Matthes on Dungey/Reed Drama...

Jt$ wrote:

I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan...

I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan of our work!

FastEddy wrote:

Good podcast. Great insight. The build up explanation of others instigating and getting people fired up was good too. You guys that havent heard the podcast...

Good podcast.
Great insight.
The build up explanation of others instigating and getting people fired up was good too.

You guys that havent heard the podcast ,heres the link.
Its certainty worth a listen on this topic.
http://www.pulpmx.com/sites/default/files/podcasts/170403_thomas_weigan…

Wells423 wrote:

I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the...

I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the pipe down man. As far as JT$ saying RD should have just blasted Reed in the main? Yeah so that's where we're at? He was getting LAPPED! Why the hell should RD have to risk crashing breaking his bike or hurting himself because Reed is riding like a jerk? I figured neither of these two guys could be honest about this situation. Good on Jason W for not kissing ass though

Jt$ wrote:

Because he needed to get by and get by ASAP. What would RC have done?

Jt$ wrote:

I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan...

I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan of our work!

FastEddy wrote:

Good podcast. Great insight. The build up explanation of others instigating and getting people fired up was good too. You guys that havent heard the podcast...

Good podcast.
Great insight.
The build up explanation of others instigating and getting people fired up was good too.

You guys that havent heard the podcast ,heres the link.
Its certainty worth a listen on this topic.
http://www.pulpmx.com/sites/default/files/podcasts/170403_thomas_weigan…

bobojim wrote:

Listened a bit, but couldn't stand the dribble on this topic for more than a few minutes or so, so gave up. The show's claim of...

Listened a bit, but couldn't stand the dribble on this topic for more than a few minutes or so, so gave up.
The show's claim of impartiality took a big hit. Basically according to them it has is ok for Chad to be upset and frustrated at Ryan for racing incidents and act like an idiot, but not for Ryan to get frustrated and even just express how he sees it, let alone act like a child. Pretty poor.

Wells423 wrote:

I think you're missing my point. It was smarter for Dunge to salvage points doing what he did than risk hitting the deck messing with Reed...

I think you're missing my point. It was smarter for Dunge to salvage points doing what he did than risk hitting the deck messing with Reed. The bottom line is Reed was once again acting like a tit as we've seen so many times over his career. You actually think it if fair that someone should have to take out a lapper to pass them? Ridiculous! I would love to hear your reaction in that had been Vince or Barcia. You'd be calling for their heads. I get Chad is your friend and I'm usually a fan of yours and Steves input but there is no way to justify what Chad was doing out there.

Wells423 wrote:

I think you're missing my point. It was smarter for Dunge to salvage points doing what he did than risk hitting the deck messing with Reed...

I think you're missing my point. It was smarter for Dunge to salvage points doing what he did than risk hitting the deck messing with Reed. The bottom line is Reed was once again acting like a tit as we've seen so many times over his career. You actually think it if fair that someone should have to take out a lapper to pass them? Ridiculous! I would love to hear your reaction in that had been Vince or Barcia. You'd be calling for their heads. I get Chad is your friend and I'm usually a fan of yours and Steves input but there is no way to justify what Chad was doing out there.

rutcross wrote:

Salvage? Dungey scored no more and no less points than he would have if Reed hadn't log jammed him. You all think if Chad didnt hold...

Salvage? Dungey scored no more and no less points than he would have if Reed hadn't log jammed him.
You all think if Chad didnt hold Dunge up, dunge would have blew passed Eli, lapped up to 2nd and left st Louis with a 40 point lead. Jesus.

kkawboy14 wrote:

You forgot the week before where apparently Reed was blaming Dungey for cutting him off in the first turn of the Main and causing him to...

You forgot the week before where apparently Reed was blaming Dungey for cutting him off in the first turn of the Main and causing him to crash and get a bad road rash.........then on the start of the very next heat race Dungey.......

mx_563 wrote:

OK so: * Detroit Main = Dunge cuts off Reed in the first turn (which if memory serves, Dunge got a terrible start in Detroit so...

OK so:

* Detroit Main = Dunge cuts off Reed in the first turn (which if memory serves, Dunge got a terrible start in Detroit so he was probably mired in the chaos of the "mid-pack")

* St. Louis Heat = Dunge supposedly takes Reed wide off the start.

* St. Louis Post Heat Race Interview = Dunge says something about Reed suggesting he has it in for the KTM crew, possibly also using the word "immature" at some stage (?).

* St. Louis Main: Reed holds up Dunge for three laps while getting lapped

* Vital blows up.

Is that about right?

Wells423 wrote:

Yes getting 2nd place would be salvaging more points than a 6th or DNF from forcing the issue and tangling with Reed. I honestly don't believe...

Yes getting 2nd place would be salvaging more points than a 6th or DNF from forcing the issue and tangling with Reed. I honestly don't believe Dunge could have won the main but it dang sure wasn't Chad's place to be in the middle of a points battle. Do you actually read anything people post on here, or just show up to troll?

Jt$ wrote:

I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan...

I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan of our work!

coastlinecascot wrote:

Reed just lost a ton of fans he worked hard over the years to earn!!!

rutcross wrote:

You'd be surprised how little of fans he lost and how many he gained. There's life beyond the walls of vital. Don't forget that.

parks387 wrote:

Most spectators knew exactly what was going on in STL, I would say he lost a good number, at least from the Midwest. He ruined what...

Most spectators knew exactly what was going on in STL, I would say he lost a good number, at least from the Midwest. He ruined what should've been the best race of the year.

parks387 wrote:

Most spectators knew exactly what was going on in STL, I would say he lost a good number, at least from the Midwest. He ruined what...

Most spectators knew exactly what was going on in STL, I would say he lost a good number, at least from the Midwest. He ruined what should've been the best race of the year.

SoCalMX70 wrote:

I'd bet his autograph line is still the longest (and not with haters..).

jnickell wrote:

I'm still really confused as to why Dungey throwing the "immature" reference at Reed is grounds for the idiocy that Reed displayed. Now I can see...

I'm still really confused as to why Dungey throwing the "immature" reference at Reed is grounds for the idiocy that Reed displayed. Now I can see if Reed was actually racing for position and the guy he is frustrated with is trying to get around him. That's totally different.

The fact that Reed reacted the way he did only proved RD's comment to be very accurate and probably influenced his decision to not stuff him. If Reed reacted like this because he was called a stinky face poopy head, who knows what he would do if RD actually forced his way past Reed. To all you folks saying "that's what Dungey gets for poking the bear", well, the bear simply threw a hissy fit for something most wouldn't label as poking.

Sully22 wrote:

Kinda have to agree with this. And being an analytical person I tend to look at things from a numbers standpoint, but I also realize there...

Kinda have to agree with this. And being an analytical person I tend to look at things from a numbers standpoint, but I also realize there are plenty of other factors that can come into play during a race and change things... that, and numbers don't tell the whole story. I'm not defendning CR22's actions at all. That being said, ET passed RD for the lead on the first lap and gained a 3.4 second lead at the 15 minutes to go mark (a rate of pulling away .68 seconds per minute). Over the next 8 minutes, at the 7:00 minutes to go mark where RD caught up to lap CR, RD had gained a total of 1.5 seconds on ET, (a rate of gaining .1875 seconds per minute). If Reed would have pulled over and let RD by, and going on the average time RD was gaining he would not have caught ET by the finish, he would have been about .4 seconds behind at the finish.

Now that doesn't take into account how ET would have reacted to the pressure, if ET slowed down, or if he would have pushed and/or pulled away or crashed for that matter, or any other factors that might have played out. but purely from a numbers standpoint, it would not have happened. We'll never know if he would have caught and passed ET, it doesn't look like it, but it might have been interesting.

Time and Gap between ET and RD (Times taken from the TV at the end of each minute)

19:00 - .9
18 .9
17 1.9
16 2.4
15 3.4
14 3.3
13 3.0
12 2.6
11 2.6
10 2.2
9 1.7
8 1.8
7 1.9 (RD was on CR22 at exactly 7:00)
6 2.4
5 3.1 (RD passed CR22 @ 4:32 left in race)
4 5.7
3 6.7
2 9.3
1 9.1
0 8.4
7.3 at the finish

ACBraap wrote:

Sure, but that's not the point. RD might have gotten close enough to make Eli nervous and force a mistake. Eli might have had a minor...

Sure, but that's not the point. RD might have gotten close enough to make Eli nervous and force a mistake. Eli might have had a minor tip over, and RD might have been close enough to capitalize. If you get caught speeding, 'no one got hurt' doesn't get you out of it, the law was still broken, just as the penalty for jumping on a red cross fan gets handed out whether it leads to an injury or not. Whether Reed's disregard of blue flag rules changed the ultimate outcome of the race or not, it was blatant, intentional, and retaliatory*, and robbed the fans of seeing what might have been.

*like most, I have no problem with blatant, intentional, or retaliatory actions on the track, as long as they stay on the track, and occur while racing for position, as opposed to being lapped.

Sully22 wrote:

Huh, are you replying to a post I made in another thread where someone brought up rules competency/enforcement and I brought up speeding? That thread was...

Huh, are you replying to a post I made in another thread where someone brought up rules competency/enforcement and I brought up speeding? That thread was not talking about this incident but rules in general and how they're enforced subjectively. I clearly said In my post in this thread that numbers alone don't tell the whole story and I said we don't know how ET would have reacted to the pressure, or if he would have crashed or what might have happened...

SoCalMX70 wrote:

It's pretty damn simple really. What Reed did was WRONG. I am a Reed fan of some 15 odd years now and I am saying what...

It's pretty damn simple really. What Reed did was WRONG. I am a Reed fan of some 15 odd years now and I am saying what he did was wrong. Yup, wrong.

Dungey still made a stupid decision to say what he said on the podium after the heat. Does that make Reed's reaction any less wrong? Nope. Reed is still very much in the wrong.

However, Reed being wrong doesn't make Dungey smart, does it? He decided to say something negative about one of the most stubborn people in the sport who has a history of making himself heard loudly on and off the track. Why the F**K would Dungey, a guy who has A LOT to lose, continue to escalate a situation with Reed who as absolutely nothing to lose? It's asinine. Not to mention that the hard racing in the heat wasn't even something to complain about.

Again, Reed is in the wrong. His actions have no excuse. Doesn't change the extremely likely possibility that Reed would have done nothing if Dungey didn't whine about the heat.

Hell, I remember watching the interview after the heat and I turned to my lady (after saying something like "are you effing kidding me!" about Dungey's choice words) and said "Reed isn't going to let that slide..."

Does anyone here really think Reed gave two shits about the possible implications? Come on now...

StartedTooLate wrote:

And here is another one of these "REED IS WRONG" posts. You want to know who knows that better than anyone? Chad Reed. And he did...

And here is another one of these "REED IS WRONG" posts. You want to know who knows that better than anyone? Chad Reed. And he did it anyway. He is the same guy he always has been. If you are prepared to take your punishment, and to you personally, the satisfaction of the deed outweighs the consequences, then pull the trigger. Chad was, and Chad did, and you can bet he has zero regrets. He will carry it.

You want to know the one guy in the ghetto who never gets messed with? The crazy guy. Why? Because everyone knows if you mess with him, there is no telling what sort of crazy he will unleash on you. And when some idiot does mess the crazy guy, he gets NO SYMPATHY. What do people say? "Well...that's what you get when you mess with...." The rules of the street and the rules of society are really not that much different. They are all outgrowths of human nature.

SoCalMX70 wrote:

I think you need to re-read my post. I actually agree with what you are saying here, lol.. I am no less a Chad Reed fan...

I think you need to re-read my post. I actually agree with what you are saying here, lol..

I am no less a Chad Reed fan now than I have been for the last 15~ years. He's still the dude I cheer for.

All I'm saying is, by the RULES, he was wrong... but in the end Dungey is the one who wasn't smart about the whole thing. Reed loses a few points and $5k? LOL... Reed doesn't give a shit.

Edit: And I do realize my last post was a bit all over. Long day. In the end though I think we are on the same page here...

StartedTooLate wrote:

When you poke a bear, even an old one, nothing good comes of it. Reed is a big boy, and he knew damn well what we...

When you poke a bear, even an old one, nothing good comes of it. Reed is a big boy, and he knew damn well what we was doing. He knew it would create a storm, and he did it anyway. He is OK with it. If he gets a penalty..he will not complain. If he loses fans, frankly, he does not care at this stage in his career. You guys make these points about how Reed was "WRONG"....like that is news or he does not know it. LOL. Reed will never try to defend this as being right. If you are willing to do the time, or pay the penalty, do the crime. If you can carry it, that is your call. Those are the rules.

In the fable of the Frog and Scorpion, who is the fool?

Dungey should learn a lesson here. You are contending for a title, and there are 19 other riders, who can ruin it for you. Not by beating you, but by ruining your race. When you are a title contender, you have a different level of vulnerability. You can not get into needless feuds with other riders. If you have issues with them, you have to handle them outside the public spotlight.

Dungey called out Reed, and this is what he gets. He poked a bear that he did not have to poke.

This is the reason a rider like Barcia (or even Ando) can NEVER win a title, even if they had the speed. Too much baggage out in the open. To many riders will screw them when they have the chance to get back.

goinrcn44h wrote:

Most logical thing ive ever read here.
And, despite what others think, this is the exact truth.

SoCalMX70 wrote:

I'll +1 this as well. Dead on explanation really.

jnickell wrote:

I'm still really confused as to why Dungey throwing the "immature" reference at Reed is grounds for the idiocy that Reed displayed. Now I can see...

I'm still really confused as to why Dungey throwing the "immature" reference at Reed is grounds for the idiocy that Reed displayed. Now I can see if Reed was actually racing for position and the guy he is frustrated with is trying to get around him. That's totally different.

The fact that Reed reacted the way he did only proved RD's comment to be very accurate and probably influenced his decision to not stuff him. If Reed reacted like this because he was called a stinky face poopy head, who knows what he would do if RD actually forced his way past Reed. To all you folks saying "that's what Dungey gets for poking the bear", well, the bear simply threw a hissy fit for something most wouldn't label as poking.

ehr400 wrote:

So now on the Monday show, the bro show of Matthes and JT will barely act like anything happened, JT will completely defend him like the...

So now on the Monday show, the bro show of Matthes and JT will barely act like anything happened, JT will completely defend him like the yes man he is and Steve will maybe disagree a second then fall in line with the industry insiders. Now if this was Friese, Stew, or Barcia JT and Steve would shit all over them.

bd wrote:

This is an erroneous post