front brake technique question---

groggylbc
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groggylbc
Edited Date/Time 2/8/2017 4:52pm
when i roll off the throttle in choppy or rough stuff, grab the front brake, it feels like my hand wants to come off the bars. like my wrist is over rotating and i have no support, super scary. so I've been avoiding using the front brake in the chop. i noticed my throttle has a lot of play in it. may be i have to roll it on farther then usual, which means i have to roll it off farther and it puts my arm/wrist in a weird position.......
any tips or suggestions?
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Falcon
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Falcon 2/8/2017 5:22pm
2/8/2017 5:22pm
Run your lever a little higher, so that your grip rests in a natural position with a finger on the lever and with the throttle off.

Also, try using your middle finger to brake instead of your index; that will allow you to complete a circle with your thumb and forefinger around the grip (I think our own Gary Semics may be the 1st guy I ever heard say that one.)

Finally, imagine you are turning a door knob when turning the throttle... it's a twist of the wrist, not a movement of your forearm. You can keep your elbows and wrists in the same position at any throttle opening that way.

Practice makes perfect!

wsc96
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wsc96 2/8/2017 5:45pm
2/8/2017 5:45pm
I agree with the above, check your ergonomics.

You may be able to adjust the distance the front brake lever is from the grip too. Maybe try going a little easier on the straight-from-rolling-off the throttle to the front brake, get hard on the rears straight away but and then apply the front as necessary once the bike has settled slightly.
kmp1219
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kmp1219 2/8/2017 6:00pm
2/8/2017 6:00pm
Using your middle finger as the 2nd poster mentioned will make a world of difference.
Braap19
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Braap19 2/8/2017 6:48pm
2/8/2017 6:48pm
Another thing worth checking is the free play in the throttle cable.

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groggylbc
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groggylbc 2/8/2017 8:27pm
2/8/2017 8:27pm
my lever is pretty neutral.... but there is some extra play in the throttle. i am going to start using my middle finger on the break. thanks
motomojo
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motomojo 2/8/2017 8:44pm
2/8/2017 8:44pm
First thing get rid of any free play in the throttle.
If your wrist feels like it wants to roll over you are gripping wrong.
Don't grip the bars straight on think of the grips as a tennis racket and grip the bars like that it will automatically put your elbows up in the proper position and will not let them droop and will give your wrist much stronger leverage when going for the front brake or clutch in chop and everywhere else.
kzizok
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kzizok 2/8/2017 8:57pm
2/8/2017 8:57pm
Front brake usage is both an art and skill. So, give yourself time to make adjustments and trial and error. I remember going from an '85 YZ 80 (drum) to an '86 yz 80 (disc) and went over the bars promptly (and my dad warned me ahead of time). I learned really quick to respect it. Getting proficient with a front brake, to me, is one of the most underrated bike skills to work on. It can make a huge performance difference without additional cash outlay (I know, some will say, "but if you buy this rotor, etc. it can be better", but mastering stock is a good goal). Getting better at slowing down yields getting better at going faster.

Additionally, there are other things you can do too, like dragging in ruts to help quell the front wheel from wanting to "crawl" out. Get the set up correct and practice. It can be a very beneficial tool.
PFitzG38
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PFitzG38 2/8/2017 9:04pm
2/8/2017 9:04pm
I think that's a strength issue. I get that after I havn't ridden for a while. sometimes my hand will come off the bars, or I'll "buckle" my wrist. It gets your attention huh?
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/8/2017 11:35pm
2/8/2017 11:35pm
My guess is you shouldn't be front braking in the choppy stuff!
philG
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philG 2/9/2017 3:15am
2/9/2017 3:15am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2017 5:29am
motomojo wrote:
First thing get rid of any free play in the throttle. If your wrist feels like it wants to roll over you are gripping wrong. Don't...
First thing get rid of any free play in the throttle.
If your wrist feels like it wants to roll over you are gripping wrong.
Don't grip the bars straight on think of the grips as a tennis racket and grip the bars like that it will automatically put your elbows up in the proper position and will not let them droop and will give your wrist much stronger leverage when going for the front brake or clutch in chop and everywhere else.
No free play ???

I think not.

Remove excessive play, yes , but there has to be some, on both locks.
mmain62
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mmain62 2/9/2017 4:18am
2/9/2017 4:18am
I also agree with the middle finger technique.
mx836
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mx836 2/9/2017 4:56am
2/9/2017 4:56am
Move your perch so your index finger lines up with the bend in the lever. So many people have it jammed up against the grip and are trying to grab inside the bend on the lever where there is nothing to grab and no leverage. Take out some of the throttle free play, but not all. And adjust your lever closer to the bars.
philG
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philG 2/9/2017 5:32am
2/9/2017 5:32am
mx836 wrote:
Move your perch so your index finger lines up with the bend in the lever. So many people have it jammed up against the grip and...
Move your perch so your index finger lines up with the bend in the lever. So many people have it jammed up against the grip and are trying to grab inside the bend on the lever where there is nothing to grab and no leverage. Take out some of the throttle free play, but not all. And adjust your lever closer to the bars.
Agreed, too many people have the brake set so far out , you can barely get your fingers round it properly before you are locking the wheel.

On the SM bike I set the lever so that when I use index and middle finger on the lever, it comes back and touches the 3rd finger on the grip. SO much more feel and control.
JB 19
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JB 19 2/9/2017 5:47am
2/9/2017 5:47am
philG wrote:
Agreed, too many people have the brake set so far out , you can barely get your fingers round it properly before you are locking the...
Agreed, too many people have the brake set so far out , you can barely get your fingers round it properly before you are locking the wheel.

On the SM bike I set the lever so that when I use index and middle finger on the lever, it comes back and touches the 3rd finger on the grip. SO much more feel and control.
This makes a huge difference.
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/9/2017 6:05am
2/9/2017 6:05am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2017 6:06am
Having the brake touch your finger is way to much. Your ability to fully engage the brake with it that close goes way up, having it out more is better for a light touch, not getting a hole rubbed in your 3rd finger and not braking a finger if you fall, IMO

I'm still not sure why anyone would be front braking in chop, powering thru chop seems better and rear braking in it.
philG
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philG 2/9/2017 7:13am
2/9/2017 7:13am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2017 7:14am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Having the brake touch your finger is way to much. Your ability to fully engage the brake with it that close goes way up, having it...
Having the brake touch your finger is way to much. Your ability to fully engage the brake with it that close goes way up, having it out more is better for a light touch, not getting a hole rubbed in your 3rd finger and not braking a finger if you fall, IMO

I'm still not sure why anyone would be front braking in chop, powering thru chop seems better and rear braking in it.
That is fully engaged, on an SM bike, you are on it all the time, and you carry it way deep into the corner too, The 3rd finger is a gauge, like a knee slider , it isn't tight to the bar but you know where it is

Also we are on 320mm discs, with proper 4 piston calipers that will stop on a dime, and that is the brake you have to use on the off road on slicks too , for that I use 1 finger , and use the middle finger as a guage.

If you fall, we run full bark buster hand guards, its a non issue.

On the training days I have done, I have found guys 2 seconds a lap, just by moving the position of the bite point of the brake.

Also having to stretch for the lever makes arm pump a lot worse
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/9/2017 8:16am
2/9/2017 8:16am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Having the brake touch your finger is way to much. Your ability to fully engage the brake with it that close goes way up, having it...
Having the brake touch your finger is way to much. Your ability to fully engage the brake with it that close goes way up, having it out more is better for a light touch, not getting a hole rubbed in your 3rd finger and not braking a finger if you fall, IMO

I'm still not sure why anyone would be front braking in chop, powering thru chop seems better and rear braking in it.
philG wrote:
That is fully engaged, on an SM bike, you are on it all the time, and you carry it way deep into the corner too, The...
That is fully engaged, on an SM bike, you are on it all the time, and you carry it way deep into the corner too, The 3rd finger is a gauge, like a knee slider , it isn't tight to the bar but you know where it is

Also we are on 320mm discs, with proper 4 piston calipers that will stop on a dime, and that is the brake you have to use on the off road on slicks too , for that I use 1 finger , and use the middle finger as a guage.

If you fall, we run full bark buster hand guards, its a non issue.

On the training days I have done, I have found guys 2 seconds a lap, just by moving the position of the bite point of the brake.

Also having to stretch for the lever makes arm pump a lot worse
Sounds logical but I have never run barkbusters myself.

Don't you guys think this guy asking the question should be doing more braking by downshifting and powering thru some of this stuff?

Most of the guys I see having the kind of arm problems he's talking about are going to fast into a corner/chop sitting down, in the worst line possible and slamming on the front brakes in some kind of panic mode, instead of having a good flow.
RCMXracing
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RCMXracing 2/9/2017 10:55am
2/9/2017 10:55am
Disagree with middle finger usage other than in hostile traffic situations. Seriously tho, the strength in your hand is greater on the outside then decreases towards the index finger. Learned this from a hand surgeon. Completely agree with the tennis racket, door knob analogy of gripping. By using index finger to grip this tends to rotate the hand counter to what a tennis grip would be. But if it works for you great!

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groggylbc
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groggylbc 2/9/2017 10:58am
2/9/2017 10:58am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Having the brake touch your finger is way to much. Your ability to fully engage the brake with it that close goes way up, having it...
Having the brake touch your finger is way to much. Your ability to fully engage the brake with it that close goes way up, having it out more is better for a light touch, not getting a hole rubbed in your 3rd finger and not braking a finger if you fall, IMO

I'm still not sure why anyone would be front braking in chop, powering thru chop seems better and rear braking in it.
philG wrote:
That is fully engaged, on an SM bike, you are on it all the time, and you carry it way deep into the corner too, The...
That is fully engaged, on an SM bike, you are on it all the time, and you carry it way deep into the corner too, The 3rd finger is a gauge, like a knee slider , it isn't tight to the bar but you know where it is

Also we are on 320mm discs, with proper 4 piston calipers that will stop on a dime, and that is the brake you have to use on the off road on slicks too , for that I use 1 finger , and use the middle finger as a guage.

If you fall, we run full bark buster hand guards, its a non issue.

On the training days I have done, I have found guys 2 seconds a lap, just by moving the position of the bite point of the brake.

Also having to stretch for the lever makes arm pump a lot worse
kkawboy14 wrote:
Sounds logical but I have never run barkbusters myself. Don't you guys think this guy asking the question should be doing more braking by downshifting and...
Sounds logical but I have never run barkbusters myself.

Don't you guys think this guy asking the question should be doing more braking by downshifting and powering thru some of this stuff?

Most of the guys I see having the kind of arm problems he's talking about are going to fast into a corner/chop sitting down, in the worst line possible and slamming on the front brakes in some kind of panic mode, instead of having a good flow.
It actually happens when I'm standing. I've been racing a long time, and this is a new thing.
JBlain619
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JBlain619 2/9/2017 11:18am
2/9/2017 11:18am
RCMXracing wrote:
Disagree with middle finger usage other than in hostile traffic situations. Seriously tho, the strength in your hand is greater on the outside then decreases towards...
Disagree with middle finger usage other than in hostile traffic situations. Seriously tho, the strength in your hand is greater on the outside then decreases towards the index finger. Learned this from a hand surgeon. Completely agree with the tennis racket, door knob analogy of gripping. By using index finger to grip this tends to rotate the hand counter to what a tennis grip would be. But if it works for you great!
I'm glad I read all the responses first. This is exactly what I was going to say. Also above, there was mention of your lever reach. Since your issue is when you are standing, loosen the clamp just enough so you can move it with one hand and get on the bike on a stand and get in what your braking position would be. Find what reach is comfortable and tighten the clamp. I'm super anal about my lever position so I use a Level app on my iPhone and set my lever at 17 degrees. Also like above, adjust your lever reach so when you pull in, the brakes are fully on just before it hits your knuckles. A lot of trial and error to get the right setting for you. Just remember, regardless of what any of us say, it has to "feel right" for you! Good luck!
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 2/9/2017 11:30am
2/9/2017 11:30am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2017 11:45am
philG wrote:
That is fully engaged, on an SM bike, you are on it all the time, and you carry it way deep into the corner too, The...
That is fully engaged, on an SM bike, you are on it all the time, and you carry it way deep into the corner too, The 3rd finger is a gauge, like a knee slider , it isn't tight to the bar but you know where it is

Also we are on 320mm discs, with proper 4 piston calipers that will stop on a dime, and that is the brake you have to use on the off road on slicks too , for that I use 1 finger , and use the middle finger as a guage.

If you fall, we run full bark buster hand guards, its a non issue.

On the training days I have done, I have found guys 2 seconds a lap, just by moving the position of the bite point of the brake.

Also having to stretch for the lever makes arm pump a lot worse
kkawboy14 wrote:
Sounds logical but I have never run barkbusters myself. Don't you guys think this guy asking the question should be doing more braking by downshifting and...
Sounds logical but I have never run barkbusters myself.

Don't you guys think this guy asking the question should be doing more braking by downshifting and powering thru some of this stuff?

Most of the guys I see having the kind of arm problems he's talking about are going to fast into a corner/chop sitting down, in the worst line possible and slamming on the front brakes in some kind of panic mode, instead of having a good flow.
groggylbc wrote:
It actually happens when I'm standing. I've been racing a long time, and this is a new thing.
Cool, I don't really know you so I had to guess.
If you have been riding racing for a long time and this just started happening, it doesn't make sense to me that it would be your lever position. Maybe you are hitting the stuff faster than you have ever hit this stuff before? In either case there is a lot of credit to changing your riding style and how you hit those lines coming into a turn as you continue to go faster and faster (I'm assuming you are setting up for the turn since you are braking)

Plus I'm saying some of this stuff because it's not just you reading this thread other newer guys may be having similar problems.
Adam43
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Adam43 2/9/2017 11:37am
2/9/2017 11:37am
Get most of the play out and put the perch in a neutral setting.

Go out in a flat field and get used to hammering on the front brake, dragging it slightly while leaning, try different release points going into your turn.

Explore its capabilities so that you're not caught off guard on track.
kzizok
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kzizok 2/9/2017 11:51am
2/9/2017 11:51am
groggylbc wrote:
It actually happens when I'm standing. I've been racing a long time, and this is a new thing.
I misjudged your experience so my intial post may have seemed a little presumptuous. I apologize.
philG
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philG 2/9/2017 11:55am
2/9/2017 11:55am
Adam43 wrote:
Get most of the play out and put the perch in a neutral setting. Go out in a flat field and get used to hammering on...
Get most of the play out and put the perch in a neutral setting.

Go out in a flat field and get used to hammering on the front brake, dragging it slightly while leaning, try different release points going into your turn.

Explore its capabilities so that you're not caught off guard on track.
Great advice,
Like i said with the SM bikes, braking is everything, Bark busters are compulsory, so you cant snag a lever , either on the trackside, or another rider.

As for MX technique, in the chop , into turns i am usually very light on the front brake, dragging the rear , but on the throttle and dragging the clutch, stops the rear hopping all over, fair to say im not as good as as i used to be, but it still works , keeping the weight off the front helps no end.

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