100% tafiff on Euro Dirt Bikes is insane

mxandy963
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1/19/2017 11:18pm
^^^You absolutely define crazy loon. Go take a nap and eat some pizza. Might wanna grab a few zanny bars also. With all due respect brah.
Skerby
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1/20/2017 7:05am Edited Date/Time 1/20/2017 7:05am
Bye Bye KTM/Husky.

Im definitely gonna pick up a late model pumpkin before this legislation passes, think what it'll be worth when the msrp of a new SXF hits 20k!
tprice07
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1/20/2017 7:53am
Pretty sure there will be more "tafiffs" (tariffs) in the coming months/years based on the way newly elected administration has been talking.

Could be good news for American manufacturing workforce but...unless the USA starts manufacturing bikes...idk if it will matter.
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GrapeApe
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1/20/2017 8:02am
Vitards are something else. Who blew Steve Matthes gets 900 + replies and Euro motorcycles price rising by 100 %
Nobody cares about ?
This is a negotiation tactic, and in its infancy. It's not going to happen. Calm down, and damn you for creating a really sick visual in my mind.

The Shop

rcannon
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1/20/2017 8:27am
Not that the tariff is awesome, but when they did something similar, in the 80's, the percentage was based on the manufacturers cost, not the retail price.

Its likely the $10,000 KTM would only end up being 17,000, or so, and you just saved 3000.00 dollars.

APLMAN99
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1/20/2017 9:27am
Vitards are something else. Who blew Steve Matthes gets 900 + replies and Euro motorcycles price rising by 100 %
Nobody cares about ?
Replying to this thread isn't taking action, it's simply something that you are concerned with because of your own attention issues.

Those of us who have actually contacted our representatives don't necessarily have to feed your attention addiction.....
colorado2day
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1/20/2017 10:13am
Alpman, it aint about me

9grains
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1/20/2017 10:29am
Why does the OP say you'd pay twice the price for a KTM when they just want to double the tariff? Seems to me like it...
Why does the OP say you'd pay twice the price for a KTM when they just want to double the tariff? Seems to me like it might add a few hundred dollars to the price, not thousands.
Colo moto wrote:
Because the proposed tarriff is for up to 100%. That means a $10,000 european bike will cost $20,000 if this shit passes. Take 2 minutes amd...
Because the proposed tarriff is for up to 100%. That means a $10,000 european bike will cost $20,000 if this shit passes.

Take 2 minutes amd fill out the ama form oposing the tax.

https://cqrcengage.com/amacycle/app/write-a-letter?2&engagementId=27701…
I am not for the tariff but your math is flawed.

The full retail price of the bike is not the tariff amount. You're assuming the retail price will double when it's only the tariff that may double. So, whatever percentage the tariff represents within the retail price will double. If the tariff is $2,000 (I'm making this up), then the retail price on the bike will be $12K, not $20K.

That is of course, if the market will bear that price. Otherwise market pricing stays relatively flat and the tariff erodes profits.
APLMAN99
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1/20/2017 1:24pm
Why does the OP say you'd pay twice the price for a KTM when they just want to double the tariff? Seems to me like it...
Why does the OP say you'd pay twice the price for a KTM when they just want to double the tariff? Seems to me like it might add a few hundred dollars to the price, not thousands.
Colo moto wrote:
Because the proposed tarriff is for up to 100%. That means a $10,000 european bike will cost $20,000 if this shit passes. Take 2 minutes amd...
Because the proposed tarriff is for up to 100%. That means a $10,000 european bike will cost $20,000 if this shit passes.

Take 2 minutes amd fill out the ama form oposing the tax.

https://cqrcengage.com/amacycle/app/write-a-letter?2&engagementId=27701…
9grains wrote:
I am not for the tariff but your math is flawed. The full retail price of the bike is not the tariff amount. You're assuming the...
I am not for the tariff but your math is flawed.

The full retail price of the bike is not the tariff amount. You're assuming the retail price will double when it's only the tariff that may double. So, whatever percentage the tariff represents within the retail price will double. If the tariff is $2,000 (I'm making this up), then the retail price on the bike will be $12K, not $20K.

That is of course, if the market will bear that price. Otherwise market pricing stays relatively flat and the tariff erodes profits.
It isn't a doubling of an existing tariff.

It's potentially a 100% (maybe more, maybe less) tariff on the "value" of the import. Whether that is on the amount that the dealer pays for the bike or not isn't explained in any of the releases thus far, but I'm sure that there are some folks around that import items with tariffs who can probably speak to what they see tariffs being based on.
peelout
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1/20/2017 1:27pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2017 1:28pm
100% tafiff on Eufo Dift Bikes?

that's cfazy bfo
ob
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1/20/2017 1:42pm
Sure, and Mexico is going to pay for a wall.
colorado2day
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1/20/2017 2:26pm
Spin 100% however you want. If the Tariff is enacted and the European's want to sell motorcycles in the US they will have to assemble them in the US. Not the end of the world Evil

yahoo.com/news/100-tariff-european-bikes
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ob
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1/20/2017 2:36pm
I wish they would build them here. We really need the manufacturing to come back to the US. Shit if KTMs were built in the US why wouldn't all US riders want to own one? Except maybe because they don't like wood screws holding their plastics together.
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Ted722
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1/20/2017 2:47pm


TM - "Hello, Trade Office this is TM"
Trade Office - "KTM?"
TM - "No TM! Gonna make you an offer you can't refuse"
colorado2day
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1/20/2017 2:52pm
ob wrote:
I wish they would build them here. We really need the manufacturing to come back to the US. Shit if KTMs were built in the US...
I wish they would build them here. We really need the manufacturing to come back to the US. Shit if KTMs were built in the US why wouldn't all US riders want to own one? Except maybe because they don't like wood screws holding their plastics together.
Does anyone know if the Build Your Own Beta (byob) program bikes are done in the US ?

If the euros could ship containers of parts instead of crates of motorcycles could be a win win in the long run ?

Source axles and nuts and bolts in the US ? That arent made in China!
F.B
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1/20/2017 3:11pm
So...Who blew Matthes ?
Tokyo_Tiddler
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1/20/2017 3:34pm
We don't import European meat so USTR had to find something else. International bilateral trade can be dirty business with countries often trying to screw each other, so tariffs, and an extreme case.. a super 301, is the only recourse. I would have thought they would go after cars before motorcycles, though. Europe is probably trying to protect its meat lobby and the USTR's goal is to help its own meat lobby and create pain in another important EU industry so that they complain and get their government to lift the meat restrictions and then USTR will remove the tariffs on the motorcycles.

Manufacturers often ship parts and ingredients for final assembly/ production in another country to avoid or reduce import tariffs in that country. Many industries do this.

I would hate to see KTM get hurt as they worked hard to give customers what they want and they are offering some interesting products.
ob
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1/20/2017 3:44pm
I'm not sure if Mercedes still does this or not, but they imported sprinter vans without motors and then had the motors installed in the US to avoid import fees. Of course that caused lots of issues with the vans.
OldYZRider1
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1/20/2017 4:24pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2017 4:40pm
Back before NAFTA, US manufacturers were having products built in Mexico and shipped partially assembled into the US for workers here the to do the final assembly. These mexican plants were called maquiladoras and they were usually located just south of the US border. US companies did not have to pay duties on what were only partially assembled products and could take advantage of the lower Mexican wages. They could still put Made in America stickers on the products though as the final assembly was done by US workers.

Of course US workers weren't happy about it because fewer jobs were needed here. KTM could do something similar here but it may lead to unpopular workforce reductions in KTM's home plants. As others have said fair trade is often a very difficult thing.
oldblood
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1/20/2017 7:07pm
Honestly, would it be that terrible if Huskvarna opened a factory here in the states? Or partnered with Pro $$$$$ to assemble and fine tune to customers needs. Note I spelled Husqvarna that way because they're not totally made there anymore anyway.
colorado2day
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1/20/2017 7:35pm
oldblood wrote:
Honestly, would it be that terrible if Huskvarna opened a factory here in the states? Or partnered with Pro $$$$$ to assemble and fine tune to...
Honestly, would it be that terrible if Huskvarna opened a factory here in the states? Or partnered with Pro $$$$$ to assemble and fine tune to customers needs. Note I spelled Husqvarna that way because they're not totally made there anymore anyway.
That my friend, could work in all the euro manufacturers favor ?

It would be a logistics nightmare to start, but once you got the logistics sorted and hired some good people.....it is not rocket science assembling the peices.





colorado2day
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1/20/2017 7:57pm
oldblood wrote:
Honestly, would it be that terrible if Huskvarna opened a factory here in the states? Or partnered with Pro $$$$$ to assemble and fine tune to...
Honestly, would it be that terrible if Huskvarna opened a factory here in the states? Or partnered with Pro $$$$$ to assemble and fine tune to customers needs. Note I spelled Husqvarna that way because they're not totally made there anymore anyway.
That my friend, could work in all the euro manufacturers favor ?

It would be a logistics nightmare to start, but once you got the logistics sorted and hired some good people.....it is not rocket science assembling the peices.





APLMAN99
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1/20/2017 8:13pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2017 8:20pm
I'd bet that if the tariff were enacted, there'd be "safeguards" in place to address any loopholes like that.

Honda had facilities and employees in the States during the tariff in the 80s. The Marysville OH plant was already assembling motorcycles in 1979. If just sending parts in could've circumvented tariffs, then all the over 700cc bikes and would have been assembled there and not been affected by the tariff.

That would have been a lot easier for Honda, if it would have been applicable.

I think it's hard to say what sort of definition the folks who decide whether a tariff applies would use.
oldblood
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1/20/2017 8:28pm Edited Date/Time 1/20/2017 8:53pm
Hopefully the taffifs don't become a tiffy twister
colorado2day
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1/20/2017 9:05pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I'd bet that if the tariff were enacted, there'd be "safeguards" in place to address any loopholes like that. Honda had facilities and employees in the...
I'd bet that if the tariff were enacted, there'd be "safeguards" in place to address any loopholes like that.

Honda had facilities and employees in the States during the tariff in the 80s. The Marysville OH plant was already assembling motorcycles in 1979. If just sending parts in could've circumvented tariffs, then all the over 700cc bikes and would have been assembled there and not been affected by the tariff.

That would have been a lot easier for Honda, if it would have been applicable.

I think it's hard to say what sort of definition the folks who decide whether a tariff applies would use.
Alpman,
You are so good at putting a positive spin on things. What color is the sky ?
APLMAN99
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1/20/2017 9:12pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I'd bet that if the tariff were enacted, there'd be "safeguards" in place to address any loopholes like that. Honda had facilities and employees in the...
I'd bet that if the tariff were enacted, there'd be "safeguards" in place to address any loopholes like that.

Honda had facilities and employees in the States during the tariff in the 80s. The Marysville OH plant was already assembling motorcycles in 1979. If just sending parts in could've circumvented tariffs, then all the over 700cc bikes and would have been assembled there and not been affected by the tariff.

That would have been a lot easier for Honda, if it would have been applicable.

I think it's hard to say what sort of definition the folks who decide whether a tariff applies would use.
Alpman,
You are so good at putting a positive spin on things. What color is the sky ?
And you're a proven lying piece of shit.

It's dark here.

Here's why I think it's not quite as easy as it sounds.

---------------------------------------

Doctrine of Entireties Law and Legal Definition

Doctrine of Entireties as used in Customs law says that when an entry consists of parts which can be assembled to form an article that is different from any of the parts, the proper classification will be of the whole article, rather than the individual components.

----------------------------------------

It looks like a couple of cases have ruled that this "entry" doesn't have to be one single shipment, but it's hard to figure out where the line is.

If this makes you butthurt, so be it.
colorado2day
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1/20/2017 9:18pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
And you're a proven lying piece of shit. It's dark here. Here's why I think it's not quite as easy as it sounds. --------------------------------------- Doctrine of...
And you're a proven lying piece of shit.

It's dark here.

Here's why I think it's not quite as easy as it sounds.

---------------------------------------

Doctrine of Entireties Law and Legal Definition

Doctrine of Entireties as used in Customs law says that when an entry consists of parts which can be assembled to form an article that is different from any of the parts, the proper classification will be of the whole article, rather than the individual components.

----------------------------------------

It looks like a couple of cases have ruled that this "entry" doesn't have to be one single shipment, but it's hard to figure out where the line is.

If this makes you butthurt, so be it.
Yes I am butt hurt on that. Sucks for the Euros if that is the case.
oldblood
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1/20/2017 9:22pm
Well then there's nothing left to do but set ourselves on fire.

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