Lappers

txmxer
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9770
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Weatherford, TX, USA
2/9/2009 12:23pm
teggers wrote:
At least half of all my injuries have come from lappers. Dangerous part of racing and someone eventually is gonna get hurt for no reason. Making...
At least half of all my injuries have come from lappers. Dangerous part of racing and someone eventually is gonna get hurt for no reason. Making more rules might help, but I hate more rules on a subjective decision.

It almost needs to be handled privately....hehe.
we hit on this the other day talking about flagging, which is really my point.

There are some real safety issues that should probably be addressed. The flaggers on the track are very exposed and it seems like it's only a matter of time before a serious injury occurs.

andymoto
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Location
Carmichael, CA, USA
2/9/2009 12:23pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
I was amazed that the flaggers at the SF SX were from one of our local off road clubs. I had thought in my years on those floors holding a pitboard it was AMA officials.

One sat right next to me and I told him it must be fun to be a part of the show.

The man showed me the track map and the numbered locations each person would flag from. They seemed real serious about what they had to do and went on to do a relatively good job.

This problem has been going on like forever, but this is an internal matter; something that the sanctioning bodies, promoter, owner, current riders, teams need to address IMO.

There has to be some sort of "safety or rules" committee that meets each week to discuss the problems from each weeks race and throw out solution if need be.

If not, one should be created like right now and do the work on the show that needs to be done.

Ozzy
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Santa Clarita, CA, USA
2/9/2009 1:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
Not posting at all has crossed my mind
many times, as you can't win!
There's always black & white for sure.
The bashing, sure who needs that!
Yet, it seems it's always there!
Discussions, conversations, ideas,
why this, why that, etc. just the questioning
of it all, that's what I like.
Gotta ignore it..........
Dave O. Wink
LarryB
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Murrieta, CA, USA
2/9/2009 2:19pm
jt $ wrote:
I have been lapped many times over the years and I have definitely been in a position where if I slowed any, I would lose a...
I have been lapped many times over the years and I have definitely been in a position where if I slowed any, I would lose a spot. I do think that if I knew for certain that I wouldnt be passed while letting the leaders by, it would improve the situation. No one wants to impact the result of the race, we are just trying to race amongst ourselves. I dont think we can be faulted for racing for position when the leaders come by, but if that rule was placed into effect I think it would let us make more room for them.
What up JT! Right here, it's Jason Thomas and he says it best. He's a Professional Supercross/Motocross racer and if he knew he wouldn't be past while giving the leaders room, he would be the first to do it.

Thanks JT, this is exactly what needed to be said. Thank you.

The Shop

Trip
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USA
2/9/2009 2:32pm
Ok then so how does it work?? How many guys with blue flags are you going to have out there??? Where are they going to be located?? How soon do they throw the flag???


So two guys racing for 6th have to quit racing until after they are lapped?? Is that really the idea?? Not sure I wanna be racing on lap 20 with two turns to go and get the blue flag. I've been waiting to make my move and now that I am about to be lapped I can't make the pass on the last lap with two corners to go? Really?? Doesn't sound like racing to me at all.
WhKnuckle
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2/9/2009 4:42pm
LB's logic is simple, the rule is simple, it should help to solve the problem, and it doesn't inhibit the lappers from continuing to race. Simple - lappers can't pass if they're under the blue flag, no ifs ands or buts. After the leader passes, they can race until the second place rider comes up, then they hold position again until he passes. It's like the yellow, you can't pass.
Sondy132001
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Mission Viejo, CA, USA
2/9/2009 4:58pm
jt $ wrote:
I have been lapped many times over the years and I have definitely been in a position where if I slowed any, I would lose a...
I have been lapped many times over the years and I have definitely been in a position where if I slowed any, I would lose a spot. I do think that if I knew for certain that I wouldnt be passed while letting the leaders by, it would improve the situation. No one wants to impact the result of the race, we are just trying to race amongst ourselves. I dont think we can be faulted for racing for position when the leaders come by, but if that rule was placed into effect I think it would let us make more room for them.
they can't control passing under the yellow and that's an accident how are they going to control passing under the blue ??

S
FastEddy
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💀, FL, USA
2/9/2009 5:02pm Edited Date/Time 2/9/2009 5:03pm
Trip wrote:
Ok then so how does it work?? How many guys with blue flags are you going to have out there??? Where are they going to be...
Ok then so how does it work?? How many guys with blue flags are you going to have out there??? Where are they going to be located?? How soon do they throw the flag???


So two guys racing for 6th have to quit racing until after they are lapped?? Is that really the idea?? Not sure I wanna be racing on lap 20 with two turns to go and get the blue flag. I've been waiting to make my move and now that I am about to be lapped I can't make the pass on the last lap with two corners to go? Really?? Doesn't sound like racing to me at all.
You make a good point.

Seems to me lappers are part of the race/track , just as much as any jump,corner or whoop section is.The riders need to negotiate them just like any obstacle.They are part of the race.
Farva
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2/9/2009 5:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
jt $ wrote:
I have been lapped many times over the years and I have definitely been in a position where if I slowed any, I would lose a...
I have been lapped many times over the years and I have definitely been in a position where if I slowed any, I would lose a spot. I do think that if I knew for certain that I wouldnt be passed while letting the leaders by, it would improve the situation. No one wants to impact the result of the race, we are just trying to race amongst ourselves. I dont think we can be faulted for racing for position when the leaders come by, but if that rule was placed into effect I think it would let us make more room for them.
they can't control passing under the yellow and that's an accident how are they going to control passing under the blue ??

S
You are allowed to pass on a yellow flag in an AMA PRO race. (AM stuff is different) The yellow flag is a take caution flag but passing and jumping is still allowed.

Come on now you worked for the A.M.A and don’t know this?
Farva
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USA
2/9/2009 5:05pm
Trip wrote:
Ok then so how does it work?? How many guys with blue flags are you going to have out there??? Where are they going to be...
Ok then so how does it work?? How many guys with blue flags are you going to have out there??? Where are they going to be located?? How soon do they throw the flag???


So two guys racing for 6th have to quit racing until after they are lapped?? Is that really the idea?? Not sure I wanna be racing on lap 20 with two turns to go and get the blue flag. I've been waiting to make my move and now that I am about to be lapped I can't make the pass on the last lap with two corners to go? Really?? Doesn't sound like racing to me at all.
In the rule simply state on the last lap racing is allowed to continue under the blue flag.

Problem solved.
Sondy132001
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2/9/2009 5:07pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
jt $ wrote:
I have been lapped many times over the years and I have definitely been in a position where if I slowed any, I would lose a...
I have been lapped many times over the years and I have definitely been in a position where if I slowed any, I would lose a spot. I do think that if I knew for certain that I wouldnt be passed while letting the leaders by, it would improve the situation. No one wants to impact the result of the race, we are just trying to race amongst ourselves. I dont think we can be faulted for racing for position when the leaders come by, but if that rule was placed into effect I think it would let us make more room for them.
they can't control passing under the yellow and that's an accident how are they going to control passing under the blue ??

S
Farva wrote:
You are allowed to pass on a yellow flag in an AMA PRO race. (AM stuff is different) The yellow flag is a take caution flag...
You are allowed to pass on a yellow flag in an AMA PRO race. (AM stuff is different) The yellow flag is a take caution flag but passing and jumping is still allowed.

Come on now you worked for the A.M.A and don’t know this?
was I a flagger ? And when I did flag back in the 80's the yellow flag meant no passing or gaining position. And yes I know this I am just speaking in general.

S
Devil1nNj
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Hewitt, NJ, USA
2/9/2009 5:27pm
Wow, I didn't know you could pass on a Yellow in AMA Pro.
Learn something new everyday.

It looks like the discussion could go on forever, but since Jt$ showed up, I think he knows a little better than most posts on here. A simple penalty for blatant advancement while under the blue flag would raise awareness.

You know for certain that every team watching their rider will see if he was passed under blue flag. It could then be reviewed and a decision could be made if it was missed.

I don't think they should have to change their speed or line, but simply hold it for safety.
vet954
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USA
2/9/2009 5:29pm
It is embarasing that in this so called profesional sport that 50-75% of the field gets lapped.

Take the best practice lap time and do the math to eliminate those who are predetermined to be lapped.

If Stewart throws down a 59sec lap in practice then any rider with a lap time of 1:01.9 or worse is going to get lapped in a 20 lap race. Sure it will knock the gate down to 10 riders at most events but the reality is they should not be out there in the first place.

WhKnuckle
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2/9/2009 5:39pm
vet954 wrote:
It is embarasing that in this so called profesional sport that 50-75% of the field gets lapped. Take the best practice lap time and do the...
It is embarasing that in this so called profesional sport that 50-75% of the field gets lapped.

Take the best practice lap time and do the math to eliminate those who are predetermined to be lapped.

If Stewart throws down a 59sec lap in practice then any rider with a lap time of 1:01.9 or worse is going to get lapped in a 20 lap race. Sure it will knock the gate down to 10 riders at most events but the reality is they should not be out there in the first place.

Better yet, put the riders on bikes they can ride aggressively and cut the gap between the fastest guy (who can wring out a 450) and the slowest guy (who is more like most of us and can't wring out a 450 especially on a SX track). Make the max displacement 350 or 400 and let guys ride two strokes or four strokes, make the tracks longer. I know everyone hated the chicane at Houston, but it may not have been so bad if it hadn't been at the start, but generally, lap times under 50 seconds is going to lead to lapper issues. I know it's kind of silly to attack the displacement formula in terms of lappers, but I've been around the sport for a long time, and it's easy to see we've got about 8 or 10 guys in the 450 class that can really use a 450 and the rest are putting a heck of a lot of effort into staying alive. That's not a slam - almost nobody I know can ride a 450 on a SX track like it should be ridden.
Dogger
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Wake Forest, NC, USA
2/9/2009 5:51pm
I've also been a lapper and the one lapping and as a fan, i wouldn't want to see a great dual between Reed and JS being determined by lappers................Unless of course Reed is losing Unsure Smile
2/9/2009 7:26pm
Moto forums are all the same: the simple minded make character attacks and never ever develop the mental power to address the real issues. If one watches the races and sees the drastic maneuvers the top guys use to avoid injuring themselves and the lappers it might just be reasonable that Larry Brooks has a point.

When the lappers speed up for whatever reason (possibly they know the cameras will be on them when the leaders pass) they start to ride out of their comfort zone and that poses a liability to not only the rider being overtaken, but also the rider in good position.

The riders a lap or two down should respect those rules or have some mild penalty implemented. For all of you who will keep making character attacks on Larry Brooks, well he saw a problem and addressed it in a respectful manner meaning he sacked up and voiced his opinion, which is more than I can say for most of you when a real problem presents itself.
WhKnuckle
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2/9/2009 7:34pm
Moto forums are all the same: the simple minded make character attacks and never ever develop the mental power to address the real issues. If one...
Moto forums are all the same: the simple minded make character attacks and never ever develop the mental power to address the real issues. If one watches the races and sees the drastic maneuvers the top guys use to avoid injuring themselves and the lappers it might just be reasonable that Larry Brooks has a point.

When the lappers speed up for whatever reason (possibly they know the cameras will be on them when the leaders pass) they start to ride out of their comfort zone and that poses a liability to not only the rider being overtaken, but also the rider in good position.

The riders a lap or two down should respect those rules or have some mild penalty implemented. For all of you who will keep making character attacks on Larry Brooks, well he saw a problem and addressed it in a respectful manner meaning he sacked up and voiced his opinion, which is more than I can say for most of you when a real problem presents itself.
Trip is the only one who attacked LB, and all the old timers on here routinely ignore whatever Trip says. His latent homosexuality is driving him insane and it's not worth to the time to try to figure out what he's talking about.
andymoto
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Carmichael, CA, USA
2/9/2009 7:45pm
When was the last time a blue flag cost a victory in SX....even Lites?
2/9/2009 7:45pm
Moto forums are all the same: the simple minded make character attacks and never ever develop the mental power to address the real issues. If one...
Moto forums are all the same: the simple minded make character attacks and never ever develop the mental power to address the real issues. If one watches the races and sees the drastic maneuvers the top guys use to avoid injuring themselves and the lappers it might just be reasonable that Larry Brooks has a point.

When the lappers speed up for whatever reason (possibly they know the cameras will be on them when the leaders pass) they start to ride out of their comfort zone and that poses a liability to not only the rider being overtaken, but also the rider in good position.

The riders a lap or two down should respect those rules or have some mild penalty implemented. For all of you who will keep making character attacks on Larry Brooks, well he saw a problem and addressed it in a respectful manner meaning he sacked up and voiced his opinion, which is more than I can say for most of you when a real problem presents itself.
WhKnuckle wrote:
Trip is the only one who attacked LB, and all the old timers on here routinely ignore whatever Trip says. His latent homosexuality is driving him...
Trip is the only one who attacked LB, and all the old timers on here routinely ignore whatever Trip says. His latent homosexuality is driving him insane and it's not worth to the time to try to figure out what he's talking about.
Noted.
SIMX
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2/9/2009 8:15pm
I like this idea!
Farva
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2/9/2009 8:20pm Edited Date/Time 2/9/2009 8:21pm
they can't control passing under the yellow and that's an accident how are they going to control passing under the blue ??

S
Farva wrote:
You are allowed to pass on a yellow flag in an AMA PRO race. (AM stuff is different) The yellow flag is a take caution flag...
You are allowed to pass on a yellow flag in an AMA PRO race. (AM stuff is different) The yellow flag is a take caution flag but passing and jumping is still allowed.

Come on now you worked for the A.M.A and don’t know this?
was I a flagger ? And when I did flag back in the 80's the yellow flag meant no passing or gaining position. And yes I...
was I a flagger ? And when I did flag back in the 80's the yellow flag meant no passing or gaining position. And yes I know this I am just speaking in general.

S
I was just joking with you, if it came off as being rude or upsetting I did not mean for it to be so.
Farva
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2/9/2009 8:33pm
Devil1nNj wrote:
Wow, I didn't know you could pass on a Yellow in AMA Pro. Learn something new everyday. It looks like the discussion could go on forever...
Wow, I didn't know you could pass on a Yellow in AMA Pro.
Learn something new everyday.

It looks like the discussion could go on forever, but since Jt$ showed up, I think he knows a little better than most posts on here. A simple penalty for blatant advancement while under the blue flag would raise awareness.

You know for certain that every team watching their rider will see if he was passed under blue flag. It could then be reviewed and a decision could be made if it was missed.

I don't think they should have to change their speed or line, but simply hold it for safety.
You can even jump the tripples on a yellow.

They pretty much tell you if the yellows out you can still jump, just hope you have good luck.
Trip
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2/9/2009 8:38pm
Moto forums are all the same: the simple minded make character attacks and never ever develop the mental power to address the real issues. If one...
Moto forums are all the same: the simple minded make character attacks and never ever develop the mental power to address the real issues. If one watches the races and sees the drastic maneuvers the top guys use to avoid injuring themselves and the lappers it might just be reasonable that Larry Brooks has a point.

When the lappers speed up for whatever reason (possibly they know the cameras will be on them when the leaders pass) they start to ride out of their comfort zone and that poses a liability to not only the rider being overtaken, but also the rider in good position.

The riders a lap or two down should respect those rules or have some mild penalty implemented. For all of you who will keep making character attacks on Larry Brooks, well he saw a problem and addressed it in a respectful manner meaning he sacked up and voiced his opinion, which is more than I can say for most of you when a real problem presents itself.
WhKnuckle wrote:
Trip is the only one who attacked LB, and all the old timers on here routinely ignore whatever Trip says. His latent homosexuality is driving him...
Trip is the only one who attacked LB, and all the old timers on here routinely ignore whatever Trip says. His latent homosexuality is driving him insane and it's not worth to the time to try to figure out what he's talking about.
Attack?? Really? Hmm... Guess this placing is turning into vaginadrive. WhKnuckle, you say you've been around the sport a long time, but didn't seem to know that you can pass on the yellow. Guess you don't know as much as you think.

I wouldn't really call it an attack. Larry didn't seem to take it that way. Gibby, I'm sure is just looking for a reason to give me a time out, and so far hasn't. All I said was the only time Larry comes here is to cry about something. I said Larry is doing a good job, and part of his job is looking out for JBS. Yeah, don't say anything about that, just bring up that I out of nowhere attacked him. I still stand by my point of , the only reason he comes here is to whine about something. Did he ever come on here to defend himself over the Nate Ramsey dealio???

Why would you bring homosexuality up?? Is that supposed to be funny, degrading, both?? Seriously, what do you have against homosexuals??

teggers
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Winter Park, FL, USA
2/9/2009 8:50pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
There are some real safety issues that should probably be addressed. The flaggers on the track are very exposed and it seems like it's only a matter of time before a serious injury occurs.


Sooooo True.
oldx
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Camano Island, WA, USA
2/9/2009 8:54pm
Well LB you have your opinion and I have mine. I was racing when you were still shitting in your diaper.
This is really turning into a pussy sport. Why the hell don't they put passing lanes in the track and every lapper has to pull out in them.Harden the fuck up and let them race.
oldx
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Camano Island, WA, USA
2/9/2009 9:16pm
Hey better yet, let's just have James and Chad in the race by themselves. Fucking pussy's the lot of you.
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
2/9/2009 9:33pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:25pm
teggers wrote:
There are some real safety issues that should probably be addressed. The flaggers on the track are very exposed and it seems like it's only a...
There are some real safety issues that should probably be addressed. The flaggers on the track are very exposed and it seems like it's only a matter of time before a serious injury occurs.


Sooooo True.
I said it after Houston, everyone on the floor should be wearing helmets and the flaggers should have a protective barrier between them and oncoming traffic.


I guess a flagger will have to get killed in front of 50k people before something is done about it.
oldx
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Camano Island, WA, USA
2/9/2009 9:40pm
Oh shit this is just too funny.
2/9/2009 9:42pm
they can't control passing under the yellow and that's an accident how are they going to control passing under the blue ??

S
They cant and it will never happen. Lappers are part of racing ,they always have been and they always will be. I wish everyone would quit trying to take all the risk out of racing. Its dangerous! it always has been and it always will be. I cant speak for Brooks but I bet I would be more worried about a lapper costing James a race than making a risky sport safe cause it aint gonna happen.
CamP
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2/9/2009 10:24pm
Wasn't Canard's broken femur at Washougal the result of a collision with a lapper?

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