Team orders

4/29/2017 7:22pm
Record books only show who won and not who pulled over. I am surprised that there wasn't a talk ahead of time for Marvin to push Dungey but don't pass. Marvin made the fumble obvious to prove a point that KTM owes him next year.
agn5009
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4/29/2017 7:24pm
gabrielito wrote:
Marvin is the one who pulled over. That is on him and his character. Hard to respect a racer who would do that.
F.B wrote:
You're right, he should have ignored the order and ruin his relationship with KTM.Dry
gabrielito wrote:
He's under contract, how could that ruin his relationship? Obviously he was in a bad spot, but does he race for himself or for KTM and...
He's under contract, how could that ruin his relationship? Obviously he was in a bad spot, but does he race for himself or for KTM and Dungey? Marv caved to pressure and sold himself.
Pathetic. Marvin and Dungey are very close friends.

What if you were in the same position with one of your good friends right behind you? Would you have let him by if it was for the championship and you were out of it? If not, I wouldn't want to be your friend.

I would have done the exact same thing for a good friend. This whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. Anyone who thinks that any other riders/teams wouldn't have done the same thing is completely naive and I'm a Persian Prince who wants to give them 10 million dollars if they just send me their bank account and social security number.
kaptkaos
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4/29/2017 7:25pm
gabrielito wrote:
Marvin is the one who pulled over. That is on him and his character. Hard to respect a racer who would do that.
F.B wrote:
You're right, he should have ignored the order and ruin his relationship with KTM.Dry
gabrielito wrote:
He's under contract, how could that ruin his relationship? Obviously he was in a bad spot, but does he race for himself or for KTM and...
He's under contract, how could that ruin his relationship? Obviously he was in a bad spot, but does he race for himself or for KTM and Dungey? Marv caved to pressure and sold himself.
Gabrielito, come on man, be realistic. How could you say "He's under contract, how could that ruin his relationship?"

A contract is just a piece of paper, Tell Davi Millsaps how good his contract was when Kawi released him. You are contracted by your team to perform and act to represent the brand under the direction of the team manager.

So if you show up at work and your boss tells you to move the garbage can your going to tell him thats not your job and refuse, and expect to maintain your relationship? Comeon man, think about what you just said.

Ask Albertson how good his contract was last year with his main sponsor. Contract are merely instruments to negotiate with and always have termination and out clauses for both parties.

On this planet, Earth in 2017, the people who write the checks have the final say and the ones who cash them must be subordinate to them.
ATKpilot99
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4/29/2017 7:29pm
agn5009 wrote:
Pathetic. Marvin and Dungey are very close friends. What if you were in the same position with one of your good friends right behind you? Would...
Pathetic. Marvin and Dungey are very close friends.

What if you were in the same position with one of your good friends right behind you? Would you have let him by if it was for the championship and you were out of it? If not, I wouldn't want to be your friend.

I would have done the exact same thing for a good friend. This whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. Anyone who thinks that any other riders/teams wouldn't have done the same thing is completely naive and I'm a Persian Prince who wants to give them 10 million dollars if they just send me their bank account and social security number.
Not only that , riders don't really have a choice. Remember when Bayle was told before a race that he may have to pull over and he said he wouldn't ? They put his bike in the hauler .

The Shop

4/29/2017 7:37pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2017 7:37pm
mxlegend99 wrote:
Is race fixing illegal like match fixing in other sports? Because KTM, Musquin and Dungey flat out screwed everyone with that. The fans were cheated out...
Is race fixing illegal like match fixing in other sports?

Because KTM, Musquin and Dungey flat out screwed everyone with that. The fans were cheated out of seeing a 6 point race next week. Tomac was cheated out of even having a small chance next week. They were robbed of seeing tge rider who deserved to win actually win.

That is cheating. Straight up. They were in a position to manipulate the results and did. It seems ridiculous to me that this could be an acceptable practice considering in another sport this shit is illegal and if found out can result in lifetime bans and jail time.

Reed copped shit for making Dungey finish a few seconds further behind Tomac then he would have. I hope tge same people who lost respect for him do the same for Dungey and Musquin. Reed had no effect in the points atleast.
I dunno what planet you've been living on, but team orders are as old as racing itself. What in hell did you *think* was gonna happen?

Does anyone remember Webb moving over for Jeremy Martin a couple years ago? (In Utah, I think, in real motocross, not this Mickey Mouse shit.) Tough shit for Musquin at the time. These are factory teams with corporate sponsors, and they are not fucking around.
4/29/2017 7:38pm
line-up wrote:
Nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is that Kawi didn't do the same with Grant. They might well regret that at Vegas. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/04/29/191486/s1200_s1200_IMG_4328.jpg[/img]
Nothing wrong with that.

What's wrong is that Kawi didn't do the same with Grant. They might well regret that at Vegas.



Bingo, dude. The Kawasaki people were out to lunch.
wfo4ever
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4/29/2017 7:46pm
Like Dungey said "It's just a dirt bike race".
wfo4ever
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4/29/2017 7:54pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Seriously ? He was doing what the team told him to do ... you know, his employers ? You could tell he was bothered by it...
Seriously ? He was doing what the team told him to do ... you know, his employers ? You could tell he was bothered by it on the podium .
Musquin was laughing on the podium because he was so upset over not winning the race.
4/30/2017 7:42am
Remember MM just signed a 2 yr contract extension and Pit B was at the race
hoots3pak
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4/30/2017 8:02am
Tyler36 wrote:
I wonder why Marvin would even make the pass on Dungey if he knew he was going to have to let him by on the last...
I wonder why Marvin would even make the pass on Dungey if he knew he was going to have to let him by on the last lap? Wouldn't it be easier and less obvious to not pass Dungey and just stay in 2nd place?
Great move. Obviously MM showed everyone he's taking the torch. He passed Dungey to show everyone he's the man. Once in front, He rode a pace not loose RD. He tried to let him by for a few laps and RD didn't get by so he got out of a rut and let him by.
This was going to happen no matter what. If RD made a pass that wasn't so obvious to the morons all of the press would be saying what a great race for RD. He got it back together and passed MM.
Dungey is near the end of his career. It's time people. MM could have left him. He rode a good pace Dungey could follow, only a big deal to the masses because the end was obvious.
William
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4/30/2017 9:47am
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it...
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it.

Here is my question... If it's not as big of a deal as people are saying, and that 'it's the norm in motorsports' then why try to make it look like a mistake?

Why not just pull over, put your hand on your hip and give Dungey a cheerful wave by and then on the podium say that you were doing it to help your teammate win a championship because that is what teammates do.

Why lie about making a mistake when everyone knows it wasn't one? I believe that is why people are upset, saying it was a mistake is just beyond disingenuous, its disrespectful to the fans. Just be honest with it, say you let your teammate by.
Absolutely spot on comment !
And it reveals the legitimacy of the idea that it is "just a part of racing and no big deal"
Of course it isnt okay and it isnt perceived as okay and it is not healthy for the sport.
That is EXACTLY why Marvin didnt admit to doing it intentionally in his interview..As you pointed out already.
TXDirt
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4/30/2017 9:51am
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it...
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it.

Here is my question... If it's not as big of a deal as people are saying, and that 'it's the norm in motorsports' then why try to make it look like a mistake?

Why not just pull over, put your hand on your hip and give Dungey a cheerful wave by and then on the podium say that you were doing it to help your teammate win a championship because that is what teammates do.

Why lie about making a mistake when everyone knows it wasn't one? I believe that is why people are upset, saying it was a mistake is just beyond disingenuous, its disrespectful to the fans. Just be honest with it, say you let your teammate by.
William wrote:
Absolutely spot on comment ! And it reveals the legitimacy of the idea that it is "just a part of racing and no big deal" Of...
Absolutely spot on comment !
And it reveals the legitimacy of the idea that it is "just a part of racing and no big deal"
Of course it isnt okay and it isnt perceived as okay and it is not healthy for the sport.
That is EXACTLY why Marvin didnt admit to doing it intentionally in his interview..As you pointed out already.
Sometimes we do things we don't like to do, but do them anyways. Ever had a meal you didn't like but told whoever made it that it tastes great?

Using your idea, you should have thrown the plate across the room and then punched the chef in the face.

It goes both ways.
Forty
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4/30/2017 9:52am
Marvin should have looked back, pointed out Dungey, and waved him on. This place would have burned down!

4/30/2017 9:55am
How many of you are pissed off at Cooper Webb, Johnny Omara, David Bailey, Bob Hannah twice, Broc Glover, the whole 05 Pro Circuit team and several others for doing the same thing?
OW38B
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4/30/2017 10:01am
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it...
I don't really care that marv pulled over, and I get why he did it.. but I also understand why some people are upset about it.

Here is my question... If it's not as big of a deal as people are saying, and that 'it's the norm in motorsports' then why try to make it look like a mistake?

Why not just pull over, put your hand on your hip and give Dungey a cheerful wave by and then on the podium say that you were doing it to help your teammate win a championship because that is what teammates do.

Why lie about making a mistake when everyone knows it wasn't one? I believe that is why people are upset, saying it was a mistake is just beyond disingenuous, its disrespectful to the fans. Just be honest with it, say you let your teammate by.
William wrote:
Absolutely spot on comment ! And it reveals the legitimacy of the idea that it is "just a part of racing and no big deal" Of...
Absolutely spot on comment !
And it reveals the legitimacy of the idea that it is "just a part of racing and no big deal"
Of course it isnt okay and it isnt perceived as okay and it is not healthy for the sport.
That is EXACTLY why Marvin didnt admit to doing it intentionally in his interview..As you pointed out already.
CYA for MM25.........

AMA Rulebook:
Appendix A:

General Offenses and Penalties
A2.2
c. Abetting or knowingly engaging in any race in which the result is “fixed” or prearranged.
MXisLIFE
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4/30/2017 10:03am
is a loss for Marvin individually but a win for the overall team. Surely the near win in Atlanta last year must taste worse than this...
is a loss for Marvin individually but a win for the overall team. Surely the near win in Atlanta last year must taste worse than this. Marvin is a great guy and hope he realizes it and he probably is the "next" guy to zoom on up and take a championship so I hope he doesnt let this sour him in any way.
And here i thought races and championships were individual results received based on individual performance!

Now you're saying this is a team based sport!

Mind = blown..

Next event I race locally I can purposely lose and yet still win!

Participation trophys and pictures with young hot models for everyone!

#winwithoutwinning
BobbyM
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4/30/2017 10:04am
mxlegend99 wrote:
Is race fixing illegal like match fixing in other sports? Because KTM, Musquin and Dungey flat out screwed everyone with that. The fans were cheated out...
Is race fixing illegal like match fixing in other sports?

Because KTM, Musquin and Dungey flat out screwed everyone with that. The fans were cheated out of seeing a 6 point race next week. Tomac was cheated out of even having a small chance next week. They were robbed of seeing tge rider who deserved to win actually win.

That is cheating. Straight up. They were in a position to manipulate the results and did. It seems ridiculous to me that this could be an acceptable practice considering in another sport this shit is illegal and if found out can result in lifetime bans and jail time.

Reed copped shit for making Dungey finish a few seconds further behind Tomac then he would have. I hope tge same people who lost respect for him do the same for Dungey and Musquin. Reed had no effect in the points atleast.
Fucking whiners in moto... You disgust me.
kaptkaos
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4/30/2017 10:05am
I think the mx crowd is way too liquored up after the races!
William
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4/30/2017 10:05am
Lester wrote:
A couple of points: 1) Anything can happen next week. This week proved that. 2) Talk about "team orders" is just deflection; Tomac choked all on...
A couple of points:

1) Anything can happen next week. This week proved that.

2) Talk about "team orders" is just deflection; Tomac choked all on his own and if he loses the title, has only that to blame.

3) Even if Dungey would have gotten second, he'd have the points lead and be sitting in the drivers seat going into the final.
If Tomac would have had a better night and finished, lets say 5th,..I wonder how people or the AMA would veiw Marvin blatantly stabbing the brakes in that corner while already at a snails pace ?
Just food for thought.
Katoomey
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4/30/2017 10:06am
mjr119 wrote:
This is the circus now, not a real competition.
circus might be too harsh, but if AMA is going to allow this, then you are right, it is not a competition, it is an exhibition.

Katoomey
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4/30/2017 10:21am
agn5009 wrote:
Pathetic. Marvin and Dungey are very close friends. What if you were in the same position with one of your good friends right behind you? Would...
Pathetic. Marvin and Dungey are very close friends.

What if you were in the same position with one of your good friends right behind you? Would you have let him by if it was for the championship and you were out of it? If not, I wouldn't want to be your friend.

I would have done the exact same thing for a good friend. This whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. Anyone who thinks that any other riders/teams wouldn't have done the same thing is completely naive and I'm a Persian Prince who wants to give them 10 million dollars if they just send me their bank account and social security number.
for a hundred grand I would have told Dungey to suck it. You don't fuck with another man's income. Not only would I not let my best friend by in that situation, I'd knock his ass on the ground if he tried to go by. Dungey's livelihood and career are his own, Marv doesn't owe him anything.

what you are saying is, you'd make sacrifices in your career to make your "good" buddies career better? I'm calling BS on that one.

the funny thing is, you act like your one of the gang...like you know how good of friends Marv and Ryan are. it's a institutional relationship. wouldn't be surprised if they ever talked to each other ever again once one of them leaves KTM. how many people have you worked with over the years that you we're friends with that you never talked to ever again after you left that job?
Monte122
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4/30/2017 10:35am
Any other Team or Team mate would have done the exact same thing if they were in that situation.

If you don't believe that, well... you don't know much about team sports.

It has been done many times before, and yes not only in other sports but also in sx and mx.

No one has been cheated out of anything. I'm a Tomac fan and feel bad for him, he just had a bad night, it happens.
Park Boys
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4/30/2017 10:40am
UpTiTe wrote:
How many of you are pissed off at Cooper Webb, Johnny Omara, David Bailey, Bob Hannah twice, Broc Glover, the whole 05 Pro Circuit team and...
How many of you are pissed off at Cooper Webb, Johnny Omara, David Bailey, Bob Hannah twice, Broc Glover, the whole 05 Pro Circuit team and several others for doing the same thing?
I like how everyone talks about the "Let Brock Bye" like it's the only time it has ever happened. Hannah crashed right before the finish line to let Bailey win. Dosent get any more obvious than that.
Tbteam
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4/30/2017 10:43am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2017 10:43am
What I really wanted, was for the new reporter girl to just say, 'So Marvin, you obviously moved over for Ryan. Who's idea was that?"
William
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4/30/2017 10:45am Edited Date/Time 4/30/2017 10:46am
Monte122 wrote:
Any other Team or Team mate would have done the exact same thing if they were in that situation. If you don't believe that, well... you...
Any other Team or Team mate would have done the exact same thing if they were in that situation.

If you don't believe that, well... you don't know much about team sports.

It has been done many times before, and yes not only in other sports but also in sx and mx.

No one has been cheated out of anything. I'm a Tomac fan and feel bad for him, he just had a bad night, it happens.
How would you feel if Tomac had recovered to finish 5th ? or 4th ? How would....Marvin entering that right hander very slow and then braking hard (no reason) and turning left so blatantly make you feel about things ?
Bineano
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4/30/2017 10:47am
Marv will have his time. In fact, Dungey (if he doesn't retire) may be pulling over himself next season for Marv's chance at a title. It sucks this happens in MX and SX, but it's nothing new.
One cool thing is Ryan and Eli have always raced with each other clean, no bs take outs.
It is unlikely MM's move yesterday plays a role in the Title, but... who knows?! Next week should be interesting to say the least :-)
Monte122
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4/30/2017 11:00am
Monte122 wrote:
Any other Team or Team mate would have done the exact same thing if they were in that situation. If you don't believe that, well... you...
Any other Team or Team mate would have done the exact same thing if they were in that situation.

If you don't believe that, well... you don't know much about team sports.

It has been done many times before, and yes not only in other sports but also in sx and mx.

No one has been cheated out of anything. I'm a Tomac fan and feel bad for him, he just had a bad night, it happens.
William wrote:
How would you feel if Tomac had recovered to finish 5th ? or 4th ? How would....Marvin entering that right hander very slow and then braking...
How would you feel if Tomac had recovered to finish 5th ? or 4th ? How would....Marvin entering that right hander very slow and then braking hard (no reason) and turning left so blatantly make you feel about things ?
Your comment is irrelevant, because that didn't happen. I'm just pointing out the fact that Team tactics have been used before.

To answer your question, I would feel the same way, good racing either way. Vegas is going to be good.
MXisLIFE
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4/30/2017 11:05am
Monte122 wrote:
Any other Team or Team mate would have done the exact same thing if they were in that situation. If you don't believe that, well... you...
Any other Team or Team mate would have done the exact same thing if they were in that situation.

If you don't believe that, well... you don't know much about team sports.

It has been done many times before, and yes not only in other sports but also in sx and mx.

No one has been cheated out of anything. I'm a Tomac fan and feel bad for him, he just had a bad night, it happens.
When does a sport based individual performance become a team sport?

4/30/2017 11:10am
MXisLIFE wrote:
When does a sport based individual performance become a team sport?

Two seconds after you sign with a factory team.

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