guard. Lots of fast guys coming up who are only going to get better so if he wants to go out at the very top, this might be the time to do it. I'd be happy to see him stay though.
tickleme20
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5/8/2017 9:25pm
I think so. Dungey has a solid track record. Every single season he delivers a championship worthy performance. Tomac, on the other hand, shot out from nowhere to replace Roczen as Dungey's main nemesis. He was just wicked fast and talented this season. But we don't if he can repeat that. The odds are definitely in Dungey's favor IMO.
gnarwhip
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5/8/2017 9:30pm
Dungey's new nickname is "Little kid on Christmas morning" because he's gotten more gifts this year than anyone. I'll bet anything he retires after the outdoors. He knows he lucked into this title, and he'll go out "on top".
BikerScars
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5/8/2017 9:47pm
ET is probably the fastest MX racer in the world right now, and that counts for a lot.
RD is probably the most consistent and experienced racer on the track, and that means a lot too.
The championship racer will need some of each.

I would bet on ET by a small margin as he is super hungry and is getting a lot of experience chasing and getting the SX red plate (450).

But anything could happen! That's why they got to line up at the starting gate and race !
-MAVERICK-
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5/8/2017 9:55pm
gnarwhip wrote:
Dungey's new nickname is "Little kid on Christmas morning" because he's gotten more gifts this year than anyone. I'll bet anything he retires after the outdoors...
Dungey's new nickname is "Little kid on Christmas morning" because he's gotten more gifts this year than anyone. I'll bet anything he retires after the outdoors. He knows he lucked into this title, and he'll go out "on top".
Lucked into a title? No one lucks into a title. RC said it best "You make your own luck" and Ryan definitely did that with his Daytona ride.

IMO he could absolutely come back in 2018 and win a 5th SX title if he decides to do so. In terms of age and physical performance he's just now entering his peak years according to studies.

As for Roczen not sure what is going to happen with him. I know for a fact that not all the information he's been given has been posted. After all why would it. Having that many surgeries on his arm when it was originally said it would be 3 surgeries or so can't be a good thing. Personally I think he has nerve damage and that takes a really long time to get back to normal if ever. Not to mention the longer he's off the bike the more the others are catching up. He'll compete again but will it be at the same level he was? That remains to be seen.
Stoneface
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5/8/2017 10:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/8/2017 10:15pm
Anybody think Cooper Webb might factor in next year? Might not just be a Tomac, Musquin, Anderson battle.
seth505
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5/8/2017 10:17pm
gnarwhip wrote:
Dungey's new nickname is "Little kid on Christmas morning" because he's gotten more gifts this year than anyone. I'll bet anything he retires after the outdoors...
Dungey's new nickname is "Little kid on Christmas morning" because he's gotten more gifts this year than anyone. I'll bet anything he retires after the outdoors. He knows he lucked into this title, and he'll go out "on top".
Mr. Alternate Universe
Starcrossed
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5/8/2017 10:24pm
Tomac's new nickname is Thromac, because he's thrown it away so many times, and is likely to do it again before he wins multiple championships.
Tzevtkoff
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5/8/2017 10:55pm
I think Tomac is the fastest rider all time on a dirt bike or just behind RC.4.

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